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Subject: Elephant Talk #790


               E L E P H A N T    T A L K

        The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp
              and King Crimson enthusiasts

                        Number 790

                Saturday, 16 December 2000

Today's Topics:

   NNNostalgia
   Re: Who is Joe Prolific in ET 788
   Thrush Voice; Club News
   The Talented Musicians of Crimson
   The Talented Musicians of KC
   Re: Who is "Prolific Joe"?
   Re: Who is "Prolific Joe"?
   Re: The talented musicians of Crimson
   No Pictures & Thrak Box
   The mostly male audience!
   Was I ahead of my time?
   Ladies love KC
   Kurzweil Mellotron Samples
   Bands Covering Crimson
   Thrush 'lyrics'
   Thrakattack vs Heavy ConstruKction ?
   Earthbound / USA
   Crimson Live Videos
   Re: "Lyrics" to Deception of Thrush?
   Adrian Birthday Tribute
   essential holiday listening
   Re: TGD

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Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:00:01 +0100
From: Gnad Markus <MGnad at rundschau dot co dot at>
Subject: NNNostalgia

"let me say up front she's NOT in the slightest bit KC-centric...women and
KC...continuation of a thread that has had some airplay before I
think...but from a purely anecdotal perspective let me add my statistic to
whoever is collecting statistics on KC's non-appeal to women...it would
make for an interesting regression analysis I think"

Well, this reminds me of April 8, 1999. What a definite day! I bought my
first car - Honda Accord from 1989 BEST MACHINE EVER, still have it now -
and was looking for some good new music and discovered the Crimson King.
After a few purchases I gave my then-girlfriend - may she burn in hell - a
good listen (I think, P2, Sylvian/Fripp, Cirkus and so), and she said "Wow!
That's cool and freaky!"  And she really liked it, although she said that
Fripps guitar caused some nightmares...

Yet lately driving around with a female working mate listening to... what
the hell I think it was Discipline CD... she said.. "uaaaargghh that's
really sick".

Given that I believe "sick" is an extremely positive adjective in music,
and she doesn't have a taste of what "sick" means for me, I think she was
slightly disappointed.

But... not to say that all the boys love KC... well, I do.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:03:40 -0500
From: Andrew Bass <abass at courrier dot usherb dot ca>
Subject: Re: Who is Joe Prolific in ET 788

Answer:
Franz Joseph Haydn (1732 - 1809)
108 symphonies
83 works for string quartet
2 dozen operas
+ many songs, concerti, oratoria(?) and Masses

Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:24:41 -0600
From: Michael Flaherty <mflaher3 at triton dot cc dot il dot us>
Subject: Thrush Voice; Club News

I.  Much of the material used for the voice on "Thrush" can be found in the
first section of T. S. Eliot's poem, "The Wasteland."

II.  Some club things I haven't seen noted here:

1.  While the Plymouth '71 release is a 2 cd set, it will cost only $16.  I
believe this is what's known as "a good deal."  ;)

2.  The club release following (#15) will be from Mainz, Germany, in 1974.

I assume these releases will be followed by a release each from the 80s,
the current group, and, if possible (leagally) '69.  No one can accuse the
club of not being balanced.

Voting for a P3 show, if anyone is listening,

Michael Flaherty

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:44:35 -0500
From: Randall dot Hammill at hartfordlife dot com
Subject: The Talented Musicians of Crimson

Darryl wrote:
Is there any other band who has members who can be traced to almost anyone
in the entertainment industry? At the top of my head I can only think of
Pink Floyd's David Gilmour, who has appeared on a zillion albums by
differet artists.

****

David Gilmour is one. Here is my list to get to anybody. (Maybe Toby will
let this through...)

Country
One avenue is through Bela Fleck, who played on the Chieftain's Another
Country. There is a slew of other artists on this particular Chieftains
album alone, mostly country, including Emmylou Harris Willie Nelson, Chet
Atkins, etc. These artists have, of course, played with many, many people.

Movies (Actors) and Broadway
Brian May and Trevor Rabin, among others, have done movie scores, and they
have worked with many people who have worked with others (Brian May did The
Road Warrior, for instance, which leads to Mel Gibson, who has worked with
a few people). Of course, Queen (minus Freddie) played with a whole bunch
of people at the Freddie Mercury Tribute, including Liza Minelli. That
about covers the Broadway side of things.

The Rest...
What have I missed? Rock, actors, country, broadway, classical - oh yeah
most of them can probably be covered with the movie scores and occasional
orchestral additions to rock music. And Brian May also did the Star Fleet
Project with Eddie Van Halen who played the solo for Michael Jackson's Beat
It. That gets Quincy Jones into the picture (as well as the rest of the
Jacksons) - he's worked with a few people. Axl Rose also performed at the
Freddie Mercury tribute with Queen, as did Elton John, that will rope in a
few I might have missed. Of course Tony Levin has played with his brother,
he's a jazz pianist. Between him and Bill they have played with enough
jazzers to hit the rest of them I would bet.

Anyway, I think you can see where this is going. If you hit a couple of key
people, they will branch off into countless other people, especially across
projects like the tribute albums.  Have I missed anybody important?

Randy Hammill

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:59:18 -0500
From: Larry Rader <lwrader at interport dot net>
Subject: The Talented Musicians of KC

  some guy said:

  I agree with Kathy Ottersten's view in ET#785 that the whole "six degrees"
  just shows how talented and wanted(as session musicians) the members of
  KC(past or present) really are. Is there any other band who has members who
  can be traced to almost anyone in the entertainment industry?

you really truly must be kidding.  the whole idea of 'six degrees' came from,
among other places,  some little parlor game
called 'six degrees of kevin bacon' and a play by a playwrite named, i think,
guare, both of which established that almost any
two people in history can be linked within six degrees or less.  putting aside
how asinine the whole thread became, i think that
what's stunning from the above comment is the amount of fripp worship required to
contemplate that only a band as mighty
as kc could so be traced to other famous people.  i'm glad this thread is done.

best, larry (who, upon meeting the fripp for the first time in 1979:
1. found him delightfully funny and gracious;
2. encountered no resistance to posing with yours truly for a flash picture; and,

3. received compliments from his highness over a photo i showed him which i took
of him playing guitar at a peter gabriel
concert, a photo which he cheerfully autographed)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:08:54 -0600
From: nic dot roozeboom at philips dot com
Subject: Re: Who is "Prolific Joe"?

"Prolific Joe" or "Joe the Prolific" as RF refers to him, is Joseph Haydn.
Regards,
Nic

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:06:38 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36 at sprynet dot com>
Subject: Re: Who is "Prolific Joe"?

> From: John Fabiani <johnx at windriver dot com>
> Subject: Who is "Prolific Joe"?
>
> Hello,
>
> Robert Fripp's diary has mentioned "Prolific Joe"
> on a couple occasions.  The context seems to suggest
> Prolific Joe is a recording artist.
>
> Anyone know who is "Prolific Joe"?

Classical composer Joseph Haydn, I'd venture to guess.  Most of Fripp's morning
pleaseure listening seems to come from the Austro-Germanic classical canon
(Ludwig the Grumpy, for example - that's Beethoven, naturally), with a few
British composers like Elgar and Vaughan Williams thrown in for good measure.

Haydn was indeed prolific, with over a hundred symphonies and dozens of fine
string quartets being just the tip of the iceberg.

Steve Smith
ssmith36 at sprynet dot com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:14:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Chelsea Snelgrove <chsnelgrove at yahoo dot com>
Subject: Re: The talented musicians of Crimson

Greetings:

     I agree with Darryl and Kathy Otterstein that the
plethora of 6 degrees connections shows the talent and
versatility of the Crimson musicians.  But, if I'm not
mistaken, the whole idea of the "six degrees of
separation" concept is that ANY two people on the
planet are connected by six (or less) degrees of
separation.  The trick is to figure out how.  So, all
of us should be connected to the Crimsonites by no
more than 6 degrees of separation.

                      Cheers,

                      Chelsea Snelgrove

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:29:56 -0500
From: "who what" <rother37 at hotmail dot com>
Subject: No Pictures & Thrak Box

I've held off on posting this because I figured others would have mentioned
it long before me.  But to date, it doesn't appear anyone has, so here goes:

I attended both the recent Boston performances.  One of the evenings (I
don't recall which now), during an improvisational segment, Trey was
manipulating & distorting some sort of loop or recording of a voice
speaking.  For a brief moment the voice/recording became clearly
intelligable.  It was repeating "No photos.  No photos."

I burst out laughing.  Was I the only person at Berklee to hear this and was
this unique to the Boston shows?

On a another topic--  I recently came across (and purchased)a KC item I was
unaware existed:  The Thrak CD in a paper sleeve packaged with the souvenir
Thrak tourbook inside an oblong silver metal hinged box.

Any idea how many of these were produced?    Is it unusual for me to have
found one so recently suddenly appearing in music store I frequent?

Peter Law

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:42:40 -0500
From: "Caruso, Josette" <JCaruso at Tiffany dot com>
Subject: The mostly male audience!

Nico and I go to a LOT of concerts...we usually see at least 1 show every
week in NYC. What was most unusual to us was the 99.98% male audience that
KC attracts.I am NOT complaining...every man there treated Nico and I with
respect and some of them were really good looking...But what I don't get is
this, Nico and I BOTH think the members of the band are VERY sexy and
attractive. Trey being Nico's very favorite, and I, having known Robert
since the 70's, have a sentimental attachment to him, but I did think that
Adrian was quite handsome and I was flattered by the short conversation that
we had....so how come more ladies aren't on to this band? Don't you DARE
touch upon this with any reference to intelligence!

Kisses...Josette

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:00:29 -0500
From: Jim Bailey <jimb at ehmail dot com>
Subject: Was I ahead of my time?

Hi folks,

Now that we've managed to deep six^2 degrees ('darft I call it'),
perhaps things can get back to a relatively useful level of discusion.

My contribution, after that rude interruption, concerns the "rubber
bass" that has been mentioned a few times here.

Back in the late 'seventies I bought an Ariston RD11 turntable. For
those unfamiliar with this model, it featured a very heavy two-piece
platter (centre part, approximately 10-12 cm dia., and outer ring,
approx. 30 cm dia.). The outer ring had two rubber rings inserted into
grooves, which supported the record. A few years later I decided to
replace the rubber rings with a felt mat.  It wasn't difficult to remove
them, and the join came apart rather easily. The short one wasn't good
for much, but the longer one, I found, would fit onto the cheap electric
guitar that I had (and actually still have), by tying one end to the
bridge and the other to one of the machine heads. Since it was
non-metallic, I had to use a paper clip over the pick-ups for it to
induce a signal, which worked rather well. I'd already removed the frets
some time before, filled in the slots with plastic wood, and painted the
whole fingerboard with black rust-proof paint (it was all I had).
Keeping it "tuned" was virtually impossible, but since I'm not a guitar
player, and only use it for experimental purposes that didn't matter. It
really sounded great, though. I wonder if any tapes survived.

Unfortunately it no longer survives, having succumbed to perhaps one too
many attempts at increasing the tension. I don't think it's worth going
after Ashbory.

Jim Bailey

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:51:32 -0500
From: "Luigi Giugliano" <scrutinizer981 at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Ladies love KC

In response to Mark Rehder from ET#789,
     That's awesome that you got your girl into KC.  I happen to have gotten
closer with my loved one through KC.  Her usual musical tastes is Eastern
music (Indian, Tibetan), rave, classical, jazz, hard rock and some pop.
Pretty eclectic tastes :) At different times, I decided to show her "Larks'
Tongues In Aspic" and "Discpline."
     I let her borrow "Discpline" and she instantly loved it.  Her key
favorites were "Elephant Talk", "The Sheltering Sky", "Indiscpline", and
"Matte Kudasai".  She thought Ade's lyrics were clever and other songs were
simply beautiful.  She's also a fan of T-Lev's playing. :)  Then while we
rode on the train, I played her some "Larks' Tongues In Aspic".  I played
her "LTIA Part 1", "Talking Drum", and "LTIA Part 2".  And again, she found
them to be so cool!  She loved esp. BB/Muir's percussion work and David
Cross's violin playing. :)
     By the Mark, I'm also a drummer and my girl loves any exotic, rhythmic
kind of music, so getting her into KC was no pulling teeth.  I feel so
lucky.  Dude, show her more like from the 73-74 era.  Song recommendation:
"Starless" (from "Red").  I'm sure she'll be mesmerized.

Luigi Giugliano
SCRUTINIZER981 at hotmail dot com
"There's no way that what I do can fit within a corporate format.  In the
United States, radio is a cultural embarrassment.  Most of the music that's
broadcast is harmful to your mental health."
                           -- FRANK ZAPPA

"Music is the cup which holds the wine of silence;
sound is that cup, but empty;
noise is that cup, but broken."
                           -- ROBERT FRIPP

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:14:14 -0500
From: "V.D.Jones" <djones at tgtel dot com>
Subject: Kurzweil Mellotron Samples

Anybody know of Mellotron samples available for Kurzweil K2500/K2600 synths?

VDJ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:54:36 -0000
From: "Cameron Devlin" <camerondevlin at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Bands Covering Crimson

My band covers several Crimson songs... we were even thinking of becoming a
tribute band to get more exposure. For our current set we've been learning:

Dinosaur
Three of a Perfect Pair
Larks' II

but in the past have played Matte Kudasai and Heartbeat.

Our website is at http://www.alteredstate.co.uk/

Cameron Devlin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:01:46 EST
From: GenoTT at aol dot com
Subject: Thrush 'lyrics'

>What exactly is that robotic voice saying in the piece?

During P4's "Thrush" I think the first phrase is 'double the length,' but
nothing else sounds coherent enough. On Heavy ConstruKction I can pick out
a few more: "the burial of the dead," "come in under the shadow," and
possibly "forbidden to see" (?), which are all phrases from T.S. Eliot's
The Waste Land. I've also noticed that the phrase 'Deception of the Thrush'
comes from his poem "Burnt Norton." Is one of the KC members a big Eliot
admirer, perhaps?

>Also, any idea who in the band is talking?  I saw it live twice and it didn't seem like 
>anyone was.

Trey makes the sounds through his guitar somehow. A device called "talker"
is listed under his instruments in HC and the ProjeKcts - I think he uses
samples of actual voices.

>Finally, am I the only one who finds the voice a little creepy?

The first time I put on HC the song gave me goose bumps. I've had friends
ask me to turn it off because it was just too spooky. You're not the only
one.  -g

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:11:41 +0100
From: "Thomas" <tpoisson at noos dot fr>
Subject: Thrakattack vs Heavy ConstruKction ?

Mike G wrote :

>>> "..I believe Heavy ConstruKction to be one of the best KC albums ever.
(The improv disc alone cuts ThraKattaK to shreds.) Yet, these versions were
handily surpassed by the performances I saw in NY/NJ this autumn. I'd love
to see the American tour documented with a Heavy ConstruKction Volume 2!
"<<<

As far as I would also love to see another set of improv from the 2000
american tour, I for one think that Thrakattack is superior to Heavy
Construkction disc 3, and most ProjeKcts.

To my ears, Thrakattack really went places never heard of before, and stands
more as a "definitive", truly radical and coherent piece of work than
HCside3. It sure takes time to get into it, but I always find it a very
unique listening experience.

I still tend to perceive HC side 3, as well as most ProjeKct work, often
more as "jamming" music (trying out different musical ideas over a
relatively "steady" rythm section) than "improvising" music (which I view
more like "spontaneous composition"). To me, this is where the difference
lay between KC 71-72 (a very good jamming band) and KC 72-74 (a mind blowing
improv band).

Don't get me wrong, I really like the ProjeKcts, but for me no ProjeKct CD
is a 100% rewarding listening experience (save P4, maybe). There are quite a
few moments where the music meanders without reaching for something vital.
This is the kind of critic people usually throw at improvised work, which
usually do not apply to KC, but I still feel it affects more the ProjeKcts
and recent KC improvs. I remember reading in Pat's or Trey's diary that they
were getting a bit tired of this way of improvising and I think they tried
out new approaches by the end of the US tour.

Oddly, I think the best projeKct work lies within the softer moments, where
sounscapes replace the lead guitar work and the music becomes more
"focused".

If KC were to take a radical next step, I would suggest newer ProjeKct work
include some vocals (a la "Tomorrow never knew Thela", a sublime piece), and
maybe less guitar solos (or guitar solos with less notes) which IMO
undermine the coherence of the music.

But then, this is only my subject-to-change opinion, and it would be
interesting to have other comments on the recent improvising work of KC.

Merry Xmas to all,

Thomas

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:05:54 +0100
From: "Markus Gnad" <richard dot gnad at liwest dot at>
Subject: Earthbound / USA

Hi all,

there's been some talk about Earthbound and USA recently. There's also been
much talk on this issue on DGM Guestbook, so I thought I'd just CTRL+C
CTRL+V and tell you what Dan from DGM Web has to say on this. It's obviously
the latest official word on that, and I hope Dan has no trouble if I forward
it to this forum.

Markus

  Dan (The Webmaster) replies:
  Since the question about Earthbound and USA is coming up so much lately,
let me re-iterate information I've given out on this in the past:

  There are no plans, as far as I am aware, to ever re-release Earthbound on
CD. There has been thought to issue what essentially would be a replacement
live recording of the Earthbound line-up, for general release, called
"Ladies Of The Road". When this would happen is continuously being pushed
back.

  As for USA, the plan had been to release a 2 CD set that on one CD would
contain the full 1974 Asbury Park show in it's raw form (i.e. sans studio
overdubs), and on the other CD, the original USA version remastered. Once
again plans for this keep getting pushed back or replaced by other
priorities, such as other releases or present day and future projects and
touring.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:50:01 EST
From: Robbriryon at aol dot com
Subject: Crimson Live Videos

Hi People!
Once again I see mentioned the "Live in Japan" video.  Please, I would love
to know where I can purchase ANY Crimson live video from ANY era.  I've
searched the countryside far and wide in my immediate locality and even
surfed the web looking for a hint as to where I can purchase such marterial
but so far I've found nohting.  If anyone knows a web site where I can obtain
these videos, can you please send me the info?  Thank much gang!  Take care.
John Garaguso
Robbriryon at aol dot com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 21:13:11 EST
From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com
Subject: Re: "Lyrics" to Deception of Thrush?

Noah Green wrote:

>What exactly is that robotic voice saying in the piece?

It's a series of snippets from T. S. Eliot's "The Waste Land."  (Another
Eliot poem, "Burnt Norton," is the source of the piece's title.)  The version
on disc 2 of _Heavy ConstruKction_ contains the following lines:

"And drank coffee...THE BURIAL OF THE DEAD...with spring rain.  Winter kept
us warm...in the colonnade and went on...and talked for...frightened.  He
said, Marie...you feel free...What are the roots that clutch...images, where
the sun beats, and the dead...no sound of water...Come in under the
shadow...different from either your shadow at morning..."

Get on down,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew (two degrees of separation from RF)

http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html
http://www.mp3.com/michaelpdawson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:17:54 -0800
From: "list bot" <belewbot at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Adrian Birthday Tribute

Adrian Belew's birthday is December 23rd. Just a matter of days away.  The
Tribe has been compiling a "Birthday Website" to honor his day.

Any admirers who would like to post a brief message to Adrian, contribute
original art (be it visual or musical) are certainly welcome to send their
material to rhino at 2xtreme dot net. The website will reside at
http://www.2xtreme.net/rhino. There is only a welcome page there until the
"card" is posted on the evening of the 22nd.
Please send your creative material sooner than later. We would like to have
everything ready to go by Wednesday, the 20th of December.
Thanks,
belewbot

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:39:39 EST
From: Doynuy at aol dot com
Subject: essential holiday listening

hello.......

for those of you in need of holiday cheer, i  have the perfect remedy! listen
to Fripp's rendition of "Silent Night" off KC's Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream cd
(released in 1996 on Virgin and probably out of print. it also includes a
great live version of "walking On Air".MP3?).

happy holidays

p.s. research indicates that listening to King Crimson raises your IQ 15pts.
who needs mozart?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:00:05 -0500
From: "Craig J. Clark" <cjclark at earthlink dot net>
Subject: Re: TGD

In ET #787 "Paul and CJ" wrote:
>
> Yet another lurker finally out of the closet, but I have to tell someone
> about my latest purchase.

I, too, recently plunked down the money to finally purchase this
staggering 4-CD set.  And, while I've only listened to the first three
discs so far, I can say without fear of contradiction that I do not
regret doing so.

First impressions -- A great set, beautifully put together.  I wish I'd
taken the chance on it when it was first released but I was still
finding my way through KC's back catalog and -- being a poor college
student -- could only afford one box set at a time and the first round
went to Frame by Frame (a purchase I have never regretted).  By the time
I had the wherewithal to get The Great Deceiver it was already out of
print.  Now that it's back in print again I am so glad I took advantage
of DGM's "free shipping in November" deal.  (I'm sure many other ETers
did likewise.)  Now I gotta start making up for lost time.

One question still remains:  What the hell is John Wetton singing in
"Doctor Diamond"?  Are we simply not meant to know what the hell the
song's about?

--
Craig J. Clark          "I believe -- so strongly -- in mayonnaise."
cjclark at earthlink dot net                                 --Elmo Oxygen,
http://home.earthlink.net/~cjclark            denizen of Schizopolis

------------------------------

End of Elephant Talk Digest #790
********************************