Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #79 Discipline, Number 79 Friday, 12 February 1993 Today's Topics: ** From the Editor **: 'Are you a musician?' poll: RESULTS Offer to exchange band tapes Wetton on Starless | Belew's 'Voice' Sylvain comments song lyrics random thoughts Where are the women?/ENO Adrian Belew Fripp and The Grid Re: "Sleepless" and "Matte Kudasai" Lyrics for The King Crimson Barber Shop Great Deceiver review in DOWNBEAT Paolo re Sylvian Musician's 100 Best Guitar Players Italian Fripp book?/boots/improvisations Crimson Videos sought [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 12 Feb 93 10:36:29 GMT From: Toby Howard Subject: ** From the Editor ** 'Are you a musician?' poll: RESULTS Hi everyone. Welcome to Discpline #79. Thanks to the 98 people who responded to the 'are you a musician?' poll. Here's the breakdown. If you haven't responded and want to tell me what instrument you play, or whether you aren't a musician, you can still do so, and I'll update the list. Hey, we could form SOME BAND!!!!! Air drumming x Bass xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Bassoon x Clarinet xxx Composition xxx Studio engineer xx Flute xxxx Gramophone xx Guitar xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Guitar (crafty tuning) xxx Harmonica xx Keyboards xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Mandolin xx Mellotron x Non-musician xxxxxxx Percussion xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Recorder x Saxophone xxxxxxx Stick xxxx Trumpet xx Unspecified instrument x Violin x Vox xxxxx [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 Feb 93 16:11:45 MET From: E dot Roos at buro dot kun dot nl Subject: Offer to exchange band tapes I play a little guitar (acoustic) and that I have an Ensoniq EPS 16+ sampling workstation on which I make complete musical productions (it has an 8-track sequenzer on board). Are there among the readers of Discipline people who write songs (and put them on tape)? I ask this, because I'd like to exchange the tape I've made with my band "Koorts", to tapes that other people made. About the tape: It's called "Reboot yo'self" and it consists 60 minutes of weirdo-trashy-pop-music, sung in Dutch, German and English. Looking forward to your reaction, greetings, Eric [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 18:07:54 +0100 From: Bj|rn Lisper Subject: Wetton on Starless | Belew's 'Voice' tm1cy1 writes: ..... >Another question I would like to ask is whether David Cross was still a >member of the band on Starless & Bible Black? As the electronic discography >suggests that the personell only consisted of Fripp/Bruford/Wetton although >there is some Violin & Viola on the tracks it does not feature as heavily as >it with Larks. Had he become a session member by then? He was most definitely a member on "Starless and Bible Black". On "Red", however, the band had became a power trio. (Although Cross still appears on the live improv. track on side B, which by the way also is on disc one, somewhat remixed, in the "Great Deciever" CD box.) Bjorn Lisper [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 9:45:08 PST From: "John M. Relph" Subject: Sylvain comments Paolo Valladolid writes: > >I thought I'd check out this David Sylvian guy who's supposed to be >the next lead singer for King Crimson, so I rented Japan's _Oil on >Canvas_ concert video. Hate to say this, but I just wasn't >impressed. Hmm, Japan was early Sylvian, before he left the band and got some clue. You should listen to his "Gone To Earth", or even better, "Secrets of the Beehive". I think Sylvian got over his "art for artiness'" sake persona of the early Japan days, and has since been turned on to the likes of J.G. Bennett and is writing much more interesting music. "Secrets of the Beehive" gets a respectable amount of play around my house. More so than much King Crimson and Fripp. -- John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 09:51:20 PST From: We welcome you to the Lollipop Guild Subject: song lyrics Does anyone know the Lyrics to the last song on Red (Starless and Bible Black I think). Or especially One More Red Nightmare. I've been listening to the dang songs for 20 or so years and I still can't make out all the words. That was probably the plan eh? Jay [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: davidh at kau1 dot kodak dot com (David Hodson) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 09:49:08 -0500 Subject: random thoughts Some random thoughts on Discipline #78: >From: John R. Nash > >The end of the disc has a long pause, followed by Fripp's discussion of >"how to tune two Mellotrons." I think this was inadvertently put on, >through the magic of computer editing.... Oh come on! Has Fripp EVER been known to do something inadvertently? :-) Re _Exposure_: one interesting (annoying!) thing is that even mildly determined collectors (such as myself) need to own both the album and the CD, since a number of tracks have not only been substantially remixed for the latter, but use completely different vocal takes. (From memory, at least Disengage, Chicago, and Mary use alternate vocal tracks. I'd have to re-listen to the vinyl to give any more detail). (Gabriel still hits a great bum note in "Flood", though :-P ) Although I would love to have a CD copy of _USA_ - well, at least the _Asbury Park_ improv - has anyone else noted that the version of _Schizoid Man_ on _Great Deceiver_ is the _USA_ recording? (or am I stating the obvious?) (and thanks to all contributors for keeping Discipline a great read.) David [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 20:44:24 PST From: dawnp at sol dot metaware dot com (Dawn Perchik) To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Where are the women?/ENO Looks like bunches of us are musiscians (a nifty but somehow unsurprising bit of trivia)... but what about FEMALES??? I mean, I see lotsa guy names in Discipline, but am I the only female??? I can understand why muscicians like KC (it is music afterall), but why does KC (and progressive music in general) appeal to men and not women? And, I'm all for Eno as KC's 5th member (!!). Is the KC revival really gunna happen and when? When might I get a chance to make up for those sheltered years when KC toured and I was only discovering that there was actually life after pop music? And, when am I ever gunna get the chance to see Eno in person? Does he ever tour? No one here has even heard of him (sniffle sniffle). Thanks, dawn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: dafuller at sequent dot com (David Fuller) Subject: Adrian Belew [[ This is forwarded from alt.fan.frank-zappa -- Toby ]] Used to dig Adrian in various bars and venues in and around Champaign-Urbana, IL where Adrian lived for several years... It was also one of the places where King Crimson practiced so it was not unusual to see Robert Fripp enjoying morning espresso in the Daily Grind coffee shop. Adrian was just playing in a lounge band in Cincinatti before Frank discovered him, I believe the band was called "Sweetheart". Frank showed for the first audition and amazed him sufficiently to give another shot. Then Adrian was going to go back to Cincy and be with his family again, when he met up with David Bowie, who needed a guitar player for the Scary Monsters tour (the last of Bowie's best, IMHO). All of the tracks on Scary Monsters are Robert Fripp-isms and were entirely tape-edited together. Adrian picked up the album and learned the tunes by ear, including tunes which had NEVER been played "live". Fripp and Bowie were completely amazed by this feat. After the Scary Monsters tour, Adrian met David Byrne, who needed a guitar player for Remain in Light. So he did a tour with them and ended up being artist in residence at a studio in Lake Geneva (WI?). Adrian's live shows were incredible. He taped the drums himself (he's also a drummer) and he, his bass player, sax, and piano player would hold forth on such weighty tomes as "Adidas in Heat", "Peas", and "Swingline" and "Momur" (Momur was always the highlight). Adrian did his thing back then with an ancient Roland Chorus amp, with such accoutriments as a Boss Phazor tapes to his mikestand. The juxtaposition was critical for getting some of his effects like Elephant Talk. Another popular position was to wave the guitar in front of the amp. Amazing. Just amazing. -- Dave Fuller All opinions expressed are my own and not Sequent Computer Systems those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. dafuller at sequent dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 20:37:55 GMT From: Toby Howard Subject: Fripp and The Grid In Discipline #74, Anil Prasad reported that Fripp plays on the Grid album "Electric Head?". In fact the album in question is "456" (Virgin, CDV 2696, 1992). He plays guitar on the tracks "Ice Machine", "Aquarium" and "Fire Engine Red", with Frippertronics on "Ice Machine" too. It's quite an eclectic album, and Fripp's contributions are fairly short and sweet, but instantly recognisable. On another topic, for a taste of what the new Crimson *might* sound like, if Sylvian is involved, take a listen to the track "" on David Sylvian's "Gone to Earth". Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: cs163wel at sdcc8 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Re: "Sleepless" and "Matte Kudasai" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 18:13:57 PST About "Sleepless": I recently heard a version of this song on the local *alternative* rock station which was quite different from the version I have on my cassette copy of _Three of a Perfect Pair_(Definitive Edition). The difference was mainly in the drums and the addition of atmosphering effects processing. Is this the Bob Clearmountain mix. About "Matte Kudasai": I have this on a non-Definitive CD version of _Discipline_. Having heard this song before on _The Compact King Crimson_ I was surprised to hear overdubbed GR300 noodling by Fripp (I'm assuming it was Fripp). I take it this extra improv was deleted in the Definitive version (mine says it was made in Germany)? -- ******************************************************************************** Paolo Valladolid pvallado at sdcc13 dot ucsd dot edu Q: I want to learn how to play jazz but I don't want to learn scales or arpeggios. What should I do? George Van Eps: Learn to play drums. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1993 11:57:19 -0500 From: "Walter K. Daniel" Subject: Lyrics for The King Crimson Barber Shop As proof that I have too much time on my hands, here are the lyrics that I transcribed from Disc 3 of _Frame by Frame_: THE KING CRIMSON BARBER SHOP by Tony Levin, Tony Levin, Tony Levin, and Tony Levin I'm Tony I'm Billy I'm Bobby I'm Belew We're here to sing and play for you Oh we're the King Crimson band Don't you know it We're the best in all the land All the land We play bass and the drums and guitar for you And if you really want we'll throw the Stick in too Oh we're the King Crimson band on E.G. Records* And you know we think that's grand So settle back to have some fun And tap your foot in twenty-one Cause we're the King Crimson band You better believe it The King Crimson band We don't do encores The King Crimson band No photos please Cause we're the King Crimson band We don't do 21st Century Schitzoid Man But we're the King Crimson band * I'm not sure about the "on E.G. Records" line. The word "records" is pretty clear, but the ones just before are a bit garbled. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1993 11:57:54 -0500 From: "Walter K. Daniel" Subject: Great Deceiver review in DOWNBEAT I noticed a review of _The Great Deceiver_ in a somewhat unexpected place: DOWNBEAT, an American jazz magazine. The review by Jon Andrews appears in the March 1993 issue; he gives the set four stars (very good) out of five. Here are a few excerpts: "This version of Crimson played with driven intensity and dark fury. In a time of 'smiley' buttons, this band did not wish anybody a happy day. Fripp's 'type-A' guitar was the focal point. Instantly recognizable, Fripp attacked with the speed and precision of a striking rattlesnake. The success of a King Crimson date was inevitably tied to the quality and quantity of Fripp's guitar. In concert, the songs became vehicles for reconstructions and experiments. _Great Deceiver_ fascinates because it delivers extended 'blows,' free-form improvisations, and reworkings of familiar material. The improvs can settle into crunching, ominous grooves or drift out to the final frontier. Unless you were in attendance, you haven't heard anything quite like it." "The sound is startlingly clear, if imperfect. Fripp's guitar is tense and nasty; Wetton's bass has a deep, remorseless boom; and Bill Bruford, recently liberated from Yes, sounds hyperactive on drums and percussion." "The packaging is first-rate, including Fripp's copious, entertaining liner notes." [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 10:44:53 +1000 From: keens at phillip dot edu dot au Subject: Paolo re Sylvian Hopefully I am not the only one to come to David Sylvian's rescue! The later Japan stuff moved pretty well away from the glam rock early days - the only Japan I have is the twodisk compilation (name escapes me, but has a Russel Mills cover). I still enjoy it (though I don't know why gentlemen take polaroids!). The visions of chinatype material indicates where sylvian was going. And in the post-Japan period he has put out primarily vocal albums (including Gone to Earth which has the main Fripp involvement, and includes one album of ambient instrumentals), two instrumental albums (in the noodling-vein) with holgar czuckay, worked with various others such as Ryuchi Sakamoto (see especiallythe title track of his Heartbeat) and Bill Nelson, and an album/tape/12" single Alchemy., which includes Steel Cathedrals, the soudtrack to a video, which features fripp [the full 20' version is on a cassette, not the box set cd). Speaking of which a beautiful box set (Russel Mills artwork again) is available of the Sylvian solo stuff. Also an album by Rain Tree Crow, which was basicly a reformed Japan - vocal and instrumentals. In summary, since Japan DS has worked with all the right people, on vocal music and Eno-type ambient stuff. What would he bring KC? Well, finally someone who can actually sing! IMHO he has a beautiful, haunting voice, which would compliment rather than cut across the music. Plus he's not too slow in the music writing disciplne either. jeremy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: cs163wel at sdcc8 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Musician's 100 Best Guitar Players Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 17:32:57 PST Anyone read the 100 Best Guitarists issue of Musician magazine? In case Jeff is wondering, yes, Allan Holdsworth made the list ;-). However, neither of our two favorite Crimson axeslingers made the list! I can't comprehend how certain players (like that blowhard Malmsteen) can be considered to be somehow "better" than either Robert or Adrian, especially Robert. The folks at Musician cannot plead ignorance since Robert wrote for them! How anyone can forget the man who composed and performed the Lark's Tongue in Aspic series is beyond me. Before I rant some more, I guess we should bear in mind that these kind of lists are subjective at best. Guitar Player's 25 Who Shook the World list included Adrian but not Robert and The Guitar Handbook's The Guitar Innovators list includes Robert but not Adrian. -- ******************************************************************************** Paolo Valladolid pvallado at sdcc13 dot ucsd dot edu LSD, a drug that turns hippies into yuppies; the most dangerous chemical known to mankind... -Frank Zappa [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 11:12:46 -0800 From: Malcolm Humes Subject: Italian Fripp book?/boots/improvisations I saw a non-Tamm Fripp book at Tower Berkeley that looked quite interesting though it was in italian! It did have English lyrics through the 80's but I'm not sure how inclusive it was. It was a large paperback, not the style I've seen of a series of other italian "profile" books. Too bad I can't speak or read italian. Anyone familiar with this, and is it a substantial history and overview? It looked like it might be pretty interesting. - - - - - - >from keens at phillip dot edu dot au Subject: Unofficial live recordings >In the Fripp discography, reference is made to some live Eno/Fripp >recordings. A couple of questions > what are they like (thats the easy one :-)) I've heard most of them and am not too impressed - the recordings aren't as good as the released Fripp and Eno work and I didn't find much unique of interest. I've found some of the other bootlegged Eno and Fripp/Crimson to be much more interesting. The Fripp and Eno stuff all sounds too similar and it's awfully tender and gentle stuff easily marred by bad recordings or pressings. - - - - - - > from knishimo at fox dot cce dot usp dot br (Kazuo Nishimoto) Subject: Asbury Park >The track Asbury Park in _USA_ live album is an improvisation? It don't >appears in any other King Crimson album. It's an improvisation. Fripp/King Crimson were inclined to name the improvs after the location of the concert, thus "Providence" was taken from the concert at Providence, Rhode Island (USA), and "Asbury Park" was taken from Asbury Park, New Jersey (USA) (an area more known for it's local hero, Bruce Springsteen). - Malcolm @wrs.com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: cuyahoga at aol dot com Subject: Crimson Videos sought Date: Tue, 09 Feb 93 22:54:47 EST I am searching for original videos in the NTSC broadcast format, the one use in the USA, (on VHS or LaserDisc) or copies (VHS) of the two King Crimson videos from the 80's: "King Crimson - The Noise" & "Three Of A Perfect Pair" Of course, I will take care of postage and all other necessary expenses. As a new fan of Crimson, I would love to have some of this classic live performance footage (espically since the 80's Crimson is my favourite)! Again, if you can help...great! If not, I thank you for taking the time to read this. :-) Sincerely, Cuyahoga at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.