Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #773 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 773 Saturday, 25 November 2000 Today's Topics: Video Content of Heavy ConstruKction Delays in KIng Crimson Collector's Club Releases Hi! && Funky Jam? Bruford and Earthworks concert KC in Montreal rubber bass Ps->Crim, Boston audients Adrian names it Russian CD's/Bootlegs...Blah Blah Blah........ PCCK: Nick Grimson Action Report Mexico is Generating News KC 73/74 notes on the hartford show Heavy ConstruKction Video Woes on Macs Quincy Braintree - Boston 11/20/00 '70s remasters GIG REVIEW: MONTREAL ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:57:42 -0000 From: new_user at email dot msn dot com Subject: Video Content of Heavy ConstruKction Haven't seen any postings regarding the contents on the video footage on 'Heavy ConstruKction'. In my opinion it's:- 00:00 Improv. Rome 08:05 Lark's Tongues In Aspic - Part IV 16:40 Code : I Have A Dream 20:20 Cage 26:20 Oyster Soup 33:25 Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream 39:15 VROOOM Regards, John. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:13:02 EST From: PESCHULZ at aol dot com Subject: Delays in KIng Crimson Collector's Club Releases Does anyone know when the King Crimson Collector's Club will start up its release cycle again? The last disc I received was the Mole's Club Bath concert (Club 11). From examining the discography it looks the the Hyde's Park disc was delayed but the 1997 rehersal sessions and a '71 concert appear to still be on schedule. I'm assuming that things slowed down because of the recent KC tour, but if there's another explanation I'd appreciate hearing it. Also, regarding the Bruford/Gong connection, I think that period was when Gong was going by the name Paragong. A two song live Paragong CD does not have Bruford on it, but I have read that a Virgin compliation from that time contained a studio (?) cut by that line-up. Is it possible that Bruford played on that song? Thanks, Paul Schulz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 01:11:39 -0500 From: Sylvan Subject: Hi! && Funky Jam? Hi, there. New Crimson fan here. Downloaded Schizoid Man from Napster a few months ago and was blown away. Bought the album. And then another. And a few more... Went to the Town Hall show last week, was blown away again. ;) Anyway, trawling Napster for random rare tracks, I came across a song called Funky Jam. It's not from any of their albums, but it's studio. It sounds like 80's era Crimson. Someone had it listed as the eighth track from Discipline, which seems highly unlikely. ;) Anyone know where this is from? -- Sylvan "The hamster is still dead." --Leonard Nimoy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:03:42 +0900 From: tom at sure dot sony dot co dot jp Subject: Bruford and Earthworks concert Just a note: Bill Bruford and Earthworks will be performing at Tribute to the Love Generation, a music club/restaurant in Odaiba, Tokyo on Feb 9, 10 and 11, 2001. This is the place where CGT/Tony Levin played on Nov 12 and where King Crimson made their first ever club appearance in Japan on Oct 2. David Rhodes was here with Akira Inoue on Nov 22 as well. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:04:48 -0500 From: David Subject: KC in Montreal Hello everyone. I saw King Crimson in Montreal last night. During the intermission, Adrian Belew came out and played a couple of minutes of The Court of the Crimson King on his acoustic guitar, and sang a verse. He introduced it warily and with respect, and I am sure someone here who was at the show can quote both what he said and the actual verse verbatim. Unfortunately, the show ended on a bit of a sour note as someone near the front of the stage took two photographs during the beginning of the encore. Belew waved "no" during "Red," and before "Heroes" reiterated that there is no photography allowed. After "Heroes" Fripp stomped off the stage in anger, and the three remaining musicians stayed on stage only briefly to say goodbye, and then left the stage. Either Trey Gunn or Pat Mastelotto mouthed "Where's Robert?" and Belew replied that he would not come back on stage. (I am a good lip reader.) The concert may have been over at that point anyway, but one selfish person did ruin the final moments for several thousand people. Robert Fripp would have bowed with the other musicians and more after the concert if it was not for this unfortunate incident. This is easily the worst thing about seeing King Crimson in concert. People just do not know how to behave anymore. David Schipper ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:43:05 -0500 From: "Dennis Wiens" Subject: rubber bass I've read Trey mention he likes to use his "Rubber Bass" from time to time. I believe he likes to pull it out on "One Time." When I saw KC, he played his Warr exclusively. There was another bass behind him, but he did not touch it. Could some one enlighten me. What is a Rubber Bass? I play bass so my next question is .... Why? I don't understand the concept of a string instrument made of rubber. Thanks for the help. Regards Dennis Wiens ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 14:29:53 -0500 From: "T.J. Mathews" Subject: Ps->Crim, Boston audients >Art Cohen wrote of Boston 11/21: >And speaking of crazy hippies, I never thought I'd *ever* see a version of >King Crimson as loose, spontaneous and downright *funny* as this one. >Maybe it's the result of playing in the various ProjeKcts for the last few >years, but this Crim seemed a lot less interested in doing things "by the >book" and a lot more willing to just take an idea and run with it. YES. Thanks for saying this Art. I expected this in light of what the Ps created. I spoke briefly to Trey after a TGBand show earlier this year and mentioned how I thought the Ps, particularly P2, had seemed to open him up some more live. He agreed. If they care to "run with it" in full I will be thrilled. Could you dig a 45 minute version of thrush? Nosebleed city. >Peter Shindler wrote about Boston, 11/20: >The audience: The perfect Crimson audience? There was complete silence >until it was clear that the piece at hand was over, and then everyone went >nuts... there were no flash photos or calls for "Cat Food." How wonderful this sounds. A mature audience. Silence was reached some in DC and barely in Philly. We might still get more reports of this good behavior from Canada. Now, with the tour ending, we all get to wipe away our tears and hold our collective breaths. tj, dc-et2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 14:42:51 -0500 From: "T.J. Mathews" Subject: Adrian names it Near the end of the 11/16 Philly show there was an improv that in my view broke a sonic barrier. Both Adrian and Robert were ripping it up at the same time and not in a similar vein. It was the highlight, albeit just two or three minutes, of the four shows I saw. And then at it's end Adrian yelled into the mike, "I demand a recount!" He stepped back a step and said something like, "I missed a few notes." I sure hope that IDaR gets to disk someday. Might we get a whole lot more of the third HC disk type tracks from the Japan and US shows? Any other takers? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 15:03:35 EST From: PR1955 at aol dot com Subject: Russian CD's/Bootlegs...Blah Blah Blah........ All this elephant talk about bootlegs/pirate CD's is getting real silly. Who are you guys who complain to ebay? The Crimson police? God (who sometimes smiles-LOL) when I was younger and an ardent collector I and many of my friends would relish over the new vinyl boot with it's hand stamped cover. Beleive me it is a fact that this practice does not hurt the artist and only fans buy this stuff not the general populus. So why all the fretting and posturing over this stuff. Lighten up. This world is tough enough and you gotta make it tougher? How far PC must we (you) become.What-you guys who start trouble don't use Napster or steal MP3's off the net? Who are you kidding. Are you complaining because you can't afford the #'s they get on ebay for some of these more questionable titles? Tough shit! But don't complaim. Hey did Fripp personally ask you to get involved? Hidden messages in his diary only you can see and act on? If DGM was so concerned they will stop it.I said my peice. It saddens me that people like you cause trouble for the few out there who want and will get these items........ PS: I have a friend in Russia who got me both CD's in question for 2-yes 2 bucks each in Moscow almost a year ago. The shipping cost me more than the 2 CD's together.(Shipping was almost $7) So go ahead flame me and do your worst cause I think you're silly and a bit of a CD fascist......Take your best shot.... Peace,love and catfood to ya all...... Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 14:03:27 -0800 (PST) From: Schizoid Man Subject: PCCK: Nick Grimson Action Report PCCK: Nick Grimson Action Report 1) Here's some information collected from Ebay's completed auction (range period 1 month) " King Crimson Anthology CD-ROM #1 Unique Russian release not to be found elsewhere. Not a CD-R! In mint condition. (C) "Home Collection" 1999/2000." In The Court Of The Crimson King - 1969 In The Wake Of Poseidon - 1970 Lizard - 1970 Islands - 1971 Earthbound Live - 1972 Lark's Tonguesnln Aspic - 1973 Starless And Bible Black - 1974 Red - 1974 U.S.A. Live '74 - 1975 King Crimson Anthology CD-ROM #2 (seller:sweetdumle at mail dot krovatka dot ru) Unique Russian release not to be found elsewhere. Not a CD-R! In mint condition. (C) "Home Collection" 1999/2000. Disci pline - 1981 Beat - 1982 Three Of A Perfect Pair - 1984 VROOM - 1994 THRAK - 1995 B'BOOM (Live In Argentina 2CD) - 1995 THRaKaTTaK (Live) - 1996 Epitaph 2CD - 1997 King Crimson Anthology CD-ROM #3 (sold at $20.50 -Nov16- seller:sweetdumle at mail dot krovatka dot ru ) Unique Russian release not to be found elsewhere. Not a CD-R! In mint condition. (C) "Home Collection" 1999/2000. The Great Deceiver - 4 CD BOX - 1992 CD1 Things are not they seem... CD2 Sleight Of Hand CD3 Acts Of Deception CD4 But Neither Are They Otherwise The Nightwatch Live '73 - 1997 Absent Lovers Live '84 - 1998 King Crimson Anthology CD-ROM #4 Unique Russian release not to be found elsewhere. Not a CD-R! In mint condition. (C) "Home Collection" 1999/2000. Circus CD1 Circus CD2 The Deception Of The Thrush Live At Cap D'Agde King Krimson On Broadway 2CD The Construction Of Light 2)The Earthbound Fake CD last month prices on Ebay: Title Price Number of bids Date EarthBound CD $13.51 6 CD remaster.MINT! $15.50 3 10/28 20:13 Earthbound on CD (SILVER!) $10.76 8 10/29 08:48 EARTHBOUND RARE CD $20.00 4 10/29 19:29 "EARTHBOUND" CD, NEW $36.00 (!!)7 11/02 17:54 Earthbound CD Russian Pressing $18.49 3 11/03 ~ Earthbound ~ CD remaster.MINT! $25.50 20 11/06 "EARTHBOUND" CD, NEW $41.00 (!!) 9 11/11 Earthbound CD Russian Pressing $17.99 2 11/11 The USA Fake CD last month prices on Ebay: ---------------- Title Price Number of bids Date ~ USA ~ imp.remastered CD MINT! $26.01 11 10/28 USA CD Russian Pressing $19.99 1 10/31 18:25 USA - 2nd live album'' CD, NEW $15.50 7 11/02 ~ USA ~ imp.remastered CD MINT! $18.50 8 11/06 "USA - 2nd live album'' CD, NEW $22.83 8 11/10 - USA CD+4 Bonus nur 3 Tage !! $42.00 3 11/10 USA CD Russian Pressing $24.51 2 11/11 ------------- After examining the bid history of these auctions I'm now sure that there's also fake bidders Id , in order to rise the final prices. I've written to some bidders with friendly messages, most of them are real KC fans ignoring it was fake products. I'm now writing to sellers to demand them to cancel their KC auctions (they can continue on other bands;-)) I'll keep you informed best regards Nick Grimson - NickGrimson at yahoo dot com - ProteKcting Court of the Crimson King ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 00:06:53 From: "Jorge Landa" Subject: Mexico is Generating News Hi there: Well there are great, greaat news for the people in Mexico. As some should know on november 29 and 30 John Wetton will be playing... Great news!!! But there is someone more to come... on January 27, 2001. Phew!!!, I don't know if I must tell, whatever all things are a part... I can't wait Landa _________ "Todo angel es terrible" Rilke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 19:17:37 EST From: Jr1532 at aol dot com Subject: KC 73/74 Hi Crimheads! someone beat me to the punch but i totally agree--the VH-1 footage of the 73/74 KC was incredible, the quality excellent. i think this version of KC was truly amazing (a bias opinion since i'm a huge JW fan) and I want more live cd's/videos from this era. also: WHERE IS THE RERELEASE OF USA! if we start a groundswell of demand, hopefully DGM will release more things from 73/74 KC in the future. thanks for listening. j. romano melville, ny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:28:45 -0500 From: "Kevin Mather" Subject: notes on the hartford show I recently attended my first crimson show, the hartford show at the webster and I was totally blown away. I was so excited about seeing them, I forgot to write down the song list, but I may be able to recollect from memory. The webster theater is not known for its acoustic qualities, but KC's excellent sound system rendered this aspect to a minimum. The band seemed very relaxed and appeared to be completely enjoying themselves. It was great to see a mixed crowd of people in their early 20's to people in their 50's. A couple people had even bought their children along and these kids appeared to be totally enjoying themselves, swaying or bobbing their heads to the music. This was definitly one of the best shows I have seen ever. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:28:36 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Heavy ConstruKction Video Woes on Macs I was wondering if any Mac users who have been able to view the video on Heavy ConstruKction could email me about what it was they needed to do to get it working. (I am assuming that some of you have been successful.) I continue to get emails from people using Macs or iMacs or G4 machines who cannot even get their computer to recognize the CD ROM has any files on it, and as I am not a Mac user myself I have little ability to help out. If I can get some kind of cookbook answer together from the responses I will of course update the instruction page I've posted at DGM Web. Thanks in advance, Dan DGM and ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:10:45 -0500 From: "blake Ultranet" Subject: Quincy Braintree - Boston 11/20/00 Greetings; For those of you who attended the Boston 11/20 show, or have noticed the postings referencing Ade introducting himself as Quincy Braintree - this is the story behind the name change/ Many years ago (about 15) when Adrian was touring with the Bears, they played at the Paradise club in Boston. [Great show by the way] During the drive to the venue, the band was disoriented at the interchange of 95 (128) and 93 as they travelled north to Boston. (Those of you near Beantown know how confusing this area might be for out of towners.) Anyway, the members noticed the road signs for the towns of Quincy & Braintree, which are listed to gether as Quincy Braintree, and they thought it was a great name. During the Bears show, they joked about the signs, joked about changing the group's name to Quincy Braintree, and members of the band talked of changing their names to Quincy Braintree. Boston must have brought these memories back to Adrian. I wonder if I am the only one at the 11/20 show who knows where the reference came from? Blake ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 01:02:12 -0400 From: Andrew Acunzo Subject: '70s remasters I recently picked up the new batch of remasters, and I'm very impressed. LTIA in particular sounds like a brand new album to me they cleaned it up so much. It's great to hear all of Muir's "percussion and allsorts," as well as read his equipment list in the liner notes. :) Of the remasters I have I'd rate LTIA as the most improved (better than Court and Red; can't judge SABB because I never had it on CD before). Speaking of remasters, does anyone else it was foolish of RF and Tony Arnold (I think that's the guy) to call the 1989 remasters the "definitive editions" when audio technology is always improving? I can't decide which is worse, that or coming up with a tuning system which only a few hundred people use and declaring it the "New STANDARD Tuning." :) Andy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 01:00:32 -0500 From: "Antoine W. Caron" Subject: GIG REVIEW: MONTREAL The Metropolis is the venue where ProjeKct 2 played its last gig , a while ago, and it was a very good one (see also Trey Gunn's account in the notes from the ProjeKcts box). However, it is not renowned for its acoustics. More on that... Last night we braved a bitterly cold Montreal night to witness the King's penultimate show of the current tour. Slowly, the crowd eventually packed the club, a narrow, deep standing-only space plus two balconies. Set (approx): Lark's4/TCOL/Prozac/FraKctured/impro/Thela/vroom vroom/Frying Pan/short impro/One Time/Frame by Frame/ET encores: solo Adrian: ITCOTKK theme!/TOPP P3: Deception of the Thrush Red Heroes The band put a lot of intensity into the music, but one could feel that something didn't quite work for a while. The musician's faces looked tense, like if the stage sound was inadequate or something. I was standing in the middle, one third of the room's depth from the stage, and the sound was weak and lacked any clarity. TCOL seemed to be played very well, but I couldn't hear a lot of what those fingers were playing. Too bad. Prozac was good, very superior to the recorded version. FracKtured was intense, but again the sound's muddiness stood like a screen between the music and me (us?). With a nice spacy intro, One Time was for me a highlight of the evening. The lower volume and the dynamics really opened a door to the audience. Pat was amazing there. A pretty good Frying Pan, but wait a minute! I can't hear that steaming Ade solo! I see his fingers move and his body twitch, but I am limited to aural memory. Bummer. Observation #1: The new material is great live (as it is on record), but it is quite vulnerable to sound reproduction deficiencies. It is so dense and on the edge! Then, Frame by Frame hit with full impact. Finally, every note of Fripp's mad arpeggios could be heard. The band was as one, and the sound acceptable. ET got almost a punk treatment. Great! Adrian opened the encores with an acoustic version of a bit of In the Court, with audience chorus! Fun stuff. then, of course TOPP. Neat ProjeKct3 followed with a very good DOTT. Robert's soundscape-like voicing almost a tron...Exit. Very enthousiastic crowd. Then they came back for a blistering Red. They blasted through with great power. I don't care if it's old or new, it rips! I don't remember exactly when (in fact I didn't see it), but a flash occured and AB gestured in reprobation. It took a while to get them back on stage and Adrian warmly thanked the assembly, but requested: "no more photos, please". They did Heroes (which was a very good idea), but I am afraid it wasn't a very good version. It sounded weak, almost out of tune. I don't know. RF wasn't enjoying himself any more and left right away, while the audience still cheered on. Generally, I found the audience quite supportive and attentive. Again, I felt I missed a great deal of what went on because the sound wasn't good (from where I stood, at least) Observation#2: It is not easy to judge by attending only one show from this tour, but I got the impression that the 4 instrumentist sounds did not blend well alot of the times. Patch selection? Gear clash? Too much electronic fatras in the way of the music? Difficult to say. I concur with an earlier observation that the Warr guitar sounds have very little attack transients and can easily sound indistinct (too bad 'cause TG is a virtuoso). Wrong venue? You bet. Still, a fiery performance by a King Crimson that is not ageing, but mutating wildly with the times. aWc awc at sympatico dot ca http://awc.iuma.com Antoine W. Caron awcaron at total dot net antoine dot caron at nrc dot ca ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #773 ********************************