Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #783 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 783 Saturday, 9 December 2000 Today's Topics: CC#12 / Six degrees (or less) Sakamoto/Sylvian's Heartbeat Kathie Lee to Fripp Track 19 Is No Mincer Gentile Giant Re: How Many Degrees of Separation Fripp to Sinatra in three steps Re: Double Duo, Bill Bruford, etc. The most direct route from Fripp to Donovan Re: six degrees Gentle Giant Sinatra Solutions Why Indeed? Sinatra and Fripp DGM Collector's Club ... where are my cds? Re: RF to Frank Simatra Sinatra to Fripp in 4... Re: Son of "Another six degrees" Fripp To Sinatra Degrees To Fripp four degrees 6 degrees of Sinatra and Fripp Fripp to Donovan: Six degrees in less Re : KC to Donovan ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:06:56 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: CC#12 / Six degrees (or less) >What is going on with Hyde Park ? Copyrights? It's from a >bootleg isn't it? Or are the Satanic Majesties themselves (greedy buggers) >involved in some manner? Robert wrote in his diary some months ago that one of the members of the original KC was opposed to this release. Robert wished he would express his concerns in the guestbook. This did not happen and the member remains anonymous; however, as Ian and Mike both contributed liner notes, the anonymous member in question should be either Peter Sinfield, or more probably Greg Lake/his agent. Toby, could we suggest the answers to the six degrees puzzles are made by private e-mail? Or somebody will have to explain me the interest of this game (?). ___ Laurent Masse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:35:47 -0000 From: Nick & Sue Cook Subject: Sakamoto/Sylvian's Heartbeat Can't seem to find an answer to this one - does anyone know if Mr. Fripp played the solo on this track - sounds rather like him... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 09:48:16 -0600 From: Bob Kelley Subject: Kathie Lee to Fripp How about Kathie Lee to Robert Fripp? Just kidding! I don't know, and I don't want to know. Unfortunately, too easy. 1) Bruford appeared on Regis and Kathie Lee in '93 with Steve Howe. 2) Well, you know the rest. bk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:51:50 -0500 From: Dave Lane Subject: Track 19 Is No Mincer Bassdude007 at aol dot com wrote regarding the problem with CC13, track19: >Nothing defective in the CD at all... simply great ALTERNATE time music, a >nice mixdown, quality producing by Fripp and Singleton, Digital HELL from >Pat.... > >Track #19 is The way it's supposed to be.... Tony's jam Rocks! > >Remember the niceness of the tape runout at the end of "The Mincer".... This is nothing like that at all. It sounds like what you'd get with a dirty or scratched CD, or one with a manufacturing defect. Others have even reported that their copy even skips to another track when they play that track at one of the same places where I just hear all kinds of digital nastiness. Odd time sigs, tape runouts, various clicks, buzzes & pops from the studio I could handle. This is just bad data. --Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:26:38 -0500 From: "Brian O'Connell" Subject: Gentile Giant As long as the topic is up, I have to throw in a plug for Gentile Giant. [ I think he means *Gentle* Giant :-) -- Toby ] These guys are the unsung heroes of their era. If you haven't heard them, get Playing the Fool (the "official live" album). They combined medieval, rock, polyphonic, polyrhythmic, multi-instrumental virtuosity, general weirdness, etc into an intoxicating brew. Not for the faint of heart (how many faint of hearts are on this list anyway). They may take a few listens to get used to at first, but if you can get into these guys, the rewards are endless. The site: http://www.blazemonger.com/GG/ I suppose that you could be describe them as Jethro Tull meets Zappa. But to be truthful, they were utterly unique. Thank God that there was a time when bands like this could actually prosper (somewhat). Music like this would never fly in this day and age. -Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:53:41 -0500 From: Dan Cooper Subject: Re: How Many Degrees of Separation IN ET #782 Josh Chasin wrote: "I can get from any artist to any other artist in two degrees. Example: Robert Fripp and Placido Domingo. I have heard of Fripp. I have also heard of Domingo. See? It's easy!" BRAVO! Play the game correctly people! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 11:55:13 -0500 From: Geordie Robertson Subject: Fripp to Sinatra in three steps Fripp to Sinatra? O.K. - 1. Fripp played with Eno 2. Eno played with U2 3. Bono sang with Frank. There you go. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 12:46:14 -0500 From: Randall dot Hammill at hartfordlife dot com Subject: Re: Double Duo, Bill Bruford, etc. I may regret getting involved in this... Adrian Cagnani wrote (among other things...) I'm sorry, but a musician, at least a good one, would never say that. *and* I never said Pat was a bad drummer. But Bill is some levels up. Ask your very talented drummer. If he's very talented, I'm sure he agrees. This to me sounds like a very arrogant statement. I'm sure that is not what he intended, but... I am a musician, whether I am a good musician is a subjective debate. Trying to compare Pat to Bill (or Trey to Tony or anybody else for that matter) to determine who is the better drummer (bassist, etc) is pretty useless. What is your criteria? What is a good musician? Is Brian Eno a good musician? He's not particularly adept a playing any particular instrument, but I think he's a very good musician. To indicate that somebody couldn't possibly be a good musician if they think the band sounds great without Bill and Tony IS very presumptive. It seems to me that Adrian Belew and Robert Fripp feel pretty strongly that Trey and Pat are exactly what this band needs. Are you implying that they are not good musicians? I once saw Robert refer to good music as something that makes him want to pick up his guitar and play. Since not everybody plays guitar, you could expand this to say that it makes you want to play your instrument, or sing, or dance, or whatever. Based on that definition, I would say a good musician as a person who is able to let good music come out. That is, he doesn't get in the way of the music. Pat and Trey do a fantastic job in the Double Duo doing just that. Could Bill or Tony do the same thing? Probably. But maybe they would get in the way. Pat lays down some great grooves, something that I am not sure Bill can do. I honestly don't know if he can, but I do know that he typically does not play that style. As a result, the music would be changed, which may not be what the music requires. Bill played the part of "second drummer" on Yes' Union tour, and from what I have read he does not seem to think it was a good decision. He had to try to work around Alan White and said that Alan fills the space already, implying that if he simply played more, it would not add to the music. He had a similar situation in Genesis, where the parts are largely worked into the structure of the music itself. Changing or adding something does not neccessarily improve the music. So it is quite possible (perhaps even likely, since the music that they were proposing at the last rehearsal didn't speak to him) that Bill would not make this music better. I can give you an example (paraphrased). Harrison Ford, early in his career was criticized for a part he played (I think he played a waiter). The critic said something to the effect that he had no presence, that he didn't get a feel for Harrison Ford. Harrison replied by saying that he wasn't supposed to, he was supposed to see the waiter. As an end note: I really enjoy TCoL, I have since it came out. I loved the performances that I was able to attend. I also loved the Trey Gunn Band, the Tony Levin, Bill's Earthworks and Robert's soundscapes shows. To me, each of the performances really showed how each of these musicians can contribute to great music. I want to make it known to all of those involved with Crimson that I look forward to whatever new proje(K)cts - Crimson or otherwise - that you are involved in. To Pat and Trey specifically (although this could be Adrian several years ago, etc.) usually only the complaints are voiced. I believe the majority of the fans really like what they hear, but most people don't take the time to write up something positive. So, Thanks, and keep it coming! Randy Hammill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:52:44 -0600 From: "Pomeroy, Marjorie" Subject: The most direct route from Fripp to Donovan Everyone had an answer, but the one you all missed is the most direct route: Fripp played with Ian Wallace who was married to Jennie Boyd who is the Jennifer Juniper of the song written by Donovan. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:32:10 -0800 From: Mitch Goldman Subject: Re: six degrees > the other one is : donavan sang on alice coopers billion dollar babies > album bob ezrin produced that album-steve hunter and dick wagner also > played guitar all three were involved on peter gabriels first > solo album > fripp played on that album as well > No..Dick and Steve didn't play on Billion $ Babies...the first Coop lp they play on is Welcome to My Nightmare in 75 (They were still with Lou Reed in 73). But the spirit is correct, since Ezrin produced the first Gabrial lp...you can draw a line from Donavan to Coop to Bob Ezrin to Gabriel to Fripp. MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 16:36:21 -0500 From: Gamantyo Hendrantoro Subject: Gentle Giant > From: Kirk Tuminaro > Subject: Gentle Giant > I just wanted to clarify, though, for the curious that not only > is In A Glass House available on CD (I've had my import copy since about > 1994!!), but all their other official releases are as well. I guess the original poster wanted to imply that the original CD version of "In a Glass House" had been OOP for quite a long while. What he meant to tell you is that the album has been remastered and back in print on CD, with two bonus live tracks. Cheers, Gamantyo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:47:02 -0500 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Sinatra Solutions >>>>>Here's one to challenge the old noggin: Robert Fripp to Frank Sinatra.>>>>> Easy. Fripp > Eno > Daniel Lanois > Aaron Neville > Linda Ronstadt > Nelson Riddle > Sinatra. Actually, I was just showing off by using all six degrees. It can obviously be done in two degrees. Fripp's Mum fancied Sinatra. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:52:12 -0500 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Why Indeed? In ET 782, masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) asks: >>>>>Why such disproportionate answers from the audience to what is basically the same problem: a physical impossibility from the players to go through the whole set due to internal (Adrian's sore throat) or external (Robert's flash aggression) factors.>>>>> I suspect the answer is, only one of these two situations strikes the audient as offensive. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 16:57:30 -0500 From: "Michael Dr. Kovacs" Subject: Sinatra and Fripp This is also easy: Sinatra-Celine Dion - Peter Sinfield - Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 15:56:55 -0600 From: Lewis W Beard Subject: DGM Collector's Club ... where are my cds? All, Can someone who is a DGM club member tell me where I need to go on the DGM page to show the released and upcoming cd's? I joined in july, just a little late to get that one. So, I requested manually of the american club arm to get the Roar of P4 one, and I did. But I didnt get one in September that I remember, and I didnt get one in November, and I am concerned as to what has happened to my membership. But before I email them, I was hoping someone could give me a link to the page. I want to manually check what is going on and make sure the schedule is as I expected. Feel free to email me directly at lewis at lwb dot org in order to avoid filling up ET if you like. I just find something about the DGM pages and catalog to be unfathomable. Something about the navigation. Every time I go to look at it, the next thing I know, it is the next day and the alarm is going off. :) Lewis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:10:01 -0500 From: Warren Melnick Subject: Re: RF to Frank Simatra Unfortunately I am about to get onto a plane to Texas so I have to do this fast, but going backwards, fripp to bowie (Heroes) to Bing Crosby (Drummer Boy) and there has to be something that Crosby and Sinatra did together! ---------------- Warren Melnick Director of Research and Development Astata Corporation ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:20:14 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Hartley Subject: Sinatra to Fripp in 4... Dan Cooper said >Here's one to challenge the old noggin: Robert Fripp to Frank Sinatra. Sinatra appeared on a TV special with Elvis Presley in 1960. Elvis used Larrie Londin as a drummer for years, and he also played on Ade's Twang Bar King album, and the Ade/Fripp connection is obvious. Heck, I needed more steps for Bacharach! ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh at brainiac dot com 12 Emma G Lane, Narragansett, RI 02882 - vox 401.782.9042 Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:21:03 -0600 From: James A Hogard Subject: Re: Son of "Another six degrees" > O.K., the Fripp to Donovan was embarassingly easy. Try this one: >Fripp to Honeymoon Suite in four steps. HS keyboardist Ray Coburn played on Corey Hart's _Young Man Running_ with Mel Collins. > Here's one to challenge the old noggin: Robert Fripp to Frank Sinatra. Frank Sinatra sang with Tommy Dorsey's orchestra. Buddy Rich played for Dorsey, and later hired (and fired) Tony Levin. One get almost anywhere from Fripp (I'm still stumped on a Shaggs link...). -Hogard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:33:11 EST From: ChalkPie88 at aol dot com Subject: Fripp To Sinatra This one is super easy. Sinatra played with Count Basie who used the note Ab in a concert from San Francisco in 1952. Debussy also used the same Ab note in his piano piece "En blanc et noir" (for two pianos). Fripp used the same Ab note in "Hindu Fizz" in ProjeKct Four. Anybody who doesn't believe me can look this up for themselves. Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 17:55:09 -0400 From: Will Blouin Subject: Degrees To Fripp Here's One: Steve Martin(the actor) to Fripp... Any takers? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 18:18:46 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: four degrees Donovan->Jimmy Page Page->Chris Squire (XYZ) Squire->Bruford Bruford->Fripp -S. "Who else has kill filed me? Laura in Space I know has, but who else? Just wondering." -- foultongue at home dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:17:38 -0500 From: "ccoulterwsc" Subject: 6 degrees of Sinatra and Fripp From ET#782 "Here's one to challenge the old noggin: Robert Fripp to Frank Sinatra". Okay... Frank Sinatra>George Harrison>John Lennon>David Bowie>Robert Fripp Relation: Sang "Something">Wrote "Something">In the Beatles>Co-wrote "Fame">Played on "Scary Monsters", etc. I think that counts as four? - Christian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:36:03 -0800 From: "Mike Tiano" Subject: Fripp to Donovan: Six degrees in less Too easy: Fripp to Jon Anderson, who sang on LIZARDS Jon Anderson to Donovan, who opened for Yes on their GOING FOR THE ONE tour How's that? Mike Tiano Notes From the Edge http://nfte.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:48:45 +0100 From: "Pierre SIGALAS" Subject: Re : KC to Donovan Cozy Powell played with Donovan ... ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #783 ********************************