Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #779 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 779 Monday, 4 December 2000 Today's Topics: Re: Heavy Construction is a must have! Tom_Law's_Post_/_Peter_Hammill Re: Pic search Best Crimson-related album Toyah pix Recording streams Re: It hits the fan in ET #777 Re: Art Cohen's Gig Review Re: It hits the fan Fripp's Tuning Fripp / Larks V / 6 Degrees KCCC # 13 - The Nashville Rehearsals Nashville Rehearsals Tony Levin's set list Re: 6 degrees of separation What is an encore anyway? New Crim Bill Munyon Mac OS and Heavy ConstruKction video: moving forward Suggestion... Soundscape Albums Re: GIG REVIEW: Soundscapes at the World Financial Center ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 06:36:41 -0200 From: "Adrian Cagnani" Subject: Re: Heavy Construction is a must have! Top Jimmy wrote: "Pat has really stepped up to the plate. I don't understand why everybody is on a "bring back Bill kick"." I'm sorry you don't. Maybe if you happen to be a drummer, or a musician... Nothing against Pat, he is good, but Bill... He is not HUMAN! Nothing he plays is less than absolutely brilliant. Precision, punch, criativity, melody, dynamics, sense of time, etc., etc., etc. Adrian Cagnani ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:06:43 +0100 From: "Markus Gnad" Subject: Tom_Law's_Post_/_Peter_Hammill Hi All! 1) Tom Law's Post "Young Whippersnappers Don't Know What a Good Thing They Have" ranKcs among the greatest and most creative postings in this forum. WOW! 2) If some of you have the chance to be in Austria on January 16th, go travel to Linz and see the great PETER HAMMILL onstage in Posthof (date announced on Posthof Magazine). Markus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:02:16 +0100 From: "Lukasz Drozd" Subject: Re: Pic search > From RF's diary: >"put out the Hello magazine, spread with fabbo pictures of us at home in > Deepest Dorset" > >Anyone knows if these pictures are available online? > They are! On CRIMPAGE - Polish King Crimson Website of which I am a Webmaster :-) Anyone who wants to see it is invited to CRIMPAGE at http://www.crimpage.prv.pl Click on [Zdjecia] (between [Fripp] and [MIDI]), then "Robert Fripp", then on "Toyah Willcox", and there you go! (a friend of mine scanned them, so he may have more of them - you can write to him at pzlotko at amwaw dot edu dot pl) Hope I was useful :-) Lukasz Drozd drozd at pro dot onet dot pl drozd at vela dot filg dot uj dot edu dot pl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 11:53:53 -0200 From: "Adrian Cagnani" Subject: Best Crimson-related album I'm starting a research with all of you ETers: Which is the best Crimson-related album ever? I vote on BLUE NIGHTS (Live). Adrian Cagnani ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 10:57:06 -0600 From: Don Hosek Subject: Toyah pix The pics of Fripp & Toyah from Hello! magazine helped me realize that I don't think I'd ever seen a picture of Toyah before. My mental image was way off. Actually I think my mental image was Laurie Anderson. -dh --- "E-mail is for geeks and pedophiles." -Valmont, in the film Cruel Intentions ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 12:11:37 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Hartley Subject: Recording streams "Schilling, Hartmut" wrote: > I would like very much to hear the music part of the video (CD 3) on my > stereo. Is there any idea how I can get an MP3, WAV or whatever music file > out of this streaming ASF file which also has the video material included? I have been recording streaming audio direct to disk with the wonderful program Total Recorder from High Criteria (http://www.highcriteria.com/) It's the best $12 (US) I've spent on the computer! My CD collection has been greatly enlarged by lots of great online concerts that I can listen to in places other than in front of my computer. ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh at brainiac dot com 12 Emma G Lane, Narragansett, RI 02882 - vox 401.782.9042 Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 18:44:07 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Re: It hits the fan in ET #777 >Me, I have no freaking idea. But I find myself just a little embarrassed as >a Crim fan when someone who raises these questions is dismissed in so >cavalier a fashion as to be told to "move on." I was the one who mentioned the famous "move on", so maybe I can answer. The questions raised by Richard Warner (is there light in COL or not?) are probably interesting and worth discussing. But when such interesting questions are wrapped in so cavalier a fashion as to say "go into retreat, you're not worth any respect", along with an incredible amount of self-projection, I really feel embarrassed. Hence my answer. ___ Laurent Masse ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 15:08:25 -0500 From: "Mark Stansbery" Subject: Re: Art Cohen's Gig Review Just a short word of thanks to Art for passing on the Gig Review that appeared in ET # 776. It had me just laughing out loud. I think maybe the guy who wrote it was standing behind me at the Cleveland show (the one who's buddy called out for 'Easy Money"). Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:07:32 -0600 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Re: It hits the fan Josh wrote: >And am I the only one who finds this "move on" thing to be patronizing, >offensive, and contemptuous? It may well be! Really, we writing here didn't think of the term so Fripp should be considered to be the source of the "moving on" concept. My guess (and I hesitate to make ANY assumption of Fripp's intent) would be that Fripp thinks hearing the needs/desires/opinions of fans wishing KC to be something other than it presently is, is what is actually patronizing, offensive, and contemptuous. >Moving on is the coward's way out. No, its the respectable way out.... >Me, I suggest that if you find yourself >less than thrilled by the turn Crim's music has taken of late, STICK AROUND! >Speak up! Make your voice heard! Or else, as each new release alienates at >least some of the ever-dwindling (by definition, as so many are forced to >"move on" after each release) Crim fanbase, eventually said fan base is >going to disappear up its own asshole. Its not a matter of KC's fan base dwindling, KC's motive seems to be that they would rather have NEW fans of the NEW band, rather than fans of the old band trying to tell the new band what to be. Really, if Fripp was worried about alienating the "old" fan base, surely he wouldn't be telling the old fans to move on, now would he? There is no "making your voice heard," The band exists for itself, not the fans. As far as I can tell, KC always has options to make itself more successful than it already is, biggers venues, bigger tours, TV, etc. You make it seem like we the fans should gang up of Fripp and force him to do what we say. >I for one thought that-- regardless of what one might have to say about the >choice of words in Mr. Warner's post-- he brought up an interesting point >about the dark nature of Crim's music, from the ProjeKcts on. There's NO way that the later 90's to present Crimson is somehow "darker" than earlier Crimson. The 70's crimson for me is the darkest Crimson, lyrically, sonically and otherwise. Evil mellotrons, distorted bass, distorted guitar, violin and Fender Rhodes piano. The lyrics from the 70's are downright depressing compared to Belew's. >Is this just >the Yang to the Yin of Mata Kudesi or Sheltering Sky or Heartbeat? A >continuation of a dark strain that has been present since Schitzoid Man? A >new exploration of the dark side, which can often resonate with people deep >within? Or is it a symptom of something, like a dream that once revealed >tells more about the dreamer than perhaps he intended. I suspect that Mr. >Warner postulates the latter. Yeah, but it is postulated like its a recent change is Crimson's music. I mean, come on! If you don't like dark music you're listening to the wrong freakin' band! Go hop on the Yes bandwagon if you want happy music. I do think the music Fripp writes and the style it reflects does show an element of his personality, but what exactly that element is, who knows? It could well be that the sound of the music is merely a biproduct of not wishing to be limited to the notes of a Westernized major scale. >I find myself just a little embarrassed as a Crim fan when someone who raises >these questions is dismissed in so cavalier a fashion as to be told to "move on." One can raise the questions all one wants to but when it comes to someone saying there's a problem with the band, that they don't like where its going, that they want to tell Fripp what he should be doing (in particular when they wish him to go back to some previous preferred style from the past), it does seem appopriate to "move on." Take the band as it is, good or bad. If you don't like it, you are not forced to listen. But don't think you as a fan have a democratic say in what the band should do. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 19:17:32 EST From: ChalkPie88 at aol dot com Subject: Fripp's Tuning Is it true that Fripp uses his own tuning?? If so, how long has he been using it and what is it??? Frank [ Please see the ET FAQ for an answer to this (http://www.stevenspage.com/et/faq5.htm#q17). Folks, please don't post to ET replying to this query, please, or we'll be inundated! -- Thanks, Toby] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:44:28 +0000 From: John Peacock Subject: Fripp / Larks V / 6 Degrees > Richard Warner said: > > I promised myself that I wouldn't do this but I think it is time to take Mr. > Fripp to task. > > [but he does, at length] Uhhm. No offense, people (or should that be offence?) but Fripp obviously thinks very long, very hard and very *deliberately* indeed about what he should do. A constant subtext of his diaries is the meditation on what the-being-that-inhabits-the-body-of-Fripp can achieve and how, and what the-entity-that-is-King-Crimson can achieve and how. If he thinks the interests of either of those entities would be best served by avoiding the gaze of the public, he would do so as he has done before on several occasions. Fripp isn't entering into negotiation with the public vis-a-vis his attitude to them or anything else. Why on earth should he? He has nothing to gain by doing so, and, frankly, we have nothing to gain by his doing so. Just let him get on with whatever he is doing and be more or less interested or delighted or entertained or bored or appalled or infuriated by the result. I honestly don't care what Fripp thinks of me as a punter any more than I care what Thomas Pynchon or Peter Greenaway or the Campbell's Soup company think of me. > Jon Woodworth asked: > > What happened to the 'Larks V' that Fripp mentioned in the tourbook? > Did it become 'FracKtured'...? Yes. > Chelsea Snelgrove posited: > > Here's a "six degrees of separation" puzzle for you: King Crimson and > Burt Bacharach. Any takers? How about Fripp to Eno to Elvis Costello to Bacharach? or Fripp to Narada Michael Walden (on Exposure) who produced Aretha Franklin (I'm pretty sure) who did Say a Little Prayer by Bacharach and David? John -- In the spirit of shameless self promotion, my songs may be found at: http://www.mp3.com/peacock ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 23:47:47 -0600 From: "Loren W. Claypool" Subject: KCCC # 13 - The Nashville Rehearsals I just received my copy of the Nashville Rehearsals - wow! Incredible! Some really powerful stuff here with the Double Trio ProjeKcting. A question for other KCCC #13 owners. On my copy, on track 19, I hear 4 bursts of digital distortion or clipping at 7:42, 7:57, 8:00, and 8:03. Is this the norm? Thanks, Loren http://www.theclaypools.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 01:26:36 -0600 (CST) From: Fracture5150 at webtv dot net (JOEY SCHRANK) Subject: Nashville Rehearsals I received my Nashville CD today. It is awesome, but track 19 (Tony's Jam) stop's at 12:48 and goes back to track 18 and if you play it again later it will go to track 17. What is up with this? My Summit Studio CD does this at the end of the creator has a master plan. I'm not upset, I just think DGM was in rush to get these releases out. Does anybody out there notice these things also? Also, to people bitching about TCOL, this music is better than the crap that is shoved down our throat everyday on radio & TV. Considering 32 years of Musiking, at least Fripp and the boys still rock and show people who is the real king. Joey (drum player) of IDIOT SAVANT ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 09:27:05 +0100 From: "Sergio Lombardi (Tin)" Subject: Tony Levin's set list Following rs' request on ET 775, I'm posting setlist for Tony Levin's concert recorded at Lee's Palace, Toronto - Canada on October 28th, 2000 and aired at http://www.primeticket.net/shows/tonylevin/ Part 1: 1 - Pillar of fire 2 - Waters of Eden 3 - Gecko walk 4 - Icarus 5 - Mr. Sinergy's solo: Flight of the looking glass 6 - Jamming Crimson 7 - Elephant talk Part 2: 1 - Sleepless 2 - Opal Road 3 - Black dog 4 - Back in N.Y.C. 5 - Utopia pt. 1 6 - Utopia pt. 2 7 - I go swimming 8 - Pillar of fire It is a GREAT, FULL CONCERT! Covers are great (you'll find also a Zep song), but also TL songs are very interesting (I did not know his last Cd "Waters of Eden" and I bought it after listening to the concert) Unfortunately, the reason why I know the single tracks performed is not my presence at the concert : - ( (I'm writing from Italy), but my careful headphone listening. The broadcasting format is streaming Real Player, which you can not save on your hard drive with a single click. The sound quality is very good. Hope it can be helpful..... Sergio Lombardi postaser at tin dot it ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:58:38 +0100 From: "Pierre SIGALAS" Subject: Re: 6 degrees of separation Fripp has played with the Stranglers (during a 1980 concert while Stranglers guitarist Hugh Cornwell was in jail) The Stranglers covered Burt Bacharach "Walk on by" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 09:58:45 +1100 From: "STUDER, Andrew" Subject: What is an encore anyway? Well, nice to see that some favourite E.T. topics never go away. Still, the perennial flash photo issue did cause me to ask myself: what's the point of an encore anyway? The encore is one of those ritual parts of a show which used to be spontaneous but is now "expected". The band walks off. The crowd cheers. Lighters are waved in the air. The band walks on again. The hit single is played. Blah blah blah blah blah. I always thought that the point of an encore was that it was a "gift" from the musicians- not part of the original "contract of performance" if you like- to celebrate a show which had that extra magical something. As far as I'm aware from the reviews I've read, KC has always played a full set- and therefore fulfilled its contract with the audience. If the action of one person in the audience destroys the mood of the musicians, then surely the rest of the audience can't complain too much if the band is not inclined to give them something for nothing. Andrew Studer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:02:49 -0500 From: "Bill Kraemer" Subject: New Crim I read a post recently about AR Crim fans verbally destroying anyone who criticizes Fripp or the double duo. I agree with the poster that it is ridiculous. I bought TCoL and basically think it sucks. However, I have been generally pleased with the KCCC releases and will continue to subscribe until the double duo material takes over. I'd much rather hear BB & TL put some feeling into a song. Waiting patiently to get ripped to shreds, BK (Bruford is God) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:51:06 -0500 (EST) From: Darryl Subject: Bill Munyon Good day Toby & co., I just wanted to know who exactly is Bill Munyon? How long has he been working with Pat? Later, Darryl Pete Townshend commenting on first hearing ItCotKC: "A friend listening to the album from a room below says, 'Is that a new WHO album?'. Deeply I'm ashamed that it isn't, but I'm also glad somehow. That kind of intensity is music not Rock." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 02:14:04 -0600 (CST) From: david craig Subject: Mac OS and Heavy ConstruKction video: moving forward Hear ye, hear ye -- A hardware geek I'm not, but I'm sufficiently interested in this situation that I'm volunteering to be a central database and clearing house for information about how to get the Heavy ConstruKction video working on ALL Macs, and not just some. The aim is enable all Mac OS users to access to access the bonus video on disc two of Heavy ConstruKction. Some solutions have already been presented. Dan Kirkdorffer has done a marvelous job of collecting currently available information at . But what's there hasn't been quite enough for everyone -- myself included. What we need is a direct assault on the problem. And that means that we need to understand precisely what the problem is. If you've read this far, and WHETHER OR NOT you've got the video working, PLEASE send me a quick e-mail (even if you've already posted to ET) telling me i) can you see the read me and .html file on disc two of Heavy ConstruKction when you put the disc in your Mac's CD player? (If not, what DOES happen when you put the disc in the drive?) ii) what version of the Mac OS are you using? (To tell, check "About This Computer" in the Apple menu when you're in the Finder.) iii) Does your machine have DVD capability? iv) What hardware are you using? (i.e. what model Mac do you have -- iMac, iBook, Blue-and-White, G4, what?) [optional] v) Can you access the video? If "yes", please describe in as much detail as you can how you go about it. Both lowbrow and fancy tricks accepted. If I can gather enough specific information, I'm laying odds we can get this straight for everyone and be done with it. ANY information you can provide will be useful. Thanks, David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 11:45:57 -0000 From: Nick & Sue Cook Subject: Suggestion... ...that's probably been made many a time before - wouldn't it be nice to have hyperlinks from the "Today's Topics" section at the top of ET to the relevant item? Y'know, for the one or two of us who view the email in Outlook etc.... [ You get exactly this if you read ET on the Web, at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 13:11:08 -0600 From: Ibrahim Ata SEVER Subject: Soundscape Albums Hi , I want to get the Mr Fripp's soundscape albums but since I don't have a credit card I can't order from DGM. Does anybody know any shop in London selling them? Or any other alternative way to order from DGM? Reply via private email please. Thanks Ibrahim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 20:20:26 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: GIG REVIEW: Soundscapes at the World Financial Center > From: "Robert C. Parducci (legend)" > Subject: GIG REVIEW: Soundscapes at the World Financial Center, 11/30 @ > 6:30 PM > > A fine performance which lasted about one hour. [snip] > A > standing ovation, marred by some thoughtless flash photography. A fine little review, Robert. I'll only add two things: 1. My friend and I thought these were some of the most finely-wrought Soundscapes we've yet heard, musically speaking. They just keep getting better and better. 2. The flash photography (and even covert videotaping from someone up on an upper floor) during the performance did not seem to bother Fripp at all. I think it just shows that he accepts such interferences as inevitable in such a free-of-charge, public setting. The flashes that went off literally in his face as he stood at the front of the stage applauding the audience clearly troubled him more, and sent him scurrying off the stage like a frightened deer. But not five minutes later Fripp was down on the floor, walking through the crowd and handing out individually wrapped chocolates like everyone's favorite dotty old aunt. (I suppose it's not unprecedented - last time Fripp played the WFC, after the show he handed out cute little pastries at the merchandise table.) Someone - presumably an ET reader - handed him a Butterfinger in return. Is it me, or is this in danger of becoming a bit "Rocky Horror"? Good thing they've retired "Neal and Jack and Me," or folks might start waiting for their cue to pelt Adrian with apples and spaghetti the way Barenaked Ladies fans throw boxes of Kraft Macaroni and Cheese at the stage during "If I Had $1,000,000"... ;-) Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com (impatiently awaiting KCCC #13, which my friend received a week ago and won't stop raving about...) ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #779 ********************************