Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #785 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 785 Monday, 11 December 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: The six degrees thread is over (almost) More Heavy ConstruKction, please Fripp to Sinatra- easy KCCC #13, Track 19 sinnathrakc-one way to Fripp/Sinatra Re: Son of "Another six degrees" Stop It! Stop It! Stop It! more Gentle Giant KC Collectors Club TCOL tab + do YOU play KC? liposuKction (sorry, I had to) KC to Black Sabbath -KC to Kiss! 360 degrees of exasperation Fripp to Steve Martin And... another six degrees (or less) Re: Steve Martin to RF Re: Steve Martin to Fripp Track 19 STEVE MARTIN-FRIPP Sylvian/Fripp Red/LTIA reissues Degrees To Fripp (Will Blouin) Fripp To Sinatra Deluxe Edition, Oprah, Nashville Flaw Fripp 2 Sinatra Re: Move on, etc. ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 10:37:12 -0500 From: "Toby Howard (ET Moderator)" Subject: NEWS: The six degrees thread is over (almost) OK, enough already. No more posts to ET on the six degrees thread please. I already have the next two ETs queued, full of this stuff. The last ET to feature the six degrees game will be ET787. As of now, any six-degree posts to ET will automatically go into the big bit-bucket. Six-degree enthusiasts, please continue by private mail if you wish, or set up a chatroom or something! Cheers Toby ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 10:37:12 -0500 From: "Michael Garnice" Subject: More Heavy ConstruKction, please Robert has always likened a studio album to a love letter, and a live performance to hot date. One song where this was always obvious is Indiscipline; every live version is superior to the studio track. This also holds true for most, if not all, of TCOL. While there is nothing wrong with the studio versions, with each leg of the tour, this material grew better and better. I believe Heavy ConstruKction to be one of the best KC albums ever. (The improv disc alone cuts ThraKattaK to shreds.) Yet, these versions were handily surpassed by the performances I saw in NY/NJ this autumn. Id love to see the American tour documented with a Heavy ConstruKction Volume 2! -Mike G ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 10:46:43 -0500 From: "Dan B." Subject: Fripp to Sinatra- easy Last E-T, Dan Cooper wrote: "Here's one to challenge the old noggin: Robert Fripp to Frank Sinatra." I'm sure there will be a bunch of other posts answering this as this is quite an easy one too. One of Tony Levin's earliest (first?) professional bass playing gigs was with Buddy Rich's big band. There are a bunch of big band recordings & concerts which feature Sinatra with Rich's band. One later event from the 80's I recall seeing as well on tv was Sinatra performing with the Rich band in South America. 'Concert for the Americas' I believe it was called. What I remember most about this video was: first Buddy did an instrumental set with the band, i.e., "West Side Story medley", etc.; then Sinatra came out and they became his backing band. What I remember most about this part was 'Ol Blue Eyes hilarious rendition of the Beatles' "Something" in which he injected those lovable ad-libs he was so famous for. In this case: "Something in the way she moves me, JACK!, attracts me like no other lover, woh, woh, whoh woh woh." Frank Sinatra also introduced the song with the immortal: "Written by George Harrison with an arrangement by Nelson Riddle..." -- "But as far as I know, they may be trying to wrap me in cellophane and sell me; brothers help me, and don't worry about looking at the score." -- Jimi Hendrix ("Somewhere") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 10:43:55 -0600 From: "Loren W. Claypool" Subject: KCCC #13, Track 19 I received a prompt response from DGM USA. The track 19 imperfection is consistent an all copies of KCCC #13. Even with this, I highly recommend for purchase. Best, Loren http://www.theclaypools.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:46:23 -0300 From: "jose poggio" Subject: sinnathrakc-one way to Fripp/Sinatra hey there is only one way from Fripp to Sinnatra.....the not yet released soundscape called SINNATHRAKC which Fripp would invent to close the circle easier than you ET-ers do.... jose ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 13:36:46 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Hartley Subject: Re: Son of "Another six degrees" James A Hogard wrote: > One get almost anywhere from Fripp (I'm still stumped on a > Shaggs link...). Hmmm. I can't get to this one directly, because I don't think any of the Wiggin sisters ever played with anyone else, so the first link is pretty tenuous here. The Shaggs' first album was re-released on Red Rooster thanks to the hard work of Terry Adams of NRBQ. Al Anderson, formerly the Q's guitarist, has a solo album ("Pay Before You Pump") on which Elvis Costello appears. Use your favorite Elvis C.->Fripp connection for the rest. Boy, I love these things - perhaps too much! ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh at brainiac dot com 12 Emma G Lane, Narragansett, RI 02882 - vox 401.782.9042 Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 18:46:40 -0000 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: Stop It! Stop It! Stop It! I second the writer's thoughts in #783 that the Six Degrees discussion STOP. Since there are so many who continue to post such foolishness perhaps they should have their OWN newsletter, eh? Stephen Goodman http://www.earthlight.net/Studios * The free Loop of the Week! http://www.mp3.com/StephenGoodman * New MP3 Releases! http://StephenGoodman.iuma.com * Even more MP3s! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 10:46:20 -0800 From: Jeff Kamil Subject: more Gentle Giant Just wanted to add to this thread about the newly remastered In A Glass House. It was remastered by members of Gentle Giant and includes two live tracks from the Plying the Fool tour but not on the Playing the Fool album. It is being sold directly by Alucard (run by Kerry & Lesly Minnear). The web site where it can be purchased from is: http://www.gentlegiantmusic.com/index.shtml Also, visit the Gentle Giant Official web site, it's excellent: http://www.blazemonger.com/GG/ Hail! Jeff Kamil ************************************** Jeff Kamil/Harry the Hat Productions http://www.harryhat.com ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 00 13:57:23 EST From: James Dusewicz Subject: KC Collectors Club What is the Discipline Records Url and specifically, can I join the Collectors club online from that Url? [ http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.com/news/club.htm -- Toby ] jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 20:04:40 +0100 From: "Marcus Enochsson" Subject: TCOL tab + do YOU play KC? Hey all! I just wanted to congratulate you all to the recently earned possibility to learn how to play The ConstruKction of Light. I sent a tab of it a few minutes ago to ET-web. I have taken care of the two guitars, but we want to play it in my band, and I haven't looked at the bass lines, so I wonder if anyone has any idea of how it's played on a NORMAL bass (as far as possible)? Out of curiousity, and while speaking of playing KC tunes, what other bands that play such are subscribed to ET? And what songs do you play? Earlier today we ran through Red for the first time, and nailed it right away, to our surprise. Lark's II and Dinosaur have also been semi-part of our repertoire. Haven't done anything live yet, though. Ahem... Concerning the 6 degrees, though I find it quite amusing to read, it's getting a bit much now, isn't it? Sincerely, Marcus Enochsson www.mp3.com/zealous ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 14:18:01 -0500 From: Sylvan Subject: liposuKction (sorry, I had to) Bravo! > As an end note: I really enjoy TCoL, I have since it came out. I loved the > performances that I was able to attend. I also loved the Trey Gunn Band, > the Tony Levin, Bill's Earthworks and Robert's soundscapes shows. To me, > each of the performances really showed how each of these musicians can > contribute to great music. I want to make it known to all of those involved > with Crimson that I look forward to whatever new proje(K)cts - Crimson or > otherwise - that you are involved in. To Pat and Trey specifically > (although this could be Adrian several years ago, etc.) usually only the > complaints are voiced. I believe the majority of the fans really like what > they hear, but most people don't take the time to write up something > positive. So, Thanks, and keep it coming! I'll throw my voice in the mix: I like tCoL. I don't think it's the best thing Crimson have ever done. I'd put it somewhere smack dab in the middle, which is still vastly superior to most bands' best output. The one song that really drags for me is Oyster Soup. I will say this: it is by far their most mood-dependent album, and depending on how you're feeling at the time it can range from wonderful to utterly unlistenable. Strong stuff. Now the obligatory 6 degrees: King Crimson --> They Might Be Giants -- Sylvan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:20:48 EST From: JMRosen at aol dot com Subject: KC to Black Sabbath -KC to Kiss! In a message dated 12/9/00 5:22:05 PM, you wrote: "Pierre SIGALAS" Wrote: >Subject: Re : KC to Donovan > >Cozy Powell played with Donovan Cozy Powell to Black Sabbath then replaced by Eric Singer (drums) who later went on to KISS! I'd love to see Kiss and KC on the same bill! Even if Gene Simmons and Fripp teamed up for projekct Kiss ;-) DEMOCRATS FOR OZZY! After he chose Jewish Senator Joseph Lieberman to be his running mate, Al Gore was asked if he would respect the Sabbath. The vice-president quickly replied "only if Ozzy is singing." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 13:24:00 -0600 From: "Michael Sheehan" Subject: 360 degrees of exasperation masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) writes in ET 703: >> Toby, could we suggest the answers to the six degrees puzzles are made by private e-mail? Or somebody will have to explain me the interest of this game (?). << Toby, and any others, I am relieved to find there is someone besides me who is less than fascinated by these tedious "six degrees" exercises. I find them tiresome in the extreme, second only to the "Fripp is a jerk who is punishing the audience by not providing encores" threads as the single greatest motivator I have to not read ET. The signal-to-noise ratio is either ramping down or my patience grows thinner as I age -- or perhaps both. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 13:28:03 -0600 From: Bob Kelley Subject: Fripp to Steve Martin OK, this one's a stretch. 1. Fripp played with Levin (duh) 2. Levin played with Buddy Rich 3. Buddy Rich appeared on the Muppet Show 4. Steve Martin also appeared on the Muppet Show (and in the Muppet Movie as the waiter w/o pants). Please don't hit me... bk > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 20:38:59 +0100 From: Krzysztof_Koz3owski Subject: And... another six degrees (or less) Fripp to Freddie Mercury.... (I know three-degrees solution, and You?) Koz3o ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 14:39:42 -0500 From: Kathryn Ottersten Subject: Re: Steve Martin to RF In ET 783 Will Blouin asked: > Steve Martin (the actor) to Fripp... Any takers? Sure. Steve Martin was on the Original Cast Album from the Broadway/Film version of "Little Shop of Horrors." The drummer on this was Barry Morgan. He has been a long-time English session player, and has worked with many people that can easily be tracked to RF, but the easiest probably are: 1) he drummed on all the early Elton John albums; EJ tried out (and was rejected) for lead singer in KC in late 1969 or early 1970. 2) he played on Magna Carta's album "Seasons," released in 1970. The keyboardist on this was Rick Wakeman. Do I need to go further than this? And finally, 3) he did some studio drumming with Bowie, and appears on the "Bowie at the Beeb" set. Somewhere deep in the folds of my cerebellum is a recollection that Fripp had something to do with Bowie, at some point or another. :-) Kathy ps: the thing that one comes away with from all these exercises is a further impression of the quality of people who have played in the mighty KC. Ian W., Tony L., BB, Mel Collins, Ade, Ian Mc., Pat M., etc. etc. have worked with so many people, either live or in the studio, in such divergent forms of music, that it is possible to link the Krim-boys almost anywhere. pps: the Elton John connection reminds me of a small bit of kindness that occurred to me recently. What if RF had let him sing for KC, even only on one track on ItWoP? Then we would have the indignity of a former Krim doing all these awful Disney/Broadway musicals! I shudder at the idea. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 15:02:12 -0500 From: Mathias Thallmayer Subject: Re: Steve Martin to Fripp Will Blouin wrote: >Here's One: > >Steve Martin(the actor) to Fripp... Steve Martin was Saturday Night Live numerous times. Fripp performed on Saturday Night Live. You could also go: Crimson on "Fridays" Michael "Kramer" Richards Jerry Seinfeld Steve Martin or: "Fridays" Mark Blankfield Mel Brooks Carl Reiner Steve Martin or: Fripp Andy Summers - musical director for: Dennis Miller Steve Martin -- Mathias ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 15:29:20 -0500 From: Ted White Subject: Track 19 In ET #783, Dave Lane sez: "Bassdude007 at aol dot com wrote regarding the problem with CC13, track19: >Nothing defective in the CD at all... simply great ALTERNATE time music, a >nice mixdown, quality producing by Fripp and Singleton, Digital HELL from >Pat.... > >Track #19 is The way it's supposed to be.... Tony's jam Rocks! > >Remember the niceness of the tape runout at the end of "The Mincer".... "This is nothing like that at all. It sounds like what you'd get with a dirty or scratched CD, or one with a manufacturing defect. Others have even reported that their copy even skips to another track when they play that track at one of the same places where I just hear all kinds of digital nastiness. Odd time sigs, tape runouts, various clicks, buzzes & pops from the studio I could handle. This is just bad data." Maybeso, but not on *my* copy. I hear no "defects" of any kind when the track ends. This leads me to believe that this is a *tracking* problem and is caused by some players. Track 19 is the next to the last track on a 67+ minute CD. When players do having tracking problems it's usually with the last (outermost) tracks on a CD. I suggest people who have problems with this CD try it on other players before assuming it's a manufacturing defect. (But it still could be one; maybe I got a non-defective copy.) --TW (Dr P) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:37:26 -0800 From: "Michael Destefano" Subject: STEVE MARTIN-FRIPP STEVE MARTIN HOSTED SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE---------DO YOU WANT TO TRACE ALL THE ARTISTS THAT HAVE APPEARED ON THE SHOW TO MR. FRIPP? I'LL GIVE YOU THE FIRST ONE THAT CAME TO MIND: BRIAN FERRY TO PETER SINFIELD(HE PRODUCED THE FIRST ROXY MUSIC ALBUM)TO FRIPP ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:43:21 EST From: GenoTT at aol dot com Subject: Sylvian/Fripp While browsing through a local used CD shop I ran across a live album from Sylvian & Fripp, called "Kings of the Stone Age." Since it's seemingly impossible to find "Damage" short of selling a kidney, I'm seriously inclined to pick this one up. The song list is somewhat similar to "Damage," but the selections and running times are different. Has anyone else heard of this, or is it a somewhat unofficial release? -g ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 21:20:45 +0000 From: J Green Subject: Red/LTIA reissues According to Amazon.co.uk remastered versions of Red & LTIA are to be released on 29th January 2001, on Virgin (CDVKC5/CDVKC7). Since this is hot on the heels of the recent digipaks releases, does this mean these are the same recordings, but in ordinary CD cases? Anyone got inside onfo on this? BTW, the SABB remaster does not appear to be so listed. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 21:34:19 -0000 From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: Degrees To Fripp (Will Blouin) Easy! Steve Martin to Monty Python Monty Python to Robert Fripp..... Steve Martin presented "No Parrot Sketch Included", which also had the 6 members of Monty Python in the same studio, and thus they worked together. A backward sample saying "one thing is for sure, the sheep is not a creature of the air" from the Monty Python TV series was used on Haaden Two from Exposure. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 16:48:07 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Fripp To Sinatra Deluxe Edition, Oprah, Nashville Flaw I was a little slow posting and Warren used my first choice in ET 783:fripp to bowie (Heroes) to Bing Crosby (Drummer Boy) and there has to be something that Crosby and Sinatra did together! ---------------- Crosby and Sinatra are both in "Robin And The Seven Hoods" and I believe I have also seen footage of Bing and Frank singing duets on Frank's old TV show. Here's another holiday one. Fripp to Levin who plays on Robbie Robertson's first (And highly recommended to you all) solo album. Robbie's fellow members from the Band participated on a various artist concept album called "Largo" which included Cyndi Lauper on vocals. Cyndi and Frank do a swingin' rendition of "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town" on A Very Special Christmas 2. There is probably an easier Lauper link but this is the only one I could do without resorting to "We Are The World", and once you do that there just is no point to the game anymore (if there ever was). Here's one by marriage. Paul Simon via Adrian or Tony. Paul appeared with Woody Allen in "Annie Hall". Woody was married to Mia Farrow who was married (or at least dated for awhile) to Frank Sinatra. A bold new challenge:Fripp to Oprah. (A clue not everyone would have. While surfing channels once I saw Oprah appear as an honorary Supreme with Diana Ross. Get to Diana and you are there. I have to weigh in on this defect thing on the Nashville Sessions. I have enjoyed this cd as much as anything going back to Thrak. I am late for things because I sit in the parking lot waiting for Big Funk or Jimmy Bond to end before I can get out of my car. Tony's Jam has a 2 second digital breakup during a 13 minute song that is part of a 70 minute cd comprised of studio outtakes. It does not ruin the cd for me. If only individual runs had the defect, members could request a new copy. This is not the case. It is on all copies. If it is on the master, would you prefer that they delete Tony's Jam or fade it out where the defect is? Before I knew they all had it, I considered writing for a replacement, but didn't think it was worth doing without the cd for a couple of weeks if I had to mail it back. Put it in perspective. If we are bitchy enough, maybe DGM will decide it isn't worth the hassle to dredge up this stuff for a bunch of ingrates. The club was always presented as being a way to give access to material that was not suitable for general release. Prospective members are warned not to join if they have any doubts. For those who truly can't put up with this minor glitch, perhaps DGM should accept it as a return and credit you one more cd in the future. If they offer no remedy, you could not go wrong by putting your cd up for sale or trade on these pages. To any non members who see a copy offered here I strongly recommend you snatch it up if you enjoy the double trio and the Projekcts. Also, the delays between releases. We were sold 6 cd's over about a year to be issued approximately 2 months apart. They have never been able to hold strictly to this schedule and who knew Gregg or Pete would block release of Hyde Park? A little patience is in order here. Time to get off my soapbox. Good luck on Fripp to Oprah. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 23:14:36 +0100 From: Goran Janicijevic Subject: Fripp 2 Sinatra Dan Cooper wrote: >Robert Fripp to Frank Sinatra. Sinatra - Bono - Eno - Fripp. Small is the world and smaller is the world of entertainment business. So I suggest to stop the bandwidth waste with these relations. Toby, your opinion? -- Goran ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 23:14:36 +0100 From: Goran Janicijevic Subject: Re: Move on, etc. Randall dot Hammill at hartfordlife dot com wrote: >If you don't like that particular path, don't take it. and >If KC is reading this I'd just like to say that I do love the new material. Randall, if you didn't like the new material, would you move on, or would you protest? -- Goran ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #785 ********************************