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               E L E P H A N T    T A L K

        The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp
              and King Crimson enthusiasts

                        Number 768

                 Sunday, 19 November 2000

Today's Topics:

   GIG BIZ: Boston ticket wanted

   E-bows and sustains
   Unofficial Quote Of The Week
   New York Times sounds off on KC at Supper Club
   Re: shocker on VH-1
   Re: ...Acts of Deception (The Magic Circus, Or Weasles Stole Our Fruit)
   League of Gents video
   Re: Shakti
   Pat's Snare Drum Mystery
   Ebow
   "The Fantastic Chester Thompson On Drums..."
   Re: Misc.
   chester thompson
   Translated Polish Interview
   Re: Wanted: Damage by Sylvian/Fripp
   Moving On
   Nad's open mid and news
   Philadelphia Nov. 17
   Beginning soundscapes
   Projekct X CD

   GIG REVIEW: Philly Fri 11/18

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------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A ---------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 23:32:59 -0800
From: "Mike Dexter" <mkdexter at home dot com>
Subject: GIG BIZ: Boston ticket wanted

anyone got one extra tic for either KC show in Boston? please e-mail me at
mkdexter at home dot com - thanks. -mike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:57:03 -0800
From: "David Isaak" <disaak at socal dot rr dot com>
Subject: E-bows and sustains

>>Final question!  On several of Fripp's solos, there seems to be
tremendous sustain, long before the Fernandes company began manufacturing
their pickup system.  "Requiem" comes to mind, and some parts in
"Providence" seem interesting in that regard.  Has Fripp ever used an
E-Bow?  I think maybe he has.  In "Requiem," I can hear the string
buzzing against the drive channel (the part where the E-Bow vibrates the
string), and there isn't a strong pick noise until later in the
piece...anybody have a clue what I'm talking about?<<

Trey uses an e-bow sometimes, but Fripp has specifically said that he was
given one once as a present but has never used it. As far as his sustains
go, he claims they are technique rather than technology, and watching him
play suggests that this is correct; he really knows how to juice a note for
all it is worth.

Cheers, DI

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:03:09 -0800
From: "David Isaak" <disaak at socal dot rr dot com>
Subject: Unofficial Quote Of The Week

"I can say that I don't think Adrian Belew plays guitar; I don't know what
it is that he plays--it's some kind of animal."

--Laurie Anderson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:56:10 -0500
From: Kathryn Ottersten <ottkat at bellatlantic dot net>
Subject: New York Times sounds off on KC at Supper Club

Hi Crimpeoples,

Just thought that people on ET might like to see the review of KC that
was in yesterday's New York Times.  Not bad for the Times, which usually
sends reviewers who cannot spell the word "groove" (Fave review in the
Times: In 1998 they sent someone to review P2 at Irving Plaza who noted
that the band "attracted a medium-size audience of virtually all white
men between 30 and 40" [my sister and I were reduced to being virtual
fans].  He concluded that the band was not "demographically generous.").

Kathy Ottersten

King Crimson's Long Rule Over a Realm of Art Rock

By ANN POWERS

A fan near the stage of the Supper Club on Sunday night demonstrated the
emblematic response to King Crimson's music. His gaze was set on the
band's four members, but his hands had a life of their own.

The fan's fingers flew in air-guitar ecstasy as Robert Fripp pulled off
fast, meticulous riffs, and bent backward when Adrian Belew, Mr. Fripp's
dueling partner, pulled his whammy bar. The hands became fists as the
drummer, Pat Mastelotto, drew thunder from his massive kit, and opened,
relaxing, in the quiet passages dominated by Trey Gunn's baritone
guitar.

A whole way of appreciating rock was revealed by that fan's hands: one
that prizes the music as a way of strengthening the link between body
and brain. This is the realm of the virtuoso, not huge in rock, where
the goal is usually to loosen people up. But King Crimson's art rock
gets its fire from deep concentration, not playful expressiveness. It
goes for the gut of precision and refinement.

King Crimson has realized the best and worst of this approach. Its long
history parallels that of progressive rock itself, from post-hippie
imaginings into leaner New Wave and finally the productive
semi-obscurity of the cult artist. Mr. Fripp has been the one consistent
member, employing myriad lineups to execute his theories of playing and
composition.

The current group invokes the 1980's, when Mr. Belew's off-kilter pop
songs actually landed King Crimson on the radio, as well as more recent
experiments involving Mr. Gunn and Mr. Mastelotto. Mr. Belew, who lends
the group a sense of humor, provided charmingly demented vocals on
favorites like "Elephant Talk" and new songs like the free-association
rocker "The World's My Oyster Soup Kitchen Floor Wax Museum."

Such witticisms were gravy for the crowd absorbed in tricky instrumental
interplay. Mr. Fripp, seated surrounded by gadgets, stayed grounded in
mellifluous harmonics but sometimes let out a roaring solo. Mr. Belew
was his foil, moving from outbursts to delicate filigrees.

The rhythm section may have been responsible for the lack of focus.
Sometimes Mr. Gunn and Mr. Mastelotto rendered a groove leaden when it
should have gleamed. But then their lighter touch would steer the
guitarists toward more open, intuitive improvisations.

Any dull moments were certainly unintentional, stemming from the
tendency of these aces to go so far afield that they lose everyone else.
Yet the low points almost seemed like part of the exercise. Every form
of mastery involves some boredom. The hands of that fan in the front had
to go slack sometimes, so they'd be ready to flex again.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:24:30 -0800
From: "Mike Birtchet" <bershay at teleport dot com>
Subject: Re: shocker on VH-1

>King Crimson 87th best hard rock band ever according to VH-1!  The piece
>included plenty of band shots, too much focus on "21st Century Schizoid
>Man", and a suitable out-of-context quote by Boppin' Bobby himself!

>For added insult, Foreigner is number 86! ;-)

Looks like Ian McDonald has the last laugh on this one-  he was a founder
member of both bands!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 03:38:26 -0500
From: jon b currier <jaycee728 at juno dot com>
Subject: Re: ...Acts of Deception (The Magic Circus, Or Weasles Stole Our

Fruit)
Playfull banter from the ingrates below...
loving the droppings falling our way....
the first night in philly...

trey gunn absconding with the show...future three-piece sans belew?
Fripp...behaving as the guest who turns up for tea....
utters not a word... and then leaves to rail verbally on the inferiority
of our marmalade...
bravo...
short extemporaneous interludes...fripp video game guitar boings...

awaiting second philly show

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 08:01:59 -0500
From: "Hugh O'Donnell" <113077 dot 1321 at compuserve dot com>
Subject: League of Gents video

Anyone out there ever heard of/seen a video boot of the League of Gentlemen
circa 1980 Leeds?  We are looking for material for the forthcoming Channel
4 Top Ten prog bands TV program Any info may be emailed directly, and we
are willing to extend the terms of our Bootleg Amnesty to anyone who can
send us a copy.

Hugh O'Donnell, DGM art department

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:43:21 -0500
From: "Brian O'Connell" <brian dot oconnell at point-of-view dot com>
Subject: Re: Shakti

Does the new album have the mandolin player who was on the last "Remember
Shakti" tour about 2 years ago? I remember him being a very young looking
kid who was RIPPING THE SHIT out of that little axe, nothing short of
phenomenal. He was even giving big Johnny McLaughlin a run for his money. If
he is on that disk I would highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys being
blown away.

[ Yep, his name is U. Srinivas -- Toby ]

3 more days until the Boston shows......woooooo hoooooooo!!!!

-Brian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:02:10 EST
From: ChalkPie88 at aol dot com
Subject: Pat's Snare Drum Mystery

Greetings Drum Techies,

I just picked up "Heavy ConstruKction" and noticed that Pat's snare seems to
be an electronic one (as on TCOL).  Pat seemed to have been playing an
acoustic snare in the two NYC shows that I just saw. Perhaps it sounded
differently live in the house versus the way it sounded on the DAT mixing
console. I'm wondering if anybody else has noticed this and is it possible
that Pat changed his snare to an acoustic one recently? Hmmmm....

Cheers,
Frank

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:27:24 -0500
From: "Britt, Michael" <MBritt at gccnj dot edu>
Subject: Ebow

This page, http://www.ebow.com/record.htm claims that an ebow was used on -
The Robert Fripp String Quintet: The Bridge Between.
Is this true?  I assume not but do not know for sure so I can't email them
(recordcuts at ebow dot com) and let them know.

Michael Britt
www.duophone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 20:37:55 +0100
From: "Markus Gnad" <richard dot gnad at liwest dot at>
Subject: "The Fantastic Chester Thompson On Drums..."

... as quoted by Steve Hackett on Tokyo Tapes, has a very good album out on
Camino Records: A JOYFUL NOISE.

Try this!

Markus

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 15:05:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Art Cohen <upsetter at shore dot net>
Subject: Re: Misc.

Responding to minutiae from the last couple of ETs:

>In the Cirkus booklet, across the middle pages is a photograph of what
>looks like a setlist.  It has THRAK and the like on it, so it has to be
>from that period, at the earliest...however, just before "Sex, Sleep,
>Eat, Drink, Dream" is "The Sheltering Sky."  Now, I had no idea that this
>piece was ever performed live after the 80's Crimson.

It was performed at least once by the Double Trio, in LA, and a bootleg
exists with the title "The Sheltering Sky". I agree that this would be a
great song to bring back.

>BB played on the '76 tour with Genesis. Seconds Out featured mostly '77
>trax with Chester. A couple more trax were available on the import
>version of 3 Sides Live when originally released as LP. Don't know the
>case with CD.

Those tracks are available on the CD. There was some consternation on the
Genesis newsgroup recently about the fact that the fourth studio side of
that album is now apparently unavailable on CD.

> "league of gentlemen" is a classic and should not be tampered with.

He's right, you know.

--Art

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 20:05:33 -0600
From: "Tracy Family" <cmtracy at ndak dot net>
Subject: chester thompson

  Hey Crimfans,
Chester Thompson was brought up in a recent ET and it brought to mind a
question I have had for a long time.
Is Chester Thompson of Genesis, Phil Collins solo stuff, the same as the CT
that played keyboards for Tower of Power in the mid 70's?  Simply inquiring
from the ET group, because of the vast musical knowledge many of you have.
                      Thanks! Curt Tracy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:01:46 -0600
From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <justin dot kolodziej at marquette dot edu>
Subject: Translated Polish Interview

There really isn't anything new in this interview.  Certainly there
isn't anything suggesting that Mr. Fripp's ego is anywhere near as large
as you seem to think it is.

Anyway, I thought the real reason Bill Bruford isn't in the current
Crimson is that Mr. Fripp wanted an all-electronic band, including
(V)drums, and Bruford wasn't down with that.  Therefore he and Crimson
parted ways.  I think that was actually in Robert Fripp's diary, though
a long time ago.

Ironically, now Pat Mastelotto is using acoustic drums in his set... a
sign of things to come?

That part at the end where it says Mssrs. Fripp and Bruford never got
along well is kind of strange, considering Mr. Bruford was both in the
most "different" versions of King Crimson (5, if I'm counting right),
and for the longest time by far!  I guess their differences always get
smoothed over eventually.

As far as Tony Levin goes, the article just seems to say Tony Levin had
a prior committment with Seal, and the tour got cancelled just a little
too late to add him to the current Crimson.  At that point Mr. Fripp had
a tough call to make regarding re-working the whole concept of the
current Crimson to include Tony Levin.  I, unfortunately, am unable to
access parallel universes, so I can't say if the results would have been
better or worse had Mr. Fripp included Mr. Levin in the band.  I do,
however, miss his part in VROOOM.

This is pure speculation, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see either
a five-piece Crimson with Tony Levin, or even the return of the Double
Trio, the next time out.

Of course, with King Crimson you never know what's going to happen next
time... or whether there even will be a next time at all...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 15:58:21 GMT
From: "Spear man" <spearman at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Re: Wanted: Damage by Sylvian/Fripp

>Has anybody seen a copy of Damage,
>I suppose I should ask anyone whose heard it whether it's
>actually worth searching out. Any opinions?

I like it.  Trey Gunn's not too keen on it.

but, I'd recommend the japanese  CLV or VHS release of the performance at
Nakano Sun Plaza Hall, Tokyo, October 26, 1993.  It's worthy of the search
for EXPOSURE alone.

Otherwise, find the pirate CD release on the Italian Live Storm label
entitled "Tokyo 1993" if you absolutely must have it on CD and really want
EXPOSURE (some boots don't have this track) and don't mind venturing into
the dark nether world of profiteers....

--spearman

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:19:38 -0500
From: "Albert Oller" <ago at fiam dot net>
Subject: Moving On

From ET 767
>>It's not that easy to "MOVE ON",

No it's not easy to move on, but is it fair to require that other people (in
ET, in King Crimson, your ex-lover)  remain static so that you can satisfy
your nostalgia?  I don't think it is fair, and I think it is a real drag to
have people "pissing in the communal wine".  Why waste energy fighting what
exists?  If one wants to remain in the past, then why make an effort to
encounter and change the present?  Stay in the past with your happy
thoughts.  There is nothing wrong with loving the past incarnations of the
band and not the present.  There is something wrong with latching onto the
present band and trying to confine it to its past.

>>"Maybe there's still something there for me."

I think that there may be something there for many people, but the inclusion
of the word 'still' is what creates a mis-understanding.  What is there does
not exist only on one person's terms.  It exists in and of itself in the
present, and then it has to be met there.  I'm not suggesting 'Love it or
leave it', I'm suggesting 'Accept it, and love it if you want'.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 13:57:24 -0500
From: "Timothy W Cox" <timothy dot w dot cox at gte dot net>
Subject: Nad's open mid and news

Firstly let me say that Gnad Markus made a spectacular point in issue #767

>And, as an addition to this: Has anybody of those who keep
on RKT-bashing ever tried to imagine what it must feel like
if you have spent 20 years of listening (and probably loving)
your band, and then come to find out that you don't find them
attractive anymore? It's not that easy to "MOVE ON", you still
wants to try and get back to that feeling of the days when you
liked them. That's why loads of guys who say they don't like
the new Krim still buy their albums, go to their concerts and stuff -
just to give it one more try. Like...

"Maybe there's still something there for me."<

    I haven't been listening for 20 years but this is the first time that I
have felt Crimson has not delivered a quality album. Of course Fractured,
TCOL, and  new Larks are potentially great pieces, the band doesn't deliver
the full potential on these, and the other new works are simply pathetic
(Thrush has potential, and I am not saying I could write better). Markus's
argument is valid. If a band produces works that you consistently admire for
x amount of years and then produce something unadmirable then the band has
obviously taken a road that doesn't suit them as well as previous ones. Of
course you could argue that particular fans are living in the past but how
do you explain that they admire new works (inconsistent with the past) from
other artists.You fan boys can lie to yourselves all you want and give
praise to this band just because it bears the name "Crimson", but I have
seen the recent tour and my audio archive rocks more, out of the speakers,
than this band does in person. You can say "move on" all you want but, as an
objective listener, it is hard to say that this music (the compositions) are
worth the praise that posters give them. I was at the Cleveland show and few
that I encountered were impressed by this band and most spent their time
talking about other incarnations. The musicians probably aren't to blame,
but rather the compositions themselves. I think it is better to compare
Crimson's new material with other bands output than against Crimson itself
and you will find that this isn't earth moving music. On a similar note, it
is nice to see that this site has become the "Bill Buford information site"
because he continues to embody the spirit and unpredictability of quality
music. Reply all you want but we all know what is really said about this
band in private circles. Maybe everyone else should "move on" because they
haven't taken the freedom to listen to the music from a holistic approach. I
should not end this long winded statement negatively. Individually the band
members are "great" musicians and "everyone"  is entitled to their opinion.

    Now, onto the news! Firstly, Geddy Lee (Rush) has produced an
exceptional solo album. You can get some information at his highly
interactive site http://www.myfavoriteheadache.com/ . This release really
reveals Geddy's contributions to Rush. Secondly, and more close to
Crimson/Fripp relation, Andy Summers has joined forces with Jack Bruce and
Dennis Chambers. The band is called "Hot Flash" and they have already
written more than 20 songs (recorded 7 in one day). I am not sure what will
develop from this trio but it sounds interesting. Obviously this news is
more interesting to bass players than Crimson "fan boys".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:52:56 -0800 (PST)
From: keith adams <starless_and_bible_black at yahoo dot com>
Subject: Philadelphia Nov. 17

I attended my first king crimson show at the theatre of the living arts in
philadelphia. i was appalled!  i have never seen such crude behavior. and
at a crimson show? the place was filled with middle aged fucks who werenot
at all interested in listening to what these acceptional talents had to
say, but instead their interest was in talking about the time they did this
and the time they did that, and "get me another beer" and ducking down so
no one could see them lighting their joint. and the performances suffered.
these remeniscant conversations went on even as the music was playing and
it showed in the fact that whenever there was a moment of silence the crowd
burst in applause as all of the members looked at each as if to say "hey
we're not done". it seems to me as if fripp could have been playing "hit me
baby one more time" by himself and these people would have still
applauded. i mean come on two attempts at improvisation were
ruined!!!!!!!!!! pat seemed so mad at the audience that he had to be
summoned back on stage by the rest of the band to accept the closing
cheers, only to stand there with crossed arms and a pissed off look on his
face. these old farts ruined the show for the numerous kids who stood
completley attentive. and you would expect it to be the other way around.

but overall the band stayed on through this bullshit and progressivley got
there chops together as the show went on. thank you guys. i think i would
have even left the stage if i were performing in front of these
yo-yo's. and i am just an amatuer musician.  if i were to name a highlight
of the show, it would have to be trey gunns solo in "the deception of the
thrush". it was the only time in the show that the band was in complete
communication with the audience at least for the people around me. that
solo was moving! and you could hear his frustration in every note. i cosed
my eyes for the whole thing and they only opened as they began to tear. as
the tears cleared out, i looked around the room and something was
different, nothing looked as it did before. i never felt that way before.
i am very sorry you pretentious idiots at the show couldnt experience
that. but hey not all of us are blessed with manners, minds and hearts.

elliot adams

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 16:25:39 EST
From: GenoTT at aol dot com
Subject: Beginning soundscapes

(Too bad there wasn't "A Beginners Guide To Soundscapes").

Actually, there is. "Pie Jesu" is sort of a CD-single, being billed as "a
four-track introduction to Soundscapes." It's about $6 (I think) from DGM.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 19:59:42 -0200
From: "Adrian Cagnani" <adrian at pocos-net dot com dot br>
Subject: Projekct X CD

Does anyone knows if the PROJEKCT X CD (Heaven and earth) is available in
any internet stores? I can't find it in none, only in Discipline Records
site.

ADRIAN CAGNANI

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 16:57:13 -0500
From: badams2 at guilford dot edu
Subject: GIG REVIEW: Philly Fri 11/18

All I can say is wow.  I came all the way up from School in North Carolina
to see this show, and even the day after I'm still feeing the energy.  This
was my first King Crimson gig, and hopefully not my last.  I got their nice
and early so I could get as close to the stage as I could, and much to my
delight not too long after I got there, they were doing a sound check.
Here's what they played if anyone is interested.

1. Red
2. Into the Frying Pan
3. Cage
4.  Larks Part 4

Because of my being early I was actually the first person in, and I picked
my spot right between Adrian, and Robert.  I'll just cut to the chase now.
I absolutely loved this show.  I was there grooving the whole time.  Maybe
Trey is right, King Crimson is becoming a dance band .  The set list, as
far as I can remember was:

1. Larks 4
2. Construkction of Light
3. Frying Pan
4. Prozakc Blues
5. Improv / Frakctured
6. Thela Hun Ginjeet
7. Improv
8. Dinosaur
9. Improv / Cage
10. VROOOM
Enc 1
11. Deception of the Thrush
12. Elephant Talk
Enc 2
13. Oyster Soup
Enc 3
14. Red

Some highlights for me was them opening up with Larks 4.  I just think it's
a great number, and I loved Robert's 'flying fingers of fate' section.  He
didn't even look at his hands through the whole section.  I was (of course)
amazed by Frakctured, and I enjoyed the different arrangement for it.
During an improv in Cage was a great moment.  Trey was playing some lines
with his bass instrument (not sure what it was), and Robert started to play
the same lines in a kind of call and response sort of thing.  It was just
fun, and Robert, and Trey were enjoying themselves.  One more highlight was
Deception of the Thrush.  First of all, I love this song, but then Trey
took it to a whole new level at the end.  I had tears in my eyes while he
was playing.  He had the whole audience captivated.  And the end of his
section Robert got up, and gave him applause as well.

In Conclusion, King Crimson is a fun band.  They were all having fun
interacting, and just playing music.  Everyone, including Robert, had a
smile on last night for the whole show.  Thank you Robert, Pat, Trey, and
Adrian for the wonderful experience I had, and I'm very glad that I was
able get out to make it all the way up North to see the show.  One last
note, I have read a lot in ET about guys taking their kids to KC shows, and
exposing them to it.  With me, I was taking my Dad, and he enjoyed himself
greatly.

~ Bryan (the one with red spikey hair in front)

------------------------------

End of Elephant Talk Digest #768
********************************