Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #841 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 841 Monday, 21 May 2001 Today's Topics: NEWS: California Guitar Trio Update GIG BIZ KC Tickets on sale NOW!!! Easy Money Tool/Crimso Who's opening for whom? Re: Kudasai KCan OPENER Re; Pesci/Fripp Re: KC, Tool, Depression and This List C McG's rant Tool and King Crimson... what a marriage! RED X 6 Re: Bruford's cash ET #840 Gotta chime in 24-Bit Islands (Hooray!) wierd choice of audience King Crimson in painting The Tool/King Crimson Tour -- Perhaps an unconsidered question or two... Sid Smith King Crimson Book Troubles Tool/Pro cymbal rant ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 22:53:45 -0600 From: Jon Lybrook Subject: NEWS: California Guitar Trio Update Hi All, The second volume in the CGT Direct Collector's Series entitled "Live at the Key Club" featuring Tony Levin and Pat Mastelotto is scheduled for official release on July 1st. The recording will contain the full, uninterrupted, live concert, just as it happened on February 3rd, 2001 at the Key Club in Los Angeles, CA. The recording will become available on-line from CGT Direct, the band's own ecommerce site, at Midnight on July 1. You can also order other CGT and related recordings directly from the CGT by pointing your favorite browser to http://www.cgtrio.com/cgtdirect.htm The California Guitar Trio is in the midst of finalizing their summer tour dates. The tentative tour dates are as follows: JUNE 23 New York, NY Knitting Factory 24 Bethlehem, PA NEARFest 26 New Haven, CT Tune Inn 27-28 Philadelphia, PA Tin Angel TENT 29or30 Washington, D.C. Kennedy Center JULY 05 Toronto, ONT Lee's Palace 06 Ottawa, ONT Ottawa Blues Fest 07-08 trying for Montreal Fest du Jazz and Quebec Festival AUG HOLD 14 San Francisco, CA possible co-bill with Jesse Cook 15 Healdsburg, CA Healdsburg Guitar Festival 16 Los Angeles, CA Skirball Cultural Center HOLD 17 Santa Barbara, CA Soho HOLD 18 Santa Cruz, CA University of California - Santa Cruz 19 tba HOLD 20 San Francisco, CA Great American Music Hall 21 drive HOLD 22 Salt Lake City, UT The Zephyr HOLD 23 Grand Junction, CO Grand River Winery 24 tba conf 25 Boulder, CO Boulder Theatre conf 26 Colorado Springs, CO Smokebrush Performing Arts Center 27 off to drive or potential Wichita, KS play 28 Dallas, TX Poor David's 29 Houston, TX Mucky Duck 30-31 Austin, TX (2 shows 8/31) Cactus Club TENT SEPT 1 or 2 Rockford, IL Waterfront Music Festival (fly-in) end tour Sept. 1 or 2 Next Tour: Northeast/Detroit/Chicago/St.Louis/Atlanta/Baltimore/Philly/Boston/more October 10-27 Please turn off the computer, get out for a little while this summer, and support the CGT on tour! Be sure to visit the Official CGT Website at http://www.cgtrio.com for up to date tour information, CGT Recordings, and a veritable treasure trove of information by and about the California Guitar Trio. Thanks. Jon CGT Web ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:47:28 -0400 From: Dave Hvizda Subject: GIG BIZ KC Tickets on sale NOW!!! Hi All, Tickets are NOW on sale for the June Crimson shows in Nashville at the following site. http://www.faisons.com/ See you there Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 09:15:12 -0400 From: "Trimironman" Subject: Easy Money In reply to Curtis Martens' comment: <> All this discussion of who gets to tour with whom is blather. I once had the misfortune of seeing a reformed KC forced to "start over" with the promoters and open for a drunken head-banging band called Slade. Of course, all the Crimheads left the theatre 90% empty by the time they got on. There is one very important man who makes these decisions. His name is Dollar Bill. Marty Miron "No electrons were harmed in the making of this document" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 10:30:46 -0500 From: "Lord Bravery" Subject: Tool/Crimso Hey gang: First, I want to request that Toby declare this NOT a dead-thread just yet. Secondly, I've been a fan of Tool since 1993, with the purchase of Undertow. I've been a Crimsie since 1997 when I purchased the "First Three" box. I've also been a fan of Primus (though I've grown away from them). Until the release of Anima in 1996, I didn't really know what to make of them. Plenty of darkness on Undertow, for sure. In fact, it may be one of the darkest Delta-blues albums I know. Once I got Anima I looked for a webstie that might clarify my perceptions (FAQsheet, Lyric sheets), and I found the best one at htp://toolshed.down.net. Having a lyric sheet for a band like Tool really opens them up, while dry listens without the lyric sheets make an impressive-sounding band, but too much mystery. I highly suggest grabbing these sheets there. About the Negative imagery you tend to associate with the band, let me say this. They aren't Korn or Biscuit or Creepy (sorry, Creed). Every moment of any Tool album (though not so much their introductory ep Opiate) asks for the evolution of mankind, through Musical design, chemical aid, academic studying of mainstream and Arcane literature, humor focusing, and other measures. The music within the band feels sort of like physical growth spurts a teenager go through when their body needs to readjust for height and reproductive organs. Sometimes, it hurts. It's confused, it changes your perspective. But the end result is a wiser, choosier more readily survivable form of the species. Listen to Anima as an concept album about personal evolution of the human species. That should help. BTW, Danny is considered such a great drummer because he has an aquatic flow in his playing that's incredibly smooth. Another common theme of Tool is the use of Water as symbol of life and death and beingness. The album Undertow is filled with songtitles and images of Water in dark, suffocating forms that aren't ready for pushing through or evolving. I suspect that the newest Tool album (which is pretty good so far w/o benefit of a lyric sheet) deals with Evolution on a galactic/cosmic level after a rebirth of the individual. (The "pregnancy" between the forms of extinction, and the rebirth in advnaced form was Mer de Noms. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 10:44:30 -0600 From: "Guido N. Vacano" Subject: Who's opening for whom? Hello-- Maybe I missed something, but I don't remember seeing "King Crimson is OPENING for Tool", or "Tool is OPENING for King Crimson" on either the Discipline Global Mobile site, or the Tool site (www.toolband.com). My impression is that "who goes first" is much less important to the bands than it is to the rabid fanboys posting to ET. I think it's clear that Tool has a lot of respect for RF and Crimson, and that's really the basis for their touring together. Many years ago, I saw Jeff Beck and Stevie Ray Vaughan touring together, with equal billing. JB opened some shows, SRV opened the other shows. Maybe KC and Tool will do the same? Maybe it just doesn't MATTER! :-) Guido Vacano ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:50:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: Kudasai : I have an online buddy who swears that the "alternate version" of Matte : Kudasai on the recently-remastered Discipline is actually the original : version that first appeared on the lp That is correct. It's kind of a shame that Fripp decided to re-record his solo on this song. True, his time was a tiny bit "off" on the original, but that just (IMO) gave it a "live" feel, like we were actually listening to him improvise in real time. That was pretty rare in 80s Crim (and most 90s Crim, too, IIRC) and there's little danger of that on the re-recorded version, which just features him playing the vocal melody on his guitar. Having never purchased this album on CD before (not a *real* fan, I know! :) I was unaware of the switch until this version came out. : Is he right? If yes, is this old news? It was mentioned in Fripp's diary at one point, but I remember finding the entry a little confusing, especially since I had never been aware that the track had been changed on the previous CD versions. At the moment, I can't seem to find any reference to it at all on the DGM website. Their shopping area gives you no information whatsoever about these new releases other than the fact that they're 24-bit remastered gatefold versions. And I can't even figure out how to get into the diary area with the web browser I'm using (poor website design) but I'm sure that the entry by Fripp is long gone. So I guess the answer is, it's old but insufficiently publicized news. This version of "Discipline", btw, was available in a US store a week before the "official" release date, although they didn't have either of the other two 80s re-issues. Don't know if that makes it a "UK" version or what but it was only $15 so it wasn't priced like an import. As others have mentioned, the cover art now features the DGM company logo and not the celtic knot that was on the original version. The artwork on the booklet is missing the silver ink on the knot so that it appears all black (also, the booklet has continued the annoying habit of cutting off some of the articles in the scrapbook so you can't read the whole thing). I seem to recall that Fripp discovered at some point that the original Discipline knot was a copyrighted work, but surely he could have licensed it from the original artist for this re-issue. While this doesn't affect the content of the album (like leaving Bruford's closing comment off of LTIA), it's still disappointing considering these are supposed to be more definitive than the "Definitive" versions released in '89. I can't help but wonder if these little flaws aren't perhaps leaving the door open for another series of even-more-definitive releases in a few years. Oh well, it sounds good and it is nice to finally have this album on CD. Interestingly, I did a side-by-side comparison with my old Warner Bros. LP and it sounded virtually indistinguishable. I *suppose* that's praise... --Art ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 13:19:22 EDT From: MarkJX at aol dot com Subject: KCan OPENER In a message dated 5/19/01 5:47:33 AM Mountain Daylight Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: > What I'm wondering about is the lack of control over conditions. > This isn't unprecedented for them (think HORDE tour), but there > are going to be a *lot* of people not giving the band their full > attention in the room, and considering how senstive Fripp is to > that, I'm curious to see how he responds. > Let's not forget soundscapes opening for G3, and you could barely call it 'opening'. It was ambiance for all but the few devotees. Robert often started before the door opened and played over an hour on most nights, through the bar noise, reunions, etc... completely under house lights. I would surmise that this is precedent enough. Mark J. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:11:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re; Pesci/Fripp : Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 05:13:11 -0400 : From: spanky50 at impop dot bellatlantic dot net : Subject: MOVIE : : Staring; Joe Pecsi as Bob Fripp "Do I amuse you? What are you saying? I'm a clown, here to amuse you?" :) --Art ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 14:20:34 -0400 From: Michael Kelly Subject: Re: KC, Tool, Depression and This List In addition to the David Botrill connection, Tool write songs often exceeding the 10 minute mark outside the 3.5 minute pop or rap/metal songs filling the airwaves. The songs often include long instrumental passages and a rhythm section worth noting. The lyrics are sometimes odd, adventurous, humorous and often nod towards altered states of consciousness. There are often excerpts from contemporary fringe thinkers like Bill Hicks and Timothy Leary. Nah there is no comparison to King Crimson or it members solo works. In Elephant Talk #840 "C McG" wrote: >Tool are not negative or depressing. They are cathartic much like Crimson. I could not agree more. There is a big difference between searching for light in the darker regions of human nature and being negative and depressing. I'd find it difficult to imagine anyone who has ever had any interest in understanding ones self not being acquainted with some darker aspects of their personality. Negative and depressing - how about healthy and life affirming? I remember hearing Peter Gabriel interviewed where he stated (paraphrasing) that he believed "more growth comes from examining ones darker side, otherwise we would all live in the land of the care bears". Unfortunately I also have to agree that to find strong examples of someone being negative and depressing, one need only read one of these digests. Let me be clear, I think this is one of the best music lists out there, I have subscribed since the "Discipline" days, and greatly appreciate the news, gig info and new music recommendations - hats off to the owner/operators. I think it is truly unfortunate the amount of bandwidth that is taken up by negative and depressing spew regarding topics the authors have no perspective on other than having an opportunity to ramble anonymously. When it get's to the point of RF recommending his band mates NOT read the list - things are pretty sad. Isn't the bottom line here that it is fantastic that KC and Co. are making a conscious effort to create interesting double bills for the tour? I think this is very, very cool and look forward to whatever they can arrange be it Tool, Les Claypool, Birdsongs of the Mesozoic :-), the California Guitar Trio or anyone else. mlk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 16:38:38 -0400 From: David Vella Subject: C McG's rant In #840, C McG wrote: > I often feel depressed after reading ill-informed comments on Elephant > Talk. I recommend a fifth of Jack and a bottle of ProzaKc.... -DCV ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 20:14:58 -0400 From: "Lincoln McCormick" Subject: Tool and King Crimson... what a marriage! Analysis and conjecture are wonderful tools and it is great to exercise them from time to time, but honestly, some of this has gone too far. I've had... - enough of all those people who have been die hard King Crimson fans for years, but who have only just picked up Tool's latest disc or, worse yet, an earlier one, and who don't seem to see the similarities everyone's talking about. People, let me offer you a clue. Tool is a complicated band. Their music, their philosophy, their art, their personality, all have a uniqueness and intricacy that is lacking in most facets of music. If you've only just begun listening to Tool, don't act as if you're fit to comment on their music, because you haven't had time to adjust to it yet. Really, when was the last time you picked up a King Crimson album and knew the ins and outs of the entire composition after one listening? - enough of the people who are complaining that Tool is a band filled with hatred and negativity. Obviously none of you have ever read or listened to their lyrics. Any band filled with intelligent people is likely to have a distaste for many aspects of humanity, and are sure to experience frustration at the sheer stupidity exhibited by many of our fellow citizens. Actually, both bands appear to favour satire over agression in these circumstances. If you think that Tool is a shallow band full of angry, aging teenager types, you're probably one of the dogmatic, gullible fools who are so cleverly mocked by Tool's art. Take a deeper look. - enough of those who take it upon themselves to question the actions and motives and plots and plans of Tool's Maynard Keenan or even the great RF. These bands do what they see fit, and as far as I'm concerned, if they think the matchup will work, I think it will work. Who would know better than the bands themselves? Certainly not you! While I'm posting, too, I might as well mention that "Lithium" was the name of the Nirvana song mentioned in #838. I'm not sure if that's already been resolved, but I figured I'd toss it in. Also, for those budding Tool fans or curious concert-goers who wish to know more about musical similarities between the two bands or what albums to buy, I can throw in my two cents worth as well. To date, not counting live/dvd/compilations/etc., Tool has released three full length albums, Undertow (1993), Aenima (1996) and Lateralus (2001). They are by no means equal, but certainly each has its own flavour. If you're looking to learn about Tool, I recommend Lateralus at the very least, and Aenima next if you've got a decent budget. Or of course, you could just pick them all up! If you're looking for similarities between musical styles and the overall tightness and Crimsonish functionality of Tool, check out "Flood" on Undertow, "Forty Six & Two" and "Jimmy" on Aenima, and Pretty much everything on Lateralus, although emphasis must be placed on "The Grudge". That is all. Thankyou for reading this, if indeed you had that much patience. -- Lincoln lincoln at flatlinesystems dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 01:34:46 +0100 From: Mr Tea Subject: RED X 6 Who in their right mind would happily pay for the same album six times!?! Since its release in 1974, I have bought 'Red' twice on vinyl, once on cassette, and a staggering three times on CD. Where will it end? My original vinyl copy had to be replaced after a moment of clumsiness left most of side two sounding as if it was recorded on a firing range. Years of contented listening followed, but then, in 1986, I got my first CD player. Here, it was claimed, was a medium that could reproduce the full complexity and dynamic range of even the most ambitious music with complete transparency. 'Red' was high on the list of classic albums that demanded to be heard in this new format and I paid rather generously for a US import - but I was not disappointed. Providence was a whole new experience, and Starless, well you could just lie back and soak yourself in it like a deep, hot, scented bath. Plus you could put it on 'repeat play'. Heaven. Things began to get silly with the remastered 'Definitive Edition' of 1989. Another costly import, I was mesmerised into buying it by the mantra-like endorsements of a skilled and enthusiastic sales person (only to see it released at budget price in the UK a month or so later. Pah!) And the aural benifits this time around were marginal at best. Enough! I told myself. So why on Earth have I just shelled out another tenner for the 24 bit remaster. Madness, surely? But wait! Look! The new version comes as a special edition wrapped in an exquisite mini-gatefold sleeve (jewel-case haters unite!). And look, look, there's a revamped booklet full of photos & clippings. And hey, doesn't 'Fallen Angel' seem to have a little bit of extra 'punch' that wasn't quite apparent before... It is an object of exquisite beauty, and I may have to sleep with it under my pillow tonight. Crimson delight. And the cassette? That's another story. Mr Tea -- Brew of the day: Darjeeling ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 21:08:44 EDT From: DrumSci at aol dot com Subject: Re: Bruford's cash << Although I suspect there's more to the story than a simple case of Bruford not wanting to play electronic drums as the reason he's not in KC now.... Perhaps the major one being money. He makes plenty of cash off Earthworks gigs--more so than KC gigs. >> I suppose he told you that? Felix ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 21:22:40 -0400 From: "David Schroeder" Subject: ET #840 ET #840 started off brilliantly with C McG's deffense of Larry LaLonde of Primus and his views on how incredible TOOL's music is. For those who have written critisizing either band, I guess you would want ALL music to sound like Crimson; however, if this were so, than Crimson would no longer sound as original and fresh as they do. I wonder how limited some ETers musical tastes are if they can't open up to bands like TOOL & PRIMUS and the only thing they listen to are bands that sound like KC, which really surprises me since Crimson's music has open me up to listening to a wider variety of diferent styles of music. I for one would love to be able to see King Crimson open for Tool and I'm sure Mr. Fripp knows 'knows' what kind of audience TOOL attacts, especially since he listens to TOOL, and it was often noted in his diary postings...lighten up and open up, people...you find you can enjoy life a lot more! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 21:27:31 EDT From: Obelisk123 at aol dot com Subject: Gotta chime in Gotta chime in here with the thread of The Crimson n Tool, n Primus. I agree with "C McG" on everything he said concerning the above. I want to add the darkness or the dissonance or however folks want to describe it - of Tool not matching the Crimson vibe is kinda silly. I have enjoyed the sheer abrasiveness of Fripp n Co for many a year now. There is beauty in there, all over the place, but what always grabbed me by the neck was the intensity of the chords.. The pounding rhythms and the fearlessness to go into the void so to speak.. Lets face it folks.. It might not be the greatest bill for some but it has major possibilities for exposing more people the exceptional music of King Crimson.. I think its a good thing.. I will be there ( If I can get a ticket ) .. the moshing n all that youthful nuttiness , well... U will just have to deal with it if u want to be there.. That is that.. Either u go or u don't. Primus is ( was... Are ) a exceptional group.. All of the guys in that camp are blistering performers .. On tape and live. Again, might not be the type of tea that u dig.... We all need to woodshed if yr a player of any sort. Closed minds are such a bummer... As others have chimed in I end this here.. lighten up u folks .. Oh yes, be happy.... Listen to King Crimson.... Figure out some Belew licks... N all that stuff.. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 02:39:18 +0100 From: Mr Tea Subject: 24-Bit Islands (Hooray!) At last! A CD release of KC's 'Islands' that isn't seriously flawed. Can anyone here shed any light about 'what went wrong' with the two previous CD versions of this album? On the first CD release, most of Formentara Lady was blighted by a rumble of distortion that suggested a damaged master tape. My old vinyl copy, which then had 12 years of play under its belt, actually sounded better. The re-mastered 'Definitive Edition', on the other hand, sounded substantially worse than the original CD. Horrible, in fact. The rumble had been removed, only to be replaced by a whole catalogue of atrocities. The opening note was slurred, like a tape starting up; a faint, high pitched whine and the audible buzz of primitive studio equipment had been exposed; and the overall sound scratched at the eardrums like a rusty knife. Worst of all was the crime had been wrought on Boz's bass. Throughout the first two tracks it sounded ragged and attenuated, as if someone had just poked a finger through the cone of my woofer. As a final careless gesture, the beginning of 'A Sailor's Tale' had been relocated to halfway through Formentara Lady. I found it hard to belive that RF himself could have lent his name, let alone his approval to this aural catastrophe. It's truly wonderful to finally be able to listen to a CD of this album on headphones without wincing, but am I the only person to have been profoundly disappointed by the earlier releases? And has this issue ever been covered anywhere? Thanks for any information. Mr Tea -- Brew of the day: [ ibid ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 03:48:38 +0100 From: "phill lister" Subject: wierd choice of audience Coz (and others) wondered why Crimso are exposing themselves to a new (TooL) audience. Do you remember reading how one of the challenges which was set up for a Guitar Craft week was to end it with a performance in an expected-to-be unsympathetic setting? GC at a redneck bar, for example? Have the band decided to see what benefits will happen if they try out this approach (not that Tool are "rednecks", but just have a challenging audience for Crim stuff?) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 23:54:57 EDT From: Jankazimierz at aol dot com Subject: King Crimson in painting Hi there! To all King Crimson enthusiasts! Finally someone was moved so deeply by immortal music from the best album in the history of Rock. The album, as all you know, was called In the Court of the Crimson King. Paintings are great, especially one for the Moon Child. There are also two wonderful pieces (Island I, Island II) done to the music from Islands. The painter is from New Jersey, from Linden. Ms. Aleksandra K. Nowak, director of the Skulski Gallery in Clark, NJ, is an amazing artist. Educated in Poland and in the US she participated in several exhibitions and her works could be found in many private collections in Europe and in the US (Hoyt National Art Institute, PA, Johnson& Johnson, NJ). Her work combine elements of Expressionism, Art Novueau, and Symbolism but in very original and personal way. Her favorite artists are Schiele, Klimt, Sagantini, Sargent, and Polish painters as Wyspianski, Wojtkiewicz, Weiss, Stanislawski, Schulz ... Her works could be seen on the internet at www.artpolonaise.com She is going to have a one-man show in the Polonaise Art Gallery in Woodstock, VT, in June 2001. She is going to paint In the Court of the Crimson King and Epitaph and I hope that they will be ready for the show which is going to be opened on June 2nd. If not, she said, she will make another show, since the music is so inspiring and moving. I deeply agree with her. All the best for Crimson (especially the First and the Best album ever) lovers. Jan K. Kapera jankazimierz at aol dot com Wallington, NJ, 5/19/01 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 23:11:18 -0500 From: "Trey Five Winds" Subject: The Tool/King Crimson Tour -- Perhaps an unconsidered question or two... You know, as much as some people read and observe, through diary entries, concert performances, solo albums, and guest performances on others' re- cordings, how each of the individual members of Crimson go about hitting their creative stride, I think I MIGHT have seen ONE person who actually hit the nail on the head: Playing as an opener (reducing egotism and ri- sing to the challenge) for a band that is as radically different from them as Tool is (similarities and audience crossover notwithstanding), if you look at it from a certain point of view, is a way of SHAKING THINGS UP. Unsurprisingly, Bob and the boys like to keep themselves on their toes by doing things like this. Wasn't this some of what the Double Trio was about? How about the ProjeKcts? Improvising entire gigs in front of people who had never heard of them before (Remember, the ProjeKcts often played to people who had never heard of King Crimson, Robert Fripp, or any of the other things they are doing)? Doesn't this kind of strike you as RISKY? It would scare the hell out of me, and throw me WAY out of my own musical comfort zone. This sounds like a plan that Robert Fripp as an instructor of Guitar Craft would endorse very much, judging from what I have read about Guitar Craft. So why should touring with Tool be any different? Or with Jeff Beck or John Paul Jones (both being shows which I would see in a heartbeat were that possible)? As Robert has stated in his diary entries and as part of the mission for the KCCC, King Crimson is trying to emphasise "Process" over "Product." They've done it as far as the recording field, and in how they get their music together. The obvious next step would be live performances. And there are so many ways to do this. Playing as an opening act (which, if some of you will recall, Sting did for the Grateful Dead on one of their last tours) is one such way. This isn't the Court of the Crimson King, this is Tool's Stage. What kind of mark can KC leave there? How about on their audience? No doubt Tool's fans in their newsletters are probably spouting out some hilarious stuff about us, as well, but that's not the point. The point is, where and how do both bands begin to meet the needs of the Creative Act? Will there be any members of the Audience (the whole mass of them, no matter WHO they are there to hear) who can celebrate the diversity of both bands as well as their differences? Where does music really begin and end for both bands? Will both bands come out and play together or just throw down an almighty jam at the end of the show? You know, the very thought of Tool mixing their sounds with the ProjeKction of King Crimson is a very interesting thought. What if KC tried playing "Stinkfist?" Or, how would Tool do "The Deception Of The Thrush?" Or how about all EIGHT of them, or even just various mixed members thereof? Perhaps, just perhaps, Adrian, Robert, Trey and Pat had some of the same thoughts. Perhaps Daney, Justin, Adam and Maynard had them as well. Why not? Remember, as good as King Crimson could ever be, it's not the be-all / end-all of music. It's just the place for King Crimson to play its own music. And you know, some of these other groups can teach the King a thing or two, just as the King could teach them. Better yet, maybe they could learn stuff together. I, for one, would give it an open ear. I can only speak for myself on that matter, though. Even having said that, I would know better than to hold expectations for a show like this. When it really comes down to it, how could you? And, maybe, that might be one of the best reasons for these two bands to tour together. Just a thought or two for perusal. And a good morning to you, Miss (or Mrs.) Cosette! :-) Best Wishes, Trey Five Winds ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 02:48:36 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Sid Smith King Crimson Book Troubles KC enthusiasts may be aware that Sid Smith is in the process of writing what is very likely to be the definitive book on the band. You can follow his progress through his online diary at DGM Web. Those that have been reading his diary will know that his publisher, Helter Skelter, has been pressuring him to keep the book close to a 100,000 word limit. Although it is always good to not be too wordy, can anyone imagine King Crimson being told to keep their next release under a certain number of notes? Sid's daily account of the number of words they've cut back is bordering on the absurd. The fear is that in cutting back the word count Sid will have to sacrifice stories and content that KC enthusiasts would want to read. Sid confided to me that a bit about the Giles brothers, pre-Giles, Giles and Fripp was likely going to be sacrificed, for instance. If you feel concerned that the book will suffer, you should check out Sid's diary for the latest details, and then contact Helter Skelter's Sean Body at helter at skelter dot demon dot co dot uk to express your opinion. Perhaps enough well argued emails might help convince them that there is an audience for this book that would like the whole story, not just the Cliff Notes. Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 23:11:05 -0400 From: Subject: Tool/Pro cymbal rant I first saw tool on the Lollapalooza tour here in the states in 93 on a side stage with about 30 people watching. On the mainstage Fishbone was playing but I had seen the new Tool video for the song Sober and wanted to catch them. So they were incredible, and pretty much covered the Undertow album in its entirety. Their best album IMO. After that album I didnt like much else by them. A lot of bands come and go. King Crimson has been around for over 30yrs! What are they doing and why? I guess I can shut up for now, unless you can direct me to the email addy to post to the classic/prog elephant-talk discussion then Ill be in heaven. Also, drummer here of 16yrs. I go back to the roots. Soul, jazz, funk you name it, if it doesnt come from the soul then Im not interested. Mike Giles use to perform a damn cymbal solo! What is this garbage about not using cymbals? Wake up world! Buy a coletrane disc with elvin jones on drums and do yourself a favor. Or buy the new Soulive disc (blue note) and listen to how fat his ride is and how sick the groove is being layed down in NYC. All this programmed nonsense and drum machines what have you? I talk to the wind and it tells me to puke! PS. is pete giles still in the pc biz? ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #841 ********************************