Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #781 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 781 Wednesday, 6 December 2000 Today's Topics: Encores Gentle Giant Nashville CD - track 19 problems Fripp to Donovan Six degrees of Robert Fripp website Fripp to Donovan Re: Bacharach/KC ET post response Donovan to Fripp centipede Re: Another 6 degrees Re: pat's strange device Trey Gunn West Coast Tour 2001 KC tour 2001 Fripp to Donovan Nashville via Amsterdam & London Fripp To Donavan Crimson to Donovan:Four steps (I think). pitched Collectors Club Frustrations Re: Dark? Ade and Pat playing Roland HPD-15 "HandSonic" Toyah/Fripp pictures Lennon/Levin ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:54:24 -0500 From: "Brown, Ken" Subject: Encores Andrew Studer brings up some points on Encores: >>I always thought that the point of an encore was that it was a "gift" from the musicians- not part of the original "contract of performance" if you like- to celebrate a show which had that extra magical something.<< As you stated in your first paragraph they are expected. Right or wrong that is the way it is now at Rock shows. I saw New Order back in the mid-80s, their first time in NYC. I knew they played 12-13 songs with no encores. Well that they did, but most of the crowd didn't know this was their style so nobody left. After a few minutes the band came out and played another song, rather annoyed at the audience, finished threw their instruments down and left. The next time I saw them, they played 12 songs went off stage and came back for one more song. They still played the same amount of songs, but they adjusted their behavior to met the audience expectations. With the current Crim show it seems the encores are also built in to the show. They seem to be the same songs done in the same order. If they didn't expect to do an encore I would expect the solo Belew piece and the Px piece to be part of the show proper. I do agree with you that it does take some of the magic of what an encore is suppose to be away, but we no longer live in those innocent times. The Andrew says: >> As far as I'm aware from the reviews I've read, KC has always played a full set- and therefore fulfilled its contract with the audience. If the action of one person in the audience destroys the mood of the musicians, then surely the rest of the audience can't complain too much if the band is not inclined to give them something for nothing.<< So they have a contract now to play for so long? And who decided what is a full set? Like I said it seems to me that some of the encores are part of the show. I still can't excuse Fripp's behavior. I made a conscious decision not to see Crim on this tour because I was so paranoid that Fripp would stomp off stage cuz somebody dared take picture. I still don't see how people can forgive such boorish behavior on the part of Fripp. Am I on the side of the person or persons who commit the act to piss Fripp of. No, of course not, granted they are uncaring buffoons since they can not follow simple directions or simply selfish clots who feel that what they want is more important then anything else. But that is no excuse for Fripp to punish the rest of the audience. Two wrongs to not make a right! What really struck me though about his behavior at the last shows was it seems to be the only time it occurred on this swing of the tour. In many of the reviews people mentioned seeing some flash bulbs with little to no reaction from Fripp. Why for the last shows of the tour he decided to revert back to this boorish behavior is strange. Also if he feels that way, maybe the rest of the band should to a number without him! After doesn't he always say Crim could carry on without him? Keep the Faith (in the Music) ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 16:05:48 EST From: ChalkPie88 at aol dot com Subject: Gentle Giant Fellow ET'ers: Just would like to pass the word that "In a Glass House" by Gentle Giant was just finally released on CD!! In case some of you thought that there were no more amazing albums left to buy from the early 70's british prog era, HERE IS ANOTHER!!!! Really amazing album - info. at www.blazemonger.com/GG/ Fans of Crimson should really dig this one. Frank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:20:00 -0500 From: Dave Lane Subject: Nashville CD - track 19 problems In ET-779, two ETers complain that CCvol13 track 19 appears defective. I have these problems as well. Does anyone *not* have these problems with their copy? There is no defect visible on the surface of the disc as far as I can tell. Could it be on the master, I wonder? I sent e-mail to DGM asking about getting a replacement, but have not received an answer yet--it's only been a day since I sent it, though. Does anyone know of DGM's defective returns policy? Aside from the defect, this is one of my favorite CC volumes so far--just the sort of thing I was hoping for when I signed up. --Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:31:00 -0500 From: Michael dot Russell at mercerdelta dot com Subject: Fripp to Donovan Aside from Crimson playing Bearings with an appreciative Donovan in the audience . . . I recall seeing Donovan open for Yes during the Going For The One tour in '77; Billy B. 'twas in Yes earlier and Crimso later with Robert. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:40:29 -0500 (EST) From: Jim McCabe Subject: Six degrees of Robert Fripp website Oddly enough there's a "Six Degrees of Robert Fripp" website, although it hasn't been updated in a long time. Try: http://www.indiscipline.net/fripp/ -- Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 09:41:28 +1100 From: "Chris Norton" Subject: Fripp to Donovan Here's an unusual route: Donovan played at "The Secret Policeman's Other Ball" with members of Monty Python. Monty Python's sketch "Sheep" is sampled on (I think) Haaden 2 on Fripp's album Exposure - a snatch of someone saying "As we know, a sheep is not a creature of the air" is played backwards. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 16:55:48 -0600 From: Jordan Subject: Re: Bacharach/KC Or, there's: 1) Bacarach with Elvis Costello, 2) Pete Thomas played drums in the Attractions, 3) Pete Thomas played drums on John Paul Jones' so album along with Trey Gunn 4) Trey Gunn is in KC, naturally. Jordan http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~jordancohen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:51:53 -0800 From: "Fazio, Lou" Subject: ET post response Greetings all. Regarding Geordie Robinson's post in ET #780: The last six degrees of seperation seemed a little too easy... This one may be easy too. How about from Fripp to Donovan in six steps or less?" 1) Fripp/KC are on (and run) DGM records 2) DGM records issued John Paul Jones' album Zooma 3) Paul Leary (of the mighty Butthole Surfers) plays guitar on one track on JPJ's album 4) John Paul Jones produced the Butthole's album 'Independent Worm Saloon' 5) The Buttholes covered Donovan's 'Hurdy Gurdy Man' on their album 'Pioughd' Cheers! LF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 15:15:26 -0800 From: Tom Martin Subject: Donovan to Fripp Donovan to Jimmy Page (He played on Hurdy Gurdy Man) Jimmy Page to Paul Rogers (They were both in The Firm) Paul Rogers to Boz Burrell (They were both in Bad Company) Boz Burrell to Robert Fripp (They were both in King Crimson) Too easy! Did that one off the top of my head. How about Kathie Lee to Robert Fripp? Just kidding! I don't know, and I don't want to know. ------------- Thomas W. Martin Marketing Manager PLX Technology 390 Potrero Avenue Sunnyvale, CA 94086 Phone: 408-328-3592 Mobile: 408-621-2322 tmartin at plxtech dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:21:34 EST From: Roosterbrawl at aol dot com Subject: centipede I see some of you have talked about "Centipede," the Crim-related band produced by Fripp and has a shitload of players on it, including KC horn players. Can someone tell me about it? Is it available in stores or special order? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:32:18 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Hartley Subject: Re: Another 6 degrees Geordie Robertson asked: > The last six degrees of seperation seemed a little too easy... This > one may be easy too. How about from Fripp to Donovan in six steps or > less? Donovan recorded "Goo Goo Barabajagal (Love Is Hot)" with the Jeff Beck Group in '69. Beck played with Cozy Powell in '71. Powell played with Greg lake in Emerson, Lake and Powell, and Greg Lake was in King Crimson with Fripp. That's 4, I believe. ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh at brainiac dot com 12 Emma G Lane, Narragansett, RI 02882 - vox 401.782.9042 Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 23:39:26 -0000 From: "Matt Nolan" Subject: Re: pat's strange device >>Pat had this >>rather large silvered colored disk object sort of mushroom shaped to his >>left that as far as I could tell was covered in small white knobs. Looked >>like a space ship to me. Any clues what it is? > >I think it may be a Korg Wave drum. this is a electronic percussion device >that can be played with hands. It is also mushroom shaped so maybe we have >a match! Could be. Sounds like his Latronic Notron sequencer to me though. One of the original "toilet seat" shaped ones - they appear to be in production in a rather more sedate rectangle / trapezoid these days. Supposedly a very flexible step-sequencer / manipulator thing, great for the live e-musician. I could be wrong... Regards, Matt Nolan. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 15:58:40 -0800 From: "btpmsi" Subject: Trey Gunn West Coast Tour 2001 Hey all, I'm getting excited about the propect of a new TG tour for 2001. Does any one have any details yet about where and when they're going to perform? Cheers, Brian Perkins West Linn, OR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 16:03:49 -0800 From: "btpmsi" Subject: KC tour 2001 Hey all again, Trey says in his Diary that KC will be back in action in April 2001!!! Anyone have any info. on this yet?? I AM encouraged by Mr Fripp's specific reference to Vancouver, B.C., Seattle and Portland as being likely targets in the "secondary market" for a second tour of the states, but would appreciate any word you all might have heard. Cheers, (Again) Brian Perkins West Linn, OR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 19:15:27 -0500 From: Ted White Subject: Fripp to Donovan In ET #780, Geordie Robertson sez: "The last six degrees of seperation seemed a little too easy... This one may be easy too. How about from Fripp to Donovan in six steps or less?" Less. The original KC performed Donovan's "Get Thy Bearings" -- which he personally presented to the group to play. That's *one* step. --TW (Dr P) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 16:36:00 -0800 From: Robert Cervero Subject: Nashville via Amsterdam & London For those who were at the London Night Watch Listening Party in London (September 1997), you'll recall that Dave Singleton played about 4 minutes of materials from the Nashville sessions of May 1997. I recall being mesmerized by what I heard: a jazzy, mysterious melody, aka a soundtrack laid out for a 007 flick; a funkadelic, polyrythmic groove; and a dark, broody omni-soundscape that harkened back to the era of the lads who were in our very presence at the time, the '73 band. With the release of KCCC #13, we find that the three tunes played at the Listening Party were, respectively, "Jimmy Bond"; "JB in 7"; and "Tony's Jam". In the review of the Listening Party I posted on ET three years ago, I wrote: "The four minutes of new stuff left me awestruck. I just hope that Fripp and company put out a 'taster' as soon as possible." It took 39 months to get the taster out, but beggars can't be choosers. IMO, it would have been nice if these three cuts would have made it onto TCOL, though as we now know, the double-duo opted to "move on" along a different pathway. My recommendation for a future KCCC release: the recent October 21 show at the Fillmore, a show the band-members felt (according to their diary posts) was one of their best. Hearing Adrian's smooth, smoky-barroom rendition of "I Left My Heart in San Francisco", a cappella, would itself be worth another year's membership in the Collector's Club. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 19:46:36 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Fripp To Donavan Discounting the embarassingly easy King Crimson performed Donovan's "Get Thy Bearings", Take whatever route you like to Led Zeppelin. Trey Gunn to John Paul Jones to Jimmy Page to lots of session work with Donavan. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 01:27:43 +0000 From: John Peacock Subject: Crimson to Donovan:Four steps (I think). > Geordie Robertson said: > > > How about from Fripp to Donovan in six steps or less? Peasy: Fripp to Bruford to Steve Howe to Neil out of the Young Ones who covered My White Bicycle (song by Tomorrow, the band Howe was in before Yes) and also Hurdy Gurdy Man by Donovan If you have no idea who the Young Ones were (just to prove I'm not making that bit up): http://www.landfield.com/ftp/faqs/tv/british-comedy/young-ones/part1 Groovy, John -- In the spirit of shameless self promotion, my songs may be found at: http://www.mp3.com/peacock ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:25:03 -0500 From: "T.J. Mathews" Subject: pitched >Steve Smith wrote: Is it me, or is this in danger of becoming a bit >"Rocky Horror"? Good thing they've retired "Neal and Jack and Me," >or folks might start waiting for their cue to pelt Adrian with apples and >spaghetti the way Barenaked Ladies fans throw boxes of Kraft Macaroni >and Cheese at the stage during "If I Had $1,000,000"... ;-) I threw a boxed shower cap (from my hotel) to Adrian at the first Philly show. Trey asked what it was and so did Pat and then Robert. He offered it to Robert and he declined. He then threw it back into the audience where it bounced off a few people and ended up back with me and returned to it's home in my right front pocket. They like treats if offered peacefully. tj, dc-et2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 22:56:31 -0500 From: "John Spokus" Subject: Collectors Club Frustrations I was wondering when Collectors Club members were going to sound off about the recent goings on and I've finally seen some activity in the last few newsletters; so I figured I'd get my two cents in also. I thought maybe I had missed something; I must admit I haven't been reading ET as often, or always in it's entirety as I used to (very busy in two musical projects myself). I usually manage to at least scan the topics every week or so. While I tend to favor older Crimson for the most part, I was pleased with Nashville Rehearsals, which I must admit I wasn't really looking forward to. What is going on with Hyde Park ? Copyrights? It's from a bootleg isn't it? Or are the Satanic Majesties themselves (greedy buggers) involved in some manner? It took until late November to get October's release. Does this mean we have to wait until January for December's release ? I understand it's Plymouth Guild Hall '71. Yes I have the boot, great set, not so great sound. I pray they've found a better tape because only a miracle from a mastering god could make the tape I know suitable for a legitamate release. I did hear of someone remastering Plymouth (the boot)and making it sound somewhat better, which is what I'm imagining we'll get. John Spokus Baltimore, MD USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 01:20:09 -0400 From: Manuel Fernandez Subject: Re: Dark? Timothy W Cox wrote: > How true!! It is absolutely impossible for Belew to be dark. Maybe sad, >contemplative, or dreamy, but certainly not dark (these are fine I agree 100% with this. Belew's upbeat, easygoing, fun-loving personality, especially when doing vocals, doesn't give easily to the "gloom and doom" feeling of vintage Crimson, but I like to see that as a refreshing thing. And the band can get darker than hell when they want to; "thrak" comes to mind. I've scared passengers in my car with that piece. They think I must be satanic or something (they're used to hearing merengue and radio love ballads, naw THAT's the devil's music, if you ask me!) Wonder what they'd think If I played them the beginning of the song "Cirkus"... ;-) Then you write: >the 70's band so beautifully powerful. It is a shame that a piece like >"thrush" suffers from its processed sound because it has the potential of >crossing into the darkness. If D. Cross had played Trey's solo on the >violin or Fripp through an amp it would be a more strikingly beautiful >piece than it already is (Trey does a nice job though). I think all this >technology has negatively impacted all of the new crimson material. Don't >get me wrong, if the technology can produce a full, powerful, and natural >sound then use it (e.g... mellotron), but v-drums and Fripp running the And you might be wrong. You and me, probably being of older generations (I'm 30), we're accustomed to the "natural" sounds of drums, bass and traditional guitar distortion (even Fripp's insane vintage tone sounds traditional today); that is, the traditional "analog" rock instrumentation. Today's kids are growing up with the heavily processed digital sounds of Limp bizkit, Nine inch nails, Marilyn manson, and all that techno stuff, and won't have it any other way. They probably think that the analog rock sound is weak, stale, or whatever they think it is; probaly "old people stuff". I see that happening with the kids that were growing up at the height of Nirvana and the whole Alternative thing, and even more with the Guns N'Roses and Metallica era. They can't stand the new stuff ("it's not real metal" and it's "cold sounding", etc.) and today's kids see them as "old people" already. To them, TCOL's sound, as well as the sound of their heroes might be the only and true sound of rock, beatiful, ugly, warm, heavy, dark or whatever. I must say I also think that, production-wise, TCOL sounds MP3-ized; but it's in a different league than vintage Crimson, or even Thrak-era Crimson. And there's a lot of beauty on songs like the title track, construction of light. We just have to see/hear it with different ears that those accustomed to the classic voicings. Ah well, I'm sleepy. Wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't make any sense. Manuel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 01:05:52 -0500 From: "Tom X. Chao" Subject: Ade and Pat playing Roland HPD-15 "HandSonic" I believe Ade and Pat are both playing the Roland HPD-15, the "HandSonic," which is similar to the SPD-20 but has 15 different zones and is meant to be played with hands, not sticks. At first I thought Ade and Pat were playing the Roland SPD-20, which thrilled me because I own one. But after a few seconds I realized that the device was not the right shape. The giveaway is the infra-red controller that Ade manipulated by waving his hand over the beam. I went to Sam Ash to check one out in the store and fell in love with it immediately. I do not know where to get the $995 to purchase one, however. (And don't suggest earning it by working, you zany jokesters!) Tom X. Chao ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 01:22:16 -0400 From: Manuel Fernandez Subject: Toyah/Fripp pictures Looking at the wonderful pics of Fripp, Toyah and the late Beaton the wonder bun (loved the one in the tub) I feel great relief. At last!, documented evidence of the feasibility of one of the most difficult feats for the male human being, something we thought previously to be impossible, utopic, mutually exclusive, forbidden by all the laws of nature: Being a prog-rocker AND picking up knockout babes. Manuel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 06:54:31 From: "Dan Ceo" Subject: Lennon/Levin I don't know if anyone else saw this, but the other day, on VH1's "Behind the Music," they were playing an episode about John Lennon's last days. Tony Levin appeared from a recent interview and was very inciteful about his experience on "Double Fantasy." I believe his comment on what Lennon said to him when they met went something like, "'I hear you're good. Just don't play too many notes.'" I also liked when Tony said that what struck him was the "completeness" of John's songs; that Lennon could have released just his demos and they would have made a good album. Dan ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #781 ********************************