Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #792 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 792 Wednesday, 20 December 2000 Today's Topics: Belew & Jars of Clay Who is "Prolific Joe"? Ownership issue Re: Fw: Heavy ConstrucKtion + titles Tony Levin = Amadeus? USA remaster news Translated extract from essay Crimson Odditties Re: Ladies Love KC Female reaction to KC music Re: essential holiday listening To stir up some chit-chat... Crim/sabs and on Monkey Business The future of "Thrush" earthbound and USA: a solution A non-KC flash event KCCC #14 vs #11 An *extremely* rare T-Lev recording Re: Crimson, Fripp, DGM and the Music Biz DGM Here's a cool quote. ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:36:03 +0200 From: Andrey Kravchuk Subject: Belew & Jars of Clay Dear ET'ers, Please don't think that's another annoying N degrees of separation question =) The fact is I'm interested in Adrian's connection to Jars of Clay. I have an mp3 in my collection named 'Jars of Clay - Flood (Adrian Belew remix)'. Indeed, the voice in the chorus is definitely Belew's. But. I haven't found any mention about their team-work or smth like that neither on the Belew's nor Jars' official website. So does anybody have any info about that? And one thing more not directly on the subject... I've seen the postings about russian releases of 'USA' and 'Earthbound' CDs... I can say that's definitely not a rare thing - i've seen these CDs in the store yesterday and nobody seemed interested in buying them. =) -- Rest begards, Andrey dushik(at)ukr.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 01:14:20 -0800 (PST) From: Vincent Beaney Subject: Who is "Prolific Joe"? Joseph Haydn I presume! John Fabiani wrote: Who is "Prolific Joe"? > Robert Fripp's diary has mentioned "Prolific Joe" > on a couple occasions. The context seems to suggest > Prolific Joe is a recording artist. > Anyone know who is "Prolific Joe"? > Thanks, > John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:29:33 -0500 From: Warren Melnick Subject: Ownership issue I am putting this question out to the members of this list because those here seem to be more aware than most of intellectual property rights and the arguments associated with them. Fact: I own a copy of RF's Exposure on Vinyl (LP). It was bought a long time ago, but I paid for it nonetheless. Assumption: None of the following questions refer to remasters. They merely are with respect to an album's transfer to CD. Questions: (1) If I own a CD, may rip it to MP3 or WMA to listen to personally on my MP3 player? (2) May I download said MP3 or WMA files for my own use if again I own the CD? (3) If I were to digitally capture the sound from an LP or tape that I legitimately own and burn my own CD, that I am within my rights to do so? If so, does that then allow me to rip or download MP3/WMA files of it? Which is leading up the question 4: (4) Does this then entitle me to download MP3s of Exposure from Napster so that I may listen to it on my MP3 player instead of having to pull the vinyl, clear all the DATs off of my turntable's cover, and put the vinyl on to listen to this album? Granted that this is all probably moot, as I have re-discovered this wonderful album after 15 years of not listening to it and will probably go out and buy the CD anyway. I am interested to hear everyone's take on this. I would also be most interested in hearing RF's own opinion on this as well. ---------------- Warren Melnick Director of Research and Development Astata Corporation ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:08:54 +0100 From: MAZURAIS01 Subject: Re: Fw: Heavy ConstrucKtion + titles Being at the Paris show, I can explain the multiple venues indications for Deception of the Thrush : at the end of the track you can hear TOAPP with the crowd singing Tony's part, well that was in Paris. There's also another sample of a crowd claping and shouting, I suppose this is from any of the other venues indicated. The titles from the improv CD (from HC) are often related to the venues. I found some of them, but not all: 1. Sapir (Paris) 2. Blastic Rhino (?) 3. ... 4. [not related to the venue but to the track Seizure in The Roar of P4] 5. Off and Back (Offenbach, that's the easiest) 6. More (And Less) (Rome and the zeLESte venue) 7. Beatiful [or is it Beautiful as it is written in the release page?]Rainbow (is it because Adrain says "Beautiful evening"?) 8. 7 Teas (?) 9. Nobody... (Beatles track, but they gave the answer :)) 10. Uboo (?) 11. [no relation] 12. Arena of Terror (played at the Arena) 13. ... Any clues ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:02:59 +0100 From: postaser at tin dot it Subject: Tony Levin = Amadeus? Dear KCrimheads, In ET #781, Dan Ceo , wrote about VH1 special on John Lennon. Lennon's comment on TL unique bass playing, "I hear you're good. Just don't play too many notes." reminds me of Austrian Emperor in movie Amadeus, commenting the premiere of Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serail (K. 384)(1782), just commissioned to Mozart. In Amadeus DVD, scene 10, You can hear Joseph II saying exactly: "My dear, young man, don't take it too hard. Your work is ingenious. It's quality work. And there are simply too many notes, that's all. Cut a few and it will be perfect. (and the little, bastard Genius answered: "Which few did you have in mind, Majesty?"). You can check it by watching again this wonderful movie, (8 Academy Awards in 1984) or at the site containing complete Amadeus script (as well as many others): www.hundland.com/scripts/Amadeus.txt Sergio Lombardi postaser at tin dot it ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:04:43 -0500 From: David Vella Subject: USA remaster news Dear Eletalkers (Appellation courtesy of Trey Gunn's diary), In #790 someone asked about the release of Earthbound & USA on CD, to which Dan replied 'no plans for Earthbound' (I'm paraphrasing), and: > As for USA, the plan had been to release a 2 CD set that on one CD > would contain the full 1974 Asbury Park show in it's raw form (i.e. sans > studio overdubs), and on the other CD, the original USA version remastered. > Once again plans for this keep getting pushed back or replaced by other > priorities, such as other releases or present day and future projects > and touring. But I'm sure many of our alert readers will have noticed the following additional tidbit from Robert's diary (from a couple of days ago): > We have booked time to remaster "Discipline", "Beat", "Three > Of A Perfect Pair" & USA during the second week of January. Great news! I hope it is still the plan to release the double CD version of USA that Dan mentions above. Cheers, David -- ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* David C. Vella Office: Harder Hall 219 Associate Professor of Mathematics 518-580-5291 Skidmore College dvella at skidmore dot edu Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 Home: 518-587-5363 web-page: http://www.skidmore.edu/~dvella/dcvbio1.htm ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* `I prove a theorem and the house expands, the windows jerk free to hover near the ceiling, the ceiling floats away with a sigh.' -Rita Dove US Poet Laureate (1993) 'Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things that escape those who dream only at night' -Edgar Allan Poe ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:11:22 +0100 From: "Marcus Enochsson" Subject: Translated extract from essay Hello dear reader! For the latest weeks Ive been quite busy writing an essay in the subject IT-Based Marketing at the University of Lund, Sweden. The reason I write to you about this at all is that the essay subject "Marketing of Artists on the web" made it possible for me to include my favourite rock band, and I did so. However, suffering from obviously having some brain parts switched off, I considered DGMs site as King Crimsons official one. Well, at least its the site that lies closest to being one, I guess. I divided the examining into two parts. One that dealt with the ten highest ranked national artists official websites in five countries (Sweden, USA, UK, Japan & South Africa), and one that dealt with other artists official websites that had some relevance for my essay [Ok, ok, I agree that dgm was chosen mainly for my love of KC, and that that love may be a bit too apparent, but good diaries and KCCC are indeed interesting features from the view of a marketer]. To share the KC-related part, I have translated it into English for you. I hope someone finds it interesting, DGM if no one else. Please forgive any corny usage of the English language. "King Crimson: www.disciplineglobalmobile.com - Since the debut in 1969 King Crimson have been a non-compromising band who manages to produce the most infernal grooves and an almost mathematically studied music, a red thread through many incarnations and different identities. This thread means that no mainstream listeners need to bother with the band. King Crimson have always acted in the wings of modern music culture where they on the other hand have gathered a very engaged audience who know that they never can expect what they should. The interest of the fans gets a clear response on the official homepage [sic - I know, this isnt the official KC homepage]. Concerning design and webtechnically the site is hardly any wonder but two functions on the site deserve attention by marketers. Partly the often updated diary, partly King Crimson Collectors Club. That the artist at all contributes actively to a website is a brilliant marketing trick. That several members of a band write a detailed diary that is updated several times a week is a great asset. Three of four present band members provide the official homesite with sometimes corresponding to a couple of A4-pages of contributions per day on a regular basis. Depending on the members openness, these can deal with anything from music-technical details to thoughts about touring or personal opinions. That way the musicians who before have been mystical and enigmatic are moved down to a more human level. That is, the band is identified with the persons behind it, which gives a greater feeling of relation, both from the artists and the fans perspective. A good update pace of the diary of course gives many opportunities of marketing of the records that are released on the company. If the artist himself expresses himself about these, theres an even greater chance that the site visitor choses to inform himself about them, which means that the two first steps in the AIDA(s)-ladder [marketing theory about the consumers levels of buying behaviour: Attention - Interest - Desire - Action - (satisfaction)] are completed. The other mentioned function is King Crimson Collectors Club which lets the members place #78 (approximately 1100 SEK - www.forex.se) as a deposit for 6 exclusive full CDs with material from live gigs from all over the career, demos or other existing recordings. A new CD is aimed to be sent out every other month which means that the membership lasts one year. A similar activity that only is on the planning stadium is to, like Pearl Jam, produce a double CD for each concert from the latest tour and sell on the website with a price according to the demand. [yes - this sentence is a bit muddy, I know that the Pearl Jam releases are available in ordinary CD stores and are uniformely priced]" All sites were ranked in 19 categories, with a possible 5 points in each category, making a total maximum of 95 points (19*5). In case you wonder, www.backstreetboys.com got 87 and was best of the top list artists. Of the "other artists", www.davidbowie.com got 90, and deserves every praise it may get. Its not just a homepage, its a whole society. Im impressed The DGM site got the following ranks: Adress: 2, Design: 3, News: 4, Sound: 4, Video: no, Buy: 5, Flashyness: 3, Artists presence: 5+, Scope: 3, Marketing of new CD: 2, Biography: 3, Discography: 4, Contact with artist: 2, Fan activity: 5+, Pictures: no, Navigation: 4, Lyrics: no, Tour: 5, Links: 5, SUM: 59. DGM were 4th out of 7 "other artists" sites ranked, and rates as "Well approved" (56-75 points). If anyone is interested in the whole essay in Swedish, feel free to mail me and Ill send it after new year. Sincerely, Marcus Enochsson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:17:57 +1000 From: "Keenan, Owen" Subject: Crimson Odditties With no offence meant to the collectors club (or its members)! Believe it or not there are some KC enthusiasts amongst us that can't afford to be members of the KCCC :( Having followed ET semi-regularly over the last 6 years I have noticed several references to KC 'oddities' performed at various shows. I am also under the impression that RF has all KC shows taped onto adat(s) for prosperity. For a while now I have desired to hear these 'oddities' and I believe that there should be enough material now for a CD to be compiled of these 'oddities' alone. I think that this hypothetical CD would be far more appealing to the general KC fanbase than the KCCC is due to 1... cost. 2... variety of tracks (rather than repetition, how many different 72-74 "Easy Money"s are there? BTW I love them all!!). and 3... increase in KC material. This hypothetical CD could be collectors *edition* #3 (anyone else remember those wonderful general public releases??) Don't get me wrong I tink the KCCC is a wonderful idea but... so far there hasn't been that much stuff released on it that isn't available on the public releases (taped from other shows... i.e. Cikus, TGD, Epitaph, Night Watch etc...). Exceptions to this rule are limited to the two demo sessions CDs, the Muir-era CD and the boz-era Phaoroah Sanders cover. Yes, there are the improvisations (including Projekct iv) which are always amazing and well worthwhile releasing, but by the very virtue of their nature all improvisations are oddities. No, what I'm refering to are pecularities such as the double trio + special guest Greg Lake performing 'Cat Food' circa 95, the controversial, brief reanimation of '...schizoid man' circa 96 (HORDE tour???), Favre's 'Prism' (available on DGM compilation 2 'Sometimes God Smiles' but not on any public KC release) and the recent Belew solo rendition of 'itCotCK'.... I must explain that I don't crave a Crimson of the past (in fact tCoL is my fave Crim CD since Discipline and I consider it to be equal with that platter!) Any other unreleased 'oddities' (from any era) ETers would like to add to this hypothetical compilation???????? I must re-iterate that this is not a complaint (so no flames please), this is is just a dream expressed by myself on behalf of fellow financially challenged fans!! Keep up the good work! (both ET and DGM/RF) Cheers, Owen PS. Where's our Aussie KC tour? (I can only wish) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:34:57 -0600 From: jmcleod at waka dot com Subject: Re: Ladies Love KC When I was heading over to a first date with the woman who is now my wife, I was exceptionally nervous. I really, really didn't want to blow it . . . because deep down I knew that she was the one for me (finally!). When I arrived at her apartment and was knocking on her door, I could hear familiar music coming from within. She opened the door, and to my surprise and great relief . . . "Three Of A Perfect Pair" was pumping through her stereo system. Everything's been fine ever since. That was 10 years ago. Jeff McLeod With infinite possibilities, one can explore forever and end up with nothing in the end. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:36:24 +0100 From: Ferran Nogues i Tolnay Subject: Female reaction to KC music It was ten years ago. I sat with my girlfirend inside my car. There was heavy raining outside. I told her: "I want you to listen to this and then tell me what do you think about it". I chose "Starless" from the Red album. We listened in silence. When it was over, I said "So?" She said: "I felt scared". Ferran Nogues (Eivissa) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:59:12 -0500 From: "Jim McLaughlin" Subject: Re: essential holiday listening Doynuy at aol dot com wrote: > Fripp's rendition of "Silent Night" off KC's Sex Sleep Eat Drink > Dream cd... Somewhere in my archives is a flex-disc, clear red, the size of an old "45". Fripp doing "Silent Night" ala Frippertronics. It was available in an underground magazine I believed was called Praxis III (?) I still have my turn table hook up. May dig it out. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:56:43 +0100 From: Gnad Markus Subject: To stir up some chit-chat... Browsing through summer's RF diaries I again read his ctr+c ctr+v text of Matt Johnson / The The. As the bootleg controversy is a continuing theme in all issues KC i forward you this quote: "As musicians and songwriters, as in other professions, we have dedicated our lives to our art and craft and now face a situation of people stealing our work and passing it around the world for free. No one who has ever done a hard days work for a days pay would expect others to work for free, why should musicians? " Actually this says all. Markus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:16:21 +0100 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Crim/sabs and on >From: s s Did anyone ever notice similarities between King Crimson's 21 Century Schizoid Man (1969) and Black Sabbath's Iron Man (1970 or later), both in the main riffs and subject matter (Iron Man... Schizoid Man...)? There's a song by the first Ian Gillan Band that has a melody very similiar to 21CSM. I can't remember the title, it's the tilte track of their second album. It's on the Live at theBudokan. On the sabs album with Gillan, there's also a song with a very similiar melody (disturbing the priest?) Marcin Gokieli marcin dot gokieli at mospan dot pl marcingokieli at go2 dot pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:08:09 +0100 From: "Markus Gnad" Subject: Monkey Business I think I posted this sometime, but as the issue came up again: John Wetton & Richard Palmer-James "Monkey Business 1972-1997" is available as Blueprint BP-295-CD (at least in Europe). They have a lot of records out there, including some Gordon Haskell stuff. (Check him out he's amazing!!) The album was released 1998. Markus A yes and a HUUUUUGE thank you to Master of Disaster David Voci, still offline, but sent me a Christmas card! Hey Dave, Klaus Schulze RULES! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:31:10 -0500 (EST) From: Darryl Subject: The future of "Thrush" Hello all, Since everyone is talking about 'Deception Of The Thrush' lately... I think it would be a great idea if they recorded this song on their next album. Instead of reviving ideas from the '70s, they should make proper studio recordings of some of the ProjeKct material('Seizure' would also be great, IMO). Or how about an entire studio album made up of ProjeKct material with no vocals at all. (Nothing against Ade or anything). PS. To whoever it was who said my 'talented musicians...' post was "Fripp worship"...what are you talking about? Did you really *read* my post. Thanks for calling me 'some guy', I'm flattered. I downloaded 'Groon' off of Napster because I didn't want to buy the Frame By Frame box for one damn song.....How's that for Fripp worship! Darryl "Sing hymns, make love, get high, fall dead" -Richard Palmer-James ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:30:29 From: "Donovan Mayne-Nicholls" Subject: earthbound and USA: a solution I think instead of releasing a remastered version of EARTHBOUND, Fripp could perhaps release a triple CD set featuring the entire Wilmington, Orlando and Peoria sets. Jacksonville (from where Sailor's Tale was taken) has already been released by the collector's club and anybody who is desperate enough to have all tracks from the original album can either join the club or buy the Japanese CD (that's what I did). Sailor's Tale was edited for Earthbound whereas for the club release Fripp went back to the original master tape, achieving a better sound than he'd have had he used the edit. This happened with Providence, which sounds better on The Great Deceiver box set (original master) than in the 24 bit remaster of Red (edited). Regarding USA, I think a double CD with basically the same thing repeated twice would be too much. What Fripp should is to release the original album on 24 bit remaster in a mini lp cover and save the entire concert for the club. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:38:03 -0500 From: Jim Bailey Subject: A non-KC flash event I realize that I'm preaching mainly to the converted here, but the relatively recent ballyhoo over flash photography at KC performances has prompted me to relate the following, about a non-KC performance, but which may still be relevant (decide for yourself). Just over a week ago, the turntablist Christian Marclay performed here in Toronto along with local improvising ensemble CCMC (Paul Dutton - soundsinging; Michael Snow - keyboards; John Oswald - alto saxophone). It was in a small club (The Rivoli - capacity of about 200 max.). These were not folks to whom the term "animated" would apply. Hell, two of them were *seated* during the entire thing! Sure, they were moving, but leaping about, or indeed any great changes in position just didn't happen. Some moron, however, still found it necessary to take probably a hundred photos, using a flash, throughout the entire forty minute first set. I was standing at the back, with my eyes closed and head pointing down, and I could *still* notice the flash going off. While the stage lighting was not blazing, I have managed to take non-flash photos under the same conditions and still get good results. Strangely enough, though, I was talking to Michael after the set, and he said he hadn't noticed it. Perhaps the lighting on stage was sufficient to dissipate the effect, or maybe he was just so concentrated on what he was doing, I don't know. It certainly bugged the hell out of me. Now here's a possible solution that I thought of some time ago, which could help bands like KC, and Robert in particular: Have a specially arranged "photo set," either before or after the gig, where the band comes on stage and goes through all sorts of poses that they might use (or have used) during the show, but without playing a note. People who want to take pictures could then come in and snap away to their heart's content without bothering either the performers, or other members of the audience who actually came to *see* the show. That's my little rant over with. Best wishes to you all. Honour the Earth at this time of death and re-birth. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:48:04 -0800 From: William Heinrichs Subject: KCCC #14 vs #11 Hello, I noticed that KCCC #14 has the same sound rating as KCCC #11 (Bath - 81). Having never listened to #11 and knowing there was some strong comments regarding #11's sound quality, I am hesitant to obtain #14. Could some people shed some light on what they found dislikable with #11's sound? Additionaly, do you plan to obtain #14 even though it has the same rating? Thanks, Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:55:59 -0500 From: Jim Bailey Subject: An *extremely* rare T-Lev recording Hello again, Whilst looking through the library for material to play on my radio programme this past Sunday, I came across an old tape from the mid-'80s put out by John Oswald (you might remember him from my previous post), as part of his "Mystery Tape" series. It's probably a promotion for a longer version (this only has two short tracks, one per side) of one by guitarist Henry Kaiser called "Mah Jong Hell." One is a "medley" of sections from the full length tape, but it's the other that's of real interest here. The title is "Sleepless Serenade," which should give some indication of its content. It is indeed based around the bass riff from the KC song of the same (sort of) name, and runs for about four minutes. Over top are some squeaks and squibbles by Kaiser and Oswald. Just when you thought you had everything... Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 00 16:33:47 -0000 From: Michael Hackett Subject: Re: Crimson, Fripp, DGM and the Music Biz JEF520 at aol dot com wrote: >Which leads us to rock concert audiences..... Most, if not all who attend >rock concerts have grown up with the rebelliousness of the "rock lifestyle". [...] >Do we really want uniformly well behaved crowds of attentive audients, >though? Would this be healthy for the dynamics and potential creativity of >the genera? Assuming that most here have attended a classical music concert >at one time or another, I would point out that audiences at such concerts are >very well behaved - they don't smoke dope, set off flash cameras, or shreek >requests for songs the preformers haven't done in 20 years. As a dynamic, >creative musical style however, classical music is highly moribund, if not >down right deceased! Although I'm not that "into" classical music, I can tell you that as an artform you are most wrong (though commercially it may be in the tank). It appears to be the same as with pop/rock music -- you get a lot of the same-old-same-old watered down for easy digestion, but then there are a few artists who are pushing the envelope and doing new things. One needs to dig a little deeper to find the stuff, but Crimson fans should know all about that. >Creativity needs a bit of chaos. We need to feel a bit uncomfortable >sometimes to be shaken out of complacency. If we try too hard to force a set >of "acceptable behavior" values on the rock community, them we may not have >to put up the the stoned crettins at concerts any more, but I'm afraid we >will eliminate the possibility of creativity from the genera as well. Though it may breed chaos, I fail to see who some drunk idiot shouting "21st Century Schizoid Man" can help stir the creativity of the performers. And if you are the performers, would you want to add more chaos to an already wild situation? In such circumstances, the performers are more likely to want to maintain as much control as possible, which will detract from the focus on the performance. On the other hand, when attentive and yet entusiastic audience has created a safe space for the performers -- effectively saying, "we're willing to go where you lead" -- the musicians will be more willing to be less cautious and see where the moment takes them. I've been to a (very) few concerts where the audience has been "well behaved", and yet the energy level was still very palpable, and perhaps more concentrated due to the lack of constant distractions for audience members. More than once the audience exploded with applause at the end of a piece, the build-up of emotion being so great. I'm not suggesting that audience members need to cross their legs and sit on their hands like good little boys and girls. All I'd like is for people to pay attention and give the performers -- AND the other people in the audience -- the respect they deserve. Shouting, whistling and talking during the music is distracting for other listeners, and the performers can feel it when the audience is with them and when they are not. The energy feeds back in a loop, and when the audience is not holding up their end of the bargain, the performance will inevitably suffer. Obviously, seasoned professionals will still try to turn in a good effort, but rarely will the experience be truly trancendent when the audience/performer bond is not fully forged. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:40:12 EST From: GenoTT at aol dot com Subject: DGM >And another thing: Why DGM does not have the Collectors Club sampler >available though retail stores? So far its only available and accessible >for those who are already in the Club or folks who buy from DGM directly. The KCCC was never meant to be a retail proposition. It's meant specifically for the die-hard enthusiasts willing to plunk down the cash for recordings "of historical or musical value," or something to that effect, that wouldn't (or shouldn't) be released publicly due to substandard quality, etc. Since the club is run through DGM, they offer a sampler for those borderline enthusiasts unsure about joining. Why should it be run through a different label? For another thing, have you noticed the sampler is just $10? I can't remember the last time I saw any CD sold on the public market for less than $13, and those are the ones on sale. Mostly they're $15 and up. I'm thankful someone is running a system that tries to pay the artists for their work, and doesn't charge more than a product is worth just to make themselves a little more cash. How much do you think Virgin/EMI cares about paying artists what they're worth? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:50:30 -0500 From: Ryan D Tassone Subject: Here's a cool quote. Hi fellas, I happened upon this line when searching AOL Member Profiles, and it wasn't bibliographed, so I'm not sure where it came from. But it relates, in some obtuse way, to the Cringson Kim: "Discipline is remembering what you want." What would Frobert Ripp say?! "Better that discipline is in the present, rather than accessed from memory. Better, if possible, that discipline is not a matter of desire, but a matter of necessity. Better still, if possible, that a subscriber to an online newsletter pulls off a textual imitation of me as a response to his discipline: the falsification of virtue. Endless Grief continues to leave its illigitimate bastard children. What a pity." That was all fake, by the way. "It was all a big hoax...heh heh heh..." Telephant Alk?? Ryan ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #792 ********************************