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               E L E P H A N T    T A L K

        The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp
              and King Crimson enthusiasts

                        Number 780

                 Tuesday, 5 December 2000

Today's Topics:

   Another six degrees
   pat's strange device
   And The Future...?
   Bacharach/KC
   KCCC #12 delayed KCCC #13 arrives
   WNYC broadcast of Soundscapes
   Double Duo
   Move on, etc.
   sports quotation that a certain venal leader might like
   Dark?
   Best? Crimson-related album=centipede
   art cohen's review ET#776
   New Crim, Dark Crim?
   Absolute Zero
   Toyah
   Add-on Toyah post
   Re: Recording streams
   The Fourth Coming Of Saint William Of Bruford

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------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A ---------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:34:19 -0500
From: Geordie Robertson <asecondglance at sympatico dot ca>
Subject: Another six degrees

  The last six degrees of seperation seemed a little too easy...  This
one may be easy too.  How about from Fripp to Donovan in six steps or
less?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 15:07:33
From: "Matt D" <dibes at hotmail dot com>
Subject: pat's strange device

>Pat had this
>rather large silvered colored disk object sort of mushroom shaped to his
>left that as far as I could tell was covered in small white knobs.  Looked
>like a space ship to me.  Any clues what it is?

I think it may be a Korg Wave drum.  this is a electronic percussion device
that can be played with hands.  It is also mushroom shaped so maybe we have
a match!

***********************************************************
Matt Deibert

Check out Spacestation Integration MP3's
www.mp3.com/SSI
***********************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:12:56 +0100
From: Gnad Markus <MGnad at rundschau dot co dot at>
Subject: And The Future...?

So now Hi All,
now that the main tours are done and the main TCOL-related releases
are out, what will happen? Has anybody read something in between
the lines of some diaries what will be next Crim step (not solo, I mean) -
besides Argentinian tour, eventually?

Markus

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 10:09:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Chelsea Snelgrove <chsnelgrove at yahoo dot com>
Subject: Bacharach/KC

Hello All,

     Thanks to everyone who replied to my "6 degrees of separation" puzzle.
I'm surprised that there were SO MANY different ways of tracing this link,
but so far no one else has come up the the one I had in mind, which is: (1)
Burt Bacharach collaborated with Elvis Costello on "Painted from Memory"
(as most respondents noted).  (2) Bruce Thomas is/was a member of
Costello's backing band, the Attractions.  (3) Bruce Thomas played
occasionally in the late '60's with a band called Bodast.  (4) The guitar
player for Bodast was Steve Howe.  (5) Howe, of course, later played in Yes
with Bruford, and hence, (6) the link to KC.

                           Cheers,

                           Chelsea

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 13:43:29 -0600
From: Bob Ramstad <rramstad at alum dot mit dot edu>
Subject: KCCC #12 delayed KCCC #13 arrives

This may end up being information already sent in, if so, please delete,
thanks Toby.  I haven't seen anything on this, but I'm not the closest
reader of ET in the galaxy.

I received KCCC #13 (that's not a typo) earlier today here in Seattle,
along with this note:

Dear Club Member:

Club #12 (Hyde Park 1969) is currently on hold as we work to resolve a
pending copyright issue.  In the meantime, we are sending out Club #13
(Nashville Rehearsals 1997).

<deleted following details surrounding the fact that I only had one release
left on my membership, and so if I really wanted #12 only, how to proceed
now that I have a copy of #13 instead, and a reminder that my membership is
now over unless I submit more funds>

The postmark is November 29, 2000 from Los Angeles CA.

-- Bob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:56:19 -0500
From: Warren Melnick <warren dot melnick at astata dot com>
Subject: WNYC broadcast of Soundscapes

WNYC, as promised, played some (about 18 minutes of) soundscapes on the New
Sounds show last Wednesday night.  Here are the links:

Playlist: (Web)
http://www.wnyc.org/new/music/newsounds/playlists/ns1856.html

Listen: (RealPlayer)
rtsp://bonobo.realimpact.net/realimpact/wnyc/rans/ns1856.ra
or
pnm://bonobo.realimpact.net/realimpact/wnyc/rans/ns1856.ra
A quick fast-forward to 41 minutes into the show will get you to the
soundscape.

----------------
Warren Melnick
Director of Research and Development
Astata Corporation

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:20:57 -0500
From: "top jimmy" <jimmyvette at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Double Duo

>"Pat has really stepped up to the plate. I don't understand why everybody
> is on a "bring back Bill kick"."

I'm sorry you don't. Maybe if you happen to be a drummer, or a musician...
Nothing against Pat, he is good, but Bill... He is not HUMAN! Nothing he
plays is less than absolutely brilliant. Precision, punch, criativity,
melody, dynamics, sense of time, etc., etc., etc.<

I don't think you should assume that because I think Pat did a great job
and the band did not miss a beat live without Bill and Tony that does not
make me a musician or a drummer. You should not make a statement without
knowing the first thing thing about the Crim fan you have never met. I
happen to think Bill and Tony are both amazing, but they are not in this
current lineup and I do not feel it is fair to slag the double duo or take
a cheap shot at me...If you don't like TCOL, listen to the back catalog and
keep your fingers crossed that the double trio will be back in action next
year.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:43:50 -0500
From: Randall dot Hammill at hartfordlife dot com
Subject: Move on, etc.

In regards to the various posts on "Move on." There is another option to
the two that are generally presented ("move on," and , "I'm not moving on,
I don't like what I hear and I'm going to tell you about it.") - change.
There are countless ways in which it has been stated, but the general
principle I see here (as a fan) is - If you don't like something, change
it. If you can't change it, then change the way you think about it. In this
case, as I see it, I can't change Robert, so I will have to change myself.

This is almost inevitable anyway, as time passes people, and the way they
perceive things, change. Something new and unexpected grows on you, or
something fresh and exciting and overplayed grows annoying. There are far
too many examples to list here, but I think that Robert prefers to work in
an enlightened and reciprical relationship with the audience. This means
that at least some of the responsibility for the music is assumed by the
listener. This is really the case anyway, what one person calls music
another may call noise, the deciding factor being the perception of the
listener. There are a lot of CDs that I originally had trouble getting
into, only to find later that I really enjoy them. In fact, my memory of
the music is often vastly different than the actuality, especially if I
have not listened to it in a while. The CD didn't change, but my perception
did. I often think that it has a lot to do with hearing other music, which
lends a familiarity to the dialect used in another piece of music.

As far as Robert being disrespectful, my perception is different as well. I
see somebody who has made an enormous amount if information and music
available, through his diary, interviews throughout the years, the
Collector's Club and other releases. He has gone to great lengths to make
available an explanation for what he does and why he does it and is simply
saying that if you don't agree with what he is doing, then don't
participate. If you'd like, you can view him as a sort of musical mentor
who is helping others to find their way down a particular muscial path. He
is not leading, but rather giving guidance to those who wish to travel that
particular path. But ultimately, it is up to you to find your way. He can't
do it for you, but he can help. If you don't like that particular path,
don't take it. Your paths may cross in the future. Then again, they may
not. Robert has already decided to move on, and he has chosen to act on
that decision rather than hang out and debate about it.  A lot of people
seem to have a lot of passion about this particular band. That's a great
thing, just figure out where to apply that and great things can happen.

If KC is reading this I'd just like to say that I do love the new material.
ConstruKction of Light was a great new sound with lots of references and
familiar phrases to move forward but acknowledge the past. The shows I saw
were my favorite Crim shows to date, especially the improvs. At the
Hartford show it seemed to me that Pat (Beast, beast indeed!) was really
leading the band and its direction, especially in the improvs, whereas at
the second Berklee show it seemed that Adrian was in charge. I can't wait
to see what the next step it, whether is is Crim or not from all of you.
Thanks!

Also, I'd have to say that Pierre Sigalas has the best answer to the Burt
Bacharach question that I've seen yet. Great job!

Randy Hammill

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:56:18 -0600
From: "Chip Orr" <ORRC at haynesboone dot com>
Subject: sports quotation that a certain venal leader might like

Norv Turner, recently fired as the head football coach of the Washington
Redskins, had this to say: "We all know at some point you're going to move
on.  It's time for me to move on."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 20:55:58 -0500
From: "Timothy W Cox" <timothy dot w dot cox at gte dot net>
Subject: Dark?

Grant Colburn wrote:

>There's NO way that the later 90's to present Crimson is somehow "darker"
than earlier Crimson. The 70's crimson for me is the darkest Crimson,
lyrically, sonically and otherwise. Evil mellotrons, distorted bass,
distorted guitar, violin and Fender Rhodes piano. The lyrics from the 70's
are downright depressing compared to Belew's.<

    How true!! It is absolutely impossible for Belew to be dark. Maybe sad,
contemplative, or dreamy, but certainly not dark (these are fine
compliments to his solo work though). Quite frankly, "I" think his positive
American underdog writing (I'm American) has spoiled the fundamental
concept, which separated Crimson from the rest of the crowd. From 80's to
present the music could easily be played on any air wave (not sure why it
isn't but thank goodness). His voice (as nice as it is) could never compete
with the dramatic dark tones of Wettons either. That darkness is what made
the 70's band so beautifully powerful. It is a shame that a piece like
"thrush" suffers from its processed sound because it has the potential of
crossing into the darkness. If D. Cross had played Trey's solo on the
violin or Fripp through an amp it would be a more strikingly beautiful
piece than it already is (Trey does a nice job though). I think all this
technology has negatively impacted all of the new crimson material. Don't
get me wrong, if the technology can produce a full, powerful, and natural
sound then use it (e.g... mellotron), but v-drums and Fripp running the
guitar through the machine doesn't accomplish this. Everything sounds
synthetically thin and dense. Just listen to the Great Deceiver Box
compared to Heavy Construction.  Even though the recording equipment is
currently superior, the Deceiver's sound has more atmospheric power. Keep
in mind it is hard to beat compositions like Starless, Book of Saturday,
and Exiles. To back up my argument about the processed sound, look at it
this way: If you drop a rock into a puddle of water, what do you hear? You
hear the hand releasing the rock, the rock traveling through space, the
rock contacting and entering the water, and the water splashing and this is
dependant on the individuals technique of releasing the rock. If you hit a
v-drum what do you hear?  "TINK" regardless of who hits it (although force
may be an influence).

    Just an end note, Heavy Construction (the European tour on CD in
general) sounded better than the Cleveland show I attended. However, the
v-drums also made HC sound worse. Also, "I" feel that if you leave out
corny songs like Oyster, Frying Pan, and Prozac Blues it would be a very
good live album. The concert video on disc 2 is really good. I haven't
heard Fripp play intense solos like that since "Repercussions of Angelic
Be..". Although I only got to see the Cleveland show this time around and
other American shows could have been more intense. Treys sound is often
hidden in HC and was mildly so at Cleveland, but I think this is the fault
of the Warr guitar which has a prettier and smoother sound than an
aggressive bass. If Levin or another bass player doesn't return then I pray
that Trey uses the bass and leaves the Warr for special instances in the
future. AAhh... it seems I have been full of nothing but criticisms for the
new band. Perhaps I am venting because finals start tomorrow and a long
trip soon follows or I am simply an earnest, bearded young man who has been
reading about conceptual ecosystem models for far too many hours while
listening to vintage Crim.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 18:11:55 -0800 (PST)
From: jeramy lamanno <hiro dot noodles at excite dot com>
Subject: Best? Crimson-related album=centipede

>I'm starting a research with all of you ETers: Which is the best
>Crimson-related album ever?

is there really a best ever anything?  probably not, but i recommend
"septober energy" by CENTIPEDE.

btw,
does anyone have a copy of the centipede movie?
has anyone even SEEN it?

-hiro noodles
http://hiro.drool.org

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 21:39:03 -0800
From: "Mike Dexter" <mkdexter at home dot com>
Subject: art cohen's review ET#776

what a funny review! i posted it on Bowie-net. thanks, Art! -killer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 04:45:22 -0500
From: "ccoulterwsc" <ccoulter at webserverco dot com>
Subject: New Crim, Dark Crim?

Bill wrote in ET779 (New Crim):
"I bought TCoL and basically think it sucks."

To tell the truth, I couldn't really dig it the first three times I heard
it,
initially getting a sense of something rushed and unfinished.
However, listening number 4 (very critical ear at this point) was very
enjoyable! The grooves stuck in, the repetitive seemed more inventive,
and both the individual tracks and overall structure flowed and pleased.
Listenings 5 and 6 really inspired my appreciation of tcol, and I now
consider it "one of the good ones".

"I'd much rather hear BB & TL put some feeling into a song."
Having recently seen the band, take my word for it, Pat and Trey
(as well as Adrian and Robert, of course) put plenty
of feeling and magic into the music. Their contribution and artistry is
immense.
Though I am a huge fan of both Tony and Bill, I think it's unfair to
expect Pat and Trey to be defined by their predecessors' reputations.
These "new" guys are great talents, don't ignore them just
because "Bruford is God".

About the issue of overt "darkness" in tcol as mentioned recently in ET
posts:
I don't find tcol particularly dark. I may have some "dark" passages, I
guess, but
I think I would call these more "heavy" or "loud". But not really any more
so than, say,
Thrak or Red or parts of pretty much all KC recordings since the beginning.

Christian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 09:31:51 -0300
From: "jose poggio" <jose at jpoggio dot com>
Subject: Absolute Zero

Hi Kcrimsonics:
This mail is not about KC specifically, but it is about an old new great
band called Absolute Zero.
They are Enrique Jardines (a friend of mine, perhaps one of the most amazing
creative bass players and composers in the world) Aisslin Quinn (a great top
notch woman musician from NY) and the legendary PIP PYLE, who does not need
any presentation. This trio (sounds like a double sextet) is really amazing
and the great news is that they are finally going to release a CD during
2001, which I am sure that will be of interest to the most quality demanding
KC audience. To illustrate more about this band I transcribe below a review
of a recent AZ recording concert in Tampa.Could not find the name of the
author of this review,
hope it will be of your interest,
ATB
jose
Absolute Zero Live in Tampa, Fla., March 17, 2000
I had no idea what to expect on this road trip. I didn't know the people
with whom I would be staying, I'd never been to Tampa before. And I'd heard
only two songs by Absolute Zero, the band we were going to see. I was
secretly a little nervous about the whole thing. Knowing you'll be sleeping
on a stranger's couch in a strange town is sort of disconcerting for a
homebody like myself. "You'll get along great," Jason, my traveling
companion, kept insisting about his friend Tommy, who would be putting us up
for the night after the concert. "And what are the members of Absolute Zero
going to be like?" I wondered. These are R.I.O. musicians. "They're probably
really weird and abrasive personalities. Isn't RIO founding father Chris
Cutler supposed to be the most argumentative rock musician in the world or
something?" Jason was dead set on talking to them as much as possible. I
just wanted to see the show, say hi, maybe get an autograph and leave.

My worries began to evaporate when we finally reached the Spring Theater the
night of the show. Some of my preconceptions were dispelled immediately. I
was expecting a packed concert. I reality, there were only about five cars
in the parking lot and it was just about full. "They really didn't advertise
this very well," I thought. We walked in the door and told the man sitting
at the table we were on the guest list. The man had short bleached blond
hair and was wearing a jogging suit. Europeans seem to wear jogging suits a
lot. He had an English accent. Though I had never seen him before, I knew
who he was. Jason chatted with him and looked at the CDs for sale on the
table. It eventually dawned on him. "Oh you're Pip Pyle!" he stuttered in
amazement. (Duh!) Yes, this cashier and CD peddler was Pip Pyle, formerly a
drummer for Gong, Hatfield and the North, National Health, etc. Not a
household name. Not a Neil Peart or even a Bill Bruford in terms of fame,
but of comparable skill  and of legendary pedigree in hardcore prog circles.
Here we were talking to someone after whom we had once named a cat! He
commented on Jason's Gong shirt. We also met and talked with Aislinn Quinn
and Enrique Jardines. Both were friendly and talkative, but Enrique, with
whom Jason and I had both exchanged several e-mails in the past, and our
unofficial host for the evening, exemplified the word friendly. He hugged us
and told us we had been in the hearts and minds of the band members. He
thanked us profusely for coming and for supporting the band through
publicity on Dreams Wide Awake (Jason's internet radio show) and Reels of
Dreams Unrolled. So much for my preconceptions. Enrique seemed almost too
nice to be true at first, but his gracious nature was sincere.

We also learned how Enrique had managed to enlist Pip Pyle in the band.
Enrique had lived in England for a time in the '70s. For a while, he slept
on the floor at Alan Gowen's house  the very same house where National
Health was rehearsing at the time. Hence, the Miami/Canterbury connection.

We also soon discovered that this was not exactly a concert, but a recording
session. The Spring Theater appeared to be an old movie theater which had
been retrofitted as a recording studio. The "show" was apparently only for a
select few individuals who had been invited or the even fewer who just paid
to get in the door. Among those who showed up were a DJ for a local public
radio station, some middle-aged jazzers and a large, hairy man with a
strange accent who I'm sure said he was a pot head pixie  or something like
that. All in all there were only about a dozen people in the attendance. I
casually eyed the several vintage keyboard instruments sitting in a neat row
against a wall near the door. Among them were an old Hammond organ and a
Fender Rhodes piano. I fantasized about getting to hear or even play one of
these lovely old dinosaurs, but I knew they probably weren't going to be
dusted off tonight.

We sat in the first of only two rows of folding chairs on the floor of the
theater. The show started later than expected, and there was an opening
band. We weren't prepared for this in more ways than one. The opener was a
free jazz group called the Yarbles Trio. Their name was as enigmatic as
their music. Two of the trio were very well dressed, distinguished looking
middle aged men. They could have been doctors or lawyers for all I knew. The
drummer was also completely normal looking, but not as nicely dressed. They
casually and quietly began to play. It wasn't long before I was completely
amazed by this band. This was as far out as just about anything I had ever
heard. Now I know what "free jazz" means. It seemed to be completely off the
tops of their heads. Speedy, reeling saxophone solos reigned supreme,
followed by some very unorthodox drumming and percussion. It wasn't really
violent or loud. It just completely bent the rules of conventional melody or
structure. Once the sax player switched to a trumpet, but played it with his
sax reed. Then he switched the reed to his trumpet mute and played that! The
result sounded something like a duck call. These guys were obviously very
talented and fun to watch, but I can't say I actually "got" the music very
much. The jazzers in the audience dug the whole thing. It was an interesting
and eye-opening experience to say the least.

After a long break, Absolute Zero took the stage. Although there were only
three musicians, they spread from one end of the stage to the other
presumably for recording purposes. Pip Pyle made an announcement about how
this wasn't going to be a typical, "slick" rock show. He warned us that they
would start over if they made any major mistakes. With that, the show, such
as it was, began. Unfortunately, for us, it began with something of a
whimper. Aislinn's keyboards and microphone were not running through the
house speakers, so all we heard was drums and bass for the first few
minutes. Eventually this was corrected and the band continued to rip through
their set. Most of the songs began with a drum assault from Pip. His
drumming was muscular and complex. His presence lent a great deal to the
improvement of the band's sound. On the band's only CD release, A Live In
the Basement, which was recorded with a different drummer, the sound was
much more rigid and electronic. Pyle's background in jazzier realms and his
mostly acoustic drum set helped to bring some very welcome organicness to
the band's sound.

Our friend Enrique became a different person on stage. This short, soft
spoken man became a sinewy bundle of energy once he strapped on his bass
guitar. He worked up a sweat as he bounced around on the theater floor,
though for a couple pieces he had to restrain himself to read the musical
charts on a stand in front of him. His playing style and highly distorted
sound recalled Udu Wudu-era Magma, but he often went beyond that heavy,
distorted, slightly funky style into territory bassists rarely tread.
Flamenco style finger picking, chords and a bona fide lead guitar solo were
all in his repertoire this evening.

Aislinn's keyboard playing and vocals sounded much the same as they do on A
Live In the Basement. Her vocals were almost constantly processed with a
drastic harmonization effect. Her sense of vocal and instrumental melody
fell right in line with the R.I.O. style pioneered by Henry Cow, Art Bears
and Thinking Plague. That is to say it was completely unconventional and
unpredictable. Extremely angular melodies and falling-down-the-stairs
rhythms are her forte, and this night was no exception.

It was a welcome sound when the band began to play "Paradigms" from A Live
In the Basement. It was the only piece we had heard before. It was in
expanded form this night and it sounded better than on the CD.

This performance revealed a looser, more instrumental side to the band than
would have been expected by listening to their CD. Whether or not this will
be preserved on the new full length CD to come from this performance remains
to be seen. The band's sound has improved, however, and a new level of
energy seemed to be feeding all three musicians.

Things loosened up even more at the end of the show when Absolute Zero were
joined by the Yarbles Trio and several members of the audience for a long
jam. Most people found something in the Yarbles drummer's bag of percussion
objects and junk (literally) to bang on. Some people were in time, some
weren't, but it didn't matter much because most of them dissolved into the
polyrhythmic stew anyway. Everyone seemed to be having a good time. I
declined to join because I am more of a stringed instrument kind of guy.

After the show we talked to Enrique some more, said our goodbyes and headed
back to Tommy's house, where I slept on the couch and suffered the worst cat
allergy attack of my life. It could have been much worse. Tommy and his
parents were very friendly hosts. And I didn't have to argue with any R.I.O.
musicians.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 14:07:23 +0100
From: "Marcus Enochsson" <the_unifaun at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Toyah

Hey all,

>The pics of Fripp & Toyah from Hello! magazine helped me realize that I
>don't think I'd ever seen a picture of Toyah before.

In fact, I have been surprised a few times to see her pop up in a few TV
programs that I hadn't expected her to. But she seems to be an
ever-appearing "celebrity" person in media in Britain. Am I right?

Anyway, as I was reminded of her existence by the last ET digest, and
realized that I in fact didn't know much about her, I checked up the
(un)official Toyah WWW site (which BTW, has moved, wink, wink - ET
link-keeper Dan) http://members.home.net/stab/toyah/ieya.htm

It was interesting to find out a few things about her. She does indeed seem
to be an insteresting woman. One phrase found on the site, that I was very
bemused by was the following:
"I knew what I wanted to do at a very early age. By the time I was ten years
old, I had decided that I wanted to be an actress or a singer. Before that I
wanted to be an astronaut, a monk, or a spy with the SAS. Most of all, I
didn't want to be like the other girls, to have a nice husband and a house."
(http://members.home.net/stab/toyah/toyflexi.htm)

Well, maybe the first word to describe Fripp wouldn't be "nice" anyway...

Sincerely,
Marcus Enochsson

PS. And Fripp is right! She IS a beautiful creature.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 15:09:43 +0100
From: "Marcus Enochsson" <the_unifaun at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Add-on Toyah post

Well, I continued to explore mrs. Fripp-on-the-web, and found that she has
an official homepage at http://www.toyahwillcox.com/ (wink, wink, Dan,
again...). And, though that may not have validated this post, an entry in
her most recent diary does, as I don't recall reading this in mr. Fripp's
diary (which I assume ET'ers read more then TW's):

"I want to end this letter with a strange but true story that happened to my
husband Robert Fripp this week in LA. In 1987, Robert and I were involved in
a film project called Neuromancer. It was to be filmed at Shepperton,
starring myself and Cher. There were three producers at the time who had all
jointly raised the money. But without warning one of the producers did a
runner and supposedly with the money. The film was never made.

Last week, Robert was checking into his hotel room on sunset strip in LA and
the Bell Boy said Mr. Fripp? Robert said No as he always does and the
Bell Boy then said You dont remember me do you? I was the producer on
Neuromancer. And low and behold there was the guy who did the runner, now a
Bell Hop in LA!!!!!!!!!!"

Sincerely,
Marcus Enochsson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 09:53:04 -0500
From: Warren Melnick <warren dot melnick at astata dot com>
Subject: Re: Recording streams

If you like that, you should try finding a copy of Streambox VCR.
The program was never released, because I believe they are still sorting
out some licensing issues, but the final beta (1.0b2) can be found
in various places around the web.  This program will record to disk any
Windows Media or Real Networks stream.  This program is what let me
make copies of the Mexico City show, the 4 Nashville warmup shows (audio
and the limited Video), the Fripp Eden interview, the B.L.U.E. show
from House of Blues, the recent 2-part Tony Levin show, the recent and
older Soundscapes shows from WNYC....

Anyway, you get the picture.  As far as legality goes, nobody has
decided precedent either way, so I am working under the assumption
that the "Betamax" case holds, at least in the US, so that I can
record these shows for timeshifting purposes, and perhaps even make
copies for my friends.

While on this subject, I am still trying to find any webcasts that
I might be missing.  Please reply to me if you know of any, as I would
love to watch or listen to them.  Here is the list of what I have been
able to find:
KC: Mexico City 1996, WMA Audio
KC: Memphis 2000 (4 audio shows plus video of Oyster Soup and Frying Pan,
all WMA)
KC: Japan 1995 (4 songs WMA video)
TLev: CGT with TLev from KGNU (RealVideo)
TLev: Idiots Delight 15-Oct-2000, WNEW RealAudio
TLev: Lees Place 28-Oct-2000 RealVideo
BLUE: House Of Blues, WMA Audio
RF: Eden Interview RealVideo 128k, 2 parts
RF: Soundscapes, WNYC New Sounds 1998 RealAudio
RF: Soundscapes, WNYC New Sounds 2000 RealAudio

I also have found a bunch of Yes stuff from 1997 through the Masterworks
tour.

Any others would be appreciated.

Thanks

Warren Melnick
Director of Research and Development
Astata Corporation

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Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:02:08 -0800 (PST)
From: jan geerts <forimul at yahoo dot com>
Subject: The Fourth Coming Of Saint William Of Bruford

Adrian Cagnani thought that it takes a drummer or another musician to
understand the 'bring Bill back kick'.  I am a musician, and I'm very happy
with Pat, thank you.  So is my very talented drummer, and we're both BB
enthusiasts, but we don't let that get in the way of appreciating other
drummers.  I hope that Bill doesn't return, so I can enjoy more of Pat
spreading his wings fully in Crim (wwooaaa, blasphemy! what's the
Inquisition number?:)) If 'His Billness' does return however, I won't
complain about it, since that would be stupid : I have no authority at all
on the matter.  I'll probably enjoy it.  And another thing (BK): Bill is as
human as any of us : he also is a very good drummer.  Calling any musician
god is understandable if you're fifteen, but for a mature person, I think
that's just plain silly.  BK also uses the terms 'verbally destroyed' :
that's one view.  I'd say 'corrected by reason'.  One might not enjoy TCOL,
and that's ok ofcourse (boy, how open can a door be), but I have yet to see
one single reasonable argument that justifies calling it trash, or saying
it sucks.  I think emotion is the main thing when experiencing music, but
that is completely personal(this door has been removed long ago).  If we
want to discuss qualities, this would demand reason(...).  There are people
who mistake their personal perceptions for general standards ; when that
assumption is dealt with by reason, this is not destruction.

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End of Elephant Talk Digest #780
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