Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #791 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 791 Tuesday, 19 December 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: 1 Million Hits - Thankyou Re: Who is "Prolific Joe"? Re: Earthbound mistranslation the mostly male (us) audience is white Chicks'n'Crim Re: Heavy ConstrucKtion Missing subject lines Re: The Talented Musicians of Crimson Al Anderson/Dr. Diamond Notes without rest...! Crimson Influenced Bands DARKER CRIMSON OF OLD bands that play Crimson Heavy Construction Re: Kurzweil Mellotron Samples Re: Betrayed by BootlegTV Crimson Videos Re: TGD About "The Deception Of The Thrush" and its future potential KCCC 12: Copyrights Levin with Linn ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:55:20 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: 1 Million Hits - Thankyou To All ETers, Over 5 and half years ago I was introduced to the Elephant Talk newsletter, and ET Web site. A lot has happened since - most of it good. Back in March 1996 I inaugurated a site redesign, and started a hit counter. Since then, we've changed domain names and Web hosts, and added new sections and pages. I've also received a lot of help from contributors in keeping content up to date, and I want to thank all of them, past and present, for their terrific assistance. You know who you are - take a bow. We've also changed hit counters along the way, and I certainly don't believe in the accuracy of the count for one minute. Nevertheless, in a few days the hit counter will read 1,000,000 hits, and whether or not that really means 1,000,000 visits have been made to ET Web, it is a milestone I think is worth noting and celebrating. I have always thought of my role at ET Web as that of facilitator: helping ETers to find the information they are looking for, or to come into contact with others that share the same interests that bring us all together here. With Toby's tireless dedication to the newsletter, and Mike's support in distributing each new digest, it has been a labor of love for us all - eventhough we do get the occasional dopey posting or email. So to all ETers I thank you for stopping by and for taking a look at what we have at ET Web. Please come again. Merry Christmas, Dan ET Webmaster ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:14:03 -0800 From: Tom Ace Subject: Re: Who is "Prolific Joe"? In ET #788, John Fabiani asked who the "Prolific Joe" is that RF refers to in his diary. I believe it's Franz Joseph Haydn (1732-1809). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:31:11 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Tanigawa Subject: Re: Earthbound The following news item from the July 1972 issue of Circus magazine seems to suggest that "Earthbound" was released with the acquiescence, if not unequivocal support, of Robert Fripp. King Crimson Finally Splits (Again?) King Crimson has broken up for the last time. No more concert tours are expected. Robert Fripp, the mastermind of the group, reports that Crimson freaks will have one more album. About eighteen hours worth of live tapes were made on the group's spring tour. The best moments of these tapes have already been edited into an LP. Something to remember them by? [Then follows a statement regarding the previous occupation of a former band member. Since I have not been able to corroborate this allegation, it will not be repeated here] The caption "Robert Fripp: One more LP, and that's it" inexplicably appears below a photo of Keith Tippett (smoking a handrolled cigarette) which was probably taken during the "Cat Food" sessions. Michael Tanigawa >While listening to my copy of "Earthbound" the other day I couldn't >get over how different this album is from other KC releases before and >after (especially the poor production values, something I think would >have been unacceptable to Mr. Fripp). Was this an "official" KC >release, a record company cash grab, or something in between? Does >anyone know the story? Feel free to e-mail me direct if you like. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 07:09:11 -0800 (PST) From: Kazuhiko Saiga Subject: mistranslation to ETalkers We Japanese speak Japanese naturally. But Most of Rock music and Hollywood movies use English. So sometimes title of song or movie is translate Japanese. For example, The Beatles' I want to hold your hand translate to Japanese title "I wanna hold you tight". Michale Douglas' Fatal Attraction to "Dangerous Loveaffair". These are good to understand for content. The Beatles Norwegian Wood translate to "Forest in Norway". This is misunerstanding. but this misunderstanding provoke Haruki Murakami's Norwegian Wood(Japanese author's famaous novel). Biggest misunderstanding I think is KC's Night Watch. This translate to "The man who controll the night". It's so funny. In my young days, I couldnot understand this song. Guitar lesson for wife ....why? Red brick home bourgeoisie......what? But after I realized Night Watch is Rembrandt work, and this song admired his work, his age and people. Night Watch became my favorite KC song. Same thing happened in any other Non English country? Kaz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:07:32 EST From: Elfinster at aol dot com Subject: the mostly male (us) audience is white i agree with josette's observation that most of the audience at kc concert seems to be male. i would also add to that that at least in the us--east coast/major cities--the audience seems to be (to my untrained eyes) mostly caucasian. i wonder if it is a question of marketing, cultural borders, or what. in my experience--and i am not generalizing here--most concerts i attended in which the bands were of the prog-rock persuasion, had overwhelming white audiences. even in a city like washington dc, where the white population is clearly in the minority. carlos schroder. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:25:30 -0500 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Chicks'n'Crim I went to see Crimson last month at Town Hall in NYC with my concert buddy Henry. As we walked to the hall, he asked me, why wasn't my wife Janet interested in the show? I told him that her assessment of Crimson was, "That music makes me want to murder someone." We walked in silence for a moment. Then he said, "You have to give her credit for picking up on that." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:33:58 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Re: Heavy ConstrucKtion >FraKctured: May 27 Copenhagen and June 6 Bonn >Blastic Rhino: June 6 Bonn,June 21 Gardone,June 29 Madrid >ccccSeizurecc: June 3 Stuttgart, June 4 Muenchen, June 9 Poznan >7 Teas: May 27 - 28 Copenhagen, June 4 Muenchen >Tomorrow Never Knows Thela: June 10 - 11 Warsaw,June 13 Prague >Uboo: June 29 Madrid,July 3 London >The Deception of the Thrush: May 31 Berin,June 23 Rome,June 25 Paris,June 28 > San Sebastian >Now, were very clever combination mixes made (Thrush: 4 dates!) and do I >just have to have my ears checked or are there several printing mistakes? Mixing and pro-tooling performances, "removing or adding events", is Pat and Bill's standard operating procedure, explained in Masque's liner notes. FraKctured is the only combination on discs 1 & 2, probably to eliminate blatant train wrecks. And Lights Please is Heavy C's small mystery. ___ Laurent Masse ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:43:05 -0000 From: "Nicholas Cox" Subject: Missing subject lines My fairly pointless post in ET789 was made utterly pointless without its subject line. > Subject: They said they'd be snow at Christmas... ...actually I'm not too bothered about snow, but KCCC12 would be nice. Festive Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:54:23 -0500 From: "Craig J. Clark" Subject: Re: The Talented Musicians of Crimson Randy Hammill wrote: > > Brian May and Trevor Rabin, among others, have done movie scores, and they > have worked with many people who have worked with others (Brian May did The > Road Warrior, for instance, which leads to Mel Gibson, who has worked with > a few people). Actually, the Brian May from Queen and the Brian May who wrote the score for The Road Warrior are two different people. BTW, before anybody responds to my remark about John Wetton's singing on "Doctor Diamond" (probably too late), I realize the lyrics can be found on ET. This still does not mean I can figure out what the song's supposed to be about. (Neither does it mean that I want it explained to me [also probably too late].) Anyway, to end on an upbeat note, happy birthday, Adrian! -- Craig J. Clark "I believe -- so strongly -- in mayonnaise." cjclark at earthlink dot net --Elmo Oxygen, http://home.earthlink.net/~cjclark denizen of Schizopolis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:34:07 -0500 From: David Vella Subject: Al Anderson/Dr. Diamond Dear Eletalkers, A couple of issues ago I posted a trivia question: What was Al Anderson's band before NRBQ? with bonus points for naming the one national hit and the southern rock band that covered it. To date I have received one correct answer, from Joe Hartley (who made the original post mentioning Al Anderson): The band was The Wildweeds, from Windsor Locks, CT. The national hit was "No Good to Cry" which was covered by the Allman Bros. [Joe informs me of two other bands who also covered it; John Fred & his Playboy band and Billy Gibbons - prior to ZZ Top. This qualifies Joe as an Al Anderson expert!] The Wildweeds also received a lot of regional radio play (in the Northeast) with their songs "It Was Fun While it Lasted" and "I'm Dreaming". Anybody remember? Or am I just an old fart? In more directly related to Crimson matters, I want to echo the sentiments of Craig Clark and several other recent posters who sing the praises of the GD box set. This is probably the most expensive item I've ever bought on CD, but considering its content, it is the best bargain I've ever had! Craig ends with this: > One question still remains: What the hell is John Wetton singing in > "Doctor Diamond"? Are we simply not meant to know what the hell the > song's about? At the risk of repeating myself, the lyrics to Dr. D are printed on the booklet that comes with the Wetton/Palmer-James CD "Monkey Business". This CD contains a number of demos and outtakes of Crimsongs, other material they collaborated on (including a demo of a song which was to go on the never-materialized sequel to "Red"), and a few recent renditions (a couple of live versions even) of classics like 'The Night Watch', 'Book of Saturday', 'Starless', and 'Dr. Diamond'. The tempo on the version of Dr. D is slow enough to hear the lyrics, even.... AFAIK, "Monkey Business" is available only as an import in the USA, and considering the rough form of most of the tracks, the $28 price tag is way too steep. However, I waited (about a year) for a sale at CDNOW and picked it up for around $22, which helped ease the pain. If you display completist tendencies when it comes to collecting Crimson & related material, you might want to check this CD out, if you have any money left after buying TGD Box! Cheers, David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:39:09 -0500 From: Ryan D Tassone Subject: Notes without rest...! Hello, givers and takers, A note of curiosity: if Robert prefers Pat's sense of rhythm and timing to Bill's counterplaying, why does he always choose the latter role in any guitar duet piece? "Frame by Frame," "Discipline," "Three of a Perfect Pair," and dozens of others all have Fripp playing very Bruford-like, slippery patterns over more conventional 4/4 or 3/4 Belew lines. I think that on this level, the Fripp-Bruford duo posesses greater relevance to Crimson's music than the obviously more popular Fripp-Belew pairing. Anybody can play straight, jazzless, eigth-note arpeggios with another person, slightly out of time, and make it sound somewhat like 80's Crim. Don't jump down my throat; I didn't say anybody WOULD...that's what makes King Crimson special. Hell, I can achieve much the same effect with a rhythmic delay effect on my guitar, but if I'd never heard of Robert Fripp, I probably would have thought such a musical concept was silly. But the very fact that the same tension-and-release element of such phrasing is always perfectly captured, complimented, or counterbalanced by Bill's style makes me wonder why Robert decided to continue without him. Perhaps he wasn't aware that they had so much in common when it came to keeping time? Or maybe he was aware, and wanted something new? Another note of curiosity: if this is supposed to be a dead thread, why are there so many posts like mine? Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:58:56 -0000 From: "Charles Simpson" Subject: Crimson Influenced Bands Hello fellow Crimso FREAKS, You know, I'd like to hear about more Crimson influenced bands, as opposed to bands who play Crimson music. I'm not talking about popular bands like Metallica or any of the bands who've some link to Crimson. I'm talking about talented bands & musicians who have no personal link to Crimson or any of the members, former or present. Good honest music, with a good flavor. I know they're out there. There's one band from Texas called "99 Names Of God" that has a Warr Guitar player, a guitar player, a female singer, and a Roland Groovebox. I want to know about some more bands like that. Charles Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 10:22:17 -0800 From: "Michael Destefano" Subject: DARKER CRIMSON OF OLD THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO A READERS QUERY AS TO BANDS COVERING KC MATERIAL. FROM 1976-80 MY BAND HERETIC COVERED (with different degrees of success) LAMENT, EASY MONEY, I TALK TO THE WIND, FALLEN ANGEL,ASBURY PARK(basically the opening drum riff into our own improv) ---PLUS A 15MINUTE MEDLEY OF-- ONE IN A MILLION--ERUDITE EYES- THE LETTERS- RED--SCHIZOID MAN. THE SMALL FAN BASE OF CRIMSON FANS LOVED THE FACT THAT THEY COULD HEAR THESE SONGS ( NOT TO MENTON OTHER OBSCURE PROG ROCK) FROM A LOCAL BAND. ALSO, IN RESPONSE TO THE DISCUSSION ABOUT 70'S CRIMSON BEING DARKER THAN OTHER LATER INCARNATIONS: I HAVE TO AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY. PART OF THE PLEASURE IN SHARING MISERY IS PORTRAYING MISERY-- EARLY CRIMSON WAS NOT ABOUT FEELING GOOD- IT WAS ALMOST MORE ABOUT ACCEPTING THE WRONGS-- THUS THE DELICATE AND BEAUTIFUL MELODIES (i'm not JUST talking about the FLUFFY stuff either)JUXTAPOSED WITH DISSONANT, ANGULAR THEMES ALLOWED CATHARTIC RELEASE WITHOUT THE OUTWARD DISPLAY OF TEARS. ADRIAN AS A FRONT MAN AMERICANIZES THE DOOM AND GLOOM-- HE TENDS TO GIVE A CLASS CLOWN APPROACH TO HIS STAGE PERSONNA( hey look! i'm enjoying myself up here).I SAW CRIMSON IN 83 AND CAME AWAY THINKING THAT I WAS WITNESS TO EVIL IN THE FORM OF MUSIC--EXCEPT FOR ADRIAN AND TO A LESSER EXTENT TONY. THEY BOTH ACTED LIKE THEY WERE HAVING FUN PLAYING THE PART.OH WELL IT'S ONLY MY OPINION! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 08:48:12 -0800 (PST) From: jan geerts Subject: bands that play Crimson ave all, I have been rehearsing four times in one month a half now, with a band that could be named 'Duke Scarlett' in the future. Our current setlist : Schizoid - Court - Red - One More Red Nightmare - Starless, and Firth of Fifth by Genesis, and Libertango by some Italian composer (covered by Grace Jones as 'Strange, I've Seen This Place Before). These songs go pretty good and sound very much like the originals. We're now working on Talking Drum - LTIA II, and some pieces from Yes' Fragile. We also jam on Take Five and Summertime, and are planning to take on some Bach pieces. My main band is Man In Space!, that plays original Space Rock songs ; and then there's Local People, a band that plays funk and disco covers. Yep, one minute I'm playing KC, and the other KC and the Sunshine Band. Vive la difference! Jan http://www.geocities.com/forimul/index.html I am in the process of updating my site with the new bands, and I will put some mp3's up there shortly. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 00 13:28:01 EST From: James Dusewicz Subject: Heavy Construction Ever since the ProjecKs series, especially including TCOL, Crimson(or what actually passes as such) has been getting more heavy metal oriented. What heavy metal connotes to me is a Black Sabbath type of music. I was never into that. But Fripp and Co. are different. I like Heavy Construction. I liken it to a Dick's Picks of King Crimson. Robert, it is about time you started paying attention to how Grateful Dead Merchandising keeps Deadheads fed. There are enough twists and turns on Heavy Construction to keep any Crim Head occupied for quite some time. Although I must agree with someone who once said on Elephant Talk that this Crim seems to be taking a page from side two of Three Of A Perfect Pair. Crimson was always adapting and changing. Fripp likes to mix it up. To me, there certainly isn't anything wrong with this approach. jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:31:12 +0100 From: bart at unheard-of dot com Subject: Re: Kurzweil Mellotron Samples > Anybody know of Mellotron samples available for Kurzweil K2500/K2600 synths? They are probably available in audio, AKAI S1000 format and probably others. Try east-west sounds. Regards, Bart. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:53:02 -0600 From: "W. Stuart Kirkham" Subject: Re: Betrayed by BootlegTV In ET #789 Warren Melnick writes: "So what happened? We were promised the shows in a timely manner. We were promised a subscription to watch the shows on the tour. We were promised CDs. We were promised a box set. What did we get? Nothing. A 3CD set was released to the general buying public offered also for sale through DGM. The warmup shows and a few video clips were available via streaming and not even downloadable to the average user. Does anyone else feel let down?" I've been meaning to sound off on this very subject as well. Add to the list of offenses the fact that we were invited to sign up to receive news via e-mail, and no announcements were ever made. At first glance, this appears to be a very shoddy business. Of course, the venal RF or perhaps the Fripp-bots would chime in with "expect nothing." I would like to point out preemptively that I had no expectations prior to the announcements from RF and BTV of what BTV was going to do...perhaps "promise nothing" should be added to the list of aphorisms as a corollary to "expect nothing." My take on the situation is this: BTV is an idea ahead of its time. My more-than-modest computer system cannot run the latest version of MediaPlayer without memory problems (even when viewing the video at postage-stamp size). Also, the streaming audio/video seems to need a higher speed connection than my 56K dial-up connection. I cannot currently afford to either upgrade (which at this point means replace) my computer or pay the $40 per month for cable or DSL (and my computer probably isn't fast enough to notice the difference anyway); I am certainly not going to put myself through these expenses just so I can hear Oyster Soup played a hundred times over. I also suspect that the technology required to live-netcast the concerts from anywhere in the world may not be cost-effective yet either (consider also that RF had trouble accessing e-mail or the net at various locations in Europe, according to his diaries). Who knows. I found out very quickly that with my technology the live streaming represented a complete failure of the BTV vision at worst, or at least a waste of time on my end. Given time and the cost effectiveness of the technology on both the sending and receiving ends, the idea still has potential. Nevertheless, if they were having difficulties, it would have been nice to have been informed of it via their silent newsletter. I would definitely like to see some statement as to why what was delivered was not the same as what was promised. A humorous endnote while on this subject. Several months ago, I ordered the first set of remastered gatefold editions of ITCOTCK, ITWOP, Lizard and Island direct from DGM USA. I received a second copy of Poseidon instead of Lizard, however, and informed DGM of the error. They promptly and kindly mailed a copy of lizard and informed me via e-mail that they were including a self-addressed-stamped envelope to return the wrong CD, so I would not have to pay postage. Very thoughtful of them, indeed! This envelope turned out to be a 4 1/8" X 9 1/2" letter envelope; since I could not figure out how to fold the CD to fit in the envelope, I had to pay the postage myself. So much for small, mobile, intelligent units, I thought... Back to lurking Stu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:51:23 EST From: Robbriryon at aol dot com Subject: Crimson Videos Hi again people.. Just a quick and very sincere THANKS to all those who took the time to personally respond and email me info regarding the acquisition on Crim videos. I'm on my way now to those web sites and hope to purchase them. Take care all. John Robbriryon at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:38:20 -0300 (CLST) From: "Miguel Farah F." Subject: Re: TGD > >Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:33:39 +1100 >From: "Paul and CJ" >Subject: TGD > >Dear ETers > >Yet another lurker finally out of the closet, but I have to tell someone >about my latest purchase. > >Having thought yes...no...yes...no...I finally plucked up the courage (and >the substantial amount of Australian dollars, given the Australian dollar >buys you about 2 bananas on the world currency market these days) and bought >myself a Christmas present (without my wife knowing of course...let me say >up front she's NOT in the slightest bit KC-centric...women and >KC...continuation of a thread that has had some airplay before I think...but >From a purely anecdotal perspective let me add my statistic to whoever is >collecting statistics on KC's non-appeal to women...it would make for an >interesting regression analysis I think). > >Sweeping generalisation...no strong supporting evidence...absolutely!!, but >hey this is the 'net', and whoever said you had to be accurate or substiante >a claim on the net...answer...no-one...ya just gotta have attitude man...or >something like that. However, I digress. I wanted to talk about 'The Great >Deceiver', 4 CDs of KC bliss with sonics to knock your socks off (I don't >[....] Apart from some details, this is pretty much the same story I lived when *I* purchased TGD. I can't help but wonder... how many people can say this?: "I considered for some time buying _The Great Deceiver_ box set, but the steep price made me have doubts about it. Do I purchase i? Do I not? I finally decided to buy it, and not only I've never regretted it, now I can't understand that I DID doubt buying it!" I know I can. -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel at webhost dot cl #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:33:02 -0600 From: "Trey Five Winds" Subject: About "The Deception Of The Thrush" and its future potential I've seen quite a few people write in and ask varying questions about this piece, and I've seen a transcription of the lyrics to the HC CD2 version from Biffy the Elephant Shrew (Thanks once again!), that I just HAD to air out some thoughts on this. What exactly IS "The Deception Of The Thrush?" Hhhmmmm... Perhaps, a major Crim masterpiece in its current form as a work-in- progress? A wonderful moment in the ProjeKcts "research and development" findings that wasn't necessarily Crim but just too good not to share? Perhaps Trey Gunn's meandering experiments with the Warr Guitar given new application and catalysm? Perhaps a "mood-piece" strictly formulated for Music to come through easier (or perhaps it just happens to have had that space automatically built in as part and parcel of its form)? Perhaps, a link to "Starless" and the improv of "Starless And Bible Black" that this band (or ProjeKct) plays to access ground from without necessarily playing those piece(s) themselves? Perhaps a part of the new Crim's entry into its next creative phase? Or, perhaps even a subtle attempt by a certain T.S. Eliot fan to turn on more of his/their listeners to Eliot's work? (What the hell -- it's a thought...I did it in my own music, but then I was an amateur...) Myself, I think all of these could be possible, perhaps even probable. I've even noticed that the song has its own section in the ET FAQ. I vaguely wonder if this portion of the FAQ will expand exponentially as the development of the piece does (an interesting way for ET to follow Crimson, maybe...) I myself ADORE the song, and think it is one of the most moving, most stimulating and interactive piece(s) of music that I've been hearing ANYBODY develop. It has power, beauty, grace, majesty, and strangeness going for it (strangeness is always a good thing in music -- in my opinion, of course). And there are so many different ways to play it! I have noticed that although all of the members of this Crimson have played it, in one form or another, the entire Crim band hasn't played it yet (to my knowledge; I've been unable to make it to a KC2000 show yet, and I hope to see the spring 2001 tour, if such a tour happens, but I understand that basically it's ProjeKct Three). A few people find the song downright creepy from what I've been reading here, and my mother said it scared her to death (old age, I guess) while my father said it bored him to tears (old age, I guess). Which is why I played it at our recent Christmas party. I did notice that the version on HC CD2, after the "Ghostly Voices" part and the "Frippish Freak-Out" part, that the soloing and feel (I guess partly due to the Soundscaping) did have this sort of Christmasy, wintery, holidayish, eternal feel to it, a SMALL bit like "Starless" but with more sparkle. This section went over well with others in my family, who also noted that if they had to put up with that much to get to the "warm, fuzzy feelings" portion of the music, then they just assume not listen to it to begin with. Which is why the piece is now on my voicemail answering service. Now I know Robert Fripp wasn't kidding when he said that the new album made absolutely no compromises. I feel he implied that the new Crimson as a band wouldn't offer any either. What I didn't expect was for their "transitional pieces" to have the same quality. VERY EXCELLENTLY DONE, FELLOWS (and you to, Mr. Eliot, for providing you own form of elephan- tosity.)! I also notice that "Seizure" shares this quality as well as some of the other improvs... I would wonder here, and for the amusement/contribution/opinion/enter- tainment portion of this to all the ETers out there: Do you think this piece has the forward motion and contains the magic to become a new Crimson "Classic"? Or do the many of you hear it more as a springboard for other things? Whaddaya say, huh? Takers, anyone? Public, Private? Tim Cox, Markus Gnad, Biffy -- the rest of you? And how does this piece strike you female fans especially? I would love to hear this... Wishing a good holiday season to all ETers, as well as The Boys In RED and the staff at DGM. Best Wishes, Trey Five Winds "Music is when the musician disappears." -- Trey Gunn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:39:01 -0500 From: "Louis Sormany" Subject: KCCC 12: Copyrights In Elephant-talk 786, I wrote: " Personnally, I'm sure at 99% (but I can't prove it) that Pete Sinfield is the member who is opposed to that release. If you go to the address below, you will see that Fripp and Sinfield are not at all of the same opinion about DGM, copyrights questions and many other things! A very interesting reading by the way... http://www.interx.net/~jgreen/RantingShaman.html " In Elephant-Talk 788, Robert Cervero answered: " In #786, amid all the ballyhoo about who's holding up the '69 Hyde Park release, Mr. Sormany opines: "Personally, I'm sure at 99% (but I can't prove it) that Pete Sinfield is the member who is opposed to that release." Having corresponded with PS on several occasions on this and other matters in recent times, I'm 100% certain Mr. Sormany's wrong. " As I know that Mr Cervero corresponds with PS and RF and that he is very credible about KC, I conclude that I was wrong. There is also the fact that I realise since my sending, that if the problem was coming from PS, we should have the same problem with KCCC14, on which PS was still a member of the group. So the mistery remains! And my sincere excuses to Mr Sinfield. Louis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:05:22 +0000 From: caxx at att dot net Subject: Levin with Linn Great article with Tony Levin in Stereophile/January issue. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #791 ********************************