Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #809 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 809 Sunday, 4 March 2001 Today's Topics: Crimson related releases HELP! I need some suggestions about how to get through to DGM Re: Hammond Song Re: The Roches and The Master Hammill, poetry & litterature Defending Ade -- Again ITTTW Info - Ian MacDonald vs Ian McDonald CONTINUED Frame by Frame Box sighted Fayman and Fripp CD for sale All this Adrian talk. McDonald/MacDonald + Ro(a)ches Another Tronto MkII Announcement off topic - real video Roches Erratum Prog Rock Top 10 Top 10 Prog Bands... Disappointing.. ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 13:05:46 -0500 From: Gary Davis Subject: Crimson related releases Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Meanwhile, here are some excerpts for King Crimson fans. Coming soon on our Discipline page Bill Bruford's Earthworks/The Sound of Surprise Bill Bruford's Earthworks/The Sound of Surprise +1 (Japanese) Following a gruelling, profitable, well organised and frequently hilarious 18 date tour of the UK, covering, remarkably, some 3000 miles, Bill took the band into Livingston Studios in London for four days to record " The Sound of Surprise". With essentially the same team as recorded "A Part and yet Apart", the new CD has nine full-blooded tracks of hard-hitting acoustic jazz weighing in at some 63 minutes, and represents the fruit of some 9 months focussed endeavour, with work starting on the writing in January 2000. The Japanese release will also have an extra bonus track, as appears to be the custom, and at time of writing it is proposed that this enhanced CD will also include footage of the band live in concert. Available now from Musea Dificil Equilibrio/Trayecto The band : this Spanish band, based around Barcelona, released a first album in 1997, and then an album of King Crimson covers; the guitarist A.Diaz moreover was a disciple of Fripp in Guitar Craft courses. "Trayecto" is their third album. The music: directly inspired by King Crimson (essentially the 74-82 eras), this brilliant trio (guitar/bass/drums, with some additional sax for one piece) delivers 11 instrumental pieces; they may be considered as "experimental music" in the best meaning of the word, although they remain, in many way, easy to listen to. These very constructed and controlled songs, led by distorted guitars, reveal a devastating energy and power, coupled with some peaceful moments. Just great stuff! soundbite - Coming soon from Voiceprint Keith Tippett/Blueprint Keith Tippetts 1972 album "Blueprint" is a complete contrast to the big band explosion of the highly acclaimed Centipede which was his previous release. Blueprint is a small chamber piece hovering somewhere between music and silence. Although the initial calm of the album is baffling, Tippett and the other musicians take a microscope to music examining the details to be found in the small inner worlds which exist between the notes and the players and the listener. If Centipede's "Septober Energy" was principally Keith Tippett's vision of what a Jazz orchestra might achieve then the key to Blueprint lies in its democratic, collective view of playing. Tippett, with bassist Roy Babbington, drummer and percussionists Keith Bailey and Frank Perry, along with his wife and vocalist, Julie, laid down a series of improvisations in London's Command Studios over a couple of days. Working quickly and without fuss the team (with King Crimson's Robert Fripp in attendance as a trusted pair of ears) produced a series of clean, uncluttered pieces which are possessed with a disarming simplicity. If this suggests an album of spartan, earnest austerity then prepared to be surprised. Emerging from the shimmering gossamer of bells and tones (alternately provided by Bailey and Perry) are moments of crystalline beauty where traces of haunting ballads are fleetingly outlined, underscored by Babbington's poignant, inquisitive bass. It is hard not to be impressed as one hears Julie Tippetts conjuring a haunting half-song from the air. The urgency with which she issues her breathless dispatches is nothing short of thrilling. They glide and soar in a cascading gush of hybrid syntax, twisting and turning the ensemble in unexpected directions. Unbound, uncompromising and free of stylistic constraints this is music of real commitment and humility. Historically, "Blueprint" marked the passage of a truly gifted player and the musicians of his choice, moving from one area of interest to another, and in doing so, laid the foundations for what would become Ovary Lodge and beyond. On our import pre-order page at WETTON,JOHN-SINISTER 2001 studio album for the Asia, U.K. vocalist, one of the classic voices of British rock music. Additional artists include Robert Fripp and Ian McDonald (King Crimson), Steve Hackett (Genesis), John Young (Asia/Qango), Martin Orford (IQ/Jadis) and John Mitchell (Arena). Tracks include, 'Heart Of Darkness', 'No Ordinary Miracle' and 'Second Best'. And now general imports that have recently been released which you'll find at : HACKETT,STEVE & FRIENDS-LIVE DVD Live DVD release for the former Genesis guitarist who went on to form GTR. Asian NTSC/All Code DVD. This is the Tokyo Tapes performance which features John Wetton and Steve Hackett. Songs performed include I Talk to the Wind and Court of the Crimson King. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:51:09 -0500 (EST) From: HarlequinSound at webtv dot net (Jason Peterson) Subject: HELP! I need some suggestions about how to get through to DGM Hi guys, I used to contriute often to this list but have only been a lurker for the past few years. ANYWAY I need some suggestions. I am a paid member of KCCC. I have subscribed and resubscribed a total of 3 times. The most recent was in November of last year. When I Received CC#13 there was a note in it saying that because I hadn't resubbed, I wouldn't receive #14. I ignored the note because I had just resubscribed a few weeks earlier. Well now all of you (who are members of the CClub) have #14 and mine has not arrived. I have been trying for weeks to get some kind of response from the DGM offices. I even sent an email asking if they had gotten my messages - NO REPLY (at all). I would thing that customers who gladly plop down $96 to support this organization (and love them for releasing this material) would at least send a short note saying something like "we got your message and we are working on the problem". But I get nothing. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON WHAT TO DO NEXT? Thanks Jason Peterson Harlequin Sound and Design *********************************************************** "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it doesn't go away" Philip K. Dick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:43:52 +0000 From: Graeme dot Hardie at marconi dot com Subject: Re: Hammond Song The Roches (note spelling) are alive and well and will tell you more than you ever thought necessary at http://www.roches.com. Fripp produced their first album in addition to playing on it. Graeme Hardie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:34:32 -0500 From: Bob Pascarella Subject: Re: The Roches and The Master jfournet wrote: >Recently I discovered a band called "The Roaches" Great story about the Roches. As far as I know, the sisters were not originally from Hammond Louisiana, but only lived there shortly while studying Martial Arts and waiting on tables. They later moved to New York and began performing at Kenny's Castaway's on Bleeker St. This was a GREAT club that I had fequented often when I lived in NY and I often wonder if it is still in business. Anyway..Fripp and The Roches were both signed to Warner Bros at that time. This might have brought them to his attention and he actually sought them out at this night club. You know..Mr. Fripp is actually a VERY nice person, despite his reputation. Charming, funny and always helpful. I'm sure the synergy was quite natural between Fripp and the Roche sisters even though they were miles apart in genre. Fripp brought in Tony Levin and Larry Fast to work on the record he produced for them. Talk about being a nice guy! Larry actually stayed on with the group for several records later. Fripp also produced and performed on The Roches 2nd record called "Keep on Doing" with none other than Levin and Bruford. I'm sure the girls felt quite fortunate to have made a friend in Robert Fripp. As I also am. Robert Pascarella ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:44:21 +0100 From: "Bruno" Subject: Hammill, poetry & litterature Hello you ETers ! I remember having read somewhere that Hammill had wrote a few things besides the songs we know. Could be some novel or that kind of stuff... Does someone know about this ? Well, I guess that if this stuff even exists, it might be hard to find ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 22:11:08 From: "Cedric Hendrix" Subject: Defending Ade -- Again Hey All, Allow me to ride to the rescue, in defense of my favorite frontman. Interesting comments were made re: his voice, and replacing him with Ric Ocasek (I will address THAT in one word -- NO!). Before you write Ade off, please keep the following things in mind, while listening to "Heavy ConstruKction:" * This record was recorded not long after the band learned these tunes, so they probably weren't 100 percent comfortable with them. With time comes confidence, and a stronger all-around sound, including the vocal. (Witness the full on train-wrecks in Nashville, and the occasional fender-bender in HC.) * Ade's vocals were multi-tracked or effected throughout most of TCoL. This is a simple thing to do in a studio, but not on stage. Not without using effects, anyway, which would give ETers something else to gripe about. *Ade's usual backup vocalist, Tony Levin, was not with them. This eliminated the possibility of a harmony vocal. *Ade was very ill during part of the tour, leading to the cancelation of a couple of shows. This may or may not have affected the sound of his voice on some of these tunes. *These are serious musicians, playing serious music. But it IS music. And one of the great things about music is that it's FUN. So what if there are a couple of silly songs? I'm glad to see this band start to display a sense of humor, and not take themselves too seriously (though I don't really think they ever did -- that's OUR doing). ProjeKct X is loaded with funny -- albeit subtle -- moments. I won't suggest that you move on, but I AM tempted. This is the band. Love 'em or leave 'em. It's up to you. In the meantime, give Adrian a break, and enjoy the tunes. Peace, Ced ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:38:26 +0100 From: "Grzegorz Hajduk" Subject: ITTTW Info - Ian MacDonald vs Ian McDonald CONTINUED Ian McDonald on the alterantive version of ITTTW is definitely Ian of Crimson fame, and Judy Dyble is definitely Judy of Fairport fame. Both of them joined Giles, Giles & Fripp trio about June of 1968, but Judy left after few weeks. It was mostly personal affair: her relationship with Ian McDonald (of Crimson fame) broke up. She was replaced by Peter Sinfield shortly afterwards. At the early seventies Judy sang and played in folk-rock duo Treader Horne (the co-member was Them's Jackie McAuley). They recorded the only one album in 1970 "Morning Way" released by Janus Records, re-released recently on cd by italian Akarma Records - AK 087, with two sp tunes as bonus tacks. It's probably the only record of her, but later she sang on Richard Thompson's and Ashley Hutching's LPs (both of them ex-Fairport members). Iain "Matthews" MacDonald (Fairport member) wasn't multi-instrumentalist as Ian McDonald, and after leaving Fairports he formed and sang on "Matthews Southern Comfort" (fame of cover Joni Mitchell's "Woodstock"), and then went solo. There is the question: who is playing bagpipes on Phil Manzanera's "Diamond Head" LP? On the cover is written: Iain MacDonald, and the face on foto isn't alike to Ian of Crimson fame (but is so small that you can't be sure). Grzegorz Hajduk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:18:24 -0500 From: "Randall G. Alley" Subject: Frame by Frame Box sighted Let me know if anyone needs one in the USA. Near Raleigh, NC specifically. Randy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 07:25:36 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Fayman and Fripp CD for sale Hello, I have a copy of Fayman and Fripp "A Temple in the Clouds" available for $8 (postage included to the US). If you're interested, drop me a line at kevin at minds-eye dot org Thanks Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:59:44 -0500 From: "Brian O'Connell" Subject: All this Adrian talk. I'm sorry folks but Adrian Belew is a genius. An amazing, powerful and emotional singer, a consummate performer, and gifted song writer and a unique/groundbreaking voice on the electric guitar. I saw a post recently that said King Crimson should have Ric Ocasek as a replacement for Adrian. Of all the crazy things that I've read on this board, that one takes the cake. Marty, are you kidding? I mean, really? As far as I'm concerned, if you don't like Adrian, you don't like Crimson. Open up your ears. -Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:05:04 +0000 From: Mr Tea Subject: McDonald/MacDonald + Ro(a)ches This from "Mark Stansbery" in ET 807 > The post from Mr. Tea (ET #806) doesn't outright say, but it makes me wonder. > Am I in error? Was it Judy's buddy from Fairport? No, Mark, it wasn't. Sorry for any confusion. The Ian MacDonald who was in the original Fairport lineup with Judy Dyble is, of course, unrelated to the Ian McDonald who joined KC with Judy in '68 & subsequently bought his chum Pete Sinfield into the mix. (My misspelling of the name in transcribing the track info didn't help). ~~~ This from "jfournet" in ET 807 > Recently I discovered a band called "The Roaches", a band conceived in the > late 70's... My questions are, what role did Fripp have in this band besides > his guest solo, what happened to these women, and is it true that they are > from Louisiana. Actually, JF, they were 'concieved' sometime before the late '70s, being three sisters - Terre, Maggie & Suzzy Roche. Their debut album, on which the track you mentioned ('Hammond Song') appears, was recorded during Fall 1978 at the Hit Factory in NY, and the whole album was produced by RF in 'Audio Verite'. It boasts some great tracks ('Damned Old Dog' is my fave), some restrained playing from RF, and Tony Levin contributed some bass. Maggie Roche, of course, appears to great effect on the track 'Mary' from Fripp's 'Exposure' solo set, recorded about the same time. The second album, 'Nerds', not produced by RF, was disappointing, & they put him back in the producer's seat for album 3 ('Keep on Doin' - 1982), which also features playing from RF, TL & Bill Bruford. It's a mixed bag, the standout track being a folk ballad, 'On the Road to Fairfax County'. After this, the girls moved away from their established, predominantly acoustic 'guitars 'n' harmonies' sound to a more rock orientated vibe, except on their 1990 Christmas Album 'We Three Kings'. This features some exquisite arrangements of traditional songs, along with some less exquisite moments, like the toe-curling rendition of 'Frosty the Snowman'. Other than this, their best 'post-Fripp' album is probably 'Speak' from 1989. I've seen nothing new from them since 1992's 'A Dove'. Is anyone aware of more recent recordings? Mr Tea -- Brew of the day: China Yunnan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 21:50:49 GMT From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: Another Tronto MkII Announcement The Second Announcement for Tronto MkII It is with great pleasure that I am now able to announce that our Guest of Honor for the workshop in September will be none other than Ian McDonald. Ian hardly needs an introduction to anyone interested in mellotrons since few people have had more impact. Indeed, ask most mellotroniacs what first caught their ears and made them realize what a magnificent sound a well-played and recorded mellotron can produce, and they will answer in one word: 'Epitaph'. Meet Ian and hear how they did it. More recently, Ian has brought out a fantastic solo album and toured with Steve Hackett and John Wetton, to name a few. This is your chance to meet one of the seminal influences of Progressive Rock. And a reminder that also on tap will be the fantastically talented, M. Pierre Veilleux, who will be bringing his MkV and giving a workshop on his keyboard modifications and playing technique. I will be giving a workshop on using the mellotron's different voices effectively featuring the nearly complete sound library of my newly restored MkII SFX Console (yes, it will be completely up and running and sounding fabulous). To be announced shortly will be the name of our guest engineer who will be discussing effective recording techniques. We also still have spaces for one or possibly two mellotrons for the Streetly Electronics Maintenance Workshop. These spaces are first come, first served, so contact me quickly! Don't forget the fabulous deals Streetly is offering to workshop attendees on tapes, frames, motor control circuits and other assorted goodies. You could even ask Ian to autograph your new tape set with Ian McDonald flute on it! Get in touch with me either by phone: (416) 782-3116 or by e-mail: rblechta at cuic dot ca if you would like to receive a registration form and join us here in Tronto. Dates are September 22 & 23. Cost is $145 Canadian or $95 US. Cheers! Rick Blechta ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 14:54:56 -0000 From: "Woody" Subject: off topic - real video sometime ago, somebody was talking about how you can download real player files (RAM), and store them on your computer for later viewing, without having to connect up to the server. if somebody has any info regarding this, couls they email me privately. thank you Woody @ Osmosis Productions pondering the unponderable, with pondering ponderality, in a preponderous ponderational ponder. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.230 / Virus Database: 111 - Release Date: 1/25/01 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 15:29:47 +0000 From: Mr Tea Subject: Roches Erratum In response to jfournet's question about the Roches in ET807 I referred to the band's self-titled 1978 album as their debut album. That's wrong, their first album was SEDUCTIVE REASONING, released in 1975. This, and loads of other Roches info is conveniently situated at www.roches.com. Mr Tea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 15:38:31 -0000 From: "mike mclaughlin" Subject: Prog Rock Top 10 Ok as a response to a request in an issue of ET I thought I'd give my own comments and a countdown on the Channel 4 Progressive Rock Top 10 Number 10 were Camel. Number 9 were King Crimson. Number 8 were Hawkwind. Number 7 were Rush. Number 6 were ELP. Number 5 were Jethro Tull. Number 4 were Yes. Number 3 were The Moody Blues. Number 2 were Genesis. Number 1 were Pink Floyd. Besides my disagreeing with this low placing of King Crimson there was some interesting Old Grey Whistle Test footage from the Wetton era band and from the Discipline era all of which I'd never seen (where can I see Old Grey Whistle Test re-runs in the UK?) the program spoke to John Wetton, Bill Bruford, and (briefly) to Robert Fripp and Toyah. All in all an interesting piece (they even mentioned Bryan Ferry's audition for the band) the footage they didn't show which I half expected was the live version of Cat Food (from Top Of The Pops) which I'm still waiting for the BBC to re-screen. All in all an interesting show well worth my time learning how to time record on my new VCR and arriving late at the pub(it's all about priorities). Anyhow that's all I can think of to say I may have got a few of the band's placings wrong but that's all the bands that were on the show. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 16:12:57 -0000 From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: Top 10 Prog Bands... Disappointing.. 10. Camel 9. KING CRIMSON (WHAT!!?) 8. Rush (who were awful) 7. Hawkwind (Not Prog Rock in any way, shape or form, just an excuse to show Stacia's breasts and some footage of Samantha Fox being a slut) 6. Emerson, Lake & Palmer (wahey) 5. Yes 4. Jethro Tull (er.. what?) 3. Moody Blues (Before they went pop/rock I think) 2. Genesis 1. Pink Floyd (which no one seemed to consider Prog Rock) It was done on chart success, which means that basically and Prog band turned pop act (Moody Blues/Genesis) and any rock band that was slightly strange (Pink Floyd) were at the top. The entire point of this program was to insult Prog Rock. You get the feeling that if they had interviewed Robert Fripp (which they hadn't, probably because he refused) for half an hour and he had said "and then EG sold the catalog without my consent to Virgin which was terrible" at some point, they would have found old footage of someone saying "King Crimson have released In The Court of The Crimson King "Which was terrible". They had interviews with John Wetton, Bill Bruford and Sid Smith (who had a beautiful Larks Tongues Mirror which I want!), and finished off with (after some 80s material) "Surprisingly, King Crimson are still going today". The pantsness of this program was evident when during the Yes spot, they didn't mention that Peter Banks was in it (apparently they instantly got Steve Howe) and never once mentioned Bill Bruford, even though they had already interviewed him for Crimson! They also cut off at 90125 and didn't even mention that they were still going. They ripped the piss out of the Moody Blues, who I love, but then again the footage was begging for it (Italian Waiter outfits, "Look Out, the Waiter's on Acid!"). Pink Floyd seemed to be praised as gods (with Noel Gallagher, who at the beginning of the program had said that it was all rubbish, saying "are they prog rock?") even though they are a rock band (not prog). Was there any need to have a pop legend at the beginning insult the genre? This is a show that should have been meant to celebrate it. Instead, prog rock got it's usual insulting, and basically if "a band makes a concept album they are prog". And by the way, where was Procol Harum??? If all you've heard is A Whiter Shade Of Pale and their last album (The Prodigal Stranger, 1991), then you are deeply mis informed to their prog rock nature. "In Held Twas In I" remains one of the best sides of an album ever made. Certainly more decent than the pathetic Rush (apparently Neil Peart is meant to be some amazing drummer, but all he was playing in that was 4/4 rhythm from pop songs... if this program has clouded my judgement of this band, someone please correct me). Yet more problems: after Crimson & Camel, the voiceover was constantly asking "but is it prog?" without any real answer. That's because most of them weren't!! I'll stop banging on now, but I'm just completely insulted. Although Fripp likes to believe Crimson aren't Prog (and by popular definition, they aren't), they are the very definition - Progressive. Crimson is the most progressive band in the world, not because they make endless concept albums, but because they progress! So those of you who didn't see it, you didn't miss much. There was some vintage footage of the band (including a live-in-the-studio playing of Starless I've never seen before, and the 80s crim on the Old Grey Whistle Test (to which the voiceover man mentioned Tony Levin on "thing".. DO SOME RESEARCH) but that was it. Probably better not to have seen it, at least then you could feel that good music was still vaguely appriciated. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #809 ********************************