Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #801 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 801 Sunday, 28 January 2001 Today's Topics: Eno / movies Tim Brady Fripp/Eno bootleg Frejus Pete Hammil in Mexico KC marathon 2 Re: Sacred Songs Robert Fripp and John Cale KC and Malcolm in the Middle An Interesting Fripp Related Discovery Returning Jesus Re: response to post on KC posters Eno on film Re: Frippery 2 Copland and Crim Re: Notes from a young Crim Enthusiast another Fripp-influenced amatuer musician Malcolm Sighting, DVD Theory, Family, Remix News Plugging in, in an old fashioned type of way help!!! King Crimson - ConstruKcting a Vibrant Light Bozzio Levin Stevens ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:30:10 EST From: GenoTT at aol dot com Subject: Eno / movies Brian Eno also contributes the closing credits music for "Traffic," which also appears on the soundtrack. It's listed as 4-1/2 minutes on the CD case, but actually runs 14-1/2. A pleasant surprise. The rest of the soundtrack is ambient music similar to Fripp & Eno's work, or Trey Gunn's last two albums, although it's somewhat less interesting than either.. anyway, anyone who likes said albums might find this soundtrack worth checking out. -g ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:40:48 -0500 From: generic Subject: Tim Brady Hey There, good work on keeping ET alive, I would just suggest to ET readers, and to Fripp himself, and the the gang from KC, to listen to Tim Brady, notably his newest album "10 Collaborations", and earlier material such as "Revolutionary Songs"...it truly is the future of composition for the electric guitar as an art form, Fripp would do well to listen to this artist. Any also....acoustic drums are so much better than electronic drums, bring back Giles, or Bruford! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 17:57:24 EST From: PhasedIn at aol dot com Subject: Fripp/Eno bootleg Being more of an Eno/Fripp fan (and a fan of Frippertronics and Soundscapes) than a KC fan (except the "Islands" disc, which I love), the one and only Fripp bootleg I have ever purchased(and it's a 2 disc set on vinyl I bought in NYC around 1980), is a bottleg aprox 75 minute live concert of Fripp & Eno playing in Paris on May 28 1975, the title of which is called "Even Spaces". Although the vinyl itself is worn and a bit shoddy quality, my guess is that the recording is from the sound board as very little audience noise is heard,, and certainly was not recorded by somebody with a portable tape player. So, with that in mind, has anybody heard this bootleg, and motre importanly, I was hoping that Fripp himself would have a recording of this concert and will consider it for release thru the club. As only one other musician is involved (Eno) I doubt it would be hard to get the clearence/permission from him to have this relesed... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:03:55 -0700 (MST) From: Andang Kustamsi Subject: Frejus Greetings, I just watched King Crimson Live in Frejus video. In Sheltering Sky song Bill Bruford played an instrument (like a box). If somebody knows what it is, could you tell me the name of instrument, please? Many thanks. Andang [ I believe it's an African Slit Drum. So there. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:50:44 -0600 From: "Jose Fernandez" Subject: Pete Hammil in Mexico Hi all Peter Hammil will be giving a concert in mexico city next feb 25... of course i already have a ticket... but now i have to declare my ignorance: i do not own any hammill cds. where would it be a good place to start? best to all jf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:37:46 +0100 From: "Scheepers, Hans" Subject: KC marathon 2 Yes, Discipline was part of the marathon as well. Another crimso noticed my omission as well. On the last day of the year I received KCCC 13 and a few days ago I put my hands on Heavy ConstruKction. So the new year started with more hours of listening. And...I still like it! Cheers, Hans. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:49:00 +0000 From: Mr Tea Subject: Re: Sacred Songs This from ProgNaut (Ron) - ET #799 > sorry if this has been a topic before [I'm new to the list] but how does > Sacred Songs sound? I had RF's Exposure tape years ago and heard Hall on > it. Briefly, Ron, it sounds great. Sacred Songs is one of a linked trio of albums (the other two are Peter Gabriel's 2nd solo LP and Exposure itself) that were produced as a unified body of work. The effect was somewhat spoilt when RCA, Hall's record company, buried the tapes in a vault, convinced that the album would sink his career. 'Delayed by dinosaurs' is how Fripp put it (as I recall), and Daryl included a little note on the lyric sheet when the album finally came to light in 1980, saying 'Thanks to all the writers and write-ins who helped to "pull this out of the vault" after two years.' I was pretty chuffed about that at the time, because I was one of those 'write-ins'. The album certainly doesn't always conform to the smooth, soulful templates that Hall&Oates fans had come to expect, and it won't please those who want to hear 'Abandoned Luncheonette' part two. But Daryl's fabulous voice is in great form, and the LP is an essential part of the Fripp canon from those inter-Crimson years. So too is the Peter Gabriel album, which contains some of his best work (eg, Mother of Violence) and is a stark reminder of how flabby and over-produced his later solo work became. You owe it to yourself to set aside a couple of hours and hear these three albums back to back. And watch out for that moment when the Frippertronics kick in during Babs & Babs. Heaven. Mr Tea - -- "Always remember to warm the pot." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:09:17 +0000 From: Mr Tea Subject: Robert Fripp and John Cale Brian Eno seems to have muscled his way on to this list, of late, and seeing his name pop up here set me thinking... Robert Fripp and John Cale, two of my favourite music makers & shapers, both worked productively with Mr Eno during the mid-seventies (let's leave 'Wrong Way Up' out of it for now), but have Bob & John ever worked together directly? I'd be interested (and somewhat astounded) to hear of any such collaborations. Mr Tea - -- Brew of the day: Ceylon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:43:33 -0500 From: "J. Stephen Huff" Subject: KC and Malcolm in the Middle Some prime time exposure....(well, Fox anyway) Malcolm's dad is going through some LP's in the new neighbor's garage, "Wow....Doobie Brothers....King Crimson!" and I believe a glimpse of the back cover of USA was visible for just a second.... Steve - -- ************************************************ "I don't need more time; I need a deadline." - --Duke Ellington ************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:19:39 +1300 From: "Geoffrey Balasoglou" Subject: An Interesting Fripp Related Discovery Hello Everyone, I just made a rather fascinating discovery. Today I bought Gitbox's Touch Wood Album from a local cd store. I had read about the band at the DGM website and since they are from my own country New Zealand I thought I would give them a try. On Reading the CD booklet I noticed that one of the guitarist in the group was none other then the Nairobi Trio's Nigel Gavin. Just to let you know 'The Nairobi Trio' was my favourite New Zealand band before I had even heard of King Crimson are progressive music! At the time Nigel Gavin was a guitarist in the band. Little did I know at the time that previously Gavin had attended Guitarcraft sessions and in fact was a member of the League of Crafty Guitarists! About 1 or 2 years later after seeing 'The Nairobi Trio' Live. I first found King Crimson ( approx April 2000) I thought and still am continuing my search into KC and Robert Fripp. At the time I had no clue that Nigel Gavin had even heard of Robert Fripp. On buying a few of the rare and barely available 'Nairobi Trio' recordings I noticed in the credits Gavin had been credited with Gavitronics at the time I had just discovered Robert Fripp's Frippertronics. At the time I thought of it as being a total coincidence. The just today I bought Gitbox's Touch Wood album and in the cd booklet was Nigel Gavin and a little story of how he was a member of the League Of Crafty Guitarist and meet up with Robert Fripp. I was quite amazed and surprised. Before I had ever had of Robert Fripp it ends up I was already liking some of his students work Nigel Gavin from The Nairobi Trio. How Surprising! Thanks, Geoffrey Balasoglou ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:09:01 +0100 From: Tim Bowness Subject: Returning Jesus Apologies for the non-KC content of this email, but I thought those of you on the list who liked 'Flowermouth' (No-Man's album featuring Robert Fripp and Mel Collins) may be interested in the following: No-Man (the duo comprising Porcupine Tree's Steven Wilson and Tim Bowness) has finally completed its long-awaited new album "Returning Jesus". The album, the band's first since 1996's 'Wild Opera', is No-Man's most ambitious and timeless to date, featuring a more organic band sound than heard on previous releases. Guest performers include Steve Jansen (Rain Tree Crow/Japan) on drums and Porcupine Tree's Colin Edwin on bass/double bass for most tracks. In addition, are trumpeters Ian Carr (Nucleus) and Ian Dixon, and saxophonist Theo Travis (Gong). Additional production and guitar contributions come from David Kosten (Faultline) and acclaimed singer-songwriter Ben Christophers. RELEASE DATE AND MAIL ORDER DETAILS: No-Man's label Third Stone should have finished copies of 'Returning Jesus' within the next week or two. The official streetdate for the album release is February 26th, although as soon as the album is in stock, mail order copies will be sent out. Mail order details are as follows: FOR THE U.K. STONE038CD NO-MAN 'RETURNING JESUS' CD ALBUM #10.00 (inclusive of p&p) PRICES FOR POSTAGE AND PACKING OUTSIDE THE U.K. (All postage prices include airmail postage to overseas destinations.) Europe 50p extra per item Rest of World #1extra per item Telephone 01536-202295, fax 01536-266246 or email 3rdstone at adasam dot demon dot co dot uk with your credit card details. We accept Visa, Mastercard and American Express credit cards and also Visa Delta debit cards. Orders are despatched every day and cards are billed at the same time. If you are telephoning or faxing from outside the UK dial the international access number followed by 44 1536 202295 if you are telephoning and 44 1536 266246 for fax orders. Cheques drawn on a UK bank, Sterling postal orders or international money orders should be made payable to THIRD STONE LIMITED and sent to: PO BOX 8, CORBY, NORTHAMPTONSHIRE, NN17 2XZ, ENGLAND. Please allow 21 days for delivery if you are paying by cheque. http://www.no-man.co.uk http://come.to/no-man ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:01:13 -0500 From: "Christian Coulter" Subject: Re: response to post on KC posters From Elephant Talk-799, a "looking for KC posters" post received the following response: ">I for one would definitely be interested since KC is arguably my favorite >group, and I have no posters to hang on my wall. So... Is KC your favorite group to LISTEN TO or LOOK AT? I mean, does the fact you like their music make them so good looking that they deserve adorning your bedroom wall?" - ----------------- This response is a little harsh isn't it? Is it better to be mean, smug and superior than to, um, let me guess, "fetishize and worship the delineated meanings of blah blah blah"? To those-who-would-be-Fripp: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and the ultimate act of worship. On posters: King Crimson have some beautiful album art that would make great posters. How dare anyone judge what someone else should want to look at, be it a Rothko or a band picture, be it on an album or on the wall. Should the poster-searcher burn all of his King Crimson videos? We do not always need to listen to music (or judge others) with our eyes closed. - - Christian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:14:35 -0600 From: "GONZALEZ, MARC" Subject: Eno on film Hey, do not forget the Todd Haynes film Velvet Goldmine; it had several Eno songs in it. Was fun watching Ewan McGregor pretend to play the mock-Fripp solo from Baby's on Fire. Marc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:28:52 -0500 From: Randall dot Hammill at hartfordlife dot com Subject: Re: Frippery 2 Geoff wrote: "Rely on what someone does, not what they say they do." Rather interesting quote, that reminds me of what Ralph Waldo Emerson once said (a 19th Century Writer) "What you do speaks so loud that I cannot hear what you say" **** or - "Actions speak louder than words." This is one of those common phrases that actually contains a lot of wisdom if you are willing to think about it, and look at yourself. Most people are unwilling to recognize that they need to change, but proverbs such as these can really give you some insight into yourself, if you take the time to think about them. Most people rattle off little phrases like these to point out somebody else's shortcomings and failures, but I think that Jesus pointed out rather succinctly that it's better to worry about your own problems rather than other peoples when he said, "Don't worry about the stick in their eye, when you have a log in yours." I agree with your assessment. It is actually a rephrasing of my definition of "Character." A person who has good character is a person who's words match their actions. Note that this does not indicate moral character - a murderer who says he is going to kill you, then does, by definition has good character. I recommend you strive to have a good, moral character. That's a whole other subject, but the short answer I can give you is to remember that your rights stop when they infringe on somebody else's. A great (nonreligious) book to check out is Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do. Of course, most of the wisdom in phrases like these can be found throughout the Bible, Koran and other sacred books... Randy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:26:13 -0500 From: Geordie Robertson Subject: Copland and Crim I recently came across this quote written by Aaron Copland in 1939 and was immediately reminded of the recent "I can't get my friends to listen to King Crimson" posts. Here it is: "Why is it that the typical music lover of our day is seemingly so reluctant to consider a musical composition as, possibly, a challenging experience?... Most people seem to resent the controversial in music; they don't want their listening habits disturbed. They use music as a couch; they want to be pillowed on it, relaxed and consoled for the stress of daily living. But serious music was never meant to be used as a soporific. Contemporary music, especially, is created to wake you up, not put you to sleep. It is meant to stir and excite you, to move you - it may even exhaust you." I wonder if Aaron Copland would have been a Crim fan? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:06:46 -0500 (EST) From: Jonathan Subject: Re: Notes from a young Crim Enthusiast "Ezequiel Guerrero" said > > So I think the best way to get other people to like a band like KC is to > let it be... you can t force it. I can also add that the more you push > them, the more negative effect you ll get. Eventually, they ll knock at > your house s door and ask you to lend them those "weird cd s you are > playing all day long". It must be a natural process, and if they are ready > and willing, it will happen. I, on the other hand, recommend brainwashing techniques. This approach has the advantage that, in addition to programming in a positive response to crim music, you can also program in aversions to smoking, flash photography and yelling "Bruuuuufoooord" and, perhaps, enthusiasm for dancing in 7/8. :) Regards, Jonathan Krall ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:31:26 -0700 From: "Fred Newman" Subject: another Fripp-influenced amatuer musician Hi Everyone, I hope I don't disrupt the even flow of ET with this note, but I thought some people in this forum may be interested in my music which I have posted on mp3.com. Fripp & The Lads have of course been a huge musical influence on me over the years, and I would just like to thank them (in case they're reading) for all the wonderful music over the years. Then on the other hand, there's my offering under the Helmut Fensterschlechter moniker, which can be found at http://www.mp3.com/helmut some rock stuff, some ambient stuff, and just about zero virtuosity or guitar tricks/heroics. But _some_ cool things. Or at least I imagine so. I think some people here will hear something they like. 5 words: thank god for mellotron samples thanks for reading this far! Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:59:26 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Malcolm Sighting, DVD Theory, Family, Remix News Hello Crim Lovers, Wherever You Are......... Hey, just a big grabbag of topics today. King Crimson rated a mention on FOX network's Malcolm In The Middle on January 21. Hal (Malcolm's dad) is drooling over his new neighbor's stuff (almost weeping at the sight of a big screen, "Is this Heaven?") He then spies a box of vinyl and and blurts something like "You've got the Doobie Brothers?.......King Crimson! (holds up plain red cover presumably the back of Discipline).......and Cheap Trick!?" Before you get to excited the two are loudly singing along to Mark Lindsay's "Indian Nation" a few seconds later. It's this kind of grassroots exposure that leads to etc. etc. The last couple of issues have mentioned DVD problems with Deja Vroom playback where certain members are not heard. This is pure speculation as I still don't own Deja Vroom (soon, I hope) and I am a DVD novice. DTS is a discrete five channel plus sub woofer system. It sounds like you may be sending the DTS output from your player to a stereo or ,at least, non DTS system and therefore hearing 2 of 5 channels. If you select the non DTS soundtrack on your disc (usually on the menu under set up or audio options) you should hear the complete program mixed in stereo. I am guessing from the descriptions I have read, that when you play the featured player mixes that that player is featured in the center channel of a surround sound system. Hope this was helpful and if my theory is bogus I'm sorry I wasted your time. On the recent mentions of the Family, Fearless was a terrific album. Wetton is very good on it. He is occasionally heard on backing vocals and I know there was one song where he had a lead vocal on a bridge. (Spanish something I think). There were a couple of very nice short jazzy instrumentals and a really fun novelty tune called "Larf And Sing". Family had their own sound but if you had to try to describe them, they could be compared to older Genesis. A bit less prog but not in the way Genesis devolved. The singer had a scratchy voice that was an acquired taste (Rod Stewart to the third power) but I really liked him. Hmmm Deva Vroom or update my old Fearless LP to cd? Poverty sucks. Surprised to see no discussion of Fripp's recent entrys regarding the next batch of remixes: Tony's amazing. I will have to find a way to play with him again. ProjeKCt 4, perhaps. I don't have any more music to play with Bill Bruford. Why would he want to play in Robert Fripp's King Crimson when he can play in Bill Bruford's Earthworks? This is all paraphrased and misleading out of context but go check out the actual entries. Also, Bonus Tracks!!!!!!! Extra improvs and Sleepless mix or mixes on "Three Of A Perfect Pair" and Matte with and without Fripp's missing solo on "Discipline". No one finds this stuff worth discussion? Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:53:41 EST From: JStraw8369 at aol dot com Subject: Plugging in, in an old fashioned type of way i trust in everyone's patience for my indulgence. for a bit i have been reading w/ interest the road several have taken to the band. which of course lead to my own questioning. reflectively, my interest was sparked and fueled primarily by the talent, but also by the marketing abilities of one r. fripp. while in h.s.-- circa 1981-- a unique relationship was developed ( i would be interested in more info) between our fearless leader and "Musician" magazine. each month it seemed an article would be written by fripp on this matter or that. somewhere in a closet i have a few issues. as is true w/ any media, the relationship was symbiotic. tucked in one month's issue was a short article that championed Eveneing Star as an undeniable masterpiece. which introduced me. again, talent is primary. as good a place to start as any. i was intrigued enough to hunt for more recordings. photographs appearing in the magazine of a band playing in a cellar (see the recent kccc cover of the moles club ) etc. and i was thirsting for the expected release --which was Discipline. and from there everything started to explode. for those who own the vinyl, take a look at the etched messages on many of this period's fripp solo recordings, located on between last track and the label. League of Gentleman = "THE NEXT STEP IS DISCIPLINE" Exposure = "THE AIM IS FREEDOM CONSCIENCE AND TRUTH "1981 IS THE YEAR OF THE FRIPP" primative marketing in the days before 1's and 0's, but heightened expectation as a result. to say nothing of the cross polination that was taking place. reaching back you had eno producing bowie w/ fripp on lead. which lead to belew's adoption of fripps seat in the band beside, w/ due respect, carlos alomar. fripp playing alongside w/ levin on gabriel's early work. and then closer to the year of the fripp-- d byrne's vocals on let the power fall. fripps licks on i zimbra belews monster work on remain in light, to say nothing of enos brilliant production (perhaps the seminal "record"--not "cd"--of the period) i still remeber the day both Beat and The Lone Rhino were released on the same day, reveiwed in the NYTimes on the same day i guess i wonder if anyone else was following the same path as i was??? fripp is still up to the same game. while adopting a marketing strategy more suited to the present digital age ( dont think you'll see etchings on cd releases!!!!) and presenting a slew of available material, all in different configurations--aka the projekts. fripp is a modernist thru and thru. exploiting the available opportunities while, nonetheless, following Pound's dictate to "KEEP IT NEW." dont forget we are being sold product. while i do appeciate the current work being done, i dont think the current period matches in intensity, richness, exploration, collaboration or diversity as did the boast that was delivered on in 81 that we would indeed experience "year of the fripp." truely an engaing and fruitful period. who can deny the sheltering sky as a suitable companion to crosseyed and painless? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:11:51 -0600 From: "Jose Fernandez" Subject: help!!! Hi all I was a happy owner of the Mexico concert as I had the chance to download it without problems... it means a lot to me since i was there. However my computer had some problems and although i still have the file, i do not have the winamp version required to play it. Does anybody know where could I get that winamp version? Thanks to all JF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:48:31 -0600 From: "Gerardo Liedo" Subject: King Crimson - ConstruKcting a Vibrant Light From Guitar.com today King Crimson - ConstruKcting a Vibrant Light Get POD Spotlight Tone Settings from Line 6 http://guitar.com/features/viewfeature.asp?featureID=197 Allan Holdsworth - The Outer Limits Get POD Spotlight Tone Settings from Line 6 http://guitar.com/features/viewfeature.asp?featureID=196 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:00:59 -0500 From: "Tim Roache" Subject: Bozzio Levin Stevens I recently picked up two cd's by Terry Bozzio, Tony Levin, and Steve Stevens, which I highly recommend to all Crimheads. "Black Light Syndrome" was released in 1997, and "Situation Dangerous" in 2000, both on the "Neo-Prog" label Magna Carta, which, by the way, also offers two albums by the collaberation between Tony and some of the guys from Dream Theater known as Liquid Tension Experiment. I have not bought the LTE albums, as I am not a huge fan of the Dream Theater / progressive metal thing. Would anyone with a considered opinion on the LTE releases care to give us their feedback on those albums? Although they are not Crim related, Crimheads should also not miss "Erpland" by Ozric Tentacles, and the entire catalogue of music released by the Swedish band The Flower Kings. Great stuff. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #801 ********************************