Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #830 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 830 Friday, 27 April 2001 Today's Topics: NEWS: KC related releases Classical and Prog, Wetton and Grips, Adrian and Opinions rusty toads??? Making Room for the 24 bit remasters Re: Prog Rock from Venezuela Guitar-Pick John Wetton Sweet novembre... I have just recieved my Print from Tony's Limited Edition Fripp Print more Tool & KC rumor? Live in Mainz - March 30, 1974 Celtic knotwork on Remastered Discipline Blue Nights Reviewed in March 2001 "The Wire" Magazine RF to tour with JB/Tool Of all the little things... King Crimson Movie ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 13:11:20 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: NEWS: KC related releases Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Here are some excerpts for Crimson fans. Available now from DGM Bill Bruford's Earthworks/The Sound of Surprise Following a gruelling, profitable, well organised and frequently hilarious 18 date tour of the UK, covering, remarkably, some 3000 miles, Bill took the band into Livingston Studios in London for four days to record " The Sound of Surprise". With essentially the same team as recorded "A Part and yet Apart", the new CD has nine full-blooded tracks of hard-hitting acoustic jazz weighing in at some 63 minutes, and represents the fruit of some 9 months focussed endeavour, with work starting on the writing in January 2000. soundbite The Rosenbergs/Mission: You The highly anticipated debut album from the power pop band that turned so many heads last year. Their much publicized dispute with Farm Club, and the ensuing support from Tina Weymouth from Talking Heads/Tom Tom Club (who sings backing vocals on the album) catapulted them into th elimelight. After this media circus Robert Fripp & DGM approached them carving out what the Los Angeles Times heralded as nothing less than a "new model for the business." Right now The Rosenbergs are letting their gem-filled, hooky anthemic power-pop album do the talking. Also, some of you have asked when the jewel case versions of the remastered Crimson albums will be coming out. As it so happens, the following four are now available: King Crimson/In the Court of the Crimson King (jewel case version) King Crimson/In the Wake of Poseidon (jewel case version) King Crimson/Lizard (jewel case version) King Crimson/Islands (jewel case version) New releases from Voiceprint and associated labels Keith Tippett/Blueprint Keith Tippetts 1972 album "Blueprint" is a complete contrast to the big band explosion of the highly acclaimed Centipede which was his previous release. Blueprint is a small chamber piece hovering somewhere between music and silence. Although the initial calm of the album is baffling, Tippett and the other musicians take a microscope to music examining the details to be found in the small inner worlds which exist between the notes and the players and the listener. If Centipede's "Septober Energy" was principally Keith Tippett's vision of what a Jazz orchestra might achieve then the key to Blueprint lies in its democratic, collective view of playing. Tippett, with bassist Roy Babbington, drummer and percussionists Keith Bailey and Frank Perry, along with his wife and vocalist, Julie, laid down a series of improvisations in London's Command Studios over a couple of days. Working quickly and without fuss the team (with King Crimson's Robert Fripp in attendance as a trusted pair of ears) produced a series of clean, uncluttered pieces which are possessed with a disarming simplicity. If this suggests an album of spartan, earnest austerity then prepared to be surprised. Emerging from the shimmering gossamer of bells and tones (alternately provided by Bailey and Perry) are moments of crystalline beauty where traces of haunting ballads are fleetingly outlined, underscored by Babbington's poignant, inquisitive bass. It is hard not to be impressed as one hears Julie Tippetts conjuring a haunting half-song from the air. The urgency with which she issues her breathless dispatches is nothing short of thrilling. They glide and soar in a cascading gush of hybrid syntax, twisting and turning the ensemble in unexpected directions. Unbound, uncompromising and free of stylistic constraints this is music of real commitment and humility. Historically, "Blueprint" marked the passage of a truly gifted player and the musicians of his choice, moving from one area of interest to another, and in doing so, laid the foundations for what would become Ovary Lodge and beyond. soundbite - forthcoming import releases you'll find at : WETTON,JOHN-ANTHOLOGY Classic anthology from vocalist & bassist John Wetton (former member of Asia, King Crimson, Roxy Music, UK, Uriah Heep, Wishbone Ash, Jack Knife & Family). Guest artists include Phil Manzera (Roxy Music), Simon Kirke (Free), Kevin Godley (10CC), Simon Philips (The Who) & Alan White (Yes & John Lennon). 17 tracks including, 'Caught In The Crossfire' & 'Battle Lines'. And now tour dates for Bill Bruford's Earthworks which you'll find at BILL BRUFORD'S EARTHWORKS U.S. TOUR SUMMER 2001 "THE SOUND OF SURPRISE" Patrick Clahar Saxophones Steve Hamilton Piano Mark Hodgson Bass Bill Bruford Drums May 29 SCULLER'S, BOSTON 30 BOTTOM LINE, NYC 31 BOTTOM LINE, NYC June 1 MAGIC BAG, FERNDALE, DETROIT 2 MARTYR'S, CHICAGO 3 SHANK HALL, MILWAUKEE 4 DAKOTA BAR AND GRILL, MINNEAPOLIS ST. PAUL 5 JAZZ ALLEY,SEATTLE 6 JAZZ ALLEY, SEATTLE 7 PORTLAND, TBA 8 CATALINA'S BAR AND GRILL, LOS ANGELES 9 CATALINA'S BAR AND GRILL, LOS ANGELES 10 CATALINA'S BAR AND GRILL, LOS ANGELES 11 KUUMBWA JAZZ CENTRE, SANTA CRUZ 12 YOSHI'S, SAN FRANCISCO 13 YOSHI'S, SAN FRANCISCO Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:09:19 -0000 From: "lawrence moseley" Subject: Classical and Prog, Wetton and Grips, Adrian and Opinions Hi all, Some observations: 1. Often rock music has been wanting credibibilty with classical, as classical (ie acooustic orchestral) music is somehow better. In terms of compositional depth, difficulty (performing skill), listener requirements (listening skills)this music is way ahead of 95 to 99% of almost all popular music (lowest common denominator, path of least resistance. So, we prog fans have prog music. Is this a substitute/ alternative (??) for classical listening? What are the differences? Drums, abundance of electricity and technology, lyrics (sometimes not), groups of writers and onstage and LP cover images. so some differences? Classical benefits from technology as do most of us. Drum rhythms, prog has some of the greatest rhythm sections, and rhythm soloists ever. still can't play a dance track. (80s Crim, nearly.)This is not the point of head oriented music, try listening to loads of waltzes to see what I mean. Does this make prog or rock less than classical? If so why listen to prog rock? Why not commit, go the whole hog and listen to orchestral music? Simply, we are already. The language dialect is different but the song remains the same. (I'm still a huge Zep fan, also great progressive music...as long as prog is an adjective and not a noun...) Mozart's 40th is a modern rock album side, by 70s, 80s rock elpee standards. Great opening riff first track and 3 more difficult to access tracks, enjoyable on further listening. each about 5 minutes and filled a LP side so well.Is this prog? It is not pop, but nor is prog. Lyrics and singers occur in classical oeuvre, within opera for a start. Brahms has some great melodies (awful lyrics that probably suffered in the translation) but great sung and played melodies. Aside: Classical music image could and maybe should be a little less dull and formulaic with that musical forms presentation. Roger Dean and Hipgnosis (sorry for misspelling) covers on Tchaikovsky albums. Why not? The constant pushing of relax themes and end of tiring day is very middle aged (target audience is perceived as unimaginative dull 50+something's. Surely as patronising as pop corporate formats with their incessant and tiresome youth theme double standards. Unlike any other popular music progressive rock requires it's audience to accept the music on musical merits alone. It has this in common with classical, (very image negative in trendy terms as ever, still common factors here...) So the point of this? It used to be rock fans wanting the respectability of classical which has musical integrity in spades as we know. But what about looking at this from another view point. Can classical have the compatibility to compare with the best rock has to offer? Perhaps not in performance or immediacy impact terms, this is not an orchestras function. They are there to perform music. So is KC, Yes and anyone else who bands together to play instruments to express themselves and find their audience as opposed to appealing to a market. Neither classical nor prog does this (business talks units, that is it's function, don't get depressed at business terms in music, just also don't get the two confused...) Prog has such great musical cred. So does classical. Waht more does anyone want? I think we're already there. We don't need a certificate. In LP terms, its in the grooves. Now. Wetton and booze. To the chap who says get a grip, this is rock not the Philhamonic. First I refer you to the above. Bum notes anywhere sound awful. With rock and jazz you might get away with a mistake through improvisation. It is still a mistake. Certainly if the audience hears it you are not doing your job. 1) People paid money and expect a return. drunken incompetence by a talented musician is not an expected return. 2) Why patronise an audience who get annoyed at their expectations, trip, whatever being brought up short by boozy behaviour. 3) My employer would not appreciate me being drunk on the job. Nor should anyone relying on someone else's performance. Apologies for this, Toby delete if you want but the point comes at the end.. Those people saying Adrian Belew should not be in KC. Ok first, this sort of chat has been happening in pubs and lounges and music rooms for ever! this is not new, there are worse things discussed and may favourites are often discussed in disparaging terms. Being the Internet and comparatively new, in writing these terms become clearer and more relevant to the consciousness...ie it is WRITTEN not just said and forgotten in heated debate. You can reread and reinterpret. Never has any artist or act had such proximity to various opinions. They're out there and the web brings them in here. Adrian , don't be depressed at this. it's the usual crap and I along with all your other listeners want to hear more. TCOL on Heavy Construction is so amazing... Anyway, thanks for letting me express/ indulge myself. I needed that. My regards to all at KC, ET, DGM and the audience. LAM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:37:42 -0400 From: "dennis wiens" Subject: rusty toads??? Tim Jones posts on ET#828 >>"I saw the Peter Gabriel tour featuring a semi-concealed Fripp at the Liverpool Empire in 1977 - Peter Gabriel introduced RF as "Rusty Toads" on that night !!!"<< >>"[ Amazing, I was at that gig too. -- Toby ]"<< Fripp has stated in past documents that Gabriel introduced him as "Dusty Rhodes." [not Roads] Did Peter change a little for the Liverpool gig ... and possibly others ? or did it come across as sounding like "Rusty Toads?" That's kind of funny if he changed things. Actually .. the whole thing is kind of humorous. According to the letter that Fripp wrote, he said he would play behind a curtain or backdrop and when Peter would introduce him [as the above mentioned], he would stick his head out from his concealment to wave at the crowd. I also find it ironic that since Fripp, Peter's main man at the guitar is actually named Rhodes ...... ... or is it ? ...... Things that make me go Hmmmmmmmm....... Best regards Dennis Wiens ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:55:16 EDT From: AlfredDodson at aol dot com Subject: Making Room for the 24 bit remasters Hey Everybody I'm selling my Definitive edition remasters 1989 for $8.00 a piece. Here's what you can get: 1. Larks' Tongues In Aspic 2. Starless And Bible Black 3. Red 4. Discipline 5. Beat 6. Three Of A Perfect Pair If anybody is interested email me privately at alfreddodson at aol dot com Thanks, aKd ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 03:53:48 -0000 From: "Daniel Branco P." Subject: Re: Prog Rock from Venezuela HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Greetings from Venezuela What goes up on the street? In #828, Adrian wrote about a "Tempano" CD, called "Childhood`s End". Im my opinion, "Tempano" is the best group I`ve ever heard in Venezuela. It's highly recommended. The first CD of "Tempano" (Atabal-Yemal) was also the first prog rock disk in Venezuela. In 1999, Tempano played with Yes, when they came to this land. I am excited to know that my favorite venezuelan band is heard in other lands. You can also visit www.pedrocastillo.com . Pedro is the founder and the leader of "Tempano". I recommend "Tempano" very highly. Another thing, related to this: can you, people of other lands, tell me about other venezuelan bands, don't care if they're rock or they're noy, that you heard in your lands? Thanks Peace Bye "......nothing, nothing goes up" PD: Have I a bad English? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 04:10:56 +0200 From: Breternitz-Voerde at t-online dot de Subject: Guitar-Pick Dear Sir! I`m a collector of guitar picks & finger-picks and I already have about 870 picks of famous rock & country stars. Although I am a great fan of King Crimson I didn't have the chance to see King Crimson live in concert and ask the Guitar-Player for a guitar pick personally. If you mail me your address I would like to send you a return envelope for a guitar pick of King Crimson. If the name of the guitar player is not printed on the pick it would be very nice if he could have signed it. In case this is not the right address to write to you could please send the letter to the right place or let me know the address to write to. Thank you for your efforts in advance. My address: Jochen Breternitz Postfach 201144 46553 Voerde Germany E-mail: Breternitz-Voerde at t-online dot de Sincerely Yours (Jochen Breternitz) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 14:27:29 +0100 From: "bott" Subject: John Wetton I have been away for a few weeks and have returned to the debate regarding John Wetton. I have not heard the new CD yet, but will undoubtably be buying it. I saw him for the first time at the Deby Flowerpot gig in March this year. It was a great homecoming for a great Derbyshire lad (John, I hope you read this!) Yes, Heart of Darkness is a little loose as yet, but this was the only moment. After the gig I informed my wife she had just been listening to the music of a member of King Crimson. She was amazed. She had liked it, in fact she went as far as to say it was the second best gig I had taken her to in our 14 years together (John, I hope you read this too!) Red was blistering, Easy Money huge, and Starless blew me away. But then again, so did all the UK, Asia and solo stuff. John has moved on in the interim 25 years, but his fondness and debt to his Crim years is evident. John was brilliant, as was his band. A great gig, a great talent, and a shame he is now laying such low key gigs when he deserves auditoria. If you get the chance, check him out (and I'm not just being sycophantic!) Andy Bott Derby's premier Crimhead. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:38:39 GMT+1 From: Dave Brideau Subject: Sweet novembre... Did somebody noticed how the song "only time" of ENYA sound so perfectly the same as "prelude songs of the gulls" on the Island album! it is just amazing! that exactly the same thing! i'd just like to now if anybody have heard about it? tanx! Dave Boite aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:49:49 EDT From: TheSwid at aol dot com Subject: I have just recieved my Print from Tony's Limited Edition Fripp Print I know that some of you have heard that Tony Levin is selling (at his web site: Link to Tony's Print ) a limited edition hand colored print from a picture that he had taken of Robert Fripp in Milan, 1982 & was featured in Tony Levin's 1985 book "Road Photos" as a B&W print. Well, I just got my print in the mail yesterday & I must say that this is something very special. Rich detailed colors on a ragged edge heavy paper. Check it out! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 02:16:06 EDT From: Gershfam3 at aol dot com Subject: more Tool & KC rumor? Is it just my wacky friend making up stories or is KC really opening up for Tool next month (ie. Hammerstein Ballroom, NYC, May 20th) for a few warm-up gigs? He said he saw this "confirmed" on a Tool website; wish i knew which one. All best, BJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:21:50 +0200 From: leif dot myhrer at seb dot se Subject: Live in Mainz - March 30, 1974 Another great CC recording. But my CD abrupt ends at about 7:50 in the final track 10, Easy money. Is this intentionally because tape run out etc. or is it a problem on my CD? There is no note about it in the booklet and some quick browsing at DGM couldn't give me the answer either. Can anyone confirm if my CD is correct or not. Anyone know the complete track list for that evening? Regards leif dot myhrer at seb dot se ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:09:06 -0400 From: "Fuentes, Jose A" Subject: Celtic knotwork on Remastered Discipline Does anybody know why the Celtic knotwork on the new remastered Discipline cover is different than the one on the previous Discipline releases? Jose ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:08:08 -0400 From: "Green, Noah" Subject: Blue Nights Reviewed in March 2001 "The Wire" Magazine "The Wire," which is a pretty with-it and ecelectic alt-rock magazine, has a nice review of Blue Nights. I'm not sure what copyright restrictions are, so I'm not going to type it in, unless I get a response in this newsletter saying it's ok to do it, in which case I will. The review was favorable, although I both agree and disagree with the following phrase: "If KC is less characterful without rock's most inventive rhythm section, the Bruford and Levin's Upper Extremities quartet . . . is the force to be reckoned with." Obviously I disagree with the first part, but agree with the second. :-) Noah Green Senior Software Engineer ThinAirApps, Inc. (212) 343-5032 noah dot green at thinairapps dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:53:13 +0200 From: brian dot champion at philips dot com Subject: RF to tour with JB/Tool Listening to Radio2 (how provincial is that) last night as I was dozing off, and who should pop up in an interview on the Richard Allinson show, but Toyah. After talking for a while about her current projects, RA asked about her husband and was she able to see much of him recently. Her reply was that she was not currently as Robert was working preparing for US tours with Jeff Beck and then Tool. "Time for bed" said Zebedee Brian the Snail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:59:21 +0200 From: "Marcus Enochsson" Subject: Of all the little things... ...that one may notice, I have noticed what aspires to be one of the silliest things that one may bring up for debate, pondering and/or verbal slaughter on a King Crimson forum like this one. But what the heck, I want your attention, whether you are willing to give it to me or not, and as I can't demand your all of your autographs I will pollute your mail inboxes with this pestering post. Ahem... Now on to the IMPORTANT stuff: Of the gatefold remasters I have purchased Lizard and S&BB so far. An evening not many nights ago I realized in horror that the Lizard back was up side down - or left side right, so to speak/write. That is, when looking at the back (English is not my native language, so to clarify, I mean the 1/4 inch times 4-5 inches side of the CD case where the title and band name is written - geeze, now I feel even sillier for clarifying that...), "King Crimson Lizard" is written with letters pointing left, while almost all other CDs I have (incl. all KC ones) have the title/group written, pointing right. As you probably guess, this have caused me great concern and I have entered a severe crisis including features such as insomnia, heavy beer consumption and excessive soccer watching. I do not know how to handle the overwhelming worries that this phenomena showes upon me. I wonder if any of you other wise ETers may shed some light on the matter. Could it be that it's a French edition that I bought? I did buy it in Paris, but I thought the CDs are pressed in Japan - or am I wrong? Otherwise - great to see that the KC beast is moving again. I'm amazed to see how two of my fave bands currently are producing top quality music with a speed that monkeys in a cage on coffeine pills couldn't exceed. I am talking about The Flower King Crimsons, and don't give a shit about my earlier longings for the 70s. MAN, THE GREATEST TIME OF ALL IS NOW!!! Cheers etc, Your always more then equally sincere Marcus Enochsson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 23:44:39 -0500 From: "Kade" Subject: King Crimson Movie From what Fripp is saying about the KC bio in the works, sounds like Sid Smith has the makings of a movie script on his hands as well! Perhaps this is why Fripp was working with Jeff Fayman a couple weeks ago? They are really working on the soundtrack for the future movie. Who would they cast for the roles though? Hmmmmmmmmm.......... Kade ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #830 ********************************