Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #835 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 835 Saturday, 12 May 2001 Today's Topics: RF on moshing and body surfing KC/Tool misgivings Free As A Bird KCCC #16 - Berkeley 8/13/82 3 Three Of A Perfect Pairs European tour, anyone? Re: Abstinence and Rock and Roll thanks to the poster who advised Uz jsme doma Which Tool? Two Loons For Tea kc/tool Re: KC Tool and Primus The Howling K.C. influence in Tool KC/Tool Birdsongs Of the Mesozoic KC Tribute ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:32:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Pascal Perusse Subject: RF on moshing and body surfing So does anyone know what is RF position regarding moshing and body surfing? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:23:37 -0700 From: "Doug Abrell" Subject: KC/Tool misgivings Gang-- I don't know how excited I am to see KC paired up with Tool. I don't write this out of total ignorance about Tool, because I have really liked them in the past. But now, after some time, there's not really much I like about them at all. I do have to admit that their music is miles beyond anything that passes for today's metal or alternative rock. But the things I like about the Crim (beauty, symmetry, strength and drive, angularity, things that make me feel good) don't have much in common with Tool in my esteem. What I get from Tool is hate, ugliness, agression, bitterness and negativity--things that don't make me feel good. While their music is often breathtaking and compelling, its not something that makes me smile; it leaves me feeling dirty and hopeless. I do not get any of this from King Crimson. KC's music is far from perpetually shiny and happy, but I would never characterize it as negative. What this leads to is the mix of audience at these shows. I stopped enjoying attending concerts in 1993 after going to see one of my longtime favorite bands, the Meat Puppets, open for the Stone Temple Pilots. I was there to see the band play, but during an acoustic segment of the Meat Puppets' set, I got kicked in the head by a jack-booted idiot who was crowd surfing. What on earth is someone doing crowd surfing during an acoustic set?!? Well, I can tell you one thing--he wasn't listening to the music. Since that day, the only shows I've attended have been 2 shows on the THRAK tour, and last November in Cleveland. Even though there are occasional drunk fools who shout disrespectful stuff like, "C'mon, play something I know," or "Easy Money!", characteristically the KC crowd is there to watch and listen. I'm not so sure I want to be in a venue where the vast majority of the crowd is 16-21 (no offense meant to any ETer's in this age group), altered on some substance, and there to release pent-up agression. I am not expecting this demographic to embrace Crimson, or to even have any reference point to their significance. If anything, I would expect a thoughtless collective plea to "get the old farts off the stage". ("What's that old dude doing sitting down?") I may be wrong--these may be great shows. I know if they are the only chance for me to see KC this fall, I will go. Besides, shouldn't Tool be opening for the Crim? Sincerely, Ted Goodyear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:38:19 -0400 From: woodyh Subject: Free As A Bird ETers: A fellow ETer posted: "I don't know if its recorded anywhere... but King Crimson did cover the Beatles' "Free as a bird" in concert. I saw it in New Haven on the Thrak tour in 1995. I think it was the night before the Beatles' version was released. Adrian Belew performed it as a solo, setting his guitar to play as a piano. It was a memorable moment in a great concert." "Free As A Bird" is included on Adrian Belew's album, "BELEWPRINTS." Get it; it's his best solo effort! It also includes several excellant versions of previously released solo material. Waiting for Dust, Woody (from Romeo, MI) Hoerauf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 23:22:29 EDT From: MongoBoy at aol dot com Subject: KCCC #16 - Berkeley 8/13/82 If there are any KCCC members who may be interested in an even swap for the next Club CD, please let me know. I may have an item or two of interest for trade (Mexico City, UK Concert Classics) for instance. Move on... Lembond ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:55:25 +0500 From: "Igor Kocherov" Subject: 3 Three Of A Perfect Pairs Hi. Really. :) Here I would like to tell you about some kind of listening to KC compositions. Some time ago I listened to KC by albums. I mean from the beginning to the end of an album. I couldn't listen to such type of albums like the very best, etc. (Not only KC). Then I started to listen to some songs more frequently - Easy Money, Frame By Frame, Three Of A Perfect Pair... Later, when I purchased more CDs with live concerts of KC, I found out that there are more powerful versions of the same compositions then in the studio albums. Now I invented a new kind of listening. I have created some playlists with the same songs but of different versions of them. Now it's good to me to listen to Easy Money 3 or 4 times - studio albums, live concerts... So about Three Of A Perfect Pair, Frame By Frame, Cage, 21-t Century Schizoid Man... I think this gives me more feelings of the compositions and shows me the feelings of the members of KC of that compositions. That's all for now. Good luck! Vorgi ikocherov at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 07:58:28 +0200 From: Harald Milz Subject: European tour, anyone? Hi, I am ashamed to say I missed the concert in Muich last June :-(( Is anyone aware of plans to tour Europe / Germany in the future? THX! -- Crime does not pay ... as well as politics. -- A. E. Newman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:29:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe Hartley Subject: Re: Abstinence and Rock and Roll > From: "Michael Cox" > > I had to laugh out loud at Mr. Hartley's amazingly naive call for Rock and > Roll Prohibition. I had to laugh out loud at Mr. Cox's inability to comprehend what he reads. > Of course a musician shouldn't be falling down drunk when they play. But I > certainly relax and play better with a couple of beers in me. Rock and roll > isn't for choirboys. I never said it was. I don't care what a musician takes or drinks unless the result is an inability to perform. > Let me get this straight. You would ask for your money back if Jaco > Pastorious was a little tipsy, but not if Mr. Fripp walked out in > mid-performance? Talk about pretzel logic. Jaco wasn't a little bit tipsy - he was falling-down drunk. And I didn't have to ask for my money back at that gig, since the promoter realized that there was no way to morally take anyone's money for the "show." And for what it's worth, if Fripp ever walked out of a performance I was attending, I would be asking for my money back. Fripp can choose to not perform; his choice has to have consequences, though - in this case, a reduction in his payment, based on whatever part of the performance he did not complete. (I'd be a bit more generous with a partial performance than with someone hired to paint my house and left it half undone!) Just because someone is a musician doesn't mean that they should get paid whether they do the job or not. If you think that anybody deserves your cash for a show even when they pass out 20 minutes into it (like the RootBoy Slim show I saw - and got a refund for), then fine. For what it's worth, I've never been refused a refund when I asked, given the state of the performer. It's a matter of degrees, Michael. I'm not talking about shows that were a little spotty, but what happens down at the extreme end of the scale. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 19:39:18 +0200 From: Anne Kwik Subject: thanks to the poster who advised Uz jsme doma Hi, I would like to thank the poster who - some time ago - advised the czech band 'Uz jsme doma', from whom I never heard of before. I just recently went to Prague, and bought a CD from them there, which is called 'Pohadky ze zapotrebi'. The title means 'fairy tales from necessity' and also the cover reminds me a little bit of King Crimsons (and other 'prog rock') covers of the early 70ies. The music is really great - thank you very much. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 15:48:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Wasser Dan Subject: Which Tool? In hopes that KC comes to the DC area, again, and in case Tool is with them, which Tool CD would you recommend so that I can become halfway familiar with them? I don't know how many CDs they've recorded but I guess I'd prefer that you recommend a CD that, you feel, they might be playing at the concert. So, if that means their recently-released one, so be it. But, if you think one of their CDs, in particular, would be more enjoyable, recommend that, too. As an analogy, you wouldn't, necessarily recommend LTIA or ITCOTCK or Discipline to a Tool fan because KC will, obviously, be playing songs from TCOL and the upcoming CD. Private reply is fine unless Toby feels that your answer would benefit other ETers. [ Private email, please -- Toby ] Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 21:39:14 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Two Loons For Tea A co-worker of mine pointed me to the Web site for a band called Two Loons For Tea (http://www.twoloons.com/) which appears to be a band that both Trey Gunn and Pat Mastelotto have contributed to. Has anyone heard this band and have any comments on them? Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 23:07:16 -0400 From: "Jay Black" Subject: kc/tool I trust that Tool is openning for KC, and not the other way around. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 02:47:14 -0400 From: "Bryan Adams" Subject: Re: KC Tool and Primus Regurading the Tool and Primus comparisons, these are some thoughts off the top of my head: Well, the entire Aenima album, and the improv off of the "Salival" live disc called "Merkaba" would be good examples for Tool. I would say the comparison with Tool comes from the overall feel of the music. Tool and KC tend to like the artier, darker side of rock. Also having heard a couple of things off their up comming album "Lateralus", I would say that there will be even more comparisons between the two. As for Primus, I would say their influence comes more from the 80's era of KC. Les Claypool is a fantastic bassist, with (I would say) a heavy Tony Levin influence. This can definately be heard on his latest release with his "Fearless Flying Frog Brigade" where he and his band do a wonderful cover of "Thela Hun Ginjeet". Les Claypool is also characterized by a quierky sense of humor in his lyrics, this could possibly be an Adrian influence as well. Some Songs for Primus: Too Many Puppies (Larks Tongue Pt. 1 like intro) Hamburger Train The Pressman Spegetti Western Both of these bands exhibit fantastic musicianship, and are well worth looking into. Cheers, Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:10:43 +0100 From: "C McG" Subject: The Howling >"The Howling" is a cheesy werewolf flick. The image of a werewolf smothered head to toe in melted cheddar is going to haunt me all day. Thanks. Going to see Terry Bozzio play solo drums tonight. Woohoo. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 05:24:48 -0400 From: mike at duophone dot com (mike) Subject: K.C. influence in Tool "On this subject, I have seen comparisons to KC on behalf of both TOOL and Primus. Can any readers suggest albums/tracks by these two bands that would illustrate the comparison?" Well for one thing, listen to the first verse of "H". It's the third track on Tool's Aenima. The guitar work AND the drumming sound like they were actually TRYING to put the Discipline album feel on it. Listen to "jimmy" and "Third Eye" off the same album. The drumming, although original, does show much bruford influence. Third Eye also has a guitar solo that doesn't necessarily SOUND like Fripp, but then again it does from a certain perspective. Give them a listen. "Forty Six & Two" contains quite a few rhythmic motifs that remind me of "Frame by Frame" for some reason. It also contains a drum solo, which is backed by guitar and bass repeating a line, and Adam or Justin will occasionally drop or add a note, like Fripp and Adrian do in FBF or "Discipline". I can't tell any Bruford influence in the drum solo, but I can tell that dana carey likes prog... alot. Either that or he does alot of acid and listens to good jazz... if anyone else can pick anything out, please, do it!!! Mike "this is my signature" Britt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:09:48 +1200 From: David Maclennan Subject: KC/Tool King Crimson SUPPORTING Tool? Ought to be the other way around if there was any justice in this world! But if it exposes some younger ears to our favourite band, then it can't do any harm. Only wish NZ was on the itinerary (yeah, and pigs might fly....) David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 07:01:51 -0400 From: Michael Kelly Subject: Birdsongs Of the Mesozoic Delurking for a moment to recommend the latest CD from Birdsongs of the Mesozoic titled "Petrophonics". This is a 20 year old band that evolve out of the punk band Mission of Burma. They have been described as "The Worlds Hardest Rocking Chamber Music Quartet" which I think is accurate. They play everything from Stravinsky to Sombre Reptiles to the Rocky and Bullwinkle Theme, all with a distinctly "crafty" feel. I think they would be a great double bill with KC! Saw them last weekend - great show! No, I am not affiliated with the band - just a listener. You can check them out at www.birdsongsofthemesozoic.com. mlk relurking ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 07:13:44 -0500 From: Steve Marshall Subject: KC Tribute We have a review for this CD (it's called Schizoid Dimension) online at The Night Owl. You can find it by clicking on the search button, or scrolling to the 'various artists' section of the review index... Steve Steve Marshall Editor - The Night Owl stevem at thenightowl dot com The best place on the web for music reviews Member - National Music Critics Association ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #835 ********************************