Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #78 Discipline, Number 78 Wednesday, 3 February 1993 Today's Topics: ** From the Editor ** The wonderful world of the Mellotron The Great Deceiver Fripps `New Standard Tuning' Great Deceiver Sylvian Lake? Slyvian? New line-up? Question on Guitar Craft Address Wanted ! Band. Re: Great Deceiver Quick GDCDBS review/disclaimer Ramblings About Various Projects Crimson thoughts Lake in Crimson musician-ship in regards Crimson-fandom Exposure The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp Re: Exposure, Cheerful Insanity Re: Great Deceiver Box Set Wetton on Starless | Belew's 'Voice' Asbury Park Unofficial live recordings The Definitive Editions [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ** The Editor ** Hi everyone. Thanks to the huge number of you who responded to the 'are you a musician?' survey of the last issue. Results will be announced in the next issue, so if you still haven't let me know -- please do! This also applies to people who AREN'T muscians by the way. I want to try and get a complete picture of the interests of the readership. And finally (I'll shut up in a minute), thanks for all your kind words about improving Discipline, and to Neal Stephenson for his excellent suggestion of a logo for Discipline. What should it be? Why, the front cover of the "Discipline" album, of course! What else? So, now we need a volunteer to convert this to ASCII graphics. Come on -- it's a challenge! Let me know. Extra-finally, We need to clear up a misunderstanding: Jeremy Weissenburger <07822 at chopin dot udel dot edu> says: [DISCLAIMER: "Ghost" had stated last issue that I have the Tony Levin discography. I possess no such file, so don't ask for it.] I'm confused. So who has the Levin discog? Best wishes Toby, your friendly editor. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: All about Mellotrons, a compilation of notes From: aaron at minster dot york dot ac dot uk Mellotron anecdote. Aren't King Crimson and Genesis supposed to have shared a mellotron aroubd '69/'70, around the period that Steve Hackett hung around Robert Fripp. Hackett admits his style was at least in part influenced by Fripp. From: pmartz at dsd dot es dot com (Paul Martz) Isn't the sound generated from magnetic tape? Each key causes a different tape to be played in a tape loop. So you can really load it with whatever sounds you want. Hope I'm not confusing this with some other instrument... From: rbharding at yuggoth dot org (Ron Harding) I wondered about this for years until I stumbled across a description of the Mellotron in a book about electronic instruments. It's basically a really fancy tape-player. Each key has an 10-second tape under it. When you press the key, the tape starts playing. When you release the key, the tape is pulled back to the starting position by a weight. Obviously, any sounds you want can be recorded on the tapes, not just the usual strings. I'm going back the U of Waterloo library tomorrow to borrow the book again. Since seeing ELP on Friday (awesome show!) I've been curious about the finer details of how Hammond organs work. Something about spinning discs. From: dmandl at shearson dot com (David Mandl) I've loved the mellotron since I was a tot. Time limits prevent me from going into too much detail here, but in a nutshell: The m. was invented by a British guy named Chamberlin (sp?). In fact, the original instrument was called a chamberlin--it actually still pops up on LPs here and there, like Bowie's "The Lodger" and Elvis Costello's "Spike." When it was refined and mass-produced, it was dubbed the mellotron (MELOdy + elecTRONics). Basically, the instrument is like a large tape deck: there is a rack of tapes inside the machine, each tape hooked up to key on the keyboard. When you press a key, the appropriate tape (tuned to the appropriate note) is played. The mechanism is very primitive and notoriously shaky; for example, m's ALWAYS went out of tune, especially when lugged around on tour. However, you could, in theory, get ANY SOUND you wanted out of the instrument--it was an exact analog (so to speak) of the digital samplers of today. People had tapes of their voices made, etc. The most popular of the stock mellotron tapes/sounds by far were the violin and flute. The violin can be heard on almost any early Genesis song, for example (try "Watcher of the Skies"), or the beginning of Jethro Tull's "Cross- Eyed Mary." The flute sound can be heard on "Daniel" by Elton John. Also available were percussion, voices (as well as choirs), woodwinds, etc., etc. I did a mellotron special on my radio show several years back, where I played only songs with mellotron in them; I also interviewed the president of the company (at the time--this was about the fourth incarnation of the company, and they've since gone out of business again!). It was fun and also put me in touch with the small but fanatical mellotron community. P.S.: Important note to Discipline readers!: During one of my Robert Fripp interviews a few years ago, I brought up the subject of the mellotron. He said that some people were putting together an LP to benefit Chamberlin, who was apparently old, broke, and ailing. He said he'd probably be contributing something, though he had no interest in the instrument any more. That's all he said, and I've never heard anything else about the project before or since! From: "Walter K. Daniel" As I'm sure that many other readers have pointed out, a mellotron was an analog sampling keyboard. A playback head was mounted on each key. When the player pressed a key, a tape (no more than 20 seconds long) would start and pass over the head, thus providing that taped sound on demand. There were tapes for each key and each sound, so just imagine what the mechanical complexity the technicians had to deal with! Also, note all the effort it took to provide tapes for choir, brass, strings, flute, etc. Lots of people have sampled Mellotrons into digital sampling keyboards over the years. The sounds are still popular, so a company is introducing a sound module of "classic" keyboard sounds that includes some Mellotron samples. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: aaron at minster dot york dot ac dot uk Subject: Great Deceiver Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 14:47:12 GMT The Great Deceiver. Adam Sweeting in the Guardian gave the Great Deceiver box set a good review a couple of weeks ago, congratulating them on their innovation. He said that (close paraphrase) "unfortunately rock has shrunk to no longer be big enough to encompass the music. Now it might be termed jazz". He was much more impressed than with the Genesis live set which he thought was dull, although it was from a much later period. Bye -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Aaron Turner | "And a letter in your writing | | aaron at minster dot york dot ac dot uk | doesn't mean you're not dead" Pixies RIP | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: kelly at minster dot york dot ac dot uk Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 15:04:57 Subject: Fripps `New Standard Tuning' I have read both reports on whether Fripp started using his new tuning about 1980 (David Bowie's Scary Monsters) or later, after the 80's incarnation of King Crimson. Most interviews that I have read support the idea that the final `new standard' tuning was first used on Sylvians `Gone to Earth', after the 80's Crimson. It is of course possible (or even likely) that he has been experimenting with tuning for some time, and used some of his experimental tunings on his session work with Bowie. I think that the words that he described his work on `Gone to Earth' were `I was not fluent yet with the new standard tuning'. Well, if thats not fluent then I am giving up the guitar now. Ian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ian T. Kelly | University of York, UK | kelly at minster dot york dot ac dot uk | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 11:11:30 -0600 From: John R. Nash Subject: Great Deceiver kenneth stuart wrote: >I have finally listened to the whole of the Great Deceiver set. >My impression is that, since the set does not have any complete, unedited >concerts Yes, it does. The Providence concert is complete, presented for its historic value as the second-to-last KC mk. II concert. > For me, the first CD was so-so, I can't imagine playing it >in preference to the other three which were much more interesting. Wow, what a difference an opinion makes! Disc One is my favorite (followed by Disc Three). The two improvs are especially strong, IMHO. >In any event, I wanted to ask if anyone else has noticed a one-minute gap >near the end of Disc Three (certain songs have periods of only audience >sounds, but this one has no sounds whatsoever)?? The end of the disc has a long pause, followed by Fripp's discussion of "how to tune two Mellotrons." I think this was inadvertently put on, through the magic of computer editing.... At any rate, there's no mention of it on the track listing. -john nash nash at chem dot wisc dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: cs163wel at sdcc8 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Sylvian Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 9:17:00 PST Thanks for all the responses. I'm not too familiar with the Mellotron sound. I heard that Fripp ran his guitar through a VCS synthi or something like that on a few Crimson numbers and I thought "Trio" might have been one of those. I thought I'd check out this David Sylvian guy who's supposed to be the next lead singer for King Crimson, so I rented Japan's _Oil on Canvas_ concert video. Hate to say this, but I just wasn't impressed. Maybe I've just been listening to too much adventurous music lately, but I didn't care too much for the music in this video or for Sylvian's stage presence. Ironically, I would have liked Japan (the group of course) if I had heard them during my junior high school years, when I was really into Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet, and other people of the "New Romantic" school at that time. One positive comment: I liked Mick Karn's bass playing. I'd like to hear from anyone who can explain to me just how much Sylvian has changed and improved from that time. I don't mean to flame the poor chap; I just would like to hear about how different he is now. BTW, I play guitar and occasionally GR700 guitar synth. Also BTW, I paid $15 for my ticket to the Robert Fripp and His String Quintet show. -- Paolo Valladolid pvallado at sdcc13 dot ucsd dot edu Broken hearts are for a**holes -Frank Zappa [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 25 Jan 1993 12:19:38 -0500 From: MOONLIT KNIGHT Subject: Lake? Slyvian? New line-up? What Anil reported from Mr. Lake seems to make alot of sense, that when he said he would work with Crimson it would be in the future beyond the current lineup. I guess the most obvious protest would to the idea of a Belew/Fripp/Levin/Moratta/Slyvian lineup is that it doesn't exactly fit the rubric of four members having been in the band before. Unless Jerry is considered to have been in the band during the last year. Anyway, there's not much point in splitting hairs about it, I mean, Lake may not be the best informed person on the subject. Anyway, at least it's getting our Brit-to-Yank ratio a little more where it ought to be (ha ha ... wait, Slyvian is English isn't he?). Jeff [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 11:02:21 PST From: Richard dot Schiavi at Eng dot Sun dot COM (Rich Schiavi) Subject: Question on Guitar Craft Address I tried sending a letter to the following Guitar Craft address asking for information. The letter was returned due to an incorrect address. Is Guitar Craft still in existence?? Guitar Craft, c/o ASCE, Rt. 1, Box 279, Charles Town, West Virginia Thanks, Rich [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 19:27:43 GMT From: mark butler Subject: Wanted ! Band. The recent muso survey set me thinking. Anybody in the Midlands area need a Chapman Stick player for their band ? I've been playing Stick for three years now (before that just bass, now Stick only) and I`ve studied with Jim Lampi, Frank Jolliffe, Daniel Schell and Volker Rehn (currently playing Stick with Toyah). I listen to Crimson, Eno, Hendrix, Jon Hassall and Cream. If your interested, or if you play stick yourself please email me. Incidentally, Volker's band "A Kiss of Reality" are touring in April (Poland I think, not sure where else). David, the guitarist, can be heard on some of the League of Crafty Guitarist's recordings. I saw them a few months back and they were storming so if you get the chance check them out ! mark butler JANET: CCA91061 at UK dot AC dot BIRMINGHAM dot COMPUTER-CENTRE dot IBM3090 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: dlm%math dot ufl dot edu at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:52:37 EST Subject: Re: Great Deceiver I have also noticed the gap at the end of the third disk in the Great Deceiver box set. I also found a couple of things about the set that are strange. The end of disk 3 after the minute of complete silence has one of the band members announce the song _Lament_ , but it is not played and although there is a version of _Lament_ in the set, it is not from the same show as the announcement. Also, the numbering on CD 3 & 4 is reversed on the writing on the side of the jewel box but appears correctly on the cover and back of the jewel box. Does anyone else have this problem with their set? ------dlm at math dot ufl dot edu --- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:39:38 -0500 From: Jeremy Weissenburger <07822 at chopin dot udel dot edu> Subject: Quick GDCDBS review/disclaimer I found this in the Jan. 22 issue of Entertainment Weekly, one of them "insights on the entertainment biz" rags, er... mags: KING CRIMSON: The Great Deceiver: Live 1973-1974 (Discipline/Caroline) This four-CD boxed set of previpusly unissued shrieks, gurgles, and blips sounds more substantial than most any rock you'll hear being played today- which means it deserved (in italics) to be called progressive rock. But only fanatics (or sociopaths) will be able to sit through it all at once. Grade: B Fanatically (and sociopathically) yours, --Jeremy (who plays euphonium/baritone horn, thank you very much.) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:52:46 -0700 From: dalton at isidis dot colorado dot edu (lizard man) Subject: Ramblings About Various Projects The Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles and Fripp: I managed to tape this from a friend. The music is great, and clearly a parody of the late-sixties symphonic rock movement which was later to make Fripp very famous. The tragicomic "Saga Of Rodney Toady" is great; just reading about it in Discipline #77 has gotten it going in my head...now I'll have to go home and put it on! McDonald and Giles: Their duo album is another hard-to-find gem and has a very dated-looking cover photograph of McDonald & Giles, each with a very mod sixties babe on their arm! The music is of the same quality as "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles & Fripp", though somewhat more serious; and side two of the LP is an epic called "Birdman." If my copy weren't so scratchy i'd play it more often. Exposure: As to musicians on "Exposure," I should mention that Narada Michael Walden is one of the drummers, and of course Peter Gabriel did the vocal on "Here Comes The Flood," which also appears on one of his solo albums. Isn't this available on CD? Nobody should have to resort to bootlegs to get this! Sunday All Over The World: Just got "Kneeling At The Shrine" after reading about it ad infinitum and finally getting to listen to it at the CD store. Excellent stuff, though the first track sounds a bit too much like "League Of Gentlemen." Some songs are really great, some are just OK. I occasionally find myself wishing Toyah would shut up so I could listen to the music alone. I sometimes feel that Crimson music would be better without words. "Waiting Man" "The Howler" "The Mincer" are examples of songs I feel this way about. Others may disagree. Another of my favorite bands, Phish, could probably dispense with vocals a good 70% of the time and be no worse off for it. The Great Deceiver: It's going to take a long time for me to digest this baby! I've had it since November and still have a long way to go. The first few minutes of the "Center of the Earth" improv are worth the price of the boxed set alone. Makes me wish they'd release "USA" just for the "Asbury Park" improv. The full version of "Providence" provides a context in which that piece makes more sense to me. The Bruford/Wetton rhythm section is indeed formidable...I have a much greater respect for Wetton now after listening to this. And David Cross' contributions to the band are more evident here as well. On Lark's Tongues I had the impression that he played what Fripp told him to; but he holds his own on the improvs here, and contributes a very special element to that psychedelic edge that Crimson always had, whether Fripp took drugs himself or no. Nerve Net: The Fripp parts on this album are great, but I especially love how Eno plays with samples. After all, he was doing it long before it was in vogue as is presently the case. I think of this album as Eno showing the industrial groups "how it's done by somebody with some experience." Hey why hasn't Eno ever been in Crimson? Why couldn't he be the fifth member? And for that matter what have Fripp and Byrne ever done besides the track "I Zimbra"? Cloud About Mercury: I got this David Torn album because I'd heard Bruford was on it; once I saw the cover and found out that the lineup was Torn/Levin/Bruford I was convinced! But when i got it home i was very disappointed in the prevalence of Bill'd syntho-drums, which basically bore me. But now, a year and several listenings later, i have realized more of what Bill was up to, and have come to appreciate his subtle intricacies more. It's not in-your-face, as "Red" or "Feels Good To Me" were, but for a mellow jazzy album it's quite melodic and beautiful, with some very interesting parts where the percussion figures more in the melody than the rhythm for a change of pace. I guess i better shut up now, --lizard man [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:04:07 +1000 From: keens at phillip dot edu dot au Subject: Crimson thoughts i) I agree with Ken (#76) that transcriptions could perhaps be put somewhere else - they are meaningless to me. ii) I don't see any reason why KC/RF attracts musicians particularly. The interest is in good music - through Fripp I found Eno, through whom much great music, the Obscure releases for instance, which I think was a seminal series for late twetieth century music. from them through to many others - Eno or Fripp being involved indicate to me an interesting musical experience. Both explore the wide expanses of music (recent comments re techno/dance involvements of Fripp are a good example). iii) I got the bootleg Cheerful Insanity. I would disagree that the music parodies those of the period, but is rather a fairly standard (though interesting) example of music from the late sixties. The intertrack stories are similar to ones on albums such as Small Faces Odgens Nutgone Flake, and the range of music is similar to the early (sidbarret) pink floyd. Enjoyable music excursion (see also XTCs Dukes of Stratospheres albums which pay hommage to this style of music). A similar one to mention to discipliners is the MacDonald and Giles album - including a version of cadence and cascade plus some interesting other stuff. iv) I don't know how Eric Tamm's book has been received in Discip (havent been able to get the backissues off the archive as our server is having problems) but perhaps it could be noted in the endnotes as a resource for questions such as Matthew Frazer's. However, I realise some readers love to respond to basic questions, perhaps to demonstrate their great knowledge and long term involvement with KC/RF - as some of the responses to the flute->guitar in Trio (noitsamellotronyoudummy) show. Anyway - I enjoy discipline - while I am not an abject fripper, he is one of the central group of music makers who form a stimulating part of my music enjoyment. The range of music he has presented has helped me to enlarge my own musical horizons - the obscure series noted above, the factory Classical series and other musics of all sorts. jeremy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 23:28 PST From: ken at wet dot uucp (kenneth stuart) Subject: Lake in Crimson My reaction to both instances of the Lake/Fripp reunion is Fripp trying to be courteous to an old friend and probably a pleasant person. (You know, when a friend drops by, you always say something like "Oh, come by again when you have time to stay awhile" even though you may mean just the opposite!) I quite like Lake's musical work pre-Love Beach [I think Tarkus started a whole new genre of music that never came to pass.]. But, I find he has gone steadily downhill since then. Period. I saw him replacing Wetton in Asia and thought "Great, he's replacing Mr. Cynical, perhaps it will be better". The result was he could hardly even sing! [Footnote: Wetton once said (in the 80's) that all the progressive/long music was all a bunch of b-s and only short pop songs were worthwhile.] Considering Lake's musical work of the past fifteen years, I could hardly imagine Fripp including him with the likes of Levin and Belew. Ken [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 14:42:10 -0500 From: Andrew Thall Subject: musician-ship in regards Crimson-fandom As an amateur guitarist myself, I've noted that most of the more noisy fans of KC are musicians as well. Not to say that there aren't non-musicians who are hip to Crimson--my father, for instance, has worn out the video I gave him of the Three of a Perfect Pair concert in Japan. Anyone who appreciates virtuoso ensemble playing should definitely give a listen to the Fripp/Belew/Levin/Bruford albums. As far as the earlier incarnations, I dig them mightily, but they're a bit more eclectic...musician's musicians...though I've blown away many a metal-head with the live version of Schizoid Man. Similar to fans of Steve Morse and the Dixie Dregs...many fans from all walks of life, but the musician fans are the FANATICS...they are the ones who appreciate most just how insane/impossible/fantastic the playing is. Like Paganini's music heard by a violinist. This is a dangerous place! --Andrew thall at cs dot unc dot edu "Only the worthless can be reformed!" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 25 Jan 93 15:57:39 EST From: Michael Sheehan <70373 dot 3423 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: Exposure Matt Frazer writes: >I recently got a less than legal copy of Fripps "Exposure" album, (I have >since been searching high and low to no avail for a legal copy since what I >have is of dubious quality) Exposure is now available on CD, I believe on the Caroline/Blue Lunch label. By the way, Matt, I am local to you in Albany, NY. You can find the Exposure CD at the Music Shack on Central Ave. in Albany. When in town visit me at Mahar's at 1110 Madison Ave, a bar with 600+ beers (51 on tap) where I am the doorman Tues., Wed., and Thurs. nights.... read your postings in alt.tv.twin-peaks sometimes, too! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 09:53:52 EST From: dmandl at shearson dot com (David Mandl) Subject: The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp > From: "Mark Cytera " > Subject: The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp > > You asked about this CD in the last round of "Discipline". I've had a copy > for more than a year (I bought it as a Japanese import in Holland). > I'd like to add a strong "yes" vote to all the lukewarm "maybe"s. I think this LP is wonderful, and grabbed a copy as soon as it became available on CD. (My brother has had an ultra-rare vinyl copy for years.) It ain't Crimson, that's for sure, but it's clever, well-played, and funny--top-notch late-'60s Brit-pop at its finest. I wouldn't be without one, myself. --Dave. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:31:21 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Patrick Arnold Subject: Re: Exposure, Cheerful Insanity To anyone attempting to locate Fripp, King Crimson or Giles, Giles and Fripp CDs (in the US), you have at least two options to consider before wasting money or time on less than legal copies: 1) Tower Records carries Caroline and Deram CD releases. Find the Tower nearest you, and if the CD you're looking for is not there, you can also order through Tower. 2) If you want to save a little more money or if you haven't got a Tower Records near you, call Noteworthy Music, a mail-order CD catalog company, at (800) 648-7972. They also carry the Caroline CDs (including the boxed sets, but I didn't check for GG&Fripp). - Brian [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:44:59 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Patrick Arnold Subject: Re: Great Deceiver Box Set Kenneth Stuart's analysis of this boxed set is flawed. The set does have a complete, unedited concert, namely Providence, which spans 76:43 on the first CD, and 8:47 on the second CD. The set is complete and the booklet backs up this fact (towards the end, after the reviews). In addition, three other concerts are almost as complete, each on the three other CDs, with one to three songs omitted in order to include excerpts from two other concerts. I think this editing is what makes the other three CDs more listenable than the first. I think the job done on this set is above par. Sure it could have included something with Jamie Muir, sure it could have included something from early 1973 to represent a wider period of time, but the concert selections and variations on the same music are highly dynamic as it is, of both excellent and average music, and extremely well recorded. It is not intending to provide all of the music presented during that period, nor is the boxed set intending to provide the best music presented during that period. The goal was to *represent* the music presented, with an eye toward the best recordings (not the same as best music!) available, an eye on the CD time limit, and a sensitivity to the 4-CD boxed set mentality of the music market and the patience of the listener. The result is 4 CDs of music from a 9 month period of time, of excellent and average music, all highly recommendable. I couldn't have asked for more. - Brian [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: tm1cy1 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 15:32:20 GMT Subject: Wetton on Starless | Belew's 'Voice' Hi there progressives.... I haven't mailed in a while and must say that Discipline has been a pretty good read in recent issues. Firstly I would like to answer Aaron's previous query as to whether Wetton used a pick or not, well judging by the Yesyears vyd - which has an excerpt of Easy Money he uses his fingers. As for the sound he gets out of his bass , I guess that is really to do with the amplifiaction he is using and the more trebly setting. I recently got Starless ( haven't got Red) but in comparison to Larks his sound seems to have mellowed out a lot more, plus he did not use the wah. Another point I would like to make is , is Wetton one of the pioneers of the slap-bass sound as he seemed to achieve it pretty well on The Night Watch and We'll Let You know among others , I was quite surprised to hear slapping (or at least just popping) on such an early album. Another question I would like to ask is whether David Cross was still a member of the band on Starless & Bible Black? As the electronic discography suggests that the personell only consisted of Fripp/Bruford/Wetton although there is some Violin & Viola on the tracks it does not feature as heavily as it with Larks. Had he become a session member by then? I recently got Disciplne and much to my surprise I liked it instantly there is something about Belew's singing+talking that really appeals to me, plus the rythms are very strong. I haven't heard Beat Or Three of A perfect pair yet, but would imagine they are similar to discipline - would I be correct in assuming this. Hope I haven't dug on old ground too much, I look forward to some bass transcriptions for the Fripp/Wetton period. Paul [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 1 Feb 93 09:13:12 -0400 From: knishimo at fox dot cce dot usp dot br (Kazuo Nishimoto) Subject: Asbury Park The track Asbury Park in _USA_ live album is an improvisation? It don't appears in any other King Crimson album. Eduardo Issao Ito (knishimo at fox dot cce dot usp dot br) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1993 10:32:14 +1000 From: keens at phillip dot edu dot au Subject: Unofficial live recordings In the Fripp discography, reference is made to some live Eno/Fripp recordings. A couple of questions what are they like (thats the easy one :-)) do any australian readers know if they're available locally, and would any readers like to come to some arrangement to send me a copy? Bootleg the bootleggers - seems fair justice. Email me if you are willing (either some financial or reciprocal arrangement!) Jeremy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: The Definitive Editions Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 0:28:35 EST I've noticed that Caroline has finally issued the "definitive" edition versions of Beat/Discipline/3oPP on CD. Can someone comment on these? Particularly the Discipline CD (which sounds horrific in its pre-definitive release). Thanks, ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anil Prasad | "anyhow cow and many cows floating upside ----------------------------| down mao on tao brown cow how now" wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca | -- e.e. goings ------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.