Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #798 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 798 Wednesday, 10 January 2001 Today's Topics: Reminiscent of Fripp. Robert Fripp solo 24-bit re-masters? Brian Eno in Movies Re: use of "brass" Why does it taKe so long to liKe it? It must be rock hard ... Eno in Movies Deja Vrooom DVD Problem? young crimson folly Hello, I noticed a few things... Replying some more to a Young Crim Enthusiast Giles Giles & Fripp lyric sheet Remastering and new digital audio formats Family Eno in the movies ENO in the movies DGM product suggestion A Young Person's Attempt To Understand Frippery Re Responses To My Postings Re: More mistranslation-McDonald & Giles Re: Crimson/Eno in Movies second hand Re: Eno (was Crimson) in the movies Re: Notes From A Young Crimson Enthusiast ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 14:33:45 +0000 From: James Beard Subject: Reminiscent of Fripp. Hey there. I was watching a recently Steely Dan video with music from Two Against Nature as well as older material. Anyway, there is something interesting I thought I would mention. Watching the guitarist Walter Becker, I was struck by how much he reminded me of none other than Robert Fripp. Apart from the fact that he stands whilst playing, his general demeanour, body language, facial expressions and even, to a certain extent, the way he plays the guitar is quite similar to Fripp. Anyone out there know what I'm talking about? I wonder whether Fripp and Becker are aware of each others' work ... James. -- James Beard Studio Assistant - Qtwo http://www.ubcmedia.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 09:49:26 -0500 From: Jack Lightfoot Subject: Robert Fripp solo 24-bit re-masters? Greetings: Kudos to RF on all of the KC catalog 24-bit bit re-masters. The sound is awesome! I can't wait for the next three re-issues ("Discipline", "TOAPP" and "Beat"). I was wondering if RF has any plans to 24-bit re-master many of his classic 70's/80's solo projects, such as, the Fripp/Eno collaborations or, "Exposure", "Let the Power Fall", "God save the King" etc.? I know "Exposure" got a re-master in 1989, but re-mastering has come a long way in the last decade. Thanks! --J.B. Lightfoot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:05:51 -0500 From: bruce higgins Subject: Brian Eno in Movies >Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 02:21:09 +0100 >From: "Robert S." >Subject: Brian Eno in Movies > >In response to Matthew's challenge: > >I've got just two references to Eno, 'cause I'm not a frequent moviegoer: >- his composition credit - I think it was in "Trainspotting" >- his music being played - I believe it was "Thursday Afternoon" (or "Music >for Airports"?) on M. Rourke's hi-end player in "9 1/2 Weeks". OK, I'm not entirely sure why this is being discussed on ET, but I need a break... IIRC, the cover of 'Before and After Science' was prominently displayed in "High Fidelity" Eno's music is intermittently featured in the truly bizarre Peter Greenaway film "The Falls". I can't think of a third one right away, so I'll submit my favorite album cover appearance in film: in one of the 'Wallace and Grommit' shorts, the top LP in Grommit's record collection is Lee Morgan's "The Search for the New Land". How cool is that? Finally, some OKCC. I have posted a request to the DGM guestbook that the Dance Remix of "Sleepless" be included in the 3oaPP remaster. I encourage anybody else who thinks this is a wonderful idea to publically join in this opinion. :-) Happy new year, B___ p.s. have you listened to Improv: Munchen lately??? that track kicked my butt all throughout the holiday break...Heavy ConstruKction indeed! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:18:11 -0600 From: Jeff Oaster Subject: Re: use of "brass" There are, of course, many equally superb prog bands which "focused onthe use of saxophone - both on studio and mainly live?" Such as,............... Soft Machine, Van Der Graaf Generator, Urban Sax, Etron Fou Leloublan, Albert Marcoeur, etc. etc > And don't forget about Magma (or at least the first four studio albums > that is). Excessive use of horns, minimal guitar, thunderous rythym section > and, of course, a made-up language ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:55:16 -0600 From: Tim Church Subject: Why does it taKe so long to liKe it? A long time ago, I remember reading an interview with Mr. Fripp in which he mentioned that he thought it took about TWO YEARS for the average listener to catch up to whatever new musical territory he was travelling in. I have always kept this idea in mind, whenever I'm not sure about challenging new music. I consider myself pretty open-minded regarding new music, but it still happens. For instance... ProjeKt Two disappointed me so much that I sold it to a 2nd hand shop. I just didn't like it at all. This Christmas, my brother gave me 'The ProjeKts' boxed set. And now I love that very same music! 'Thrak' hit me the same way. And now I feel similar feelings about 'The ConstuKtion of Light'. But it's growing on me. I know this has something to do with my prejudiced expectations. But... Why is this so? Is this a necessary fact of life? It must be hard on Fripp and friends, to always be a couple of years out of sync with the world... being on the 'Perpetual Cutting Edge', as they are. tim church ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 16:04:46 -0600 From: "David F. Snyder" Subject: It must be rock hard ... >Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:00:02 +1300 >From: "Geoff" >Subject: It Must Be Hard To Be A Rock Musician It must be rock hard ... either the heart or the brain of "Geoff." Give Fripp a break, man, he's not whining (someone is, though). As I understand it, it's hard to live in New Zealand, too. Focus on that, or do something creative yourself. David > > >Thanks, >Geoff > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:27:54 EST From: Oidtman at aol dot com Subject: Eno in Movies Wasn't there a movie called Breathless that starred Richard Gere with music from the same (not sure if it was a Fripp or Eno or both collaboration). I believe the Apollo album was the soundtrack from the documentary. I also think I heard Music for Airports in the United Terminal at O'Hare in Chicago. Of course this is all history so I hope my facts are at least close to being correct. Keep listening. cao ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 16:29:37 -0600 From: Lewis W Beard Subject: Deja Vrooom DVD Problem? ET, I finally got a DVD player (Toshiba SD 2150 or something like that ...) and the first DVD I bought was Deja Vrooom from my local Best Buy. I also got a converter box from radio shack because my current tv only has coax input ... it is that old. Anyway, while the DVD (as well as the other 12 dvds I have since purchased) is perfectly great otherwise, I do have one problem with Deja Vroom. In track 2 (which I think is "Vrooom"), there are 7 camera angles. Early in the song where Trey Gunn is doing a slow, low melody on his (whatever it is), I can't actually hear any of his notes. If I switch to either his or Tony's angle, I hear it. It makes me wonder what else I am not hearing. Is this a known problem with the DVD, or is there something going on like those notes being played on some imaginary surround sound speaker that the player doesnt know I dont have? :) Sorry about the convoluted english on that one. Any insight? Lewis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:52:30 EST From: Obelisk123 at aol dot com Subject: young crimson folly 1st time i ever heard Crimson wuz at a 7-11 in the early 80's.. Believe it or not. I wuz around 15 or so.. My buddies n I were playing a vid game in the corner n a couple was buying beer n such.. They were arguing, I guess about the show they were about to attend.. She told him that she wuz not going.. She was pissed. U could tell. N she walked out.. He looked all a fluttered n returned the beer to the cooler.. Myself, being a wise ass it were, spat out to him in a teenage tough boy manner.., " I will take those tickets if yr not going to use them.." He took a look at me n to my surprise handed me a ticketron envelope.. Told me I probably would enjoy it.. That was it.. He split.. None of my friends I was with would take the drive..N they were not thrilled about the bus either.. Everyone had learner's permits at that time n could not drive at night.. I was determined to go so I called a friend of mine who was always up too no good.. He said yes.. Long story short.. We went to see to see the band by shall i say- borrowing my parents car..They were at a wedding..or sumthang.. N drove down to the city... It was either the Beat tour or Discipline.. The show was at the Pier venue in NYC.. I was at that experimentation stage ( if ya know what I mean) so I wuz a bit out of it.. But I was hooked from the start.. Fripp blew me away.. The Drumming.. Etc.. Aggressive vibes n complex ideas .. I wuz more into metal n the Grateful Dead at that time. Elephant talk cracked my egg. When I look back at the experience I am glad I saw them without hearing a bit of their music.. They inspired me to continue guitar lessons. N also opened my ear to off time stuff n dissonance... That summer( or around that time) I also saw Zappa n Santana . I also got my hands on a bunch of older crimson on records.. I did alot of camping listening to Lizard n Islands. Actually turned a bunch of folks onto it.. Great thing it led me to other progressive acts..From Gentle Giant to UK.. N when I found Gong.... That wuz it.. I am now a true freak.. Bless u all.. Great times.. As the egg cracked I became aware... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 19:18:35 -0500 From: Bill Fogg Subject: Hello, I noticed a few things... Hello, fellow Crimheads--- I've noticed some things over the last year or so. 1.) If anybody out there has heard of Matthew Sweet and has a copy of his 1990 album "Girlfriend" should compare the end of the second to last song ('Holy Land') with the ending of the second to last song on "Thrak" ('Thrak Thrak'). They are almost identical. (I apologize for the song titles if they are incorrect--I don't have either CD nearby. Sorry.) 2.) Has anybody seen the John Cusack movie called "High Fidelity"? In a couple of scenes in the record store, the LP cover of "Discipline" is clearly visible. I was pleasantly surprised. 3.) A couple of years ago, I was flipping (Fripping? Sorry, bad pun I couldn't resist.) through the radio stations and came across a rock station from Springfield, Massachusetts (102.1) that was doing a "guess-the-song" contest and the music they chose for the intro was "Dig Me". However, when it was Bill Bruford's birthday they celebrated by playing "In the Court of the Crimson King". UGH! 4.) Several years ago MTV had a cartoon called "The Mask". I caught an ad for it and the first half of the music sounded just like the intro "Sartori in Tangiers". Then it went to some crappy modern music. UGH! 5.) About a year ago, when I tried to log on to this site, I typed www.elephanttalk.com and was sent to some Hong Kong long distance internet service. 6.) Just to say that at my wedding almost three years ago, one of the last songs, at my request, was "Walking on Air". That's all I have. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 20:59:00 EST From: Robbriryon at aol dot com Subject: Replying some more to a Young Crim Enthusiast Hiya All, I can't tell you the pleasure I received reading Geoff's letter about being only 16 and becoming a new fan to the ranks of us Crim fans. I'm 44 now, and have been a Crim listener since I was about 14 or so. As a matter of interest, I actually seen Crimson performing in Philadelphia in the very early seventies or late sixties during what I guess was the Lizard tour, because the only song I can still vividly remember from that evening was Circus. The rest of the concert was kind of a blur due to the chemically altered state I was forced into by my fellow audience members. Ah the joys of youth... Anyway Geoff, there are no easy answers unfortunately to initiating an individual to the joys of great music. At least in my experience anyway. Where I work, I have the great fortune of being able to listen to music all day long. And as the manager, it's usually my music that is being played. Today for example was Discipline followed by Starless and Bible Black and then Thrak. I've been playing the various incarnations of Crimson for them for 6 months now, and though they don't badger me and heckle me (through fear for their job I would imagine..lol), I have yet to create any converts among them. So all you can do, is stick to your values and your likes, which I am observing are very high indeed!!, and just hope you find a friend with equal tastes with whom you can spent countless hours of listening pleasure with. It might help to get the Crimson live in Tokyo video. Watching them perform creates a whole new level of appreciation of the band. And on that note, I'd like to thank you all who gave me the Discipline Global Music website. I received my video 2 weeks ago and have watched it many many times already (especially last night when the Eagles were getting spanked my the Giants..seemed to put me in a better mood..lmao). @ words of advice if you don't own the video yet..GET IT!! What a truly remarkable concert video. The first few songs are a bit MTV'ish in their quick editing and camera jumping around, but once the camera settles down, it is just fantastic! Thanks again all! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 02:04:57 +0000 From: Mr Tea Subject: Giles Giles & Fripp lyric sheet This from "Proginoskes" > I have worked on getting the lyrics from this album, through repeated > listenings. (I don't know of anyone who has the "real" lyrics.) My Japanese pressing of the album (King Records K16P-9081, 1976) has a lyric sheet insert with words in English & Japanese. I scanned & OCR'd the English stuff for Lucasz Drozd, who posted the original request. Anyone else here who wants a copy of the lyrics (text file), feel welcome to email me... mrtea at mac dot com Digging out the album to scan the lyrics for Lucasz prompted me to give it a spin. Whatta gas. It's astounding how fully-formed the young Mr Fripp's guitar sound was, even at that early stage. Now I think I'll give 'Babs & Babs' a spin. Cheers Mr Tea -- Brew of the day: South African Redbush ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 18:59:07 -0800 From: "Brian Pearson" Subject: Remastering and new digital audio formats Greetings: I see that Mr. Fripp and the DGM crew are once again at work remastering the back KC catalog to higher resolution digital formats. Bravo! The CDs generated from the higher-rez remasters will undoubtedly show audible improvements over previous releases. The problem is, under current plans the new masters will STILL have to be downsampled to the 44.1kHz/16 bit CD standard for release on conventional CD, so much of the higher resolution will be lost. But friends, "perfect sound forever" is about to get WAY better! New consumer digital formats are waiting in the wings, though it may be a couple of years before they gain the acceptance of the recording industry and the music-buying public. Sony's "Super Audio CD" bitstream technology and DVD-Audio (96kHz sampling/24-bit word depth) offer VASTLY superior sound to conventional CD, so some of us may wish to wait a bit before purchasing yet another edition of our favorite recordings. Currently only a few "audiophile" record labels are issuing discs in the new format. These discs contain two data layers and are playable on conventional CD players, but not to their full advantage. Only a few equipment manufacturers are making SACD and DVD-A players. These players will play conventional CDs (with "upsampling" to improve the sonics) but are still quite expensive and not readily available. DVD-Video players will, of course, play DVD-A discs at full resolution, but presently many of the mass-market models suffer from inferior D/A converters and analog output sections. Hopefully the equipment makers will get together and establish standards for "universal" players compatible with ALL the formats, thereby preventing another absurd "format war" like VHS/Beta or the "Quadrophonic" debacle of the early 1970s. I am hoping DGM will see fit, shortly, to make the reissues available in whichever of the new formats they find superior, but utilizing the double-data-layer technology so as to be back-compatable with existing CD players. Surely it would be in the commercial and esthetic interest of such a forward-looking company to embrace the next step in technology. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 22:55:58 -0500 (EST) From: Darryl Subject: Family Happy 3rd Millenium Everyone!, I have some questions about the band Family. I recently read a interview with Syd Barrett on the Web from 1970-71 and the interviewer asked him what music he had been listening to since he left Pink Floyd. He replied that he didn't really listen to much current music, but said he thought Family was interesting. That got me thinking.....I have never heard this band before. So my questions are these: 1) Is any of their material currently available on CD? 2) When did the band form, and is it still around? 3) Was Wetton a founder of the band, and what happened to them after he left? Later, Darryl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:41:55 -0500 From: "jesscott" Subject: Eno in the movies To Owen K. and Robert S., and everyone else in The Court: I wasn't aware of the Skysaw reference in DOGS IN SPACE, (I'll have to see if Netflix.com has it on DVD). Also didn't know the TRAINSPOTTING composition credit (only saw it once under less than desirable circumstances), or the film GLITTERBUG. I did immediately notice Music for Airports on Rourke's stereo in 9+1/2 WEEKS, as he had Basinger crawling around picking up money in her mouth. (Yech.) The composition credit I was thinking of was The Prophet's Theme in David Lynch's underrated DUNE. Odd considering that one of my least favorite commercial crud bands, Toto did the rest of the music. The other obscure reference was a scene in the movie ECHO PARK. Tom Hulce is moving into Susan Dey's apartment, if I remember correctly, and he is carrying a record of Another Green World under his arm up a flight of stairs. Only one scene, unlike the ubiquitous Discipline cover in High Fidelity. A guy named Jim e-mailed me that Christina Ricci does a tap-dance to Moonchild in a 1998 film BUFFALO 66. This is being shipped to me as I write. I am having a real difficult time visualizing this. We'll Let You Know. Matthew K. Smith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 01:51:15 -0500 From: David Vella Subject: ENO in the movies Eletalkers, <<"jesscott" wrote Here is a trivia question in this vein: Name three references to Brian Eno in film.>> I can add one reference if we are allowed to count educational videos. There is a BBC produced video from the late 80's called "The Creation of the Universe". As you might guess it is an educational video about Physics, specifically about subatomic particles, the four forces of nature, and the first few seconds after the big bang. At several places they make very effective use of the David Byrne & Brian Eno album "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts" as background music. A perfect choice! If you get a chance to see this video, it is well worth it. One of the best educational videos around. Cheers, David Vella PS Part of the video includes scenes from a lecture by Steven Hawking at Cal. Tech. in 1985. In the audience is Murray Gellman, the physicist who coined the term 'quark' (after a line in James Joyce's "Finnegan's Wake".) (Wasn't there a six-degrees of separation link from Gellman to Fripp discussed in this Newsletter some months ago?) I also was in the audience of Hawking's lecture, but, unlike Gellman, didn't manage to get filmed by the BBC! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 02:07:26 -0500 (EST) From: DANNYSTAMPER at webtv dot net (DANNY STAMPER) Subject: DGM product suggestion To help deal with the photographic bootlegging problem, how about making legitimate photos and posters of RF and company available to the public, with the members of KC past and present collecting full royalties? I for one would definitely be interested since KC is arguably my favorite group, and I have no posters to hang on my wall. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 22:37:28 +1300 From: "Geoff" Subject: A Young Person's Attempt To Understand Frippery Hi all, I had/have an idea of attempting (I would not say understand , yet) to understand the Frippery at the discipline global mobile website. So for the next following editions of Elephant Talk I will discuss some of his (Fripp's) interesting words. The following frippery I think describes a possible reason why my friends don't give King Crimson a chance. "Expectation closes our ears to what is happening in the moment" Some of my friends have preconceived perceptions of my music. So while it plays to them they are expecting that is going to be weird and horrible. This expectation 'closes their ears to what is happening in the moment (The song by KC playing on my cd player)' Without any expectation I think my friends would at least give any music a chance but in a world of expectation this is impossible. I have to say (in my opinion) I totally agree with Fripp's comment. Do you tend to agree? Thanks, Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:15:22 +0100 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Re Responses To My Postings A few responses to Re My Postings. 1) Owen Keenan asked the wonderful question How High Can You Buy? Well... very high... within my 21 months of Crimsoning I have laid my hands (and my money) on exactly 108 Crim- and Crim-related CDs and LPs. Well... I don't afford a new car every year or expensive holidays, in case one wonders. 2) Craig: Yeah, SICK IS GOOD!!! Sick means... well, not the usual's listener's taste. And for the brass/reed/prog info: Thanks alot. Now off for some BLUE NIGHTS... Markus Gnad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 07:21:01 -0800 (PST) From: Kazuhiko Saiga Subject: Re: More mistranslation-McDonald & Giles Hi Richard and all ETers. I am Japanese live in Japan. Here I explain circumstance of Japanese CD/LP issue. When foreign CD issue as Japanese made not import, Japanse record company usually attach to Words Card of original language, Japanese translation card and Review Card. When they cannot get original words from artist. Sometimes they hire a person who can hear words of music. Someone Japanese or someone native. So often mis-hearing happen. I have original McDonald and Giles LP issued in early '70's Japanese made. This LP's words card have same mistake you pointed out, 'The some shone sill turn up green'. But Flight of the Ibis's openning are 'look into your eyes, your eyes look away'.There is no 'tea'. And I have no idea about 'tea'. Kaz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:54:47 EST From: Enoboy at aol dot com Subject: Re: Crimson/Eno in Movies >>Here is a trivia question in this vein: Name three references toBrian Eno in film. (Hint: one is a composition credit; Let us never forget the work Eno did on one of the worst Sci-fi films of all time, Dune!!!! I'll bet he'd like to forget. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 19:32:24 -0700 From: "Pascal Samain" Subject: second hand Hi friends, I'm now 42 but a very ancient Crimson fan. Recently there was a post about USA lp. A few days later, I've found an "Island tape" in a second hand's shop in Brussels. It's an italian release, with a mistake ... they've printed ... "Dark's tongues in aspic" ... Well, funny enough ... Pascal Samain Belgium ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:09:30 -0500 (EST) From: Jonathan Subject: Re: Eno (was Crimson) in the movies "jesscott" sez: > > Here is a trivia question in this vein: Name three references to > Brian Eno in film. (Hint: one is a composition credit; one is some of his > music being played; one is a character carrying one of his record albums.) In "Slacker," a rather strange independent film, there is a scene where one of the characters enters a cafe and is offered the chance to pick and read a card from the Oblique Strategies deck. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:22:29 -0500 (EST) From: Jonathan Subject: Re: Notes From A Young Crimson Enthusiast "Geoff" sez: > > Should I bother to try and help other people my age to discover King > Crimson? Of course! That's what musicheads do. BTW, I enjoyed reading about your experiences as a young crimhead. The frustrating thing about discussing Crimson is that people assume that they are basically a nostalgia act (by this I mean that it is assumed that they will play a spectrum of their music - new and old - and it is further assumed that the audience will only respond to the old stuff). The attitude is understandable - given their longevity, Crim is pretty unique in this regard - but annoying none the less. Yours, Jonathan Krall ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #798 ********************************