Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #839 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 839 Friday, 18 May 2001 Today's Topics: NEWS: Crimson related releases Jeff Beck In Comparison With Trey Gunn? Loop of the Week Non-Contest Extended! Free As a Bird Crimson Casting Call KC and Toolish negativity ... Of King Cobain, Kurt Crimson & other bands inspired by KC Live Groove wanted Moshing, body surfing Still more gamelan chit-chat Quest for Discipline Fripp? God? An overview. Jeff Beck giles+giles+fripp new lp ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 17:39:28 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: NEWS: Crimson related releases Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Meanwhile, here are some excerpts for Crimson fans: On our import pre-order page GILES, GILES & FRIPP-CHEERFUL INSANITY OF... Japanese digitally remastered reissue of British prog-rock album originally issued on Fontana in 1968. Packaged in a limited edition miniature LP sleeve. On our recent import releases page WETTON,JOHN-ANTHOLOGY THE CLASSIC COLLECTION Classic anthology from vocalist & bassist John Wetton (former member of Asia, King Crimson, Roxy Music, UK, Uriah Heep, Wishbone Ash, Jack Knife & Family). Guest artists include Phil Manzera (Roxy Music), Simon Kirke (Free), Kevin Godley (10CC), Simon Philips (The Who) & Alan White (Yes & John Lennon). 17 tracks including, 'Caught In The Crossfire' & 'Battle Lines'. RX-ELEMENTS RX is a progressive-style group from Japan. There are 3 original members and several guest musicians. John Wetton is a featured guest vocalist. 8 tracks. Coming Soon from Caroline Brian Eno and Peter Schwalm/Drawn from Life 2001 album by Eno & German DJ & percussionist J. Peter Schwalm. We have a new label to welcome to The Artist Shop - Burning Shed Burning Shed is a new online on-demand CDR label set up by Tim Bowness and Peter Chilvers in association with Noisebox label boss Pete Morgan. Run by artists for artists, the intention is to create a strongly focused, artistically coherent and financially feasible medium through which uniquely packaged CDRs of creative non-mainstream music can be sold at a budget price as and when they're requested. The first run of releases includes an album of previously unreleased material by Steven Wilson's (No-Man/Porcupine Tree) celebrated electronica creation Bass Communion, the second album by ambient folk band Alias Grace, a compiliation of singles by post-rock miserablists and John Peel favourites Navigator, an unreleased live album by brooding, late night singer-songwriter project Tim Bowness / Samuel Smiles dating from 1991, and radio sessions from No-Man. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:20:15 -0400 From: "Caruso, Josette" Subject: Jeff Beck In Comparison With Trey Gunn? Who are you to say I can't compare them hun? I can, and I certainly WILL! There are a LOT of similarities between their playing....you just have to listen a bit harder then you are already doing I guess. Technique has NOTHING to do with it....it's all in the magic of the sound! And where did you EVER come across a male named JOSETTE? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 20:09:55 +0100 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: Loop of the Week Non-Contest Extended! In the midst of the 200th Loop Of The Week Non-Contest, as you may have heard already, I received the news of Douglas Adams' passing. To say simply that this is a great loss to us is nearly trivial. In response I am doing several things: 1. "Hitchhiker's Lament" is a long piece just completed and will be posted before Friday night (the 18th) on the http://www.earthlight.net/Studios page. Loops of the Week are no longer dedicated on the passing of people, but focus instead on the future. In any event I felt that a single loop was not sufficient. An entire meditation piece on this was therefore necessary. 2. While the Loop Of The Week Non-Contest was to have halted on Sunday night, it is now being extended to this Saturday night at 2359 GMT (1559 PDT). The reasons beyond the above are mainly that people didn't have enough time to get to the Studios site, and were in part confused about both the sending of a hit counter graphic, as well as whether entering would result in Spam being sent to them. Hopefully these issues have been resolved. With Regards, Stephen Goodman * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios * 200th Loop Of The Week Contest ends May 19! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:32:56 -0400 From: "Carrano, Robert" Subject: Free As a Bird I saw the New Haven, CT show on Saturday, Nov. 18,1995 and about two-thirds of the way through the show, with Adrian alone on stage, he asked "So who's going to watch 'The Beatles: Anthology' tomorrow night?" Maybe I don't remember his wording exactly but you get the idea. He followed up by saying something like "For those of you who can't wait, here's a treat" and played "Free As a Bird". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:42:28 -0600 From: Chris Frain Subject: Crimson Casting Call > I must have more information about the King Crimson movie for I would like > to volunteer as it's casting director. We have no other choice but to have > Gary Olman to play RF. If we can get Tom Green to shave off his beard and > moustache he'll play young Adrian and for older Adrian - Paul Reubens...if > he's available. As for Bill Brufrod, we'll find out what Brandon Fraiser is > doing. > Buck Henry for Fripp and a young Tom Hanks for Bruford..? Actually, Bob Balaban would make a really good Fripp. Heck, I think he was playing Fripp as the music teacher in "Waiting for Guffman." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 23:53:34 -0000 From: "Jason Lake" Subject: KC and Toolish negativity Doug Abrell wrote the following on May 12 regarding Tool. "While their music is often breathtaking and compelling, its not something that makes me smile; it leaves me feeling dirty and hopeless. I do not get any of this from King Crimson. KC's music is far from perpetually shiny and happy, but I would never characterize it as negative." My first thought at reading this is Doug has not had the chance to listen to any pre-Adrian Belew Crimson. For bleakness and despair, songs like "Epitaph" and "Starless" spring to mind instantly from a lyrical angle. And, musically, "The Devil's Triangle" is an utter mind-fornication. "Fracture" still gives me the willies a bit when the coda kicks in. As a depressed 20-year-old when I heard most of these songs for the first time, I also felt dirty and hopeless. Then I felt awed that a song could have that kind of impact on me. To me, the differences between Tool and KC that are causing some level of consternation in this newsletter lie less in the music itself and more in the personalitites of their perceived "core" audiences. Back to lurk mode for another six years. Yours, Jason Lake ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 11:58:21 +0200 From: "Bruno" Subject: ... Of King Cobain, Kurt Crimson & other bands inspired by KC Hi there ! In ET #837 Dennis asked : "Did really Kurt Cobain (from Nirvana) like "Red" very much?" Yes, indeed, Cobain was a great fan of that wonderfully dark album; I think he even said it was one of his faves (as it is to me). You know, Nirvana were not "only" a punk-grunge gang; the first song Kurt learned to play was "Communication Breakdown". You can hear some strange similarities in the Seattle scene beetween bands like Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, even Alice in Chains, and Crimson, Floyd, and also dark-prog from Scandinavia (Anekdoten, Landberk, etc.). Check out also "Mer de Noms" by A Perfect Circle (a side-project by Tool's vocalist, and you'll see what I mean). "Red" has stood so well the test of time, it could almost have been released late year ! Even Metallica's guitarist Kirk Hammett is a fan of Fripp/Crimson. He 's said that until he listened to the "THRAK" album, he'd always thought Crim' was a "math' rock band" (these are his own words !). Crimson music has always been open... I think that's why I'm an entousiast ! Bruno ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:25:56 -0400 From: C Gribbin Subject: Live Groove wanted My copy of P2's Live Groove was stolen from my workplace (along with Radiohead's OK Computer ... various jazz cds, Don Henley, classical, I cant remember what else were left behind). Hard to find in record shops. If anyone has a copy for sale, or can tell me where I might find one, I'd be appreciative. Email privately please to cgrib at rcn dot com. BTW - to the poster inquiring where Beat and TOAPP can be obtained ... try disciplineglobalmobile.com Thanks, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:29:36 GMT+1 From: "Lukasz Drozd" Subject: Moshing, body surfing > So does anyone know what is RF position regarding moshing and body > surfing? > English is not my native tongue. I haven't attended many gigs, either. So could anybody explain to me what "moshing" and "body surfing" is? Does the second one has anything in common with "stage diving"? (You can reply directly to my e-mail address) [ Private mail only please -- thanks, Toby ] TIA Pozdrawiam, Lukasz Drozd drozd at vela dot filg dot uj dot edu dot pl drozd at pro dot onet dot pl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:06:03 -0400 From: "Eric / Susan Young" Subject: Still more gamelan chit-chat Hi Friends - It's me again, wondering if I sent the mp3 of the Gamelan recording to all who had written me. I'm sorry for my feeble memory, so I will quickly repeat.... Months and months ago I mentioned that my wife's Gamelan group had (years and years earlier) performed a piece, written by a friend of mine, for a Gamelan ensemble. It was based around two KC songs. (I'll let you figure it out). I got many requests for this - as well as to send my offered tape of Gamelan music - from fellow ET'ers who may be interested in hearing real Gamelan music performed. The mp3 is, admittedly, not the very best of quality recording, but interesting. Additionally, my friend Bill (the song's author) got a reply from Robert Fripp, years ago, after he had approached him and asked for permission. The reply was positive. Also, many many people wrote asking to hear of my ''story'' with Mr. Fripp. Thanks for that. My only hope is that readers of my story were not bored with it, and that it puts to rest all the negative, slanderous Fripp-Bashing! He is a true gentleman and that's that. I'll send to anyone else inquiring. Sorry to have again taken up your Crimson-crunching. Eric Young ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:55:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael J. Bennett" Subject: Quest for Discipline When I heard about the release date for the remastered Discipline, I never knew it would be so hard to find. It was to be my birthday gift, so I didn't want to order it online, I wanted it NOW! I went to a local Best Buy, and they had one copy, but it looked like someone sat on it sideways. When I brought it to a clerk's attention and asked if they had any more in stock, she said no, and placed it back on the rack!! I then went to Border's and Dingleberry's, neither of which had them. I then drove across town to another Best Buy, where they had TOAPP and Beat, but no Discipline. The National Record Mart was out of business I soon discovered, and Circuit City didn't have it. Frustrated, I went home and got the phone book, and literally started at the top and called every cd store in town. I finally found *one* last copy at Record Town (hey kids, let's go to Record Town!), a mall-type overpriced cd shop. I paid $17.99 for it, but considering it is the only copy for sale in two cities I paid it!! I never owned this on disc before, and it sounds wonderful. The bonus track has some wonderful Fripp soloing, but I was dissappointed in the length of the disc. Even with the bonus track it is under 43 minutes. I wish Robert would have put some cuts from the Mole's show as a teaser for people to check out his cd club. I also agree that KC sounds much better live than on disc. The live Indiscipline on Frame by Frame blows away the original. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 17:39:46 EDT From: Leftsimeez at aol dot com Subject: Fripp? God? I hate to say this but you guys need to get lives. Have I missed something? Has Fripp become God now? Don't get me wrong, I love KC, but some of your questions are so DUMB! Who gives a D@MN whether he likes crowd(not body!) surfing or not?!! He is a normal person who happens to be famous and a great musician! Who cares about whether he was drunk, or if he likes moshing, or if he puked on someone? I mean really! Get real guys. ~BRUce PeaRSon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 22:17:59 -0400 From: "Ryan Tassone" Subject: An overview. Hi! A few things I've been thinking about recently, and in response to various posts floating around: 1. To get the thread-related obligatory contribution outta the way, I do declare that Sam Neill would be dead ringer for at least the 80's Fripp, were a movie to be made about KC. For Belew, and I've always made this observation, Nicholas Cage with a good performance and dim lights. Think of it...big forehead, arched eyebrows, a little make-up and it's him. Don't feel like thinking of the rest of 'em right now... 2. A comment was made a while back about a recording on the Nightwatch CD containing a "rare Fripp boo-boo" in its rendition of Larks' 2. Well, maybe Fripp bloopers are rare, but just for fun, with no malice or negative connotations, I've come up with a few instances where I've found band blunders in KC live performance. A. The most hilarious moment of the Heavy ConstruKction enhanced CD is during the middle portion of "Cage," which is in 7/4, where Belew and Pat are a quarter-note apart from each other in their phrasing. At one point, Ade turns to Pat and starts bobbing up and down like a pigeon, trying to communicate the groove of his acoustic guitar arpeggio, and Pat just grins, having too much fun. Classic. B. Similarly, in the Live in Tokyo performance of "Thela," Bruford is a quarter-note off, towards the end (the 'boom' is where the 'chick' should be, and vise-versa). This happens in several KC dance-oriented tunes when played live by the 80's band, I guess it's just a result of a more laid-back approach to composing for them during that era; i.e. lots of jamming around a pulse, rather than strictly orchestrated interplay. C. Heavy ConstruKction again, this is very odd to me. During "VROOOM" (not on the enhanced CD, this is disc 1 I'm talking about), where Fripp is doing his 7/8 arpeggio for the first time, Trey Gunn doesn't play anything until the second half of that section. It's as if he was so used to twiddling his thumbs while Tony played the melody line and he suddenly thought, "shit, I'm up!" D. Several tempo mismatch difficulties during the previous disc's performance of "FraKctured," namely between Fripp and Belew, the latter of whom also seems to be struggling to remember that dang Octatonic scale, and thus hits a few sour notes (but isn't the Octatonic scale sour-sounding anyhow?). E. The Nightwatch shows Wetton singing at a rediculously fast pace during most of "Exiles," but especially in the bridge ("Oh, Lord, I had to go..."). And we all know about the title song's technical failure of the Mellotron on David's end. F. These next ones aren't bloopers, just odd happenings that I haven't yet been able to explain. Live in Japan 1995, LTiA2: near the middle, a sqeaky rubber-ducky type of noise is heard, just before Fripp returns to the main riff by himself. Adrian turns to Bruford and laughs, Fripp turns to Bruford and smirks, and the camera shows Bruford...deadpan expression, has no idea what's going on. My guess is that everybody else thought Bruford got the sound from one of his pads, but really it was Pat. Strange...lastly, just a chilling moment, I think, is in the Live at Frejus video during "Sheltering" (near the end, fadeout I believe)...a fly, or a moth, flies next to Fripp's body in one shot, and then a few seconds later, we see presumably the same insect flying near Levin. I just found that really poignant, dunno why. Think of some more, it's fun! 3. What is the purpose, after all this time, of the "Kc" inserted in so many song titles? I know it's King Crimson, but the significance of it to the music eludes me. And it goes on for the new album! Which, by the way, marks the first time Crimso has spanned a decade and not disbanded. That's my lot. See ya. Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 23:20:19 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Jeff Beck Thanks Rick for>Forgive Mr.Caruso Jeff,For He Knows Not What He Writes... You CANNOT Compare Jeff Beck, with Trey Gunn! Jeff Beck (along with Pete Townsend, Eric Clapton, and possibly session player Jimmy Page) invented the electric guitar that sounds nothing like a guitar we all take for granted. At about the same time, they pioneered feedback and fuzz sustain. Without Beck every guitar player would sound like the cats who played with the Everly Brothers (not that there's anything wrong with that). Guitar sounds that are generic today were invented by Beck. Hendrix later took it to a whole new level but Jeff was there first. Gunn's terrific but this is a whole different league. Yes, Crimson is God but there are other deities they share the firmament with. Later, Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:41:53 +0100 From: "Keith Wright" Subject: giles+giles+fripp new lp Giles+Giles+Fripp new Lp is now available to order from kwright at hertreg dot ac dot uk price #15. + (P+P) includes A solo fripp instrumental track plus I talk to the wind( early version) Limited to 1000 copies on 190gm vinyl. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #839 ********************************