Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #777 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 777 Friday, 1 December 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: Krimson News added to ET Web pages for PDAs Re: 6 degrees of seperation PCCK: Nick Grimson will continue Re: Toyah & Fripp/6 degrees (Chelsea Snelgrove) Six Degrees and More Re: Christmascapes? & Mushrooms? The Road Not Taken Richard Warner post in ET 775 King Crimson and Burt Bacharach Re: Post by Richard Warner, ET#775 Fayman & Fripp Re: TE 774 - Alain Proulx KC to Burt B, 4 degrees ProjeKcting Re: Any Fripp/Zappa Connections Heavy maConstruKction Young Whippersnappers Don't Know What a Good Thing They Have the view of cool Fripp To Bacharach GIG REVIEW: 11/29/00: RF @ Winter Garden,World Financial Center,NYC GIG REVIEW: John Wetton in Mexico City - Nov 29, 2000 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:29:48 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: Krimson News added to ET Web pages for PDAs Just wanted to let people know that the continuing partnership between Krimson News (http://www.krimson-news.com/) and ET Web has led to a Krimson News page being added to ET Web's pages for PDAs, accessible directly by wireless devices at: http://www.elephant-talk.com/digests/pda/etmain.shtml or through AvantGo.com's channel service (see the ET Web for PDA instruction page at http://www.elephant-talk.com/pda.htm) Krimson News has become the premier place for daily news on matters Krimson, and related bands and artists. ET Web remains the premier resource for just about everything else, with the help of many, many contributors and sister sites. We have already added Krimson News headlines to ET Web's main page, so it was a logical step to add a Krimson News page to our PDA pages. I hope current users like the new feature, and encourage PDA owners to check out the Elephant Talk channel at AvantGo, where you can get the latest tour date info, and most recent ET newsletter as well. Cheers, Dan ET Web Krimson News Correspondant ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:07:07 -0600 From: "Jill Bye" Subject: Re: 6 degrees of seperation > Here's a "six degrees of separation" puzzle for you: King Crimson and > Burt Bacharach. Any takers? Well, I'm not totally sure about this but I'm gonna say 1.Burt Bacharach 2. Elvis Castello 3.and then some punk type band maybe David Byrne or Debbie Harry 4. and something like Andy Summers or Brian Eno (cause Eno's involved in EVERYTHING somehow) 5.then Fripp Also, if someone wouldn't mind too much could you please post the set list for the Miwaukee Wisconsin Nov. 2, 2001 show. I was fortunate enough to see it but can't exactly remember the order of the songs played. Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:57:50 -0800 (PST) From: Schizoid Man Subject: PCCK: Nick Grimson will continue In the last ET letter Christian noticed: >...Paul doesn't like the idea of the KC-Ebay taskforce proposed on ET, but why >not? These are fans wanting to help out the band/DGM who cannot be all >places at once. Who else would do it? DGM? Should they pay someone to >sniff out illegal sales and add to their costs and cause the prices of >legitimate releases to rise, thus affecting probably everyone reading this? Hey Christian thank you, you've perfectly described my goal. ( As I'm not a native english speaker it's sometimes difficult for me to express my thoughts precisely.) Sorry Paul but I've received some real mails by real crimso fans thanking me to have communicated real information about fake products. Paul is for me the archetype of the vampiric odious fan: he wants, he demands, " f**ckin Fripp..",etc. For him artists are too much rich people, and because we are contributing to their income,we have rights on them and we can do all we want with them, that's sound to me like an old communist class-struggle theory revisited by a moron: stupid. He wrote to me "let artist's lawyers do this job",: That's maybe right for ordinary shark-companies, but it's stupid to let a so well oriented company as DGM add this to their cost (as Christian said). I'm 40, I am marketing director (but not in the music business, I love music too much) and I think my professional competences could be usefull to people who may be cannot or don't want pay for services as I can provide. I've decided to be usefull to DGM, because I'm a long-time KC Lover and I really appreciate the way DGM want to do business. The first way I've choosen is the PCCK (Protekction court of the...;-) ? Its aKCtions are may be puerile but it's only the first part of my plan. For me writing in a fan newsletter is a hard task because 1)I'm not considering me as a fan(atic), 2)discussing subjective topics appears me frequently vain 3)I think we have all different reasons to love KC wich are not necessarely compatible (love include exclusion). But I don't like people with only passive and negative attitudes who are always waiting for something they never contribute to do nor to improve. I don't like people who only do sterile comments but never help to construct. I'm aKCting because I want DGM to resist to the major companies oppression. I'm aKCting because I want DGM to continue to do things as issuing, some weeks after a fantastic tour, a fantastic triple CD with video (Heavy Construction) and with tracks from the concert where I was and may be tomorow the whole gig or the whole tour. IS THERE A MAJOR COMPANY WHO CAN DO THAT ? I don't know one. So I'll continue. Best regards to all my ET friends and especially to Tobby (who aKCts) and Christian (who ReaKcts) Nick Grimson - Nick Grimson at yahoo dot com- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:49:53 -0000 From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: Re: Toyah & Fripp/6 degrees (Chelsea Snelgrove) Burt Bacharach has played with Elvis Costello Elvis Costello has played with Bill Frisell Bill Frisell has played with David Torn David Torn has played with Bill Bruford (or Tony Levin) Bill Bruford (or Tony Levin) were in King Crimson Or you could go another way round and say.. Bill Frisell has played with David Torn David Torn has played with Steve Jansen Steve Jansen has played with David Sylvian David Sylvian has played with Robert Fripp Robert Fripp is in King Crimson (in this one you can cut out steve jansen and go straight to Sylvian) Or the other way... Bill Frisell has played with David Torn David Torn has played with Mick Karn Mick Karn has played with Richard Barbieri Richard Barbieri is in Porcupine Tree Porcupine Tree toured with Dream Theater Dream Theater played with Steve Howe at the Fan Club Show in Birmingham Steve Howe is in Yes with Jon Anderson Jon Anderson sung on Lizard by King Crimson There are several ways. Old Burt is actually one of the easiest links, but it all goes through Elvis Costello and Bill Frisell it seems. If anyone can do a different one, please tell me. Cameron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 18:08:22 -0800 (PST) From: Martin Bailey Subject: Six Degrees and More How about this King Crimson>Robert Fripp, who plays occasionally with>David Sylvian, who also recorded with>Bill Frisell, who has recorded the instrumental version of Painted From Memory, Burt Bacharach/Elvis Costello record. My thoughts on the new Crim, I saw the first TLA show in Philadelphia, recently and I stood near the front, and I was very impressed. I was really spending most of the time watching the interplay of Trey and Pat, and they were WICKED! They play much differently than Tony and Bill and yet these guys work hard. They deserve more credit they what they get from the Crimheads. I also think that Fripp selects his band mates according to what he hears in his head. His modus operandi is pretty similar to Miles Davis. If Miles didn't think you were contributing much to the music, he would take your horn out of your mouth, stare at you, replace the player or the entire band. Effectively Fripp had done that by not asking Tony and Bill to play now. Fripp wants the music to be fresh, and also allow enough time to explore "the sound." If you really want to get into this version of Crim, suspend your expectations. I do have a problem with the way TOCOL sounds. The recording is SHIT. I think the blame is with Ken Latchney, not the V-Drums. How come the drums sound great when Pat M. and Bill Munyon do the engineering and mixing? Thats all, for now...... Martin B. thrakmail at yahoo dot com "PLAY CAT FOOD!!!!!!!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 21:54:57 -0500 From: David Beardsley Subject: Re: Christmascapes? & Mushrooms? Sylvan wrote: > The "2000 Festival of Light and Sound" series of art and music > performances at the World Financial Center will kick off holiday > festivities tomorrow with the Winter Garden lighting ceremony. One hundred > thousand lights will be strung among the 50-foot palm trees (like the ones > pictured below) and around the vaulted glass atrium. And it looks so cool too. I just caught the 1st two nights of Frippscapes. I liked the 1st night better. Some thoughts... As I walked down the stairs on Tues. night, I see this guy pointing his video camera at the ceiling and panning around the place. I get to the bottom of the stairs and notice that Robert Fripp is sitting about 6-10 feet away from this guy. I know he likes to sit out in the audience sometimes before the show. I still smile when I think of this! The show starts with RF walking across the back of the stage and then towards the front by his rack. The crowd applauds the person and then he walks around the rack to sit down and work at his chosen trade. The 'scapes range from calm beauty to swirling terror, but... The old man needs to work on his synthesis a bit. He's using too many of the same sounds all the time. Tonight a bit of electronic snaps and ticks crept into the mix. After they didn't disapear, he reaches over and tweeks a knob on one of the Eventides, slowing it down until just noisey wooshyness is flying from right to left. Pretty cool. He fades that out until there is just a quiet drone. He then starts slowly playing a beautiful melody, quite foreign sounding. I'm suprised! He's played something fresh that I've never heard before. The patch is nothing special, but the melody sure is. But he doesn't loop it. Instead he dials up the same string sound with some kind of can quetly bashing around in the background. The same patch he's been using for two days 90% of the time. Anywayz, the show ends. People start applauding. The Fripp unit sets down his guitar and walks behind his rack to stage front and applauds the audience. I saw lots of flash at the first concert, apparently his El Frippiness, the Fripp One didn't notice it being too engaged with Frippnosity at the time. "T.J. Mathews" wrote: > Pat had this > rather large silvered colored disk object sort of mushroom shaped to his > left that as far as I could tell was covered in small white knobs. Looked > like a space ship to me. Any clues what it is? Maybe a Roland Handsonic? nada brahma, db -- * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y * 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time" * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 00:01:15 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: The Road Not Taken Greets, Why has there been no mention of the Nashville Rehearsals cd? This is the prototype of what the Collector's Club should be. A cd of amazing music in a form that could never be assembled for general release. This discarded sketch pad makes one pause to think what might have been. The double duo is great but there are moments here where you just go, "Damn! I wish they would have finished that idea." Big Funk is the reason all bands should have two drummers, at least once in awhile. Jimmy Bond is an undeniable gas. It sounds like it could really be incidental music in a Bizzarro 007 flick. There is more guitar soloing in the conventional sense on this cd than on any ProjeKct or on the Vroom Sessions. The Light/Heavy Construkction theme is explored in half a dozen variations. Some work and some don't, but it is interesting to see where they started to eventually end up with ConstruKction of Light. Sad Woman Jam is the melodic moment TCOL so desperately needed. It really shoud have been finished. Anyway, that's enough rambling for one night. If you passed on this for some reason try to get them to send it to you. This is truly a must have for any fan of the adventurous instrumental side of the band. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:16:30 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Richard Warner post in ET 775 Sorry, but that post was so biased I could not resist answering. >ball of light blotting out your vision - THINK PEOPLE! But Fripp's way of >handling these situations is childish AT BEST. Maybe you should carefully read the contents of Kicking the Wasp's Nest (http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.com/diary/responses-RobertFripp.shtml). Mr. Fripp's way of handling the situation may not be consensual, but the world "childish" indicates clear underinformation on your part. >(read, self-absorbed), and UTTERLY joyless curmudgeon whom I believe would >be best suited to staying OUT of public life COMPLETELY. The only I profoundly disagree. Nobody in this forum is sufficiently informed to tell if Mr. Fripp is joyless or not. This is obvious self-projection. And I want him to stay in public life, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. More appropriately, Mr. Fripp should stay out of Mr. Warner's life. So you know the answer... Move on. >For a man who constantly speaks of 'redemption' and 'grace' there is >precious little of it in the music he has recently offered the 'world', Well, this just goes to show you probably don't hear this music the way I do. Or we don't have the same definition for 'redemption' and 'grace'. I'll just say that FraKctured and COL perfectly and entirely fit my own definitions. Far more than most of KC's previous work. >that is claustrophobically lacking even a single breath. TCOL is the aural >equivalent of the armoured spasm and breath holding of an extreme fit of >anger or hatred, the hallmarks of a mind that has completely caved into Well, assuming Mr. Fripp is the only one responsible for the aural shape of TCOL is incredibly rude to Ade, Trey and Pat >Perhaps I am a bit dim, but I find the light very hard to see amidst all the >apocalyptic construKction. You said it. Light is a wavelength range, and some of us are optically challenged. But denying light just because you don't see just reveals you are living in some kind of b... :-)))) >Mr. Fripp no longer deserves the personal respect and admiration that his >admirers have been giving him of late, and of the support of his more >professional and healthily grounded band mates. Well, at least he deserves mine more and more. As for his bandmates, who are you to feel entitled to speak for them? And have you ever read Trey's diaries? ___ Laurent Masse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:03:00 -0000 From: "Jonathan Pinnock" Subject: King Crimson and Burt Bacharach Chelsea Snelgrove wrote: >Here's a "six degrees of separation" puzzle for you: King Crimson and >Burt Bacharach. Any takers? Now that's an easy one: Burt Bacharach worked with Elvis Costello recently Elvis Costello wrote "Shipbuilding" Robert Wyatt sang "Shipbuilding" Robert Fripp worked with Robert Wyatt on numerous occasions (Matching Mole, Centipede, etc.) Robert Fripp is in etc. etc. As you can see, we've actually got room for one more link, so maybe a more challenging question would have been to connect, say, the Carpenters (frequent interpreters of Burt B songs) with King Crimson. Which leads me to wonder about another of those lost demo sessions. Can't you just hear Karen screeching out "Cat's Foot, Iron Claw!"? So my question to DGM is: WHEN IS IT GOING TO APPEAR ON THE KCCC? Actually, these days, I'd settle for ANYTHING from the KCCC ... Cheers everyone, Jon Pinnock www.jpassoc.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 04:02:20 -0800 From: good1 Subject: Re: Post by Richard Warner, ET#775 > From: "Richard Warner" > Subject: Re: TE 774 - Alain Proulx. > I've been an ET subscriber for just a few weeks, > I'm not the spokesman for the group, but welcome to the new guy. (In fact, I hardly contribute to the group at all.) First off, let it be said that by this I am not trying to make any enemies here. > Post after post relates the sad stories of Mr. Fripp's petulant, little > temper tantrums because of some disturbance in the audience. Mr. Proulx's > post nailed it RIGHT ON THE HEAD, Mr. Fripp is indeed being rude to a house > full of people who've attentively and admiringly listended, and who HAVE NOT > transgressed any actual or perceived 'boundaries', by stomping out like > Rumpelstiltskin becuse of one idiot. I agree with him and Mr. Proulx that > flash photography is disruptive, even dangerous to a performer. Simple - try > to watch your fingers or change settings on a effects device with a huge > ball of light blotting out your vision - THINK PEOPLE! But Fripp's way of > handling these situations is childish AT BEST. And you're here to right things. Let's see here-a Rumpelstiltskin reference is going to gain much respect from RF...I personally haven't really thought of this child's tale for at least 30 years. That's some name-calling. Good going! > Over the years Mr. Fripp has gone from being a dazzlingly bright, eloquent > and open-minded artist of impeccable integrity to a dogmatic, eccentric > (read, self-absorbed), and UTTERLY joyless curmudgeon whom I believe would > be best suited to staying OUT of public life COMPLETELY. The only > emotional tenor that seems to arise out his public statements is that of > vitriolic condescension and contempt. This seemingly intelligent-sounding gentleman is really working up to something here... > Even the recent music (TCOL) reflects the 'rigor mortis' of a mental > attitude that was once one of exploration into the darknesses of the > unknown. Ever since his adoption of Gurdjieff's and Bennett's philosophies, > he has surrendered the brilliance, fearlessness and the DARING to admit the > real 'unknowing' of the mysteries of existence, to the 'sureness' of a > formidably profound, yet intellectually dogmatic view that has little > tolerance for the simple foibles of human beings, that is - it lacks > compassion. Fripp's misanthropy finds justification there and it is rather > sad and disappointing, and at times, it can be monstrously hateful. I can't cite day and time, but I recall RF being into these philosophies for quite some time by now. Has anyone else here stopped liking any great majority of the music he or she has heard from his camp over the years? I'm not expecting total drooling devotion here, 'cause I personally have my favorites and even an occasional personal dislike, but really now - what's this guy's beef? Why the personal attacks? Of course, we are all entitled to our opinions.....Reading on: > For a man who constantly speaks of 'redemption' and 'grace' there is > precious little of it in the music he has recently offered the 'world', > ignoring the delicacy, taste and refinement that he is so completely capable > of, (viz his work with Sylvian) in favour of the angry and demonic hammering > that is claustrophobically lacking even a single breath. TCOL is the aural > equivalent of the armoured spasm and breath holding of an extreme fit of > anger or hatred, the hallmarks of a mind that has completely caved into > itself and its childish inability to accept personal disappointment. > Perhaps I am a bit dim, but I find the light very hard to see amidst all the > apocalyptic construKction. This sounds like it's coming from personal experience. A truly dark mind. Ah, but it is not my place to play the analyst. No credentials here. Just my opinion, but the more I experience this music, the more energy and inspiration I derive from it. By way of reference, I can't say I was totally taken by this new offering(TCOL) for several listenings and a live experience, reported upon previously by myself in these pages. I see that as a result of something that was created with a huge personal amount of sweat, rewarding more and more to the listener (me, anyway) through as much listening and sweat. I recall thinking how brilliant RF is as I was watching his fingers fly in concert, and as demonstrated by his conception, incredible amount of hard practice resulting in the (near-)flawless execution, and constant outpouring of material via Projekcts, solo performances offered to the public and via recordings, researching and remastering of older material both catalogue and unofficial and its subsequent release to any of us willing and able to receive it all with hardly a thought to any great financial reward, I'm sure, etc. (Sorry 'bout the huge run-on.) Hey, dude, I saw more smiles come over RF at the HOBLA II show last month, shared among a band passing around just as much pure joy between them and us, the audience, FYI... > Mr. Fripp no longer deserves the personal respect and admiration that his > admirers have been giving him of late, and of the support of his more > professional and healthily grounded band mates. He is resembling Roger > Waters more and more, and that is frightening. I think he would be well > served to disband Crimson and take himself into retreat for several years > to > uncover and release the extreme, deep rage that is eating him and his music > up. And it would be welcome to see this brilliant, but now deeply > disturbed mind, BACK in the actual service of Grace, to see him happy again. > Perhaps, even, for the first time. > > Richard Warner - Toronto. This is a joke, right? I admire RF now, more than ever, and do not believe there to be much rage inside of him. Here is a man at the peak of his game, playing music dear to his heart, and giving tirelessly to anyone willing to enter into his realm. Sorry, Richard, I know you're entitled to your opinions. More sorry that you find no more joy in this music which you are sincerely passionate about and feel let down by in some way. I can't equate the energy and passion, as well as the neverending experimentation with pure sound, both beautiful and, at times, challenging, possibly found to be a bit ugly, with any of the sentiments posed in the diatribes by Mr. Warner. No, I can't speak for all of us, but I know we're not all sycophantic Crimson worshippers here. I read all of these ET's as well, as have I for a few years, now, and I get the tenor of most of the posters to this group. Again, I welcome Richard Warner to our little enclave. I just wonder, what's he doing here? Marc Goodman good1 at pacbell dot net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:55:58 -0800 (PST) From: Timothy Andrew Edwards Subject: Fayman & Fripp The wonderful new Fayman & Fripp release may be previewed at: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/153/fayman__fripp.html Also, Jeffrey is interviewed in this month's FilmScore Monthly (actually the August issue, but it just came out)! Best, Timothy GO.com Mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:55:45 -0600 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Re: TE 774 - Alain Proulx Richard Warner wrote: >I promised myself that I wouldn't do this but I think it is time to take Mr. >Fripp to task. Aw, you promised! :-) >I agree with Fripp and Mr. Proulx that flash photography is disruptive, >even dangerous to a performer. But Fripp's way of handling these situations is childish AT BEST. Part of me for awhile thought that, but I've come to believe that if you wish something from someone, particularly art from an artist, that its not terrible behavior for there to be stipulations. If you don't want it and you don't want to deal with it then don't. I've read Ravi Shankar's autobiography and he crusaded for pretty much the same thing. He wouldn't begin until it became quiet, and he'd stop if there was too much commotion in the audience. All these behaviors asked for are pretty standard for classical music listening so if that atmosphere is what Fripp wants, he has a right to ask for it. It you don't like it, no one is holding a gun to your head to be there. >Even the recent music (TCOL) reflects the 'rigor mortis' of a mental >attitude that was once one of exploration into the darknesses of the >unknown. Ever since his adoption of Gurdjieff's and Bennett's philosophies, >he has surrendered the brilliance, fearlessness and the DARING to admit the >real 'unknowing' of the mysteries of existence, to the 'sureness' of a >formidably profound, yet intellectually dogmatic view that has little >tolerance for the simple foibles of human beings, that is - it lacks >compassion. Fripp's misanthropy finds justification there and it is rather >sad and disappointing, and at times, it can be monstrously hateful. Ach, yer talkin' outcher ass here. As far as I've read Gurdjieff and Bennett became an influence in his life in roughly 1974 or 75. Are you going to say that somehow this influence ONLY came to fruition in 2000 as opposed to the 80's band, Guitar Craft, and Sylvian/Fripp in the early 90's? >For a man who constantly speaks of 'redemption' and 'grace' there is >precious little of it in the music he has recently offered the 'world', >ignoring the delicacy, taste and refinement that he is so completely capable >of, (viz his work with Sylvian) in favour of the angry and demonic hammering >that is claustrophobically lacking even a single breath. Again, see above. Your equating the sound of TCOL to the influence of Gurdjieff is bogus. If your theory were true then that same influence would have been at work in Fripp's work sinde the late 70's including Sylvian/Fripp. Plus where were you for all the other "angry and demonic hammering" on Red, and Exposure, and pieces like Indiscipline, or Threnody for Souls in Torment etc.? >TCOL is the aural >equivalent of the armoured spasm and breath holding of an extreme fit of >anger or hatred, the hallmarks of a mind that has completely caved into >itself and its childish inability to accept personal disappointment. >Perhaps I am a bit dim, but I find the light very hard to see amidst all the >apocalyptic construKction. Are you sure you've listened to KC and Fripp since 1969? The nasty, chromatic, intense vibe has been in KC's music all the long. It IS edgy slightly neurotic music, it always has been! >Mr. Fripp no longer deserves the personal respect and admiration that his >admirers have been giving him of late, and of the support of his more >professional and healthily grounded band mates. Ach, it if bugs you, then go away... You don't get to decide for me or anyone else who deserves my respect and admiration. Beethoven himself was probably often difficult to deal and work with. Does that mean the world should have removed its support and told Beethoven to go away until he "felt" better? Does Beethoven being a grumpy kinda guy make it so that the music world should respect him less? >I think he would be well served to disband Crimson and take himself into >retreat for several years to uncover and release the extreme, deep rage >that is eating him and his music up. And it would be welcome to see this >brilliant, but now deeply disturbed mind, So, uh don't like the new music then? :-) How about you just retreat for several years and quit listening to it? I (and other fans as well) don't share your opinions. I think the process of new music seems very correct and appropriate for this time and place in Crimson's existence. I have no complaints other than knowing that comments like yours will in some small way negatively affect Fripp and the music he is attempting to create. >BACK in the actual service of Grace, to see him happy again. >Perhaps, even, for the first time. Oh man, even using Fripp's own words against him, eh? You don't want him "BACK in the actual service of Grace," you want him back in the service of YOU. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:29:15 -0500 From: M & M Subject: KC to Burt B, 4 degrees > Here's a "six degrees of separation" puzzle for you: King Crimson and > Burt Bacharach. Any takers? I'll give it a go: 1. KC's record label released John Paul Jones' solo album 2. Pete Thomas plays drums. Pete was the drummer for... 3. Elvis Costello, who has collaborated with... 4. Burt Bacharach Yipeeeeeeeeeee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:41:16 EST From: GenoTT at aol dot com Subject: ProjeKcting >Why did actually Adrian Belew only participate in one >of the ProjeKcts, and there only on drums? In none of the >ProjeKcts the Glimmer Twins of guitar world play together. >Any reason? It actually happens on PX: Ade and Robert both play guitar. I believe they were both supposed to play sans drummer on P2 also, but as usual with this group, things took a direction of their own. Why were Fripp & Gunn on every ProjeKct? Why only one with Bruford? (I think it's because the acoustic drum sound clashed somewhat with the tone the music was taking - but then, what do I know..) Why was PX named PX instead of ProjeKct 5? Why have Pat & Adrian (both on percussion) been dubbed ProjeKct D on the last tour? Who knows? Instead of trying to fathom the mind of Fripp, I'm simply thankful that these people keep producing so much wonderful music in any configuration they see fit. Looking forward to next April... -g ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:21:50 -0500 From: "Andrew Fignar Jr." Subject: Re: Any Fripp/Zappa Connections Zappa and Fripp have never played together. In a 1982 Interview I have with Zappa, he didn't even know who Fripp was. Zappa has played with Hendrix twice, and jammed with Roland Kirk before. Lot's of guests through the years like Al Dimeola, and Sting, but never Fripp. Steve Vai and Mike Keneally have played with Fripp during the G3 tours, and they also played for Zappa. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 10:38:16 +1100 From: jeremy keens Subject: Heavy maConstruKction Further to the issue, while the video file is invisible to the finder and to media player 7 (which looks like a cheap version of quicktime), it is not invisible to media player 6.3. Therefore you can open the video directly from the cd with 6.3 (without using a password) and watch it in that. Interestingly, if you also have media player 7 loaded, when you go to open file from that, the list of available files (if you have action files) includes the video so you can then watch it on that player. Jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:42:24 -0600 From: Tom Law Subject: Young Whippersnappers Don't Know What a Good Thing They Have Imagine that its 1977. (Or remember it, if youre a graying old fart like me.) Its 1977, King Crimson has disappeared again, and you dont know if theyll ever return. They have left you 7 studio albums (which youve memorized), 1.5 live albums, a few bootlegs. You got to see them live only once, because its very hard to know about such events if you dont live in a city where the tours go. In fact, you have very little news whatsoever about Fripps work. Anyway, you also have the 2 Fripp/Eno albums, as well as some solo Eno albums with Fripp guesting. Giles/Giles/Fripp. Some Van der Graaf. In the next year or so, the only Fripp youll get is Fade Away and Radiate, Peter Gabriel I, and Walter Steding. You have dreams that King Crimson puts out a 3 LP set of all new material. Youre still about 3 years away from Scary Monsters (YOW YOW!) and Discipline. As a wise and experienced 22-year old, you have learned Some Things About Life, so you figure Fripp is probably some kind of asshole, because anyone that brilliant would HAVE to be. Now, imagine that someone gives you a crystal ball, so that you can look TWENTY-FOUR YEARS INTO THE FUTURE (give-or-take). How will you feel, when you learn that: 1. In the future, there will be an Internet. With it, you can stay abreast of all tour and recording news. You will be able to download live concerts. [Already, you can see that you will be in heaven.] 2. Incredibly, you can see that Fripp is NOT an asshole in any way. He is a Very Likable and Humorous Dude, and tries hard to accommodate reasonable people. He will bring hot coffee to cold fans. He is a wonderful writer. He will even keep an online diary. 3. He will spend a few years fraKctalizing King Crimson into ProjeKcts, spewing out amazing amounts of beautiful experimental ideas-in-progress. Recordings of all of it will be available, so that you can follow the progress of various themes as the band develops them. There will be a FOUR-CD SET of Meaty Research and Development. There will be a THREE-CD SET of live material, half of which is NEW STUFF OF SUBSTANCE. There will be a Collectors Club, where you may receive various recordings of King Crimson concerts, R&D stuff, etc. AMAZING. There will be over 60 KC (and ProjeKct) cds available. [You clearly see that The Future is a Wet Dream, and you dont even know what a cd is.] 4. On some of these ProjeKcts, you will hear some of the finest Fripp guitar of all time. You will even find that Fripp has found a way to play his Sailors Tale low-brass train-like Mellotron of Doom sound on his guitar (ccccSeizurecc), and can even morph it into a guitar sound for More Soloing. Dear God. 5. In spite of all this, there will a Loud Clamor from Unsatisfied Customers, who: a. DONT LIKE THIS NEW STUFF. They are mad at Fripp. b. And they want him to know it. c. He is not doing enough for them. d. And he should be happy to put up with CRAP when performing, because he is a Rock Star. Who does he think he is, a Serious Musician? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:29:25 -0500 From: "T.J. Mathews" Subject: the view of cool Frank C. wrote in part: > Also just saw Fripp perform very dark and foreboding soundscapes... >night 11/28... Very cool save for the annoying children and rude >restaurant patrons. Robert has encouraged soundscape listeners to do anything that they please and not to sit tight lipped and butt taped (my words). He certainly knew that a restaurant was nearby. Did he make any effort to suggest they not be patrons at such? At a Philly show a few years ago I went back behind the seats and played hacky sack. A baby made some noise which upset some listeners while at the same time Robert bled into it peacefully. The annoying and rude mentioned above is yours Frank and imo not his. "Very cool" suggests you didn't miss out entirely. Glad to read it. tj, dc-et2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:50:28 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Fripp To Bacharach I hate myself for getting invoved in one of these six degrees but I couldn't resist: Fripp's work with Daryl Hall, Hall sang with Elvis Costello on "(She's not) the Only Game In Town", Elvis and Burt collaborated on the surprisingly swell "Painted From Memory." Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:05:03 -0500 From: nitrous Subject: GIG REVIEW: 11/29/00: RF @ Winter Garden,World Financial Center,NYC I arrived for the lunchtime RF gig 45 minutes early to find RF sitting in the audience seats absorbing the beautiful ambience of the Winter Garden, located in the World Financial Center, across the street from the World Trade Center in downtown Manhattan. A beautiful setting it is, with giant 50 foot high palm trees and thousands of tiny white Christmas lights shining against a high vaulted glass ceiling revealing a bright blue sky, in the middle of the world's capital center. Certainly a different type of setting one usually hears RF or Crimson music in. RF appeared to be content taking in the scenery, so I didn't disturb him (nor did any of the other early arrivals.) The crowd varied from Crimheads to financial brokers to a 80 year old woman sitting in front of me. At 12:15, Fripp launched into 45 minutes of Frippertronic Soundscapes, mesmerizing the mostly hushed audience. He traveled from the pleasant to the mind provoking dissonant sounds he is well known for producing; by the end of the concert, some looked as if they wished he had finished 25 minutes earlier! He ended the concert smiling to a standing ovation! And not one flashbulb went off! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:04:33 -0600 From: "Jose Fernandez" Subject: GIG REVIEW: John Wetton in Mexico City - Nov 29, 2000 Well, yesterday night we had a piece of KC history here in Mexico. John Wetton played the first of two concerts (I am going tonight as well) and boy was it great. Funny thing, the concert took place in a very small venue, actually a dance hall for approximately 500-600. First thing a Mexican prog band named Metaconciencia (?) warmed the audience for about an hour. Although you can pin point their influences especially in a couple of songs, I have to say that they surprised me... they have plenty command of their instruments (two guitars, bass and drums) and played very fluid arrangements. Hope I can catch them again soon... I don't think I saw a CD in the merchandise booth, but I will look for it again tonight. And then Wetton. It was announced that he would be playing Asia-UK-KC and so he did. He has a very commanding presence on stage, and the other three guys that came with hime (I am sorry but can't remember their names) played as amazingly as demanding can be this type of music. I mean, I would be really scared to have to play Fripp-Holdsworth-Howe parts or Brufford-Palmer drumming!! And they did very nicely, adding their own personal touch. They opened with Red... I did not know that he was playing it. Amazing. I have always wanted to hear that song live with that middle section played by him. and wow! Very intense. He played some Asia and U:K. and then Book of Saturday, later Easy Money and closes the night with Starless. This last one in particular was played with sheer intensity and really captured me (and everybody else). What amazed me the most though, was how well his voice is still doing after all these years. He has the same power that can be heard on TGD for example. And don't get me started with that bass!! My brother is a bass player himself and was asking me how he develops that tone!! I can't wait for tonight to be there again. JF ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #777 ********************************