Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #837 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 837 Sunday, 13 May 2001 Today's Topics: Free as a Bird Jeff Beck In Comparison With Trey Gunn? Re: Technical Question regarding Heavy Construkction video Tool and KC Re: KC/Tool misgivings Tool/KC Re: K.C. influence in Tool Doom! Terror! (slightly ranty) Ssshhh KC/Tool Re: KC/Tool misgivings Re: Which Tool? Kurt Cobain and King Crimson "Red" album Re: Printing Error with Discipline 24-bit? Uz Jsme Doma Outside Perspective: Tool King Crimson plus TOOL KC/tool/Primus Australian tour, anyone? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 15:40:18 -0400 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Free as a Bird In ET #834, Randall.Hammill notes: >>>Free as a Bird live from KC shows in NYC in 1995 is on Belewprints, the second Acoustic Adrian Belew album.>>> As I recall, the song debuted on the Beatles Anthology TV show on ABC-TV on a Sunday night. The first night of a Crimson stand began the night after, a Monday (which I surmise from the archive of tour dates at the Elephant Talk website was November 20). I missed that show but attended the show the following evening. At the Tuesday show, I learned that the night before, Belew had come out on stage solo, and performed "Free as a Bird" as the first song of the evening. It was not played on the 21st, and I don't know about the 22nd or 24th; it is possible that it was performed just the once. At the time the gesture seemed very cool, and harkened back to 1967, when (legend has it) Sgt. Pepper came out in England on a Friday, and the following Sunday night Hendrix opened his show with the title track. I trust my spelling was up to snuff this time out. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 16:12:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Wilsovox at webtv dot net (RiKc & R.Elaine Wilson) Subject: Jeff Beck In Comparison With Trey Gunn? I Rarely Step into caca Comparisons of this nature, But after reading the comments of J.Caruso in E.T.#834, I couldn't contain Myself. Forgive Mr.Caruso Jeff,For He Knows Not What He Writes... You CANNOT Compare Jeff Beck, with Trey Gunn! First,They are Guitarist of two different generations,Beck Has MORE than Paid his Dues,and IS a LEGEND in his own Right,and a member of The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame. Now, While I do respect Trey Gunn as an Excellent Musician (Because There are NO second rate musicians in King Crimson), He Plays a TOTALLY Different Style of Guitar, In a Totally Different way. While Jeff Beck Picks with his Bare Fingers,Trey Plays "Touch" Guitar,Warr Guitar,which is an art in itself! Let's NOT put these two in a comparison...There is NO COMPARISON. Thanks. RiKc Wilson. The Outrider-//:<>://-Flames Of Albion//Succubus- SuperHype/LiQuid MerCury Productions,LLC... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 18:19:47 -0400 From: Ashley Collins Subject: Re: Technical Question regarding Heavy Construkction video In ET #834, James J. Hannigan wrote: > I once made the regrettable mistake of trying out AOL, and am still > attempting to clear files from my hard drive. In trying to play the > video on CD 2 of HC, I get an error message that I need "aol.exe" to > run an AOL HTML Document; I assume that's a file I deleted long ago. > It's telling me that the video is an AOL HTML file, which doesn't make > sense. Anyone know what to do about this, or encounter the same > problem? Thanks - Jim Possibly when you dumped AOL (good for you!), you may not have set IE or Netscape or whatever browser you're using as the default. I don't have the instructions on how precisely to do this handy, but they should be on Netscape and Microsoft's FAQ pages. After you make this adjustment, double-clicking the file should bring up the appropriate browser. It's been my experience that for whatever reason, the video works better with IE than Netscape (hmmm, let's see, the file requires Windows Media Player, and Netscape isn't manufactured by Microsoft . . . I just can't see the connection). So, if you prefer Netscape, an alternate method might be to open IE, which I keep around mainly for viewing Java-intensive pages, go to File\Open, and browse around your CD-ROM drive until you find the appropriate HTML file and select that. You should be good to go from there. Hope this helped. Ashley Collins ashcollins at sybercom dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 07:20:40 -0700 From: "R. Jackson" Subject: Tool and KC You know, this falls very close to my own feelings about Tool. They are obviously very talented individuals and their music is frequently complex and challenging, but at the core of their music is something very dark and unpleasant. I find it terrible and pitiable that Maynard was molested as a child, but seeing him dressed in women's clothing and screaming about his pain is something best left for private therapy sessions. When I've seen Tool in the past I always came away thinking I should be billing Maynard at the end of the evening. The feeling that he's using the audience to satisfy some desperate personal need never leaves me. The other thing worth noting is that the audiences Tool attracts are typical modern metal audiences, which means violent behavior becoming progressively more dangerous the closer you get to the stage. I don't know about any of you, but I stood 15 feet or so from the stage at the Fillmore for King Crimson last fall and didn't experience so much as a nudge from the people standing around me. I relish concert experiences like that. I already know that I won't be within 100 feet of the stage if Tool is going to be sharing the bill with KC. I went to the hospital emergency room after daring to get too close to the stage during a Primus show in '95 and I'm just not willing to chance serious injury again to see a band I like up close. I know, I sound like a pathetic old fart. ;-) -Rob At 02:32 PM 05/12/2001 +0000, you wrote: >What I get from Tool is hate, ugliness, agression, bitterness and >negativity--things that don't make me feel good. While their music is often >breathtaking and compelling, its not something that makes me smile; it >leaves me feeling dirty and hopeless. I do not get any of this from King >Crimson. KC's music is far from perpetually shiny and happy, but I would >never characterize it as negative. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 10:51:53 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Re: KC/Tool misgivings At 02:32 PM 5/12/01 GMT, Doug wrote: >Gang-- >I don't know how excited I am to see KC paired up with Tool. I don't write >this out of total ignorance about Tool, because I have really liked them in >the past. But now, after some time, there's not really much I like about >them at all. Doug also included many other points about how this pairing just doesn't work for him (and probably other Crimson fans as well, myself included). And I have to admit that it's a show I probably won't attend. But I have to say that I'm glad they're doing it. I think it's a smart move for Crimson. Like Doug, I caught Crimson last November in Cleveland. It was a good show and generally a crowd that I could relate to. This tour was definitely meant for the faithful fan base. However, that was just a few months ago. So it would probably be difficult to justify the same type of tour or the same purpose for touring so soon after that event. So the pairing with Tool has happened to serve an entirely different purpose. It was not a matter where Crimson was thinking, "Gee, what band could we play with that our fans like?" That's the wrong question I'm afraid. The purpose of the upcoming tour is not to reinforce the existing fan base - that's what the last tour was for. The purpose of this tour is to add to that fan base. Therefore the really important question for Crim has got to be, "What band has fans that may not have heard of us, but would really dig us if they heard us play?" So from that perspective, I feel that this pairing will serve the intended purpose for Crimson of bringing new fans into the fold. And I think this process is vital for the continuation of Crim. So while I'm not personally exciteed about this pairing with Tool, I don't begrudge them such tours, and feel confident that they'll be back again on their own. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 11:00:36 -0400 From: Anthony Campopiano Subject: Tool/KC I'd have to say it will be a very interesting crowd. As far as the music....well Tool is amazing to say the least. Lets get ready to mosh. Peace ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 11:50:03 -0400 From: Mark Rehder Subject: Re: K.C. influence in Tool The cover story of the current (June) issue of Modern Drummer magazine is on Danny Carey, drummer for Tool, where he freely admits his Bruford influences. The interview also delves into his interest in numerology and the occult. An interesting read... Mark -- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "In a world without walls or fences, who needs Windows or Gates?" Come and visit my Webpages at: http://home.istar.ca/~marker/ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 12:16:10 EDT From: OTotor0 at aol dot com Subject: Doom! Terror! (slightly ranty) Hello enthusiasts, My "virgin" KC concert experience was the first NYC show of the double trio tour. As I sat in my lucky sixth row position (in the very civilised, no-chance-of-a-moshpit theatre seat) the gentleman directly in front of me puffed continually on a stinky joint. The more stoned he became, the more rapid his French-accented cries of "ROBAIRR FREEEEEEP!!!" became. If I saw this man on the street (yes, even six years later) I would clock him directly on the noggin for distracting me from the monstrous Beast blowing away onstage that night. Similar experiences have followed my live Crimson experience from city to city and venue to venue, culminating in my asking the (again, stoned) gentleman in front of me at the first NYC TCoL show last fall to please stop yelling "Cat Food" every thirty seconds during "FraKctured." (He wouldn't.) My little point, such as it is, has two prongs. 1) Any time you invite the public into a large area some incredibly dopey people will show up and act ridiculous, i.e. "mosh," yell to the point of distraction, or (heavens) vote Republican. Of all the dinosaurs that were clomping around stages in 1969, KC is the only experience that has had the testicular fortitude to change as change has been necessary. I am still less than thirty years old and have been following this band for over ten years. Please don't begrudge that experience to any twentysomething (?) Tool fan who might see this tour and realise that KC is, as they say, the real deal. Lots of the howling about lineup changes and the lack of Fripp's authorising a putrid "greatest hits" tour comes from the same, slightly ( :) older crowd that seems to sit in front of me at shows, yell incessantly about ancient history (i.e., "Islands" or some such) and make my personal airspace smell like a small farm in Mexico has caught fire. My personal experience, as explained, is that every show has arseholes. At least this summer the arseholes will be closer to my age. Tool, by the way, are a Pretty Good Band. Minus the foreboding imagery the music actually stands out in a crowd. Why not listen? 2) It has never been clearer that it is time for some of us to get off the bus. Leave now! Quickly, before some evil teenage Tool fan steals your wallet, moshes you into a heap and forces you to chant "Adrian is a better singer than Boz! Adrian is a better singer than Boz!" Run!!! -Thom Soriano www.NovaSocial.com (Please send hate mail directly to me so I can immediately post it on my site.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 12:32:43 -0400 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Ssshhh In ET # 835, Pascal Perusse asks: >>>So does anyone know what is RF position regarding moshing and body surfing?>>> Presumably he's fine with it-- as long as it's done QUIETLY. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 14:16:59 -0700 From: Kathy Foster Subject: KC/Tool Friends - I've listened to Crimson from the start (I'm 50). My 17 year old son (who is a guitarist/composer deeply influenced by Fripp) introduced me to Tool. We are excited about the shows and hope to see them in the Southeast. We're fortunate to see Tool open their tour here in Atlanta on Tuesday. Their commonality is stronger than the obvious differences. The muse they hear is related, somewhat "negative" (whatever that bifurcation means), the "dark -> light." Tool can be amazingly delicate, intricate and beautiful as well as wrath-of-God like, often in the same composition (in my hearing, a Crimson quality). I don't know how Fripp will resolve the obvious difficulties of "moshing," but Tool is clearly on record as not advocating violence; to the contrary, they seem intent upon transcending dualisms and making something beautiful from what might be considered by some as ugly. At Lollapalloza '97, Maynard told the moshers they were mistaken if they thought the music advocated hurting anyone. Perhaps Fripp will take the attitude he had on the Horde Tour; when it's an aggragate situation different protocols apply. The members of Tool acknowledge a substantial influence from KC. Like Crimson they definitely improvise in concert. As for humor connections, I've seen Maynard perform as a woman (relatively complete with breasts) and as a revival preacher (eg: "...Can I get a 'Jesus Fucking Christ?' "). "Indoor Games," indeed. They sometimes include the work of Bill Hicks (comedian, r.i.p.) in their productions. To say that Tool is humorless indicates not knowing their work. Who should open for who is moot. I'm certain the musicians can make mutually agreeable arrangements. Maynard is coming off a huge "side project" with Perfect Circle, a surprisingly successful debut. Perhaps this is why KC opens. Who knows; who cares. We're going to see two of the most powerful ensembles in modern music - together. These concerts hold exquisite promise. Be good to yourselves. Phil Foster ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 11:45:49 -0700 From: "Joey Aguilera" Subject: Re: KC/Tool misgivings >But the things I like >about the Crim (beauty, symmetry, strength and >drive, angularity, things >that make me feel good) don't have much in >common with Tool You just described Tool for me and the countless others who are hardcore, intelligent tool fans that don't go to the show to get aggression out. >What I get from Tool is hate, ugliness, aggression, >bitterness and >negativity NEGATIVITY .. dude read the lyrics before you make a statement like that. We aren't talking about limp bizkit over here this is tool. They don't tell you to do anything negative Maynard sings about his life experiences and encourages you to think for yourself and find it out for your self. What is negative about that ? "My shadow's Shedding skin and I've been picking Scabs again. I'm down Digging through My old muscles Looking for a clue." "I've been crawling on my belly Clearing out what could've been. I've been wallowing in my own confused And insecure delusions For a piece to cross me over Or a word to guide me in. I wanna feel the changes coming down. I wanna know what I've been hiding in" "A child's rhyme stuck in my head. It said that life is but a dream. I've spent so many years in question to find I've known this all along." Belew wrote "I have a dream" and there are a lot of negative refrences in that poem but I wouldn't call it a negative piece of work. All this talk about TOOL / KC touring and it's only going to be 7 shows. If you are lucky enough to be in one of the cities these shows will take place at and have mixed feelings about the crowd that will be attending then just don't go and wait for Crimson to come by alone. Trust me they will have to come back, the NY tool show sold out in 60 seconds which means this is going to be a hard show to get to and I believe a lot of KC fans are going to miss out. _ Joey Aguilera http://www.indiscipline.net/fripp/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 11:49:00 -0700 From: "Joey Aguilera" Subject: Re: Which Tool? I would really recommend the Salival box because of the live CD. It's more true to what Tool will be doing this year and has some nice tabla work on it and a killer cover of zeps "No Quarter". If you don't want to get the box ( I think it's only $30 ) go for Aenima or wait for this coming tuesday ( 15 ) and get the new one "Lateralus". _ Joey Aguilera http://www.indiscipline.net/fripp/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 22:57:17 +0400 From: "Dennis Adamchuck" Subject: Kurt Cobain and King Crimson "Red" album Hello! It's my first letter to Elephant Talk forum and I hope I'll find there answer for my question :) Did really Kurt Cobain (from Nirvana) like "Red" very much? and one more little question When Robert will come in Russia with gig? Best wishes, Dennis mailto: dennis_ru at mail dot ru ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 00:24:41 +0200 From: Piotr Zlotkowski Subject: Re: Printing Error with Discipline 24-bit? My copy of "Discipline" remaster has the same printing error. And probably the whole batch of remasters which are available in Poland (or at least the most of them) are misprinted. It's in my opinion scandalous that nobody at Virgin has noticed this and that the defective albums are on the market. PZ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 15:31:43 -0700 From: Greg Breit Subject: Uz Jsme Doma Anne Kwik posted: >I would like to thank the poster who - some time ago - advised the czech >band 'Uz jsme doma', from whom I never heard of before. I just recently >went to Prague, and bought a CD from them there, which is called 'Pohadky >ze zapotrebi'. The title means 'fairy tales from necessity' and also the >cover reminds me a little bit of King Crimsons (and other 'prog rock') >covers of the early 70ies. The music is really great - thank you very >much. Funny you mention this great Czech band -- I just today received an updated show schedule for the Casbah here in San Diego. They will be playing here on July 2. They tour the U.S frequently and will pass through North America this summer (after finishing in Europe at the beginning of June). Tour dates are at: http://www.uzjsmedoma.com/tour/index.htm Very intense live show. Well worth seeing. gb ------------------------------ Date: 12 May 2001 23:28:03 -0000 From: "Brian Reynolds" Subject: Outside Perspective: Tool I am different than most KC fans: just became one this past year. However, I became a TOOL fan in 1993. I am psyched about the chance to see their combined live show in August. As for TOOL: If you were to listen to their first EP "Opiate," then listen to the new LP "Lateralus," you'd hear extreme growth and maturity. Last night, I nabbed a copy of BASS PLAYER Magazine, which has TOOL's bassist, Justin Chancellor, and a copy of MODERN DRUMMER, which features Danny Carey. The interviews were very insightful. Both articles note how they play and develop songs on the road as evidenced by the change in "Pushit" from the LP "Aenima" to the live EP "Salival." People wonder why KC and TOOL would tour together. What do they have in common? I think it is simple. 1. Both play by no rules. The music is extremely creative when you compare it to the run-of-the-mill rock radio stuff. 2. Great live performances. 'nough said. 3. Like Carey states in his latest interview, the last two TOOL LP's are hard to swallow at first. He liken that to listening to an old YES album or KC album. Then, they GROW on you. They definitely do. 4. Both are unique. They are both in a league of their own. I read in one newsletter that someone felt TOOL was just angry and full of hate. Maynard's lyrics are very deep and while some of the early songs have tinges of hate, the TOOL stuff from "Undertow" on are very cryptic and emotionally charged. Well, I hope you non-TOOL fans will open you ears to them and give 'em a chance. Definitely check out "Lateralus!" Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:51:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Sergio Arroyo Subject: King Crimson plus TOOL This is the first time I write here, I have been a constant reader of all of your letters and am afraid that my english is not as good as to express what I nedd to now... I any of you is able co read spanish, read this: He sido un fan de Tool (?TOOL?) por algo mas de siete anos, tengo el "Undertow" y el "AEnima", ha sido muy dificil para mi conseguir en Costa Rica el "Opiate". Sea como sea, se que los discos mencionados son suficientemente representativos de Tool. Comparto la opinion de algunos de quienes han escrito aqui, las letras de Tool, en algunas ocasiones son terribles, insoportables ("shit and blood and cum in my hands", from "Prison Sex"), pero la musica es insoportablemente abrazadora, te sumerge en un mundo mucho mas alla del convencional para la musica rock. NO dire quienes son King Crimson ni la importancia para la hsitoria y el presente de la musica progresiva. SOlo dire que si mas personas tienen la oportunidad de conocer a Crimson gracias a Tool, estos conciertos seran muy valiosos para todos. Considero que King Crimson, en el mejor de los sentidos que se le puede dar a una palabra, esta utilizando a Tool como una herramienta, como un "tool" para alcanzar aquellos lugares adonde no habia podido llegar. I hope this brief letter could have been of interest for anyone. Cheers Sergio Arroyo M. From Costa Rica. ===="Soy un Adan que suena en el Paraiso, pero siempre despierto con las costillas intactas." (Juan Jose Arreola)/ "I am an Adam who dreams in Paradise, but I do always wake up with my ribs untouched." (Juan Jose Arreola) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 22:45:25 -0400 From: Brian Preston Subject: KC/tool/Primus After my last post, irony of ironies, Tool was on Leno the other night... (that was Tool I just happened to see on Leno the other night, right?) What happened with that gig? The lead singer's guitar was out of tune and the song was like barely 3 chords... they seemed like a poor version of STP or Creed or something. Of course, the Leno gig isnt the best. I remember when Crimson played on Conan O'Brien a few years back (remember that?) Not their best show! I know the guys in Primus (and forgive me Dave L if you're reading) Les is pretty good on bass, but Ler, I'm sorry, he needs to woodshed for a long while. I like noise if its done creatively, but... And is Brain playing drums with them now? We met him on their last tour. He's a very good drummer. Just listen to the Southpark theme, that's Les and the boys. I usually like 1 or 2 songs per relase. BUT, I wouldnt put them anywhere near the complexity and brilliance of King Crimson. If they want comparative brilliance, how about Mike Keneally and Beer for Dolphins?? Im still recovering from a show he did here in Chapel Hill 2 years ago!! My god. By the way, my band Freehand did pretty killer versions of Thela Hun Ginjeet, Red, Matte Kudasai and Lament back in the 80's. Those are all very fun songs to play!!! keep keeping us posted... bkp Onomata http://www.umbrellarecordings.com/feature.html Smokin'Granny meta4ik.home.mindspring.com/smokingranny ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 14:13:40 +1000 From: "Craig Jones" Subject: Australian tour, anyone? >Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 07:58:28 +0200 >From: Harald Milz >Subject: European tour, anyone? > >Hi, > >I am ashamed to say I missed the concert in Muich last June :-(( Is anyone >aware of plans to tour Europe / Germany in the future? > >THX! What about the chance of an Asian/Australian tour? No chance at all? all the best Craig Jones Melbourne, Australia good_king_zog at msn dot com dot au ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #837 ********************************