Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #84 Discipline, Number 84 Friday, 19 March 1993 Today's Topics: Discipline #83 disciplined behaviour New Kid/Losing Virginity Re: Sartori in Tangiers Discipline #83 (Encdote + wanted lyrics ++) sad but true--tales of John Wetton Living Colour vs. King Crimson Wetton nowadays Holdsworth J. G. Bennet question miscellaneous [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 13:38:11 -0800 From: rpeck at pure dot com (Ray Peck) Subject: Discipline #83 toby at computer-science dot manchester dot ac dot uk writes: >Since the album came out, I suspected that Adrian had recently read On The >Road. I read somewhere (the Tamm book?) that Robert made Adrian read On the Road before they worked on Beat. >Okay, I am not overly impressed with anything I've heard by Alan >Holdsworth. But, I keep hearing him praised in places such as Discipline. >So, what should I listen to, in order to hear the best Holdsworth? I'd sugest starting with the first two Bruford albums, "Feels Good to Me", and "One of a Kind". Both are amazing. Holdsworth's later work is closer to jazz than rock. I think his albums tend not to live up with his live playing, with the exceptions of IOU, Road Games, and (his newest) Wardenclyffe Tower. He is the most harmonically advanced musician I've ever heard. It may take a while to understand what he's playing, so stick with it! And see him live, if at all possible (I just saw him twice a couple weeks ago: incredible, as usual). His live playing causes Satori. ;-) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 14 Mar 93 16:18:43 -0800 From: David A. Craig Subject: disciplined behaviour being too selfish to be too concerned that fripp doesn't wasnt me to know what the live band sounded like except for his oh so infrequent releases, i love almost nothing more than getting new live crimson into my ears. is the digest full of fripp loyalists who will tie me to a stake and torch me if i make trading offers on the digest? i don't want to tread on too many toes too soon.. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 14 Mar 93 13:54:00 PDT From: c_king at emulex dot com Subject: New Kid/Losing Virginity I'm new to this group, but being a long-time KC fan, I hope I can add something.I've not seen all the old listings, so I hope that I'm not going over old ground. Have you talked about losing your virginity? I mean hearing Crimso for the first time, of course. Are there people out there with a story to tell? In 1974, long-haired, a year away from graduating high school, I was building hi-fi speaker cabinets in my garage. I plugged my latest creation into my amplifier and tuned in the local Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania progressive rock station, WYDD. WYDD specialized in the obscure and wonderful; I've no idea how they stayed on the air as long as they did-- there ain't no dough in obscurity and wonderfulness anymore it seems. That moment I tuned in, they played this marvelous orchestral-sounding piece that made me put down my tools and sit on the floor, dazed and dizzy from the song's impact. I'd never heard music like that before-- weird lyrics, a chant-like chorus, this fake ending, and a cool singer. I waited and finally heard the disk jockey say that it was, "In the Court of the Crimson King". They hooked me. From that point on, I bought every version of every KC album I could find, plus the boots. 19 years later, I listen to the Great Deceiver compilation and still get buzzed. It's a puzzle: dozens of bands rock harder than Crimson, a million jazz artists improvise circles around them; their lyrics ain't Shakespeare; Wetton is right--when you get down to it, their long numbers were b-ll sh-t; their short pop is only passable compared with hundreds of other pop artists; but, I still love them. And the best thing is that you know Bobby's going to keep reforming and reincarnating them probably through 2015 because suckers like myself keep buying the stuff (even with price tags like Deceiver's). A couple additional things: - Are there other stick players out there? Please e-mail me. - One of the most interesting Crimson-related interview I've seen was an early 1980's Guitar Player interview with John Wetton. He talked in-depth!! about playing with KC, techniques on "Trio", the toughest song to play (I'm pretty sure it was "Easy Money"--he said that it lays one time signature over another, one for vocals, one for music), and his disdain over the recently reformed Crimson--he sounded perturbed about not being asked to be in it. Does anybody know the date of the interview? Anybody wanna type it in? - Isn't another box set due out? I thought I heard a Spring '93 due date. Chris King [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 14 Mar 93 11:29:03 PST From: "John M. Relph" Subject: Re: Sartori in Tangiers Academick Fraud writes: > > Sartori in Tangier, I believe, is a reference to a Paul >Bowles novel, as is the song "The Sheltering Sky," named after one of his >more famous books. Sartori is (please correct me fellow mysticism >followers) an enlightened state, similar to a nirvana notion, and Tangier >is a North African city that Bowles frequented. and Bill Press writes: >While I have no idea what Thela Hun Ginjeet means, I do know that Tangiers >is a country between Algiera and Libya. I believe William Burroughs spent >some time there freaking out (if you've read any of his stuff, you'll know >what I mean). A satori is, loosely speaking, an epiphany, an awakening, an >enlightenment. Close, but no cigar. "Satori" is indeed as Bill says, a state of "enlightenment", however the title of the song is "Sartori in Tangiers". The word "sartorial" means "of or relating to a tailor, tailored clothing, or tailoring", so the title "Sartori in Tangiers" would be, perhaps, "attaining an enlightened state of clothing in Tangiers". A realization pertaining to one's chosen garb? A pun, definitely. And by the way, Paul Bowles' _The Sheltering Sky_ also has a chapter entitled "Tea in the Sahara", a title that The Police used, undoubtedly after reading _The Sheltering Sky_. Quite a wonderful book, albeit hard to get into. The movie does not nearly attain the satori of the book, although it may have its share of sartorial splendor. -- John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: lisper%it dot kth dot se at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 12:34:19 +0100 Subject: Discipline #83 (Encdote + wanted lyrics ++) ophir at math dot tau dot ac dot il writes: >I read that Bjorn Lisper has actually played a Mellotron! >Could you write and tell us about it? I guess I'm not the only one on this list to have put my fingers on such a device, but anyway: I just tried one out briefly once in a music instrument store. I remember that there was a slight delay after pressing a key until the sound appeared, which gave a "mushy" feel. It would be impossible to play anything fast on a mellotron. No doubt this delay was caused by the need to mechanically start a tape for each new note. Furthermore, the tapes ran out after a couple of seconds so you couldn't keep any notes for a long time. (Maybe there were models with tape loops, but the one I tried definitely had no looping.) These two restrictions made the mellotron quite hard to play. But then, the sound...wonderful, warm, immediately recognizable from my fav. Yes/Genesis/King Crimson records... I know I sound like a quitarist speaking about tube amps now... Bjorn Lisper [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 09:22:36 CST From: oskardma at ukraine dot corp dot mot dot com Subject: sad but true--tales of John Wetton In the previous issue of Discipline, someone asked what ever happened to John Wetton. Well, I hate to be the one to tell you, but somebody has to do it. John Wetton joined the band ASIA. Actually, as people have already mentioned, JW has a retrospective CD out and among the songs are a couple of Crimso remakes among other things. Haven't heard it though. So, does anyone know what Wetton is doing now? I haven't (thankfully) heard much of ASIA lately. Apologies to ASIA fans. :-) By the way, I haven't been able to reach Ken Stuart via Email for quite a while now. If you read this Ken, can you drop me a line? take care, david ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ::: David Oskardmay oskardma at ukraine dot corp dot mot dot com ::: ::: Motorola Corporate Systems Research Lab, Schaumburg, IL ::: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: cs163wel at sdcc8 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Living Colour vs. King Crimson Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 10:07:47 PST > new Living Colour album to Crimson (specifically Larks Tongues In Aspic). > Of course, they didn't quite mean it as a complement (that would require > too much taste....:-) ) There were some really funny descriptions --- the > all time winner line describing Vernon Reid as a "multicultural Robert > Fripp". I think I laughed for a few minutes on that one. (Of course, I > find it odd that they would spend so much of the review comparing Living > Colour to Crimson, especially when the reviewer didn't have a positive > opinion of Crimson.) > > Michael Well, the folks at Spin don't seem to have a high opinion of Living Colour either, considering past comments I've read on the band in _Spin_. BTW, did _Stain_ get a green, yellow, or red circle for the review? Doesn't matter to me since I already bought the album :-). I find the words "multicultural Robert Fripp" to be a bit redundant considering how multicultural the man actually is; they reveal how ignorant the writer was. Perhaps describing Reid as a "looser, wilder Robert Fripp" would have been more appropriate. At any rate, it was good to know that the two guitarists hold each other in such high regard. Can we expect a collaboration in the future? -- ******************************************************************************** Paolo Valladolid pvallado at sdcc13 dot ucsd dot edu Discipline is not an end in itself; merely a means to an end. - Robert Fripp [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 13:00:48 EST From: Rob Petrone Subject: Wetton nowadays In response to Ophir's question about what's become of John Wetton, he is presently working on a solo album. This is the main reason he has not reunited with Asia for their new album. This from the mouth of Mr. Geoff Downes himself. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: __+__ I was thinking, 'This is :: Rob Petrone :: :: (+ + +) a dangerous place...' :: Temple University :: :: [[I]] This is a dangerous place :: Philadelphia, PA :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 08:40:48 -0400 From: knishimo at fox dot cce dot usp dot br (Kazuo Nishimoto) Subject: Holdsworth Does anyone in Discipline have an Allan Holdsworth discography? I have _Sand_ and _Metal Fatigue_ and they are great. Eduardo Issao Ito. 'knishimo at fox dot cce dot usp dot br` [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 19:09:34 -0800 From: Tomas Uribe Subject: J. G. Bennet question Pardon my ignorance on this, but I was wondering if anyone out there would be willing to explain the story of J. G. Bennet, who so conspicuously appears in Fripp's solo albums, reciting those ever-so-interesing quotes... Who he is and why he's on the albums should be enough, thanks! [[ This is from memory, so... J.G. Bennett was a British mathematician who became interested in spiritual matters. I think it started with the 'Subud' cult in the early 50s. He set up a school in England somewhere, based on the teachings of G.I. Gurdjieff. I have a couple of Bennett books and they're very hard to follow. I believe it was Bennett's school where Fripp spent his 'recluse year' or whatever, after he disbanded KC in the seventies. This is all very scatty -- sorry! -- Toby ]] By the way, is there a FAQ list on Fripp and Crimson? This question is probably one of them... [[ No there isn't a FAQ yet -- maybe soon though. People could help by sending in suggestions for FAQs that need answers -- Toby ]] - Tomas E. Uribe uribe at cs dot stanford dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 11:16:43 +1000 From: keens at phillip dot edu dot au Subject: miscellaneous In the absence of an Eno list (yes it would be great to have one), I hope you don't mind including this in discipline (though, paolo, he's another makeup and nylons kindaguy :-)). Who is Markus Draws?? Is he a (relatively) unknown like Lanois who eno has found, or is he well known in the music world? On a more disciplined note, I would severely recommend the backissues of discipline from the archives - there is a serious sense of dejavu over questions such as Starless or This night wound time, as these were covered in some of the issues which I recently dragged off. So they could substitute for (and bypass some) FAQs. But not only that, they also have alot of great stuff on them - interviews, fripp on bootlegs etc (this bit is for new readers), plus I found the site which has the typescript of the Journal from the first box set (not all can afford the prices A$140 for each of them) so it was nice to get a copy of the booklet. Whose going to put in the new one!! se ya (ha!) jeremy K [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.