Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #794 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 794 Friday, 22 December 2000 Today's Topics: Re: THRAK Box TGD (etc.) Deja Vroom? Top 6 KCCC improv titles - seven teas Re: Heavy C improv titles audiences & percentages T. Levin in Stereophile Re: odditties USA reisssue Re: odditties Re: The Deception Of The Thrush Great Deciever, Women, No Photos Adrian Belew Birthday Tribute Fripp and contemporary music in the seventies Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays! Russian book dedicated to King Crimson HCKC Mystery Once again from Pat ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:19:21 EST From: Sylsteph at aol dot com Subject: Re: THRAK Box Peter Law wrote : > > On a another topic-- I recently came across (and purchased)a KC item I was > unaware existed: The Thrak CD in a paper sleeve packaged with the souvenir > Thrak tourbook inside an oblong silver metal hinged box. > > Any idea how many of these were produced? Is it unusual for me to have > found one so recently suddenly appearing in music store I frequent? It is strange you have found it recently, as I also have just found it today in a music store in Paris ! They told me they had the 30 last copies of what is apparently a limited edition of THRAK with a Gold CD & the magnificent Tour Program. I knew nothing about its existence... Only 10.000 copies were available ! It's very surprising that such item could be on sale six years after ! Anyway, it's a good bargain... Stephane Fougere www.multimania.com/traversesmag ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:21:42 +0000 From: Mr Tea Subject: TGD (etc.) It's no good. The recent enthusing about this boxed set (The Great Deceiver) has flushed me out. Is it currently available in the UK? I boarded the good ship Fripp in 1973 after being blown away by Larks Tongues (so to speak) Sad to say, despite some inspiring moments in the intervening years, I've never quite derived the same profound satisfaction from a KC (or Fripp) record as I did from Larks Tongues and it's two stable-mates, Starless & Red. What coherence. What focus. What strength. I wonder what my reaction would have been if 'the construKction of light' had been my first King Crimson experience. Would I have been similarly blown away? Is it just prolonged over-exposure to the Fripp canon that makes the more recent work often sound like a compendium of second-hand Frippisms? Sticking with the 1973/4 season, Marcin Gokieli's KC/Sabs comparison in ET 792 put me in mind of another Crimson/Sabbath 'deja vu' experience that has niggled at me for more than 20 years... That fabulous guitar sound that kicks in after the second chorus of 'One More Red Nightmare' (2.06). There's an EXTRAORDINARILY SIMILAR section on the track 'Sabbra Cadabra', from the Sabs' fifth, 'Sabbath Bloody Sabbath', which also kicks in after the second chorus. It's little more than a key change away from being identical, apart from the fact that a cheesy synth comes in over the top of it almost immediately, completely wrecking the vibe. Was/is Tony Iommi an acknowledged Fripp-watcher? Mr Tea -- Brew of the day: China Yunnan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:26:11 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Deja Vroom? Top 6 KCCC Merry Christmas to all of you whose writing I've enjoyed over the years and thanks to Toby for giving us this forum. I'm seeking some input on "Deja Vroom", having just bought a DVD player and home theater system (exploding spaceships are really a gas). I already own Live In Japan on VHS. Are there enough differences to justify buying "Deja Vroom"? I've read the rather orgasmic reviews on the releases page but I also remember a lot of complaining on these pages. Email me direct or if you think your opinion is worth the time of the ET gang send it here. I read every issue so I'll catch it either way. I've also had a thought that might be interesting to get into. Now that there are so many collector's club releases (I am a member and have them all), when people start new are they able to pick and choose (based on availability of course) from the older releases. The premise I'm getting at is this. If you are a member who has a friend joining, which releases would you recommend? Factors might be sound quality or uniqueness (compared to general releases). I would include Nashville Sessions and Vroom Sessions because they both are performances of music unavailable elsewhere even though (and because) they are in a raw state. This is less true of Vroom sessions as the music here is more closely related to pieces that were eventually finished. I would have to omit Marquee based on sound quality despite it being the only version of "Trees" and a live "I Talk To The Wind". The original band is better represented by Epitaph. "Live At The Summit" is a must because of the sound quality for it's age. This is, in my opinion the best live record of King Crimson as evil horny bebop band. I prefer it to anything I've heard by the original line up based on sound quality alone. If McDonald, Lake and Giles were superior to this group there is not a recording I have heard by them that is good enough to convey this. The arrangements are also unique due to the unexplained mellotron abscence. While I enjoyed Jacksonville, the sound quality makes it miss the cut. If it was a decent recording I prefer the song list. Live On Broadway (counts as two). Great document of the double trio. I am finding I really did not appreciate the benefits of two drummers until revisiting the double trio. The quartet definately gives each individual more freedom but I love concentrating on the controlled madness coming from Bill and Pat. For a sixth disc I would put in the Beat Club for a peek at the early Lark's lineup developing arrangements and our only record of Jamie Muir. Sound quality is mediocre but the material based on uniqueness and notes per square inch over rides this consideration. That's my six for a new member. What's yours, and don't just make a list. Why would this be the best six for your friend to order. I don't include some of my favorites due to the similarity to general releases. Happy Holidays Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:11:26 -0800 From: "Michael Britt" Subject: improv titles - seven teas As is on the P3 disc, long before I knew the title this was definetly my favoritte song. It is really quite a shame that only a few thousand people have heard this song, and probably only a few hundred realize the real beauty within. Probably only a dozen are in the same age group as I. (late teens, early twenties) Myself and someone in the guestbook once discussed the popping sounds during masque track 8, and to my suprise, Pat responded to it in his diary. He said that the song was an improv called '7 teas'. Later on, I was looking at one of Pat's pages with the rest of the P3 titles. There was another tune called 'five forks' with lo and behold, is in either 5/4 or 5/8 (I dont know how to tell) also, 'seven teas' is in 7/4 (or 7/8). Possibly they just looked at an item in the room at the time, and added the beat count. Nine Couches, for example. I still haven't heard the Heavy Construkction version of Seven Teas but all i can say is it better be REALLY long, REALLY good, and mixed well!!! I like the way Masque was produced maybe ten times better than the way TCOL and PX were made to sound like. I know for the most part Adrian did TCOL, and Pat did PX, but one cannot ignore that as far as tone goes, they still sound REALLY similar. What was different (in the mixing process) with Masque? The Vdrums sound alot fuller, the entire mood sounds darker... maybe with the absence of vocals he was allowed to have things mixed in a different way, as far as volume and eq and compression goes... I have no idea! help me out here!!! next album: Studio versions of 'Thrush' and 'Seven Teas' of epic porportions... and maybe even vocals! Huh? Huh? They threw in the projekctions in Frying Pan and Tcol, do they have plans of doing things like that again? It would be nice. I'm not the kind of person who makes suggestions as to what they should do, but we can't help but have wishlists! mike http://dusknj.iuma.com/ we're finally giving a song away for free! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:10:03 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Re: Heavy C improv titles In ET 793 Laurent wrote: > Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:01:44 +0200 > From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) > Subject: Heavy C improv titles > > >1. Sapir (Paris) > > In one of his latest diary entries, Pat Calls it "Sirap". ???? The Heavy ConstruKction booklet has a typo. This should have been "Sirap", which is "Paris" backward. According to Pat, the title was suggested by Robert. > >7. Beatiful [or is it Beautiful as it is written in the release > >page?]Rainbow (is it because Adrain says "Beautiful evening"?) > > I distinctly hear "Beautiful Rainbow" somewhere in the middle of > the track And "Beautiful Rainbow" is what it should be. Again a typo in the booklet. The booklet contains info about which tracks came from which shows, but a few tracks are not indicated. Two of these are the "Lights Please" tracks, which Pat indicates in his diary are from Prague, "with some pocket sampler of Trey & I [Pat] at the Musical Instrument Museum in Vienna." Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:37:50 EST From: Elfinster at aol dot com Subject: audiences & percentages In a message dated 12/21/2000 1:45:52 PM, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: << I'm going to go out on a limb and say "that's who tends to like prog." What does mostly mean? 90%? 65%? Would one express wonder that a Snoop Doogy Dogg show had a "mostly" black audience? Or that a Barry Manilow audience was largely female? Or that a Buddy Guy concert will be mostly white? >>>even in a city like washington dc, where the white population is >>>clearly in the minority. They are only the minority in the city limits. The existence of trains and highways renders show location meaningless. >> for the sake of clarification, when i said "mostly" in reference to the % of black audience in a king crimson concert, i mean somewhere around less than 5% of the total audience. i have never seen in any concert of k.c. a number that goes beyond the 5%. granted it is an estimation, since i do not stand at the door profiling the audience. as for a snoop doogy dogg... i don't know what one would express. but i think it would be interesting to analyze his audience in terms of ethnic/racial makeup given the fact that (according to most figures released by the music industry) over 2/3 of the rap music purchased in the states is bought by white, young (15-24) males. so if indeed the audience were mostly black i would indeed be curious about the reasons behind that. best regards carlos schroder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:47:02 -0500 From: Thomas Kozal Subject: T. Levin in Stereophile This months Stereophile Magazine (a snotty $6.95 list price mag of stereo systems that only investment bankers or rock stars can afford), has an interview with Tony Levin. It is mostly about his personal, high-priced Linn Stereo system, and in how it allows him to really hear things he could not hear on crap systems. Not much discussion about KC, except for the authors out-of-date comments about TL being on every KC album since the 80s'. And this is a current mag. You can probably read it while standing at the newstand, saving those hard earned dollars for upcoming KC product. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:01:29 +1000 From: "Keenan, Owen" Subject: Re: odditties "Cameron Devlin" wrote; [>>No, what I'm refering to are pecularities such >>as the double trio + special guest Greg Lake performing 'Cat Food' >>circa >>95... Er.. did that ever actually happen? I ask because everything else you mentioned has, so where did this one come from?] It *WAS* mentioned in an ET review sometime shortly after KC re-formed as the double-trio. Of course, it may have been a hoax (I didn't subscribe then, merely occasionally browsed through FTP... I think this was when ET was known as DISCIPLINE???) cheers, O! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:19:29 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: USA reisssue Fripp's diary entry is all well and good, but I couls swear that David Singleton reported he'd already remastered it a year or so ago. -S. "Who else has kill filed me? Laura in Space I know has, but who else? Just wondering." -- foultongue at home dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:40:10 +1000 From: "Keenan, Owen" Subject: Re: odditties [regarding the alleged GL + KC performance circa '95] I've just remembered that at the time of the posting which first mentioned this, there were comments about how old (and fat) GL looked compared to the then current members of KC. I think he may have had a beard at the time??? NB. these are not my comments about GL, purely paraphrasings dragged out of memory, quite possibly slightly distorted due to the effects of age!!!!! cheers (again), O! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:59:51 -0000 From: "Joanna Sprezyna" Subject: Re: The Deception Of The Thrush In Elephant Talk 791 "Trey Five Winds" wrote: >What exactly IS "The Deception Of The Thrush?"And how does this piece strike >you female fans especially? delicate living creature silence that smiles to me whenever I open myself beauty truth good transience tranquillity innocence always the same always different Happy Christmas to all ET-ers Joanna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:05:35 -0500 (EST) From: Jonathan Subject: Great Deciever, Women, No Photos Good evening hippies, 1. TGD: On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, wrote: > > Would love to hear other people's first experience of this 4 > CD epic...were you also simply blown away on an aural magic carpet?? Having heard some of this band on bootlegs (yes I am a bad person), I picked up The Great Deceiver soon after it came out. I did not plan on listening to it all in one sitting, but did exactly that. And yes, I was blown away (the bootleggers did not have the good sense for focus their editions on the improvs instead of the songs - TGD beats the boots, and the KCCC for that matter, up down and sideways). 2. KC and women - more data: Setting: I'm in my study, listening to Absent Lovers at fairly low volume. Julia (from other room): What is that noise? Me: King Crimson - do you want me to turn it up? Julia: That's OK, I thought someone was using power tools out in the yard. However, she did go with me to see P2 (she thought RF was "cute"). We have since broken up. Others have mentioned the dancing babe at the 1st 9:30 club show (I think of her whenever I hear a live recording of Larks IV). At the same show I met another female fan (a musician). I, for one, find the small number of women less distressing than the tendency of (most of) the KC audience to stand perfectly still. Even during Heroes. Astounding. 3. And now a complaint: Am I the only one who finds the "no photos" tracks on Heavy ConstruKction (and P2 for that matter) about as pleasant as the "no photos" threads in ET (that is, not very)? I feel that they mar an otherwise great listening experience (just as they did at the concert). DGM might as well include a scratch and sniff card so you can experience the aural ambience of the concert venue. Best regards, Jonathan Krall who was once singled out by a band (not KC, Mest) for being the only person dancing). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:56:05 -0800 From: belewbot Subject: Adrian Belew Birthday Tribute All are invited to view Adrian's birthday website at http://www.2xtreme.net/rhino. belewbot ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:17:53 +0100 (CET) From: etienne dos santos Subject: Fripp and contemporary music in the seventies Hello, I'd like to know if Fripp knew the work of Stockhausen or French "musique concrete" (Pierre Schaeffer, Pierre Henry).If someone can tell me about that. Thank you and sorry for my bad english etienne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:30:44 -0000 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays! Seasons' Greetings Everyone! Since it's bad form and sometimes not server-permitted to send graphics, please click on this link to see my Christmas / Seasonal greeting for 2000 to you! http://www.earthlight.net/Christmas2000.html Stephen Goodman EarthLight Productions * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios * The free Loop of the Week! http://www.mp3.com/StephenGoodman * New MP3 Releases! http://StephenGoodman.iuma.com * Even more MP3s! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:58:45 +0300 From: "Vladimir Kalnitsky" Subject: Russian book dedicated to King Crimson Yes! At last the first Russian book dedicated to KING CRIMSON "The Russificated KING CRIMSON" is published! Now it is on sale in the new musical shop "KAILAS" (10 Pushkinskaja Street, Saint Petersburg, Russia). Celebrations took place on December 17 in the "Fish Fabrique" club. You can see how it was in "The Court of the Crimson King" section of the "IndoorGames" site (http://www.indoorgames.hotmail.ru). The special guest was the band called BAKHADUR - the new project of local musicians Sergey Gasanov and Mikhail Ogorodov. Their ethno-electronic interpretation of "Starless" was a real groove. Merry Xmas Vladimir ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:02:57 +0100 From: "Markus Gnad" Subject: HCKC Mystery From Master Pat's Diary: Tuesday 19th. December, 2000 At home wrapping, DiN 8 on.- Prolific Joe- mystery solved! All this time I thought it was a good cup o'coffee. Payback=Lights Please (1 & 2) is from Prague, with some pocket sampler of Trey & I at the Musical Instrument Museum in Vienna. More payback down below. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:08:18 +0100 From: "Markus Gnad" Subject: Once again from Pat Also from Pats Diary: A little ET hornet help- My freaky spaceship mushroom is most likely the Notron, or Handsonic, or my Wave drum. Schopf: Thrush on the ProjeKct compilation CD is P3 (small slab) and P2 (big slab), the P3 version does not appear on the P. Box set, it is one of the left over mixes. Trey's "magic gadget"-the thrush sustain device- is a Smokey. Trey's rubberband bass is the Guild Ashbury; T.Lev used one on the Vrooom sessions and P4 as well. The bass on "Sirap" is Adrian, playing Trey's Ashbury. Trey is siraping the Ney, Hindu flutes and other drippy stuff. Robert does the Bells, Fretless Jaco, Shredder Dude and . . .. The applause (true). Titles? -We all try to chip in. Sirap is Paris from Trebor. More? - Check Roberts Radio at http://www.dnai.com/~obo/ubu/ubu_name.html Uboo contains nothing from ProjeKct 1. Me, Munyon, Trey, Roland & Notron made that Uboo Bass line(s). The pre-show announcements come from the voice of Laurie, not Robert. B.B. had second kick pedal, to the right of his primary pedal, to trigger samples. B.B. had a second drummer to his right too, but I think you mean the pedal. Mr. Munyon is a complicated man I met in 1995; he came by to rewire my patchbay. Ken Latchney is a fine engineer, so shutup- and go buy "OpZoptowa". Nashville 97 CC is not a board tape; Ken recorded us with microphones. The pops are not edits or "digital hell from pat". Some digital hash came from dat copies. Some more came later in my transfers. Some more just came from I dunno where. I took out lots but couldn't get em all, sorry. I thought DGM would've got the rest before they mastered, but apparently they didn't. I am still waiting for the CC 13 CD so I am unaware of any liner notes, can't help ya there. Munyon did NOT work on Nash 97 (but he did give me his Quadra & PT). It's number 13, whatcha expect ? I don't know why Heaven & Earth was priced so high, venue and sales tax take a big chunk, sorry about that too. No, Markus, I am defiantly NOT god. Derek Schulman (from G.G.) then President, signed the Rembrandts to Atco. Rich & Slug sang with Burt, Elvis, Julio & Barbs so it's only 3 steps. Sorry Pat M for including this here - I dunno how many ETers read your diary. Well if you are not God.... uhm.... what then....?? Have a nice Christmas Pat & yo all ETers! Markus ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #794 ********************************