Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #800 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 800 Sunday, 21 January 2001 Today's Topics: NEWS: Tony Levin/Pat Mastelotto/CGT - CA Tour Dates Re: KC Marathon early footage compilation? Best Song of 2000 Re: Deja Vrooom DVD Problem? A young person's attempt to understand Frippery #2 KC scores DVD-Audio - ELP's Brain Salad Surgery diary entries requested King Crimson Studio rehearsals Re: Remastering and new digital audio formats Suggestion of exchange Buffalo 66 Re: Remastering and new digital audio formats McDonald & Giles Lyrics What's wrong with London? Problems with MP3 encoding of KC material Re: Family "The Sun Is Shining" bass tab + chords Suggested Listening ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:51:06 -0700 From: Jon Lybrook Subject: NEWS: Tony Levin/Pat Mastelotto/CGT - CA Tour Dates Hi All, The California Guitar Trio will be doing a short tour of the west coast (California specifically) starting later this month, aided and abetted by Tony Levin and Pat Mastelotto. It's sure to be a spectacularly rare set of performances, so don't miss it! Please see the Yamanashi News page on the CGT site for *the latest* information about this tour and other CGT gigs and activities at http://www.cgtrio.com/yamanews.htm Happy New Year! Jon Lybrook CGT Web ~^*~^*~^*~~^*~^*~^~*^~^*^~*~^*~^*^~*~^*~^*~^*~^*^~*^~*^~*~^*^~~^*~^*^~* CGT, Tony Levin and Pat Mastelotto January/February in California Concert Tour Dates * = Tentative Date or TBA Date City, State Venue/Contact Time/Misc. 1/26 Ventura Ventura Theater 9pm (805) 653-0721 1/27 * San Jose TBA TBA 1/28 Cotati Inn of the Beginning 8pm (707) 664-1522 1/29 San Francisco Great American Music Hall 8pm (415) 885-0750 1/30 Santa Cruz Palookaville 8pm (831) 454-0707 1/31 * Sacramento TBA TBA 2/1 * TBA TBA TBA 2/2 San Diego Brick by Brick 7pm (619) 276-3993 2/3 Los Angeles The Key Club 7pm (310) 786-1712 2/4 San Juan Capistrano The Coach House 8pm (949) 496-8930 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:38:10 -0500 From: Brian Preston Subject: Re: KC Marathon What happened to Discipline?? You must have listened but not listed ? Aye? Did SABB stand out as one of the BEST, or what? Basses/production Smokin'Granny/Freehand/Onomata Metaphoric Music Productions Durham, NC davido42.home.mindspring.com/smokingranny ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 03:04:30 -0500 From: "Luigi Giugliano" Subject: early footage compilation? I was wondering. After Fripp is done remastering the KC catalogue, does he plan on doing anytime a video compilation of '69-'74 Crim...like including the entire Beat Club performance from '72 with Jamie Muir, the Midnight Special from '74, Top Of the Pops lip-synching (LOL!) "Cat Food", and what ever 70's concert footage that was shown on VH1's 100 Greatest Bands Of Hard Rock, etc. Rarely anybody has seen this footage in its entirety, let alone there's no commercial video available made containing pre-80's Crim. So I say, "Hey Frippy! Dig into those archives and show me that blast from the past. I'd pay money alone to see the entire Beat Club performance." Luigi Giugliano SCRUTINIZER981 at hotmail dot com "There's no way that what I do can fit within a corporate format. In the United States, radio is a cultural embarrassment. Most of the music that's broadcast is harmful to your mental health." -- FRANK ZAPPA "(I'll) tell you a little secret about the blues: it's not enough to know which notes to play; you've got to know WHY they need to be played." -- GEORGE CARLIN "Music is the cup which holds the wine of silence; sound is that cup, but empty; noise is that cup, but broken." -- ROBERT FRIPP ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:11:49 EST From: ChalkPie88 at aol dot com Subject: Best Song of 2000 Eter's: I have finally come up with the best song of 2000 by any artist. That song is "The ConstrucKtion of Light". Truly magnificent. Trey's bass part is unreal in itself. And the guitar parts - whoa... The drums ain't bad either. But the real reason I think this is the best song of 2000 is the way this piece is construcKted and composed. I get the goosebumps when they go into the "Disciplinesque" (is that a word?) section after eight times of "yapa, bumpa...yapa, bumpa...yapa, bumpa...yapa, bumpa...yapa, bumpa...yapa, bumpa...yapa, bumpa...yapa, bumpa...BOOM" Orgasmic. The guitar interplay is SO dense and hypnotic, I swear I hear new things with every listen. And then there's the final section with 'Ole Adrian on vocals. Great stuff. This is a piece I can listen to every day. I don't think they boys have come this close to perfection since "Starless" or "The Sheltering Sky". Frank ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:05:34 -0500 From: "Craig J. Clark" Subject: Re: Deja Vrooom DVD Problem? In ET #798, Lewis W Beard wrote: > > I finally got a DVD player (Toshiba SD 2150 or something like that...) and > the first DVD I bought was Deja Vrooom from my local Best Buy. I also got a > converter box from radio shack because my current tv only has coax input > ... it is that old. I know the feeling. I've hooked mine up through my VCR -- which the manual doesn't recommend -- but I haven't had any problems with it yet. > Anyway, while the DVD (as well as the other 12 dvds I have since purchased) > is perfectly great otherwise, I do have one problem with Deja Vroom. In > track 2 (which I think is "Vrooom"), there are 7 camera angles. Early in > the song where Trey Gunn is doing a slow, low melody on his (whatever it > is), I can't actually hear any of his notes. If I switch to either his or > Tony's angle, I hear it. It makes me wonder what else I am not hearing. > > Is this a known problem with the DVD, or is there something going on like > those notes being played on some imaginary surround sound speaker that the > player doesnt know I dont have? :) Sorry about the convoluted english on > that one. > > Any insight? Sorry, Lewis, no insight here, but I do offer commiseration. When I play deja VROOOM in my player I, too, cannot hear Trey's solo in "VROOOM VROOOM," but then again I don't seem to hear _anything_ Trey plays in the entire show. I see him fingering notes on his Warr guitar, but all I hear is the rest of the band. (This is especially disturbing during the two sticks intro to "Elephant Talk" and the middle sections of "Indiscipline" when everything drops out except Adrian's voice.) Also, if I stop the disc and then press play I get the video but no sound. This is easily remedied by opening and closing the disc tray, but it's still weird. -- Craig J. Clark "I believe -- so strongly -- in mayonnaise." cjclark at earthlink dot net --Elmo Oxygen, http://home.earthlink.net/~cjclark denizen of Schizopolis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:38:47 +1300 From: Geoff Subject: A young person's attempt to understand Frippery #2 Today's Fippery is "Rely on what someone does, not what they say they do." Rather interesting quote, that reminds me of what Ralph Waldo Emerson once said (a 19th Century Writer) "What you do speaks so loud that I cannot hear what you say" Today's quote (in my opinion which may vary from yours) informs us that a person's actions are far more important then a person words. This quote also reminds me of the song 'Elephant Talk'. Talk as Adrian Belew said is 'only talk' it may not have any relationship between the action of the person who said it. That is just my view, you are welcome to share yours. Thanks, Geoffrey Balasoglou ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:59:08 +0300 From: "Iscander the Aquarius" Subject: KC scores Hello ET people! Of help I ask thee! Anybody has scores of KC-not tabs? Anything? "I would be SOOOO delighted! " ;) Privately to my email,please: kc at iscander dot com [ Check out www.elephant-talk.com for some tabs -- Toby ] ~A~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 11:44:23 -0500 From: Mark Subject: DVD-Audio - ELP's Brain Salad Surgery Hello, As was recently posted, two new audio formats are emerging that could replace the current CD. I recently purchased the DVD-audio version of ELP's "Brain Salad Surgery". For those unfamiliar with this technology, to utilize the advanced resolution audio, you must have a DVD player with DVD audio capability. Only a few very recent DVD players have this capability. Fortunately, most of the discs being produced can be played in older DVD players using Dolby Digital 5.1. I don't have a DVD-Audio capable player yet but I have listened to the DD 5.1 mix. This new version sounds incredible. It sounds like a newly recorded version. I'm guessing they went back to the original multi-track masters and remixed. I can't wait to hear how this sounds on a DVD-audio capable player. In addition to BSS, they included a bonus track of "Lucky Man". The question that remains to be answered is whether the significant sound improvement is due to the new technology or remastering from the original multi-track masters or both. In other words, can older albums like ITCOTKC where the multi-track masters are supposedly lost, benefit from this technology. The down side to all this is that the new releases will set you back $20-25 each. Regards, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 00:01:33 EST From: Mikewyz at aol dot com Subject: diary entries requested I recently missed some Fripp diary entries. If anyone could email me the entries (txt format preferred) between December 18 and 28 I would me most appreciative. thanks, Mikewyz at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 06:46:05 From: "Matt D" Subject: King Crimson Studio rehearsals I have put this rare crimson CD on ebay. You can find it at http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1404297667 Happy Bidding! *********************************************************** Matt Deibert Check out Spacestation Integration MP3's www.mp3.com/SSI *********************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:19:25 +0000 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: Re: Remastering and new digital audio formats In ET 798 Brian Pearson wrote: > New consumer digital formats are waiting in the wings, though it may be a > couple of years before they gain the acceptance of the recording industry and > the music-buying public. Sony's "Super Audio CD" bitstream technology and > DVD-Audio (96kHz sampling/24-bit word depth) offer VASTLY superior sound to > conventional CD Hmmmmmm. Well, they've been waiting in the wings for some time now, and will quite possibly be staying there... Why do I think this? because for the most part, John Q. Listener has nothing to gain except a red bank balance. The "VASTLY superior sound" is moot to most people with a CD player, because they have poor amps that murder the sound with extra processing and then hide the (generally very poor) speakers behind the sofa or use them as plant stands, so the absolute sound quality is very secondary to the demands of single unit installation and living room aesthetics for most of the market. Sad, but true. Moving from LP to CD there were far more tangible benefits than better sound (some still prefer LPs now, of course): easier handling, easier track selection, harder to damage, but none of this will change with the new formats, so most people IMHO won't bother. > Currently only a few "audiophile" record labels are issuing discs in the new > format Quite often "audiophile" labels, and indeed equipment, manages to render perfectly good music into something that sounds quite amazing, but not actually anything much like real music so I'm a bit wary of them. One I do like is Naim Audio (a small independent based in Wiltshire, coincidentally), the record label arm of the naim hi-fi company. Their philosophy is to do the recording and mastering very carefully and after that they reckon the format is pretty much secondary, and listening to the discs suggests that is indeed the way to go with well done 16 bit technology coming out well ahead of 24 bit stuff which has had technology thrown at it without anyone considering the musical aspects of the recording and mastering process. Fortunately DGM seem to take the mastering side of things quite seriously. Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:03:29 -0000 From: "WAZA PROJEKT" Subject: Suggestion of exchange 21st Century Crim Collectors, I'm looking for somebody (in Europe), who is able to send me a CDR copy of 1996 Live in Mexico City (wma and wav format - if it's possible). I've tried to download it three times, but none of my files works correctly. So I have a suggestion. I offer to exchange this disc for a CDR copy (with colourful copy of the cover) of one of my treasures (choose which one). They are russian, "originally looking releases" of Earthbound and USA. If You agree my suggestion - email me personally to make an appointment. Best regards, Andrzej Samol, waza_pro at waza dot gda dot pl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:49:58 -0500 From: "jesscott" Subject: Buffalo 66 After bringing up the subject of Crimson (& Eno) in the movies I got a tip from fellow ETer, Jim to take a look at a recent film, BUFFALO 66, so I requested it from netflix.com. For you crimpersons who have not experienced this oddity, Vincent Gallo writes, directs and stars in a weird, enigmatic tale about a guy, who after getting out of prison abducts tap-dancer, Christina Ricci to masquerade as his wife for a trip to his parents. And paradoxically, she falls for him. During a bowling ally scene the movie takes a pregnant pause, the lights fade to dark, and Ricci gracefully launches into a tap-dance to KC's original Moonchild. It seems like a surreal dream sequence in juxtaposition to the rest of this gritty movie. It is debatable what the theme or message of the story is, but the placement of this flight of fancy smack in the middle is obviously a tribute to our favorite band. The film also uses the kinetic lead in to Yes' Heart of the Sunrise in a strip club scene (plus the Yes tune, Sweetness during the credits), and then adds King Crimson and Yes to the additional thanks list at the end. I am not sure what to make of this, but she sure pulls it off with finesse. A must see for all Crimpeople. Matthew K. Smith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:14:45 +0000 From: Nick Loebner Subject: Re: Remastering and new digital audio formats Hi Brian, some corrections to Brian Pearson's posting on Elephant-Talk #798:- Only SACD can be offered as a dual-layer format compatible with existing CD players. DVD-A is not compatible with CD players. DVD-A is not compatible with DVD-Video players. There is 24/96 audio included in the DVD-V standard - but this is not DVD-A format. Dedicated DVD-A and hybrid DVD-A/DVD-V players are now in the shops (in England). - Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:30:12 +0000 From: Nick Loebner Subject: McDonald & Giles Lyrics Hi all, there's been a little discussion here lately about this (patchy) LP and its lyrics - what I've missed (and can't find) is a pointer to the correct lyircs. BOTH my Japanese editions have jibberish lyrics (as noted by a previous poster). Can anyone help here (private email is fine). Thanks, - Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:06:09 -0000 From: "James Maggs" Subject: What's wrong with London? Hello all, I've read several times of Fripp's dislike of concert appearences in London, UK. Can anyone explain this? Any specific instances? As a London resident, eager to see the great Krim again, can I offer this word of encouragement for future appearences? Expect nothing. -James ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:01:28 +0100 From: "Michael Liermann" Subject: Problems with MP3 encoding of KC material I recently sat down and converted the entire Frame by Frame box set to MP3 so it'd fit on a single CD (something I do fairly often so as to be able to take my own music along on business trips). Most pieces worked out fine, but a few songs (notably In the Court and Elephant Talk) were transformed into pure white noise no matter what sample frequency I worked with (128, 160 or 192 kbps). Activating normalisation didn't change anything about this. Is this a function of the encoder I used (Xing's Audio Catalyst), or is there something about those particular recordings that blows the MP3 psychoacoustic compression algorithm out of the water? Since a lot of the folk who contribute to this list seem very knowledgable about topics such as sound and studio engineering, I'm hoping someone here might be able to give me a clue as to what went wrong. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:19:20 +0100 From: "Michael Liermann" Subject: Re: Family Darryl wrote: > I have some questions about the band Family. > > 2) When did the band form, and is it still around? > > 3) Was Wetton a founder of the band, and what happened > to them after he left? Family formed in Leicester in 1967, with lineup Roger Chapman (vocals, went on to form the band Streetwalkers in 1974 which featured Mel Collins and Ian Wallace, then later solo work), Charlie Whitney (guitar,vocals), Jim King (sax & flute), Ric Grech (bass) and Harry Ovenall (drums). In 1969, John Weider (formerly an Animal) replaced Grech, who joined Blind Faith, and King was replaced by Poli Palmer. In 1971, Wetton joined the band to replace Weider. Wetton left in early 1973 and was replaced by Jim Cregan, and Tony Ashton replaced Palmer. The band split in late 1973. Roger Chapman still tours extensively in Europe, doing straight R&B material for the most part. I'm afraid I don't know what other ex-members of the band ended up doing. >1) Is any of their material currently available on CD? Both See For Miles and Castle have reissued several of Family's albums; the SFM re-releases generally feature bonus tracks. AFAIK, the albums available currently are: Music in a Doll's House (orig. release 1968) - SFM Entertainment (1969) - SFM A Song For Me (1970) - SFM Anyway (1970, quasi-live) - Castle Fearless (1971, Wetton on bass) - reissued first by SFM, later by Castle Bandstand (1972) - first reissue on SFM, later on Castle It's only a Movie (1973) - I *think* this was on SFM. I know it's available though. Recorded after Wetton left the band. Thanks to M.C. Strong's excellent _Great Rock Discography_, which was somewhat useful in answering this question. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:31:10 -0700 From: "Proginoskes" Subject: "The Sun Is Shining" bass tab + chords I was looking for a song to try out Seventh String's Transcribe! program, and I decided on "The Sun Is Shining" (among others). Included at the end of this e-mail is the chords to the song, as well as bass tablature. (I don't think there are any guitar parts for this song.) As usual, use an even-spaced font like Courier to view. Enjoy! -- Christopher "HeKcman" P.S. The last name of one of the students in one of my classes is Crismon. And no, I didn't slip up when calling role! "The Sun Is Shining" by Michael Giles, from the Giles, Giles and Fripp album Bass tabbed and chords added by Christopher Heckman using Seventh String's Transcribe! utility Usual disclaimor: This is the arranger's interpretation of the song. It may be used for learning and playing. Copies cannot be used for profit. The bass and Nicky Hopkin's piano are what drive this song. Included are the bassline and the chords. There isn't actually much guitar in this song. Note that the timing is not indicated by the spacing; consult the song for rhythm. Also, lower case letters represent single notes, and upper case letters represent chords. A 'g' above or below a note indicates a ghost note (very short duration). Intro: piano flourish G slowly: (piano only) (C/G) C D(7) Gsus4 G [tacet] F (Em/G) C/E The sun is shin- ing, but it's raining in my heart, C Am/C Fsus4 F [tacet] Em/G Cmaj7 G C (add 9) So please come back, dear, and we'll make a brand new start. (C Bm Am) G Am Bm C G--------------------------------------------------------------- D--------------------------------------------------------------- A--3-2-----0------5-----------g0----2---3---------------3------- E--------------3-------3------3----------------3---------------- Because of you, the flowers will not bloom (will not bloom), c b a G d g Am Bm C g c G-5--------------------------------------------------------------- D-g--------------------------------------------------------------- A--3-2-----0-------5----------g0--2--------3-----------------3---- E-------------3--------3------3---------------------3------------- Because of you, the clouds obscure the moon (obscure the moon), Am Bm C D Em F G----------------------------------------------------------- D---------------------------------g0-2--3----------4-------- A-g----0---2----3--------3--------3-----------3------------- E-23-----------------3-------------------------------------- The day will come, I hope it's very soon (very soon), F#7 G A A E F#m G G-------------------------------------------------------------------- D-----4---5----7-----------7-------0-2-g4---5-----------0----5------- A-------------------5------------------0----------------------------- E-------------------------------------------------------------------- The day that brings the sun right into June (right into June). G A B C D Gsus4 G F Em/G C G------------------------------------------------------------- D-----------------0------------------------------------------- A-----0--2----3----------------------------------------3------ E--3-----------------3-------------------1-------3---------3-- The sun is shin- ing, but it's raining in my heart, C C7 F Cmaj7 G7 C (add 9) G---------------------------------------------------------------------- D----------------3-----3----------------------------------------------- A----3------3--------------------------3----------------3-----------3-- E---------------------------------------------3---------------3--0----- So please come back, dear, and we'll make a brand new start. c b a G d g Am Bm C g c I want to hear your voice so tenderly (tenderly), b a G d g Am Bm C g c The voice that says you'll love no one but me (no one but me), g Am Bm C g c D Em F c f# My love is stronger than the raging sea (the raging sea), F# G a d a E F#m G d g So tell me now, you hear this urgent plea (this urgent plea). Repeat chorus ("The sun is shining ..."). The first line is spoken "freely", with the music matching up as indicated. The second line is sung, slowed down at the end. C D/A Gsus4 G F G C G---------------------------------------------------------------------- D---------------------------------------------------------------------- A-----3-----0-----------------------------------------------------3---- E-----------------------3------3-----------1--------3------------------ The sun, the sun is shining, but it's raining, raining in my heart, C C7 F C/G G7 C G------------------------------------------------------------------|| D--------------------3-----------3---------------------------------|| A--------3------3----------3--------------------------------3------|| E--3---------------------------------------3------3----------------|| So please come back, dear, and we'll make a brand new start. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:21:17 +0000 From: Andreas Schoter Subject: Suggested Listening I can't remember them being mentioned here, so I'd like to put forward the album "American Don" by the band Don Caballero as suggested listening for folk into KC. I followed it up after reading a couple of reviews. I've only just got the album, but on a first listening, I reckon it's well worth checking out: complex instrumental trio rock. Enjoying it as I type :-) Andreas ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #800 ********************************