Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #778 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 778 Saturday, 2 December 2000 Today's Topics: Re: Trey's little gadgets Re: deja Vrooom DVD Heavy ConstruKction / Video Re: Club #12 Review: Heavy ConstruKction Heavy K on Macs...info Password for Heavy ConstruKction It's only Rock & Roll TE 774-Alain Proulx BLS Review Philly Set List I just had a weird thought... Opinions and the Double Duo It hits the fan in ET #777 Krimson Kraziness CENTROZOON : Update (New Website) Kong/Djam Karet/Ankh Re: 6 degrees of seperation Pictures of Fripp in Hello magazine The Next Concerts on Mexico Re: Any Fripp/Zappa Connections Question GIG REVIEW: Soundscapes at the World Financial Center, 11/30 @ 6:30 PM ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:36:49 -0800 (PST) From: William Bajzek Subject: Re: Trey's little gadgets It's a green Smokey amp. http://www.smokeyamps.com/ I have one myself (green as well; purely by coincidence) and the effect he achieves with it is easily repeatable with one. it's basically just causing the guitar to feedback. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:12:20 -0600 From: "Jill Bye" Subject: Re: deja Vrooom DVD there's about a 12 minute (maybe a little less) hidden feature of Fripp doing a solo soundscape improv. pretty damn cool if you ask me. i forget, but it's somewhere in the "court of King Crimson" section in one of Fripp's diaries. just click on any little discipline logos if you see them sporatically placed on pages. enjoy -Casey "if you try the best you can, the best you can is good enough"-thom york ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 07:18:49 +0100 From: "Schilling, Hartmut" Subject: Heavy ConstruKction / Video Hello, I would like very much to hear the music part of the video (CD 3) on my stereo. Is there any idea how I can get an MP3, WAV or whatever music file out of this streaming ASF file which also has the video material included? Thanks for the help (by another newsletter entry or by private e-mail). Regards, Hartmut ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 11:19:06 +0000 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: Re: Club #12 In ET #776 Nick Loebner wondered: > All mention of this has disappeared from the DGM news page - are we to > summise it's cancelled? We are to surmise that there's no new news, I think. The Club pages still list it "Release delayed by copyright issues". Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:19:25 +0100 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Review: Heavy ConstruKction PAT MASTELLOTTO IS GOD ------------------------------ Date: 01 Dec 2000 16:31:34 +0000 From: purchase at chichester1780 dot freeserve dot co dot uk Subject: Heavy K on Macs...info Here's the thing Go to http://asu.info.apple.com/swupdates.nsf/artnum/n10061, and download the (small) extension. Its an old one but sits alongside all the the new stuff in OS9 on G3's and G4's. Insert Crimso disc, which should now be recognised. Open to reveal two files( its probably a good idea to have your browser open at this stage) .Open the right hand file in your browser and you will be prompted for the password, enter rome . The browser should now 'download' the video content as it would download any file from the web.....at speed! The file will then open in Windows Media Player for Mac. Good luck. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 11:40:40 -0500 From: "Tony Kennedy" Subject: Password for Heavy ConstruKction > > Two gripes here. 1. WHy bother with the stupid and limited password > > entry system. It is not secure and you have to wait a day to see the > > stuff when you paid good money. > > > I have MusicMatch on my PC and it played the video without needing the password. I did, however, sign up for a password before I realized that. -=-=-=- I'm trying to see your point of view, but I can't get my head that far up my ass. Tony bonkrz at yahoo dot com - tonykennedy at entermail dot net http://rushtabs.tripod.com - http://mp3.com/DanLK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:43:47 -0600 From: "Michael V. Campiglio" Subject: It's only Rock & Roll Whatever happened to "Its only rock & roll, but I like it!" All I've been reading is all the apologies to the band and Fripp. It's a rock concert, on a different level than say, Tom Petty, but there are going to be people smoking dope, people taping, lighting up a butt, and the most annoying, loud talking. If they want to hold the fans at a high standard, then the venues should reflect that direction. The atmosphere in a club will differ than if you're playing Carngie Hall. I think everyone needs to lighten up a bit. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 14:00:39 +0604 From: Alain Proulx Subject: TE 774-Alain Proulx Oh my god, I really didn't want to start that mega debate. First of all, I'd like to say to Mr. Colburn that I enjoy the way the music goes now. I do have lots of respect for Mr. Fripp. I think he is in right to ask for a certain atmosphere when he is in creation. BUT, in the real world with real people (over than two thousand) there are strong chances to find an imbecile. I am according with Fripp about flashes, it's really disturbing cause it hurts the concert itself. So, I understand that Fripp can be in anger. According to the critics and myself, the Montreal concert has really been a great one. Ok, flashes killed the encores. At this time Fripp could stop this show that was dead cause the artist was no more in state to create. But, because the whole crowd (apart one or two lads) has been respectfull during the show and knowing that most of them lined up for some hours in a very deep cold in front of the venue, they (we) deserved to be waved at the end by the artist they paid to see. The show was OVER, waving the crowd was just a sing of a shared respect. I really think that the crowd deserved it. This is over music and concerts, over ethics of creation, this is just good manners. And waving the crowd despite of his frustration and his anger would have been a great lesson from the master. This is only a point of view. I think now we could discuss and speculate about something much more interesting: the future of the KING. A. Proulx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 13:33:50 -0600 From: "Music Street Journal Gary Hill" Subject: BLS Review Bozzio Levin Stevens-Situation Dangerous is one of the new reviews at Music Street Journal. That review, and all the others can be found at Music Street Journal http://www.musicstreetjournal.com. Thanks Gary Gary Hill Music Street Journal http://www.musicstreetjournal.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 14:51:34 -0500 From: badams2 at guilford dot edu Subject: Philly Set List Hello all, I was wondering if someone who went to the first show in Philly could post, or e-mail me the set list. Unfortunately I wasn't able to attend the first show, but I highly enjoyed the second show. Also on a side note, I posted my gig review for the second show, and I mentioned a new arrangement for Frakctured, and it turned out that Pat went a couple measures ahead of Robert causing him to pause. I just thought it was them adding more "danger" to the shows. Oh well, still loved it : ) Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 14:52:03 -0500 From: Ryan D Tassone Subject: I just had a weird thought... Contracts (and Fripp's sense of the appropriate) wouldn't allow this, but...imagine if King Crimson launched something to the ring of "ProjeKct G," to explore the possibilities of working as a backup group to other artists. Namely, Peter Gabriel. Think of it...Bruford has played with him, Levin has played with him, Fripp has played with him! Just to play for like two weeks at some clubs, with Peter singing "Waiting Man," followed by "Here Comes the Flood." It's a silly fantasy, yeah, but...I'm silly. Another thing I wish for sometimes, given the appearance of "Neurotica" on 1995 live Crimson setlists, I wonder if "Dig Me" would seem like a possibility? It's not so much the verses that I'm interested in, but the refrain...whenever I listen to Adrian sing "I don't wanna die in here," I think of how intriguingly it related to the band's position at that point in the 80's. Things were getting a little more stale, and it sounded like Adrian was writing about just that: a cessation of vital energy. To perform that now, in the style that some have called the most hyper and supercharged of any Crimson incarnation and others have called dead boring, would create an interesting tension. Again, that's just what I'd do if I were in control, which I'm fortunately not. Speaking of which, I heard rumors that Adrian wrote "Frame by Frame" about Robert. The only thing I can gleam from the lyrics is an unwillingness on Belew's part to succumb to Fripp's more heavy-headed intellectual approach, after being with Talking Heads making animal noises. Come to think of it, before I heard that rumor, I had absolutely no idea what the song was about, and I'm still probably wrong (this ain't Fleetwood Mac). So, can anyone tell me their interpretations of "Frame by Frame?" Lastly, I remember hearing some ET'ers saying "Nah, Fripp doesn't NEED an E-Bow; it's all technique." Well, maybe until the 90's it was, when he began using Fernandes Sustainer guitars, with BUILT-IN E-bow-like (wow, lots of hyphens) electronics. That means infinite sustain, while still playing with a conventional pick. Oops. "Elephant Talk," verse "R," inspired by the current electoral crisis! Talk, talk, it's only talk Resignation Or did he mean "resonation?" Riddles Recapitulation: Recounts, recounts, recounts, recounts! Republicans Redundancy Rattlesnake talk President talk? PRESIDENT talk? PRESIDENT TALK? Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 14:10:15 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Opinions and the Double Duo The long running conversation regarding whether or not the latest Crimson is "good" or not has, for me, run its course of interest. This is not a call for Toby to "stop" the subject, but the conversation is repetitive, as each side continues to express the same opinons (something I am always interested in hearing ... at first) as if they are presenting facts (which they are not). As the conversation falls into each side calling each other fanboys, I would like to offer some observations: 1. Opinions of others who share an interest with us are worth sharing. Opinions that can be explained are more interesting than those that cannot be. 2. TCofL is not an inherently good or bad thing. It is the fruit of a group's labor which can be responded to by the listener. The response is neither right nor wrong. This does not mean that the response is not interesting, only that it is subjective and therefore not factual. If you believe you are The One Who Knows, congratulations on having so high opinion of yourself, but life must be very frustrating. ;) So ... I like Heavy ConstuKction more than TCofL. Why? Because I believe these musicians, like every Crimson before them, are more loose and inventive live, and that fits my taste. Further, I prefer the Double Duo to the Double Trio. Why? Maybe because the D. T. was, as is often suggested, crowded. But the bottom line is I like the instumentals and improvs more. On the other hand, I like the instrumentals and/or improvs of 72-74 and early 80s KC more than the D. D's, and therefore like those eras better than the current era. None of this is important, but it is another opinion: one you may assume from someone who prefers the instrumentals (bring back the ProjeKcts!). Jealous of New Yorkers having Soundscapes for lunch, Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 15:16:31 -0500 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: It hits the fan in ET #777 Several posters decided to take Mr. Richard Warner to task in ET #777 for having the audacity to express opinions different than those aparently accepted by decree to be the "right" ones. (Richard-- how dare you!!) One poster even asked, "I wonder what he's doing here?" (And please note-- I do not mean to chastize anyone in particular; I mean no individual offense.) To which an obvious answer presents itself. He's trying to express some heartfelt sentiments after 30 years of fandom, and for his troubles he is receiving the predictable point-by-point dissection and refutation of his post, courtesy of the notoriously anal-retentive Crim fan base. And am I the only one who finds this "move on" thing to be patronizing, offensive, and contemptuous? (Yes, I know, I can see it now-- as this very post is picked apart in ET #779, I myself will be told maybe I ought to "move on.") Moving on is the coward's way out. Me, I suggest that if you find yourself less than thrilled by the turn Crim's music has taken of late, STICK AROUND! Speak up! Make your voice heard! Or else, as each new release alienates at least some of the ever-dwindling (by definition, as so many are forced to "move on" after each release) Crim fanbase, eventually said fan base is going to disappear up its own asshole. I for one thought that-- regardless of what one might have to say about the choice of words in Mr. Warner's post-- he brought up an interesting point about the dark nature of Crim's music, from the ProjeKcts on. Is this just the Yang to the Yin of Mata Kudesi or Sheltering Sky or Heartbeat? A continuation of a dark strain that has been present since Schitzoid Man? A new exploration of the dark side, which can often resonate with people deep within? Or is it a symptom of something, like a dream that once revealed tells more about the dreamer than perhaps he intended. I suspect that Mr. Warner postulates the latter. Me, I have no freaking idea. But I find myself just a little embarrassed as a Crim fan when someone who raises these questions is dismissed in so cavalier a fashion as to be told to "move on." Sticking around, Josh from NY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 15:12:54 EST From: Wilcox660 at aol dot com Subject: Krimson Kraziness Hi - Isn't it all grand? KC & it's various members recording & performing together & separately. Lovely time to have ears. By the way - the Zappa / Fripp connection is clear & obvious: both have "pp" in their last names. PS - Listen to everything all the time! Love from John A.Wilcox ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 20:40:52 -0000 From: "Lee Fletcher" Subject: CENTROZOON : Update (New Website) Dear ETers, Here's the latest news from Markus Reuter and Co. This week sees the launch of a newly improved official CENTROZOON website, which resides at http://www.centrozoon.de. The public production continues to make waves as 'The Cult Of: Bibbiboo' edges ever closer to her final form. But there's still time to enter 'the cult' and bestow your whims upon producer Derek Difilippo... Here are some of the new interactive goodies on offer:- * Diary - attempt to make sense of Bibbiboo's daily musings, or touch her spirit by posting your unanswered questions to The Oracle... * Bibbiboo Photo Galleries - "Who the hell is bibbiboo?" Check-out the models and vote ;-) * The Shrine - enthusiasts and supporters can now purchase CENTROZOON merchandise (CD's, T-shirts, etc.) directly from the official shop. And don't forget the Naming Contest, which is now fully underway. Check out the latest (MP3 / RealAudio) mixes, and submit your entries... The winning authors will ultimately see their titles in print on the ensuing album, as well as receiving a T-shirt and 'Blast' CD. If you missed my original post and are consequently wondering "who? / what? / why?", then my advice to you, as always, is to point your browser towards http://www.centrozoon.de and sample the divine beast first hand :-) We hope to see you there. Regards, Lee Fletcher. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 16:29:51 -0500 From: "Brown, Ken" Subject: Kong/Djam Karet/Ankh Was it Markus who thought groups that might interest the Crim collective be discussed? That is a great idea and wish it was done more on this list! Well so I'm going to do it! Kong, the beast from the Netherlands! I find it hard to believe no one as ever mentioned these dudes! I can't believe I heard so little about them in prog circles! Kong is a 4pc (2 gtr,b/d with some keys and samples) that started back in 88/89. They were recommended to me by the bass player from Djam Karet. Their early music was very angular, dissonant affair similar to Djam Karet of the time. But now I can also compare it to Thrakking era Crim. On the later cds they have added keys and samples and their music as matured but still rocks hard. Check them out at www.kong.nl. Their early cds could be hard to find since the label is out of business, but check www.gemm,com . I found the very hard to find Push Comes to Shove there for a $1.50!! Djam Karet, are there people who don't know them? Certainly shouldn't be, they are a 4pc (twin gtr, bass, drum, keys and samples, hmm sounds like Kong!) from out in California. They have been together in one form or another since the early 80s. Their first cd "Reflection from the Firepool" I got for $5 from Musician mag! These guys are very angular bunch, sort of Crim crossed with Floyd? Well that is the way they have been described. These guys have two distinct sides, a very ambient side and another that rocks. Recommends to start would be either Reflections, the Live Orion CD and for the more adventuresome check Still No Commercial Potential a disc of live improv jams. Check them out at www.djamkaret.com The last band I would recommend to the Crimfan is Ankh from Poland. I believe they are a 5pc, although there are seven names mentioned in the CD, not being able to read Polish is a hindrance. This band reminds me of 70era Crim, (oh I can see people perking up now!) Why? Mostly cuz of the use of the violin as a lead instrument. I won't say the guitarist sounds like Fripp though, so don't buy it thinking that it is Crim sounding. These guys have similar sound to Crim but do not sound like Crim. On Bedzie Tajemnica they even do a version of 21CSM that has this low-fi approach and they get the words wrong, but it rocks! As far as I can tell they have only 2 cds out and both are very good. You'd have to contact you local prog dealer for these puppies as they do not have a Website (that I know of) This band shows you what a great world the net as brought about. They are a Polish band on a Brazilian label! Ya got to love it! Keep the Faith (in the music) ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 22:31:38 +0100 From: "Van Polly uit modern St. Paul's"

Subject: Re: 6 degrees of seperation Adding to the link Bacharach-KC Bacharach writing for The Carpenters covering The Beatles also covered by Zappa playing with Belew of King Crimson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 23:13:53 +0100 From: "Lukasz Drozd" Subject: Pictures of Fripp in Hello magazine > From RF's diary: >"put out the Hello magazine, spread with fabbo pictures of us at home in > Deepest Dorset" > >Anyone knows if these pictures are available online? > They are! On CRIMPAGE - Polish King Crimson Website of which I am a Webmaster :-) Anyone who wants to see it is invited to CRIMPAGE at http://www.crimpage.prv.pl Click on "Zdjecia", then "Robert Fripp", then on "Toyah Willcox", and there you go! (a friend of mine scanned them, so he may have more of them - you can write to him at pzlotko at amwaw dot edu dot pl) Hope I was useful :-) Greetings Lukasz Drozd drozd at pro dot onet dot pl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 04:07:34 From: "Jorge Landa" Subject: The Next Concerts on Mexico Hi there: As the must people in Mexico must know, there'll be some good concerts in the next months: This December: The Flower Kings On January 27: Peter Hamill February 24: Finisterre April (no date): Camel And who knows, maybe someone else... See ya... Landa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 04:21:24 From: "Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Alves" Subject: Re: Any Fripp/Zappa Connections Just a quick one: Besides Ade, Eddie Jobson played with Zappa for a while. He also gave some "remix assistance" in the KC's "USA" album and played with Wetton and Brufford's UK. OK, this was my first humble post. Sorry for any mistakes... Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 01:44:22 -0500 From: Greg Graves Subject: Question Hi: Does anyone know where I might find a cd copy of A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson (mid-70's)? Thanks. Greg Graves, M.A. Principal, JBL Inc. 1355 Bank Street, Suite 402 Ottawa, Ontario K1H 8K7 613-233-0921 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 00:04:52 -0500 From: "Robert C. Parducci (legend)" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Soundscapes at the World Financial Center, 11/30 @ 6:30 PM A fine performance which lasted about one hour. At the beginning of the show John Schaefer announced by that the concert would later be broadcast on WNYC (93.9 FM) sometime in January 2001. John also had kind words to say about the entire series of six concerts, which he described as a journey. Robert arrived on stage and greeted the audience, left, center and right. The audience was attentive and played their part well. Robert met or exceeded our expectations. The first soundscape was introduced by a several bell-like tones from the guitar, perhaps to test the water. What followed was a gradually built tapestry of tones and timbres, gently wafting through the space. I took full advantage of the opportunity to shut my eyes and relax, allowing the sound to wash away the noise one typically encounters during a day in NYC. The second piece was presented in similar fashion. There seemed to be an element of digital noise or clipping during the piece that must be an artifact of the technology Robert uses. I have my doubts that this is a deliberate effect. About halfway through the second piece there was a short moment of silence, then Robert continued on. The piece finally ended with a swooshing stereo effect, and it was over. A standing ovation, marred by some thoughtless flash photography. [Off-topic] As an added bonus, before the show I managed to catch sight of the Voyeur Bus on Broadway. Ten strippers wearing nothing more than thongs and smiles pressed ham and waved to pedestrians from the bus as part of WNEW's (102.7) WOW promotion. Without a doubt, it lifted everyone's spirits. LEGEND: In Our Own Time http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rcp/ ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #778 ********************************