Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #776 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 776 Thursday, 30 November 2000 Today's Topics: Philly Highlights The neverending USA/Earthbound/Pre'90 outtakes CD issue Heavy ConstruKction Video Woes on Macs Montreal: Apologize Any Fripp/Zappa Connections? 'The Lady or the Tiger' Broadcast Toronto Gig Press Review - Sturm und Drang Drummer looking for KC - like band in SF Bay area Pic Search CLUB #12 11/4 Cleveland Set List Taking Fripp to task The Rubber Bass and David Sylvian Heavy Construction is a must have! Re: 6 degrees of Burt deja VROOOM DVD David Cross " Exiles" GIG REVIEW: ?????? GIG REVIEW: A lunch-size portion of Soundscapes ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:51:27 EST From: DonnonMurray at aol dot com Subject: Philly Highlights I've been meaning to post but haven't got around to it. Aside from great music, here are my personal highlights from the second night in Philladelphia: 1.) Robert Fripp blowing the powder off his guitar neck after FraKctured 2.) Robert Fripp mock-hanging himself after some half-wit screams for "Easy Money" 3.) Robert Fripp putting his thumbs in his ears and sticking his tongue out at the audience while coming out for a second encore. Priceless moments of hilarity. Almost as funny as my boss calling me the morning of the show, asking if I could work that night. (Now THAT was funny.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:28:44 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: The neverending USA/Earthbound/Pre'90 outtakes CD issue >PS: The real answer is for f**king Fripp to release this stuff.Would'nt you >agree?!?! Definitely, but unfortunately USA and Earthbound DO NOT BELONG TO DGM. They were part of the EG catalogue sold to Virgin in 1990. So to finally see USA/Earthbound/other pre'90 outtakes released on CD, you have to CONVINCE VIRGIN that there is a general public out there waiting for it. But DGM CAN NOT DO ANYTHING for this. ___ Laurent Masse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:15:39 +0000 From: David Marshall Subject: Heavy ConstruKction Video Woes on Macs At 8:03 am +0000 28/11/00, David Marshall wrote: >Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:28:36 EST >From: DanKirkd at aol dot com >Subject: Heavy ConstruKction Video Woes on Macs > >I was wondering if any Mac users who have been able to view the video on >Heavy ConstruKction could email me about what it was they needed to do to get >it working. (I am assuming that some of you have been successful.) > >I continue to get emails from people using Macs or iMacs or G4 machines who >cannot even get their computer to recognize the CD ROM has any files on it, >and as I am not a Mac user myself I have little ability to help out. > >If I can get some kind of cookbook answer together from the responses I will >of course update the instruction page I've posted at DGM Web. > >Thanks in advance, > >Dan >DGM and ET Web I have got the Video to work on an older MAC G3 running MAC OS 9.0 I also have a G3 500 MhZ Powerbook and at home a 233 Mhz Beige Mac both running MAC OS 9.0.4 BOTH OF WHICH DO NOT RECOGNISE THE CD. the solution I copied the video on my old mac onto another CD-ROM. This now runs on all my macs. I assumed it must be some driver/extensions problem on MAC OS 9.0.4 BUT THEN A mate tried it in is Graphite G4 (running OS 9.1 beta) and this worked. I nicked the 9.1 drivers/extensions but this DID not solve the problem. Unless some CD/DVD Hardware/Firmware differs accross the platforms? SO I am at a loss as to a general remedy. BUT on some MACS IT DOES work and the Video is well worth seeing -- a little small but you see Fripp burn and the sound is good. Two gripes here. 1. WHy bother with the stupid and limited password entry system. It is not secure and you have to wait a day to see the stuff when you paid good money. 2. If they used the quicktime format then cross platform support would be much better. The Media player is not as good. The remember shakti video CD-ROM (quicktime) is better for a comparison. yours dav e marshall -- Dr David Marshall Senior Lecturer Department of Computer Science Cardiff University E-Mail: dave at cs dot cf dot ac dot uk PO Box 916, Phone: +44(0)29 2087 5318 (Direct) CARDIFF CF24 3XF, Phone: " " 4812 (Office) Wales, UK. Fax: " " 4598 WWW URL: http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/People/Dave.Marshall.html Check out My Music Web Site: http://dave.cs.cf.ac.uk/music Enjoy yourself because you can't change anything anyway (Jenny Holzer:Truisms) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:56:54 +0604 From: Alain Proulx Subject: Montreal: Apologize In the previous issue I criticised Fripp cause he didn't come back to salute the crowd. So, after reading the diary I must admit there were couples of things I ignored. The guy talking to the phone right in front of the stage and the cup of beer are two things completely unacceptable. I was told also that people were smoking all around. I am very sorry of these things and finally the flashes at the end..... Don't know what to say, it seems so hard to have a good and respectfull public. Anyway, I did my part like lots of others to contribute to construKct a good and memorable show. I would just like you Robert to have a thought for us too. Hoping to hear you soon again. Al ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:31:40 EST From: ChalkPie88 at aol dot com Subject: Any Fripp/Zappa Connections? Hello Fripp/Zappa Heads: I'm just a little curious if any of you know of any Fripp/Zappa connections (besides Adrian playing with both). I have never read an interview from either guy that even mentions the other guy. One thing that sparked my interest in this matter (besides the fact that I think Zappa and Fripp are both incredible) is the sinister witch's laugh at the end of "Easy Money" on LTiA. On the tune "Drowning Witch" from Ship Arriving Too Late To Save a Drowning Witch by Zappa, there is a VERY similar sounding sinister witch's laugh. Is it possible that Frank hid a "little clue" pertaining to King Crimson?? Hmmmm... What do you guys think? P.S. - Also just saw Fripp perform very dark and foreboding soundscapes at the Winter Gardens in The World Financial Center on Tuesday night 11/28 (NYC). Very cool save for the annoying children and rude restaurant patrons. Also saw a few flash (yikes!!) photos, but I guess Fripp didn't care much since it was in a shopping mall atmosphere. Still, very enjoyable, although my girlfriend found it boring after about 20 minutes!! Frank C. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 18:03:41 +1100 From: "dwane byrne" Subject: 'The Lady or the Tiger' Broadcast Is there something in the air? Sydney's 702 ABC Radio played in its entirety, TW and RF's 'The Lady or the Tiger' last night (Tuesday), followed by a talk-back discussion. This piece certainly is timeless. Dwane Byrne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 01:00:45 -0800 From: Adrian Cockcroft Subject: Toronto Gig Press Review - Sturm und Drang [Press review from the globeandmail.com Web Centre.] The Globe and Mail, Monday, November 27, 2000 In the court of the Crimson fanatics By Alan Niester [excerpts - it goes on like this for a while] At The Warehouse in Toronto on Friday It is a little bit ironic, and perhaps just a little bit sad, that despite a career that has lasted (off and on) for more than 30 years, the best remembered songs from progressive rock pioneers King Crimson remain to this day the ones from its 1969 debut album. Classic rock radio is still in love with such songs as In The Court Of The Crimson King and 21st Century Schizoid Man, even though Crimson founder and stalwart Robert Fripp has long since left them behind. But it must be the enduring popularity of those very songs that continues to draw the fans. It seems almost inconceivable that the band could continue to draw as well as it does (there must have been well over a thousand over-30 males at the club Friday night) given that its current recorded output fits into absolutely no radio format anywhere. No blame can be laid at the feet of radio programmers either, given that listening to present-day Crimson is an incredibly demanding experience. [ but obviously there is a market for non-radio music, maybe the typical KC fan depends on the Internet for info on the band, and radio isn't relevant any more?] But as is their wont, the quartet ultimately managed to push the envelope too far, delving into pointless instrumental Sturm und Drang on numbers such as Lark's Tongues in Aspic Part IV and the album's title cut. [My suggestion - for the next batch of improv or instrumentals, please name one of the pieces "Sturm und Drang" - Adrian] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 01:22:32 -0800 From: Adrian Cockcroft Subject: Drummer looking for KC - like band in SF Bay area A good friend of mine is an excellent drummer, in the Bruford style, and has played in various prog-rock bands in the UK for many years. His last band did Grateful Dead and Zappa covers, but ideally he's looking to do original compositions in the KC, Gong, Yes and similar styles. He now lives and works in the San Jose/San Franciso area, just bought a complete V-drum kit (superb and dead easy for home recording :-) as well as his regular kit, and is trying to find a band to play with regularly on a spare time basis. He can't tour or go professional due to work commitments (i.e. a company sponsored work permit to be in the USA in the first place...) Contact me or Paul Strong (paul dot strong at sun dot com) if you have any leads. TIA Adrian p.s. I play bass (rather poorly), and we jam for fun, but I'm nowhere close to being able to play this kind of stuff. I showed him a picture of Pat's setup and its the same kit, but Pat has much more of it.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:11:25 +0100 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Pic Search From RF's diary: "put out the Hello magazine, spread with fabbo pictures of us at home in Deepest Dorset" Anyone knows if these pictures are available online? Markus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:39:36 +0000 From: Nick Loebner Subject: CLUB #12 All mention of this has disappeared from the DGM news page - are we to summise it's cancelled? - Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:45:46 -0500 From: Tony Isch Subject: 11/4 Cleveland Set List Does anyone know what the set list was for the 11/4 KC concert in Cleveland or has it been posted somewhere? Thanks, Tony ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:49:33 EST From: Jdmack01 at aol dot com Subject: Taking Fripp to task In a message dated 11/29/00 1:30:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes:Richard Warner wrote: > I promised myself that I wouldn't do this but I think it is time to take Mr. > Fripp to task. > IT'S A WASP'S NEST! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!! J. D. Mack dc-et19 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:10:22 EST From: Signify71 at aol dot com Subject: The Rubber Bass and David Sylvian I have two questions for the digest; any help would be most appreciated! 1. Recently, I read a few postings on this Ashbory (sp?) Rubber bass that Trey has / uses. I checked out the link for more info, and yeah they only want about 300 bucks for it (Musician's friend)! Does anyone here own one of these? Or has had much exposure to one? I play bass (not professionally) and would be interested in acquiring one of these, but I would like to hear from someone who knows quite a bit about it (specifically, how well does it play, how does it sound, etc.). Or would my money be better used towards a proper fretless instrument (which is what I ultimately want, a fretless bass of some sort)? 2. I have also read a bit on David Sylvian, and I have not had the chance to check out his music. There's a store where I live with a surprisingly large amount of his titles in stock (four or five, and that's a lot for this store!), and I'd like to dig into his material, but I don't know where to start. Where to start, then? No, they don't have "Damage" in stock, already checked (that seems to be the one most discussed on here). Any and all responses welcome, preferably via email so as not to clog up the digest and also for time constraints. I can read 10 short emails faster than one long ET sometimes! :) Thanks, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:13:17 -0500 From: "top jimmy" Subject: Heavy Construction is a must have! Since I could not see any of the NYC shows, I did the next best thing and purchased Heavy Construction. I listened to cd #3 first to hear some of the jams. I eagerly got excited as it ended and cd #1 came cranking through my surround sound setup! The TCOL tunes sound amazing live. I love the way the double duo plays the double trio era songs. It gives the instruments a little more space and they are breathing easier with not so much going on. Pat has really stepped up to the plate. I don't understand why everybody is on a "bring back Bill kick". Give some credit to Trey also. He might not be as brilliant as Tony, but c'mon, he lays down some amazing grooves, especially during the improvs! The Crimson King is in fine form as usual and Ade sounds better than ever. This is KC2000. If you don't like it, don't listen. What other band releases a cd every other month to its diehard fans? "Talk, Talk. Its only talk!"...slander, silliness, stupidity. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:20:53 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Hartley Subject: Re: 6 degrees of Burt > Here's a "six degrees of separation" puzzle for you: King Crimson and > Burt Bacharach. Any takers? Not that tough. A path I *know*: 1. On Adrian's "Twang Bar King" album, the drimming was done by Larrie Londin. 2. Larrie Londin was Elvis Presley's drummer for 10 years. 3. Elvis P's long-time guitar player was James Burton. 4. James Burton played on Elvis Costello's "Kojak Variety" album 5. Elvis C. and Burt Bacharach appeared together in "The Spy Who Shagged Me" and released an album together. There - I only needed 5. Betcha didn't know there's only two steps between KC and Elvis Presley! ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh at brainiac dot com 12 Emma G Lane, Narragansett, RI 02882 - vox 401.782.9042 Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:06:37 -0600 (CST) From: Chelsea Snelgrove Subject: deja VROOOM DVD I just purchased my first DVD, Crimson's deja VROOOM. As of yet i don't own a DVD player, planning on getting one soon though, so i haven't been able to watch it yet. I've read alot of great reviews about it on amazon. Was wondering if anyone new what the "exciting hidden features" were, that the back of the case referred too. I know about the different camera angles and such. Was just wondering if there were more hidden features on it. Thanks, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:16:19 -0500 From: "Brown, Ken" Subject: David Cross " Exiles" Well after the question was asked about why David Cross redid Exiles and the response from Markus, I said to myself, 'gee maybe the cd wasn't as bad as I remembered it was!" But still not believing that it took me until now to dig it out and give a listen. My new conclusion: it is the worst of the four Cross cds. What a mess of a CD and truly disappointing after "Testing For Destruction". Let's start with Exiles, the original question: why redo a classic. OK so maybe it was a bit of naive question, songs are redone all the time. Redoing the song got me to buy this cd so maybe that is the reason to draw in older Crim fans. (OK I would have bought it away since I had the other Cross cds.) And when the songs starts I actually though maybe they would breathe new life into this classic song. Then it turns into more of the AOR fodder that Wetton as been hoisting on us since he decided to become a rock star with Asia. OK his vocals aren't really the problem with the song, the cliched ridden heavy metal guitar solos are. In fact, the problem with the disc in generally are the lousy guitar solos. (well except for Fripp's). In the middle of the song comes an acoustic guitar part and you can hear them sliding up and down the fret board. Not wanting to really appear to be some sort of music snob, this kind of stuff bothers me. Learn to play correctly or don't attempt it! Cross' playing on this and of the rest of the CD is first rate. The second track 'Tonk' features Pete Hammill and Fripp. This sounds like some sort of out-take from Exposure, and I meant that in a negative way! Hammill's vocal just does not do it for me, it doesn't sound like it goes to the rest of the song. The music of the song is actually very good, but man the vocals! OK the Slippy Side, Fast and Hero are instrumentals and all suffer from the cliche ridden guitar playing, it is really ashamed cuz again Cross' playing isn't bad. I could also do without the sax solos, but that is truly a personal preference, the sax playing isn't bad at all, I'm just not a sax guy! Duo is Cross playing over some Fripp soundscapes and is quite a lovely little piece. This is Your Life is composed by Cross and Sinfield, but is sounds like the Sinfield that writes the sappy songs now! And Wetton is the vocalist, and this one really comes across as AOR piece. Troppo again features Hammill and Fripp, this might be the best, most progressive piece on the cd. I like Hammill's vocals on this song and Fripp lays out some incredible solos. If the entire cd was like this it would be a monster! Conclusions: Not sure why Exiles was chosen to be redone, and while not a incredible new version, a respectable one. The rest of the CD, mostly a throw away except for Duo and Troppo. Want a great Cross cd try either Big Picture or Testing for Destruction. Keep the Faith (in the Music) ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:58:15 -0500 (EST) From: Art Cohen Subject: GIG REVIEW: ?????? Greetings Crimsters; The following mysterious correspondence recently found its way into my inbox. Having no idea for whom it was actually intended, I am posting it here in the hope that it will find its way to its proper recipient. Thanks! --Art ++ -- ++ -- ++ -- ++ -- ++ -- ++ -- ++ -- ++ -- ++ -- ++ -- ++ -- ++ -- ++ I recently went to see a band called "King Crimson". My buddy says they're a Famous Rock Group, but they never play them on the Classic Rock station, so I don't know how famous they could really be. But I have an open mind so I decided to check them out. Also, my buddy gave me a free ticket. My buddy says they used to kick ass, like back in the 50s or something, but later they weren't so good, because they got rid of their good singer and stopped playing all their good songs. But that was after they had broken up, except for one time before they broke up, when they stopped doing most of their good songs. He tried to explain it to me but it's very complicated.... I think they've had more different guys in their band than that band Gary's brother used to play the drums for. Remember that band, man? What were they called? Man, THEY could fucken ROCK, you know? Anyway, so my buddy says he likes their old songs (the good ones) that they never play, but he's not so crazy about the new ones (the lame ones) that they DO play, but he's going to the show anyway, in case they play some of the good songs (the old ones) that they never play. And he's got an extra ticket, and do I want to go, cause the guy who was supposed to take the ticket got sick and can't go. Now, this other guy (who couldn't go) has seen them a million times, including once a long time ago (maybe in the 40s?) when they were still kinda good, but even HE never saw them when they were REALLY good. But he's taped them a bunch of times, on this mini tape recorder he got from the office, and now he's got about a million tapes, even though most of them are from when they weren't any good anymore. Anyway, so this guy was pretty bummed that he couldn't go, cause I guess he has a new microphone that he hides in his shoe while he's recording. So my buddy says "why don't you take his ticket? You won't be able to tape the show, but you might have a good time anyway." I said I don't know, I don't think I've ever heard them on the radio. He says they used to play a couple of their songs -- the good ones -- on the radio, but I don't think I've heard them (something about a paranoid 20th century man? I told him that sounded like the Kinks, or Deep Purple or something but he says I'm confused). I wasn't gonna go, but he said he'd give me the ticket for free if I help him fix his AOL on his PC (it keeps disconnecting him). So the concert was OK, I guess, but my buddy was bummed that they didn't play any of their old songs. I thought the band was OK, but kind of sloppy. I mean, the singer didn't sing very much, and he didn't even play on one of the songs! He must not be very good. My buddy couldn't really explain to me why they allowed him in the band. And then this one time, the two guitar players tried to do a song where they were supposed to be playing the same thing, and they kept screwing it up!! I mean, I didn't expect them to be as good as, like, Iron Maiden or something, but I thought that at least their guitar players could play on the BEAT! Anyway, so my buddy says I should give them another chance, 'cause this wasn't such a good show, and if they played some of their old songs, it would kick some serious ass. I said it was all right, but I probably wouldn't go back, because it was just all right and there were like zero girls there. Not like that show we went to last year at the stadium, remember that? There were, like, chicks everywhere, remember that show? THAT was a fucken blast! And then Jimmy's cousin showed up with two tanks of nitrous and a keg of beer! Man, we were fucken WASTED that day! I almost didn't even make it into the show, you know? Now THAT was a good time! King Crimson wasn't nearly as much fun as that show. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:39:26 -0500 From: Warren Melnick Subject: GIG REVIEW: A lunch-size portion of Soundscapes I just got back from the first of 6 Soundscapes performances in NYC. How exactly does one describe one of these? Ummmm.... I guess you really cannot. I was not particularly paying attention for a "review" but here are some of my thoughts. First of all, the 40-minute timing for a lunch concert was perfect. There seemed to be 4 major "parts" to this particular soundscape. Emotionally, which to me seems to be the best way to describr it, it started rather upbeat, but due to the overcast weather and the fact that the atrium has a large amount of glass and everyone could see the outside sky, the music got a bit more down. Not necessarily dreary, but with a type of Bach organ feel to it. Think of the feeling evoked by the Tocatta in Tocatta and Fugue in D-minor. All in all quite an interesting experience. I am looking forward to tonight's performance! I am curious about one thing: After about 8 minutes the base of the soundscape starts to sound quite distorted. Is this by design or is it a limitation of the digital equipment being used? Does anyone know about this? Warren Melnick Director, Research & Development Astata Corporation (212) 584-5523 Fax: (212) 584-5580 "I worry about my child and the Internet all the time, even though she's too young to have logged on yet. Here's what I worry about. I worry that 10 or 15 years from now, she will come to me and say 'Daddy, where were you when they took freedom of the press away from the Internet?' " -Mike Godwin Plan: > cd /pub > more beer ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #776 ********************************