Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #806 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 806 Saturday, 24 February 2001 Today's Topics: What's wrong with a Crimso documentary? Adrian Re: KCCC #14 Live At Plymouth Guildhall Deja Vroom DVD KCCC #12 Re: deja Vroom - Can't watch Tony's Road Movies let slyvian/fripp be sylvian/fripp Conversions? Another clue on trivia question the lady or the soundscape EXCLUSIVE KC related articles/competitions 1980s remasters now available ITTTW Info Island-era KCCC#14 / KCCC on Ebay / ITTTW ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 00:54:33 +0100 From: "AILEON" Subject: What's wrong with a Crimso documentary? Hi everyone! My name is Francisco and I've been reading ET a few months before posting anything, so please, don't be too harsh. Well, I don't know if you're aware of the release of "The Genesis songbook" a documentary about the process writting around many of Genesis songs, with this, it will be the second video retrospective about the band (the first, being "A history"). There's also a "rockumentary" about Yes ("Yesyears", in which you can see a few seconds of Crimso performing "Easy Money"). We all know Fripp's dislike about looking back at the past, but I think it would be great to have a DVD with interviews with Lake, Wetton, Gunn..with rare footage and stuff like that... By the way, does anyone know if there is gonna be any video release from last tour apart from the enhanced portion of "Heavy Construcktion"? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:05:38 -0500 From: "Martin Miron" Subject: Adrian I'm getting worried about Adrian. He sounds great in the studio but after listening to Heavy Construction, I think his natural voice sounds very thin live, at least for being a front man. And he's getting too silly. Humor is fine, but each new song is just sillier than the last. I think he was at his best backing David Bowie a few years ago. Somebody great in his spot would be Ric Ocasek. Think about it. And don't tell me to move on, because I still like the insrumentals enough to keep buying the records. "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat." Marty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:15:12 -0500 From: "Bob Gelinas" Subject: Re: KCCC #14 Live At Plymouth Guildhall {{Here's the added kicker. Boz CAN actually sing. I don't know is his voice or willingness burned out later on with this band but he sings strongly and delicately, depending on the piece they do. Amazing. Anyone who has only Islands NEEDS this set for comparison between this KC in the studio and out in open air. }} My biggest problem with Islands is how terrible Boz's voice is. I often wonder what was going through Fripp's mind during the recording sessions. Even Gourds Haskell's weak voice was better than Boz's. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 07:07:02 From: "Clive Lathrope" Subject: Deja Vroom DVD Looks like this has gone up to #8.15 at encoredirect.co.uk plus P&P of around #1.50. Still a good deal though. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:39:25 -0800 From: Bob Ramstad Subject: KCCC #12 regarding KCCC #12, i find it a little odd that this is in distribution as a bootleg, but someone will not let it be distributed through the KCCC. i can only assume the person involved has some strange reason for not wanting wide distribution -- not sure how many members there are of the KCCC, but i'd have to guess that there are fewer KCCC members than there are purchasers of KC bootlegs worldwide, so i'm afraid that all this does is deny one group of fans with principles from buying the material direct from a legitimate source. if anyone has the bootleg CD in question, you might consider "liberating" it. use EAC to extract perfect WAV files, then make SHN data files from them, scan the cover art and back art, and make the data files available to people over the Internet ala etree.org -- or do blanks and postage for people with computers willing to make audio CDs for people who don't have the capability of using SHN files -- just a thought as this is ultimately the only way to keep bootleggers from taking what is not theirs. i know that it's the lesser of two evils, but hey, life's full of choices, isn't it? -- Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:59:52 -0500 From: Ashley Collins Subject: Re: deja Vroom - Can't watch Tony's Road Movies Rod LeCloux wrote in ET#805: > I can't watch Tony's Road Movies from the "deja Vroom" DVD. Everything else > seems to work just fine including live music with P J crook paintings!! > > Is there a work around for this? > > My system is PC based Compaq Presario... My guess is that it's a problem with whatever brand of DVD-ROM drive that Compaq installs in their systems. When my parents got a new Presario a little over a year ago, I ordered Deja VROOOM and made many trips to their place to watch it before buying a DVD player of my own. Tony's road movies were also the only features I could not access; it looks like those drives just aren't capable of reading that data. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but maybe someone with more experience could tell you something I missed. Ashley ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:30:28 -0800 From: Jeff Liss Subject: let slyvian/fripp be sylvian/fripp I'd love to hear another S/F album with the same personnel, and yes that includes Ingrid Chavez (one of the few direct Prince - KC paths). But Sylvian doesn't have the range, he sings a certain way and makes a certain kind of music. Ade's got the job... remember when Bobby announced the Sylvian/Belew/Fripp/Gunn/Moratta KC in Rolling Stone in '92 or '93? Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:18:00 -0500 From: "Albert Oller" Subject: Conversions? There have been some postings about KC touring with Tool, and also last year some postings about exposing KC to new audiences by touring with other groups. How about the reverse? Did any of you KC enthusiasts become fans of the groups you saw on the Horde Tour that KC was part of? Or when R. Fripp was on the G3 Tour? Or long ago, did anybody enjoy the music of the 'Alley Cats', who opened for KC in New York? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:16:09 -0500 From: Dan Buxbaum Subject: Another clue on trivia question In reference to my earlier trivia question from a few E-Ts ago, Danny Anderson wrote (in the last E-T): "It's the Rimitti album which has the indian musicians on it...and Flea as well. Here's one for you. What obscure British folk singer does Bobby back up on a few tunes on acoustic guitar? If I remember right Peter Gabriel is on it as well." Well, Danny, I have to inform you that "the Rimitti album" was not the CD I had in mind in answer to my earlier question. Having never heard that album I don't know who's on it. But since you mention Peter Gabriel, here's another (big) clue: Mr. Gabriel also appears on the CD (on one track only) to which I am referring too. I hope that gives away the answer now! (Have no idea as to your question about the "obscure British folk singer".) (Initial question: "Which CD features Robert Fripp on guitar (& Frippertronics) along with Indian musicians Ustad Sultan Khan on sarangi, Pandit Dinesh on tabla & Nitya Mohan on tamboura all performing on the same song(s)? Big Easy Clue: Trey Gunn also plays Stick on this album on the same tracks. Here's a new big clue: this CD would never be classified as Indian Classical music by any stretch of the imagination.") -- "When scientists were confronted by the impact of their perceiving upon what was perceived, the certainty of their interpretations of the world was sorely challenged." -- John Barrow ('The Artful Universe') ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:02:08 +0100 From: "C. Skina" Subject: the lady or the soundscape Recently, while dining, we were listening to the "Lady or the Tiger". Obviously, the Text, the Voice and the Guitar are in a good marriage (pun intended). We were discussing about having the soundscape played as an independent channel. That of course, would not do so, what we were actually pointing at was the lack of CC soundscaping. Both my friend and I enjoy Mr Fripp making noises hence the question: is there talk about DGM releasing any CC on this subject? Thanks Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:26:46 -0000 From: "Tony Emmerson" Subject: EXCLUSIVE KC related articles/competitions Dear Folks Some of you might be interested in the KC related articles and content featured exclusively in Go4London's Go4MyLondon lifestyle section. Although not specifically a Prog or music section, we are featuring exclusive pieces penned by Prog stars and others relating to the city. Current articles include Tony Levin, and we will shortly be running pieces by at least 3 more KC related contributors. There is also a superb chance to win copies of Pete Lockett's Network of Sparks album, featuring Pete and Bill Bruford. Kindly donated and SIGNED by Pete, they contain some of the most interesting percussion work heard for a long, long time. More Bill content will be coming! Other articles are by none other than Peter Hammill, Annie Haslam, Paul Whitehead, Rick Wakeman, and Carrie Melbourne (Oldfield Band). There are also free-to-enter competitions to win SIGNED copies of recent releases by Rick and Annie. There will be more articles coming weekly from other great Prog names (and others), plus lots of competitions to win signed more CDs! Every competition entry shows support for the venture, vital for getting more articles well into 2001 and beyond. The URL is http://www.go4london.co.uk/index.php3?topic=./my_london and it can also be found by going to our main page, www.go4london.co.uk and following the link to Go4 MyLondon All the best, Tony Emmerson BSc (Hons) Email: tony at temmerson dot freeserve dot co dot uk Writer & Journalist UK Contributor to: Go4London - http://www.go4london.co.uk Progression - http://www.progressionmagazine.com ProgressiveWorld - http://www.progressiveworld.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:05:40 +0000 From: Steve Day Subject: 1980s remasters now available Long time lurker makes historic first post to announce that Discipline, Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair gatefold remasters are available to pre-order from Amazon.co.uk at: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=music&field-keyw ords=%20king%20crimson&bq=1/thestellastreetp/ I've been into KC for a while now, since TCoL came out and Amazon.com recommended it to me as a former Pink Floyd purchaser. I started with ITWOP, though, which blew me away. I have been so disciplined (no pun intended) that, of the studio albums, I have only bought the gatefold remasters so far (plus Thrak and TCoL), so I have the three "new" ones to look forward to. Imagine that, not having heard all the albums! I try not to have any expectations about them, as I know what Mr Fripp would say! Another musician I'm interested in is Terry Riley, whom I mention here as he pioneered the tape-lag-accumulator system, similar to Frippertronics. I'd recommend investigating him to anyone who enjoys RF's soundscapes or trance/ambient/techno/minimalism in general. In fact, Riley started the minimalist movement with his 1964 piece "In C". Just to finish, for someone keeping track of these things, I am a younger fan, aged 21, and am a final year law student in London. Steve Day http://www.steveday.clara.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:23:13 +0000 From: Mr Tea Subject: ITTTW Info In ET #805 JasJohns reported the following... > I recently heard a version of 'I Talk to the Wind' on the (yes) radio, > featuring a female singer, and a guitarist doing an admirable job of > mimicking RF's style. It's impossible to be sure without having heard the actual broadcast, but this was almost certainly the 1968 demo version of the song that first appeared on the 1976 double album compilation 'A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson'. The track info on the album sleeve is as follows: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert Fripp: Electric Guitar Ian MacDonald: Acoustic Guitar, Flute, Clarinet, Vocal Peter Giles: Bass Guitar Michael Giles: Drums Judy Dyble: Vocal Recorded in the front room at 93a Brondesbury Road, London NW6 during July 1968 on an old second-hand revox manipulated by Peter Giles. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Judy Dyble and Ian MacDonald had been part of the original Fairport Convention lineup, formed in 1967 as 'Britains answer to Jefferson Airplane' - both appear on the band's eponymously titled, seldom-heard & distinctly unfolky debut album (standout track - The Lobster). Judy was subsequently replaced by the late, lamented Sandy Denny. Judy and Ian joined forces with Giles, Giles & Fripp on June 7th 1968, but Judy moved on a few weeks later, shortly after the ITTTW demo was recorded, and some months before GG&F metamorphosed into King Crimson. What she's been up to since, I have no idea... Regards Mr Tea -- "Always remember to warm the pot." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:40:06 -0600 From: Mike Champagne Subject: Island-era KCCC#14 / KCCC on Ebay / ITTTW In ET-805, John Mosher writes in sweeping prose about the sheer beauty of the oft-maligned Islands-era KC, and I say RIGHT ON! This incarnation of KC has paid its dues over the years with bad press and ill will from all corners and I hope that there will be more "enlightened souls" (for the lack of a better term) like John with every KCCC release that features this outfit. The one point of John's that I absolutely *have* to echo is his statement that "Listening to Islands for what it is, rather than comparing it to what it isn't . . . has given me great enjoyment over the last 30 years." I heartily concur, and having come to love this LP and the group that created it via much the same process. When I started collecting KC records in earnest in 1977, Islands was the last one I got, mainly because I wasn't too sure about it. I had heard them all from friends, and had heard a lot of snotty & denigrating remarks about Islands, and Boz in particular (?!), so I was a bit unsure of the whole thing. But I have always loved the music that this group put together, and I am frightfully happy that Uncle Bob has seen fit to let the rest of us hear more of it. Also in ET-805, Jordan Cohen asks inanely if he should fell any "moral prohibition against selling some of [his] KCCC cds on Ebay?" Hmmmmm, well, I thought for sure that there was some sort of exclusivity clause in the club guidelines on the web, and there may well have been such when the club first came into being (as the DGM Collectors Club), but the only thing there now is an understanding that you will not duplicate the releases you receive. So, unless you make cassette or CD-R copies before selling them, I guess you're not breaking any contract, implied or otherwise, but I would hasten to add that you should not be asking any more for each CD than the $16 you paid for it to begin with. I know there were reports of some retail outlets somewhere in the US joining the club under pseudonyms and selling the releases at ridiculously inflated prices, and also that those at DGM were none too happy with this report, although I don't know if it was ever substantiated. I would post on the DGM Guestbook and maybe get a reading from Dan K, if he hasn't responded to you already as he is also the webmeister of ET as well. Finally, and I'm sure I'm probably the fiftieth person to post on this subject . . . the version of I Talk to the Wind that JasJohns22 at aol dot com heard on the radio was a post-GGF/pre-KC rehearsal, when Ian MacDonald and his then-girlfriend Judy Dyble and pal Peter Sinfield first joined up with GGF. I believe they still considered themselves GGF at the time, though I'm not positive. At any rate, GGF's career with Decca was over, and this was potentially one of the flash-points that led to the beginning of KC - see the scrapbooks that came with "The Young Person's Guide to King Crimson" (2LP-1976-out of print) on which this tune appeared, and "frame by frame" (4CD-1992?-also apparently OOP) on which it didn't, for more details. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #806 ********************************