Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #763 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 763 Monday, 13 November 2000 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: One ticket for sale - Town Hall Bruford & Brand X "I feel I'm interrupting your conversation" Wanted: Damage by Sylvian/Fripp Detroit/Mr. Big Ego Fripp Re: Really Pissed At Fripp (RKTreemore at aol dot com) Elephant Talk is For serious KC fans only ProjeKct Four KCCC CD GAMELAN!! Gamelan.....by the way... Re: Gamelan Back then RE;Bruford /Brand X... Last note on Charles Hayward gig review GIG REVIEW: Re: Really Pissed At Fripp Re: GIG REVIEW: Really pissed at Fripp ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:54:37 -0500 From: "William Scully" Subject: GIG BIZ: One ticket for sale - Town Hall I have one ticket for sale (center right orchestra) for the Town Hall show on November 14. I'd like to get face value plus Ticketmaster charges ($52.50). I'm in NE NJ and can meet you in the area beforehand or at the show. Please contact me at billandjoan at peoplepc dot com Thanks, Bill Scully ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:05:08 -0500 (EST) From: HarlequinSound at webtv dot net (Jason Peterson) Subject: Bruford & Brand X Hi guys! First of all let me ask if anyone is going to the KC show at the Supper Club tommorow (the 13th) and want to get together before/during/after the show? (private e-mail) In the liner notes for Brand X's release The X-Files, the 5th and 6th songs on the 2nd disc, Measure The Sky & Here I Am Now, listed as performed by the John Goodsall Project [John Goodsall (guitar), Bill Bruford (drums), Bayete (vocals/keys), Donny harey (bass)] states (written by John Goodsall): "Bill Bruford had an early association with Brand X. He rehearsed with us for a few weeks during the early development of Brand X, but commitments with King Crimson forced him to drop out. When Phil Collins joined as drummer, Bill appeared with us on percussion for some gigs in England. Later I played some rhythm guitar on bill's first solo album. During this early period, Brand X were in the rehearsal studio next to a band from San Francisco called Automatic Man, led by Santana drummer Mike Shrieve, with Bayete (keys/vocals), Pat thrall (guitar) and Donny Harvey (bass). I got together with Bill, Bayete, and Donny to record some songs with a plan towards making a John Goodsall solo album. These tow songs, extremely rare never before release, come from our original demo recordings, which only survived on a single cassette tape, later transferred to DAT. Thier historical value of these tracks more than makes up for the imperfect sound quality - a miracle that they survived at all. " I hope that clears some of the "confusion" up.... I can't wait until tomorrow's KC performance Jason Peterson Harlequin Sound and Design NP: Scar Tissue - Rebuild ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:41:40 +0000 From: Mark Rhodes Subject: "I feel I'm interrupting your conversation" I'm a long time lurker on ET but I've finally been stirred to post. Robert Fripp's Diary entry from 10th November includes the following paragraph. "Directly in front of me: 2 men talking (shouting) at the top of their voices in conversation. This is the archetypical Crimson fan scenario: having such a great time talking (shouting) about past Crimson glories that they are unavailable to the present, & miss Crimson unfolding right in front of them. During "Thrush" (second encore) finally I stopped and said: "I feel I'm interrupting your conversation". The man shouting looked embarrassed & fell quiet. His friend shouted: "Interrupt us!"" This really struck a chord with me. Why do these people go to concerts? I've seen two concerts this year where the evening has been marred by people talking through part, or all of the performance. For example, the two guys at the Eels concert who spent the entire show talking/shouting about how Novacaine For The Soul "Rocks" and then walked out when it was played in a different style from the album track. As Robert Fripp points out, most of the time they're talking about what a fantastic time they had at previous gigs. How do they know what the concert was like if they were shouting at each other all night? On a different subject, I have just received Heavy Construkction and have to say that the first two disks sound excellent to my ears. I've not had the time to listen to the third improv disk properly yet, or watch the concert footage so I can't comment on them, but if the third disk is anything like P3/4/X then it'll do me fine. Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:10:13 -0000 From: "James Maggs" Subject: Wanted: Damage by Sylvian/Fripp Hi There, Has anybody seen a copy of Damage, the Sylvian/Fripp live album available anywhere? I'm trying to track it down but cannot find it for sale or auction anywhere online. I suppose I should ask anyone whose heard it whether it's actually worth searching out. Any opinions? Also, I hunted around the major record stores here in London, UK yesterday (11/11/2000) to see if they had any copies of Heavy ConstruKction. All the stores told me it had been released on the 6th of November but that they had no copies in stock. I guess this just means that none of them realised the release date had been put back but there you go. - -James ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:13:17 -0500 From: Mark Chapman Subject: Detroit/Mr. Big Ego Fripp RKTreemore at aol dot com spouted... - ------------ > Subject: GIG REVIEW: Really pissed at Fripp > Despite finding the new Crimson album unlistenable the two > times I put it on, I brought an open mind to the first Detroit show. > I'm sorry to report that I was not impressed with the band. > > A good buddy and fellow huge fan of Crimson had the same > reaction as me: Fripp's ruined the band. And for what? > For his bloody huge ego, that's what. Everyone, on the count of three, "Treemore...perhaps it's time to MOVE ON!!" Mr. Fripp, Mr. Big Ego, brought coffee ("Frippaccino") out to fans waiting in line in the drizzling rain at the 2nd DC show...not once, but twice. Two nights in a row, I watched Mr. Ego stand sideways and applaud Trey after his beautiful solo sections during the encores. I have been pretty sure I don't want to drive all the way from DC to Philly for more shows, but actually, I've been second-guessing myself just because I enjoyed both nights in W-DC so very much. A friend of mine who doesn't have much money told me he wasn't going to the shows because Bruford and Levin weren't there. He ended up going the 2nd night after hearing about the 1st. Following the show, regarding his previous plans not to attend, he said "I don't know what I was thinking." The recent reviews I've read have been almost entirely positive. If you don't like the new Crim music, perhaps you should go find another band to direct all this emotion towards. ~Chaps dc-et #001 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 01:06:30 GMT From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: Re: Really Pissed At Fripp (RKTreemore at aol dot com) >Fripp's ruined the band. And for what? For his bloody huge ego, that's >what. He didn't want to play with Bruford any more, but instead of > >telling him straight up Fripp creates this huge diversion >of "projeckts" >that was designed to tire Bill out and make it look like >he wasn't >available or resigned.... I have to say that considering that Bill was in one of four projekcts and that was the one that played in only 1 venue for only 4 nights within 50 miles of his home town, getting "tired" seems unlikely. Your comment also assumes that he had nothing better to go to himself - I think Earthworks is doing much more musical things than Crimson right now (less challenging, but definately more musical) and having recently heard the new material, that opinion stays the same (look out for "Come to Dust" from their new album... now THAT is a piece of music). >A similar kind of thing happened with Tony Levin... No, Tony Levin was booked to tour with Seal. If the evil Fripp analogy continues, it was more luck than anything. In any case, Tony seems to think he's going back to Crimson next year (Bass Player Magazine, July 2000). >Six years of his crazy R&D.... Three, actually (ProjeKct Two recorded it's album November 97, ProjeKct One performed 1st December to the 4th December of the same year). In my mind, it seemed as if the final Crimson lineup had been decided by ProjeKct One's debut - but rather than stop everything cold, Bruford was given an opportunity to do anything he wanted for 4 nights, within travelling distance of his home, with a Crimson splinter group to bow out. What did he do almost as soon as he left the stage (and perhaps earlier)?? Reformed Earthworks, which was bound to take up any time that would have been focused on Crimson. Levin got two of the ProjeKcts to show himself off in (probably because he had two playing styles to give - sticks, synth basses & uprights in ONE and odd looking basses & uprights in FOUR, but this is tenuous...). When ProjeKct Four was over, what did he do? Liquid Tension Experiment 2, Situation Dangerous and (the main thing to remember in this theory)The Waters of Eden album + tour. Adrian Belew had to be there if Crimson were ever going to have a singer again (who could do it now, if we're honest?). And obviously Fripp because - no matter how many times he says it isn't the case - without him, it's not Crimson. Gunn was in all four (so he was in from the start obviously), and Mastelotto was needed for drumming, since Belew was busy with guitars (and "devices" now, it seems). To end, Fripp has the smallest ego I have ever encountered in a musician. His glittering praise of (in my mind) very very dull guitarists like Steve Vai & Joe Satriani and saying how they do things he could never do, then going on to pan a critic who said he was BETTER than all these players proves that I think. Or is that just Fripp manipulating the crowds again? Trust him. As far as music goes, I certainly do. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:50:43 EST From: Scour12345 at aol dot com Subject: Elephant Talk is For serious KC fans only I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Certain King Crimson institutions such as the K.C. Colector's Club, and Elephant-Talk are for extremely serious and dedicated K.C. fans only. Anyone even slightly under this status need not bother be included in either of the above. Why even bother? Writing to the ET newsletter, and the DGM guestbook whining, bitching, and moaning about what you don't like or approve of as far as KCCC releases, and live KC gigs is simply a waste of your time, and a waste of everyone else's time as well. Hey, I have an solution for you: don't go to the KC shows. Don't join the K.C. collector's club. Like I said, these sacred KC institutions are reserved for the serious and dedicated King Crimson fan only. Not the pretentious, self-righteous bore who likes to think of himself as a "true" Crimso fan. And here's another personal warning that I have for anyone who's even thinking about yelling, being obnoxious, or bringing any flash cameras,to the 11/17 show in Philadelphia: You will have me to deal with if you do, so consider yourself warned. If I spend $40 to see KC (a band that probably won't be coming back to Philly for at least another 4-5 years)and one of you is rude enough to ruin the show out of pure ignorance, I promise you I will personally see to it that you regret it. If I have to personally confiscate someone's camera and hand it to the soundman, or Fripp himself, I'll do it. All I have to say is: respect is a 2-way street. Period. Enough said. - Dave [ Dave> Elephant-Talk [are] for extremely serious and dedicated K.C. fans only No, ET is simply for anyone interested -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:52:27 -0700 (MST) From: Andang Kustamsi Subject: ProjeKct Four KCCC CD Is there anyone who wants to trade his/her KCCC CD ProjeKct Four Live in San Francisco with other KCCC CD? I have King Crimson Live at Beat Club, Bremen, Live in Central Park, NYC and Live at Moles Club, Bath. Please send me email if you are interested to trade. Thanks, -Andang Yet another KC fan. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:19:53 -0500 From: "Eric / Susan Young" Subject: GAMELAN!! My Friends - Goodness!......thank you so much for your replies concerning my (foolish) invitation for tapes of Gamelan music. There have been twelve requests so far, and I promise to get to everyone as soon as humanly possible. For those who have responded, and to those to whom I may have not yet replied, please just send me a blank ninety-minute tape with your name and address enclosed in a note, and PLEASE tell me whether you wish me to use Dolby C for the recording!! It is better, I feel - no matter what nay-sayers think, but I will not use Dolby if you prefer. If you would be so thoughtful as to include, as well, two or three bucks for shipping back to you, I just may be able to afford a few Christmas gifts for family this year! Please believe me; I intend to make no money from this! I do NOT wish to be chased down by some authority for bootlegging!!! Egad, what have I done?! I am merely offering this to friends who may enjoy opening their world to this music, THAT'S ALL. Very busy indeed , Eric Young ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:41:55 -0500 From: "Eric / Susan Young" Subject: Gamelan.....by the way... Hey again - Look, I am so sorry to be taking up yet more space, but the author of said ''Hammerhead'' piece, by the University Of Delaware's Gamelan ensemble, has just sent me a mp3 of the song! He has given me the okay to send it to whomever, so just ask me privately and I promise this will be the last Gamelan entry by me for good!! Thanks again - I'm outta here. Eric Young eyoung at ezol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:12:16 EST From: Sylsteph at aol dot com Subject: Re: Gamelan > I agree with those who say the 80's Crim has a gamelan influence. May be this unfluence was there in Fripp's earliest works too. Quite by coincidence, Richard Pinhas, who had always claimed to be a great fan of Fripp's works (especially with Eno), put out a record of balinese music recordings (it was called "Bali Barong") on his label Disjuncta Record (which put out Heldon and Zao records too). I don't think this album is available on CD. That doesn't mean that Pinhas has discovered gamelan music by the means of Fripp's music at that time but this is a very curious coincidence anyway ! Stephane Fougere Traverses, the "other progressive musics" www.multimania.com/traversesmag/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:44:07 CET From: "Marcus Enochsson" Subject: Back then Uhm, hi again, Just can't keep from this adoreable list that give me so much enjoyment, facts and laughs. God bless you all! Well, I won't reply directly to the post about Fripp's ego, that made me feel things that were very repliable (I am quite certain that it will be replied to enough anyway), but instead take the subject to a side note. Let's assume that mr. Fripp is the man with an aim for KC. Let's assume that he indeed is the one who says where the band should go. He may not be a dictator, but the "leader" of the band. He also contributes a lot to the compositions within the band, and, most importantly, is the integral part of KC's image towards the rest of the world (that is, the part of the world that isn't part of KC). Today, I kind of regard mr. Fripp as the red line of KC, from it's birthday until tomorrow (which is always a day away). And I also think of him as the focus, leader and guider of KC. But to those of you who were there at the time, was Fripp already in the primal days seen as the whole KC to the extent that he sadly often is today? Was Greg the leader then? And what about Wetton? Is mr. Fripp's publically assumed role as the eternal leader of KC a consequence of us looking back in the history of KC or has he always been the driving and directing force? Sincerely, Marcus Enochsson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:46:48 -0500 (EST) From: marty steinberg Subject: RE;Bruford /Brand X... Hi..Long time reader...first post....( sounds like a caller to NPR's 'Talk Of the Nation'... Firstly...there have been a Number of drummers passing thru the ranks of Brand X...Having seen Them with Most ( and being aquainted with One Not even mentioned in these posts...I'll Review...) Unlike one posty States..."Masques" is NOT Brand X 'First Album....Chuck Burgii was NOT the First Drummer ( at Least as far as recording is concerned....) Phill Collins helped 'Form' Brand X With Bass Player Percy Jones...(an Incredible player...an frequent winner of "magazine Players Polls...) to Make some of the chops he found interesting in the " Jazz Fusion" meliue avaialable to him...as Genesis moved more and more towards a "Mainstreem Sound"....and Thus the need for Phills Exeptional Drumming began being Underutilized,,, The First Album " UNORTHODOX BEHAVIOR" featured Phill, Percy, John Godsall, on guitar and (?) Lumley on Keyboards...Phill collins...while loving playing with Brand X...was unavailable to Tour with the band...but Sporadicaly. Filling in for Phil on Tour was the Excellent ( and yes believe it or not NEARLY Deaf ) drummer...Kenwood Denard...who toured with the band frequently in the US ( I saw them open for Wether Report, at "My Fathers Place" on Long Island New York. in the mid 70's...) I also Saw Brand X Open For John McGlaughlin one year later at the ( Then) Shaefer Music Festival in Central Park New York( Perhaps the VERY YEAR I saw the King Crimson Concert So wonderfuly Documented on The Collectors Club CD......)in Passing...tickets for these shows were a mere $ 5.50 as i recall.....When Brand X opened for McGlaughlin...John Godsall had "tendonitus" and Percy Jones Took almost all the Guitar solos on Bass.!! Burghi DID join Brand X For the Masque Album, and MAY have toured as well...though I missed these dates....I'm Unawares of Any U.S. Tour of Brand X with Brufford, Though this WOULD have been a Revelation....and a wonder to behold. Phil & Bill Were Good enough friends at the time...That Bill Acted as the Drummer on The FIRST Genesis Tour WITHOUT Peter Gabriel, when Phil Came out Front for the first time ( Though Hiding behind a long, Scruffy Beard..).....and "Beacame" the Front Man/Singer that those of us Folowing the band new he could be. There was a ! Full Page add Taken out in the N.Y. Times with the LARGE headline " Genesis 'FEATURING BILL BRUFORD' somwhat Larger than the actual name of the band. I Saw This Show In N.Y. at The Beacon Theater.....and it was AMAIZING to witness Phill & Bill Durring the Tunes they played Together...( Los Endos...etcetc) I think the only time the two have performed "live" together a couple of tunes of this lineup are documented, of Course,on the GENESIS, " Seconds Out" album, I think its called.. ...In addition this show was Filmed, and it was shown at the very same Beacon Theater in N.Y. a couple of years later...which I attended as well....Quite a "dejaVu" Event. I Lost Contact with the "exploits" of The "interchanging Drummers of Brand X, when I moved from N.Y. To Tahoe in 1979....But i Know Kenwood appears on the Brand X "Live" Disc....and his fabulous druming can be heard on several Other sessions, and Jazz Fusion Dates...if you keep your eyes peeled..... Marty S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:53:23 -0500 From: Bob Pascarella Subject: Last note on Charles Hayward Clive wrote: >Huh? This is news to me. Hayward isn't credited on Camembert Electrique, >and it sure sounds like Pip throughout. Nobody is credited on Continental >Circus, and you're the first person I've ever heard suggest that Pip wasn't >the sole drummer on that album. Where do you get this info from? My brother was involved in US distribution of certain Canterbury Artists in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Much of his documentation and "stuff" is now in my possession. I've always been a fan of Gong, Hatfield, Hillage and many others and make it a point to remember musician lineups. I only remember this particular drummer NOT from the actual album, but from discology information that was in my brother's collection. I found a document from Spalax (I assume this was the record label) that listed musicians in Gong during certain periods of the band. Hayward is listed as Drummer during the period of these two record releases. NOT SPECIFICALLY ON EITHER ALBUM. This is all I know. Please accept my apologies if this information in incorrect or has caused confusion. Robert Pascarella ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:00:20 -0500 From: "Dennis Wiens" Subject: gig review Good day. I'll try this here. If you read this, I hope I am not to long winded, but I have some observations I need to make a commentary on. Pat stated in a comment about the quietness of the Detroit Sunday night audience, "We [Kc] almost did not return for any encores because it seemed so quiet we felt we didn't deserve it." I felt the ovation at the end of the concert was definitely reserved and it has me in a quandary. I have performed in front of audiences and I know what if feels like to be in front of one that does not seem to respond. It makes the performance feel like a lot more work. (for some it IS work, as in "making a living" .. some days are easy, some hard.) But I know the audience around me at the Kc concert was very enthusiastic. So this leads me to the question; when looking at an audience as a single entity, could the performer(s) misinterpret the reactions of the audience? I believe the answer is yes. (Pat. please hear me out) I would like to look at ambience, visual, body movement and audio aspects of a concert and use four different concerts to exemplify my point. (2 Bob Dylan, 1 Soulfly and 1 Kc in Detroit) 1. Initial ambience must play a roll in any concert. Pat and Robert both gave their diatribes on the Detroit venue. I'm sure this would affect any performance and I don't need to expound. As for a member of the audience, I am always uncomfortable in that part of Detroit. Maybe I'm just paranoid but I know others also feel this way. When walking into the venue the line "this is a dangerous place" came to my mind. There was also a sense of paranoia. Many people verbalized their fear of others not respecting the wishes of the band. In fact, some members of the audience had to act as "parents" to people that decided to light and smoke joints, reminding them of the policies. During the first song there was a camera flash and you could feel the paranoia hit a new level. Of course there is also the element of "level of inebriation", which Trey alludes to. This is always a factor. I saw Dylan once in a small city hockey arena were all the seating was at floor level. There were no notices of "no smoking" and "no photography" but there were a dozen or so officials with flashlights that went around flashing their flashlights at people "lighting up" and taking pictures making the atmosphere VERY tense. Even Dylan jeered many times, as this was quite a distraction for him. At a recent Soulfly concert (a contemporary metal band that my son took me to see), the bands performing demanded an atmosphere of aggression. When the floor (mosh pit) was not being aggressive enough, some of the bands actually became verbally abusive using much profanity. This bothered me quite a bit (but my son assures me that they were just trying to "pump up the crowd"). Now this is something I would normally not choose to go see but there were some elements of good musicianship that I did enjoy. I did not have any part of the aggression. Did this make me a bad audient? My son says no. So an audient can choose to not to act on the atmosphere but it can't be ignored. 2. Visualization is another part of the concert experience. Kc is very professional in how the band members appear although each does it in his own way. Just because Adrian, many times had a huge smile while Robert would give the occasional grin does not mean Robert is enjoying himself less. Pat stated that the crowd did not look like they were enjoying themselves. I smiled a lot. My son did not. I asked him if he had a good time. He said he had a great time. I mentioned he looked very serious he stated to me that there were many times that the visual and audible kaleidoscope he was experiencing left him in an almost hypnotized state. I think many people in the crowd were in a state of awe. With the Soulfly concert, I mentioned to my son that it looked like a lot of the audience was angry. The pushing in the pit actually looked like rage. He assures me that that is part of the fun. (go figure) If a person does not look like he's having a good time does not mean he is not. 3. Movement. Yes, you can dance and bop to Kc music. I sure am glad people don't mosh with Kc. But again, look at the differences in the band members. Adrian moves quite a lot. Trey likes to sway around. Pat moves with precise articulate motions, not thrashing like some drummers. And then there's Robert. Watch him close. He moves. He shakes, but you really have to look hard. Somehow I can't picture him as a type of audient that would jump around a lot and punch his fist in the air. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) There was lots of movement around me on Sunday in Detroit. Many people would bounce and raise their hands, pointing at Adrian as if to say "you're the man!!" and Adrian would point his guitar neck back at them and smile as if to say, "there you go you crazy audient you!!!" No lack of enthusiasm there. 4. And then there's the sound. The sound of the band definitely determines how the concert goes. Kc's musicianship is the tops. Many people attest to this. Pat had concerns about the sound system in Detroit. I have never heard a band with such clean sound. Some sound level mix ups could be heard but I was amazed through out. If anything, I thought it could be louder. (I noticed Trey motioning to the sound person that all should be turned up. It did go up a bit) But what about the crowd. Well I can tell you that there was a lot of cheering near me. In particular, during solos many people would shout for joy. When Robert would solo I heard many "Go Robert Go". In between songs a few men called out many times, "we love you Robert". It takes a lot for men to cheer in this way. But did the band hear this? I saw Bob Dylan in a large NHL hockey arena. I snuck up to the front and was amazed at how loud the crowd was at singing along with Bob. WOW. At the concert in the small venue I mentioned before, there was very little singing. A few times Bob complained. "I can't hear you." He seemed to get more frustrated as the evening progressed. In some ways I'm sure there was the awe factor at work. But Bob had the same sound system he used at the NHL arena. It was very LOUD. We were in a sense blown away. How could we sing? So did he think we were not enjoying the show because he could not hear us? So then we come to the end of the Kc concert. The ovation was quiet, I agree. Why? Again, I find it hard to believe that a man like Robert Fripp would be the type to hoot and holler at the top of his lungs. (again, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm being quite presumptuous but my point is, people react different.) Could it be that the crowd had many reserved type characters like Robert? (its just a joke) But I don't know the make up of the crowd. I do know that some paranoia came up again. Some people insisted on lighting up joints for the encore. Some "parent" type people did do some scolding. The level of ovation reminded me of the end of the Soulfly concert. Most of the audience did not applaud. It was more of an audible roar. I had never experienced this before and I was sure that this was just a new experience for me but it came back again at Kc. It felt a little freaky. After the first encore, the buzz on the floor was, "they have to do another encore. All four should end the concert." (encore 1 ended with "Thrush" without Adrien") Well all four did come out. (thank you) I think most people were unaware that Kc does sometimes play 3 encores. How many big name bands play more than one pre-set encore? I've seen very few. So after the 2nd encore, many people thought it was over. (It might have been but I kept cheering) When people realized the lights were not coming on they started the roar again but then the lights did come on. So I did find the ovation a little reserved but I know the enthusiasm was there. One thing about the "full of tension" Bob Dylan concert. When he ended his main part of the show, the crowd jumped up and pushed there way up to the stage. Bob was genuinely moved. Yes, the crowd did appreciate the concert. He proceeded to play a whole set, not just a small encore. The band was notably confused. He was pulling out songs you could tell the band had not practiced. At times he would motion to the band members to "come on. Go ahead and join in". It was a sight to behold. So, did King Crimson get a good ovation that they deserved? Probably not. Did the band "deserve" to play an encore. DAMN RIGHT!! Did the audience appreciate the show? YES. YES. YES!! Is it possible the band misinterpreted the crowd? I've seen it happen before. Yes it is possible. Thank you VERY VERY much that you did come out!! Please sir(s) could we have some more? Best regards, Dennis Wiens ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:19:39 -0500 From: "Andrew Fignar Jr." Subject: GIG REVIEW: Re: Really Pissed At Fripp I don't want to comment on Detroit's Sunday show. I was at Monday's show and my view of the show was quite different, then this post I'm replying to from ET#762. Fripp was in a great mood. I found myself waiting for new material to be performed as I found that the most interesting. The exchange between Fripp and Belew was amazing. Are they joined at the hip? The timing was impeccable and the interplay on Lark's Tongue was very cool. Not to diss the poster here, as I talked to a friend who also went to Sunday's night show and said it was OK, but something was missing. He preferred the double trio shows in 96. I myself like both. Bruford and Levin not being there was no loss, Pat and Trey are amazing. The mix of new and old confirms the new CD as Crimson. No doubt I have a better appreciation of the new material. New arrangements of the old were nice too. Nice to see these songs are not static. When Levin played with the CGT in March here in Detroit, he confirmed to be in the band still. He didn't seem in no way to be upset. I have to agree about The (anything but) Majestic Theater. It sucks, but many venues here in Detroit are similar. My guess is Fripp likes the Cafe attached to the venue. The Majestic Cafe is a nice little place where the band can get something to eat late at night, w/o having to leave the venue as they are connected. A full bar too. The Majestic could put out seats. I have gone to shows there with wooden chairs. Maybe the road manager can work something out to have chairs put out in the future. For how much we are paying to see these shows, we should have chairs. Monday's show was very different from Sunday's with a different set list. I think I saw a better show. The band being able to rest in the same city I would speculate translated to a great performance Monday night. So many in the audience had huge smiles on their face, and comments of amazement were heard by me from many. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:27:29 -0700 From: Jon Lybrook Subject: Re: GIG REVIEW: Really pissed at Fripp >And we know who is responsible for the music, and the band. Bummer this person didn't have the great experience we all had in Denver. It was very close to being as compelling as the double trio which toured five years prior. The band has commented in their diaries about how bad the recent shows were in Detroit. It happens, and it's a chance we take when going to a live performance. No reason to condemn the band and their methods though, however disappointing. Maybe consider writing a letter to the owner of your local theater instead. While I agree that TCOL is not the resonant masterpiece that other KC albums have been for me, I see it has potential to be. I expect it will work it's way into our hearts as they continue to push their music and the culture forward. I'm sure there are plenty of us who didn't like or even know what to think of the tune "Elephant Talk" when it first tickled our eardrums. Why it is that KC doesn't tour with the material for a while, then produce an album after they have given the work a chance to gel in front of live audiences is an interesting question. Historically it's been because that's the way the music industry wanted it done so they could push sales of the new album which needed to pay for itself. Since DGM writes it's own ticket, it seems that KC could certainly do it differently if they wished. I also think the band's current and previous members may have more influence with Robert and the direction of KC than RKTreemore gives them credit for. I'll be interested to read the translated Polish interview he purports to be insightful on this subject, however. As far as RKT's assertions about the ProjeKcts and Robert's "crazy R&D", I disagree. After having seen P4 in concert twice and hearing excerpts from the ProjeKcts 1234 Box Set, I noted what a priviledge it was to have access to KC works in progress. What other bands do you know that have opened themselves up (albeit, for a price) and given such a clear window into their creative process? Much more so than VROOOM, the ProjeKcts lend insight into how certain studio tracks from TCOL evolved, and perhaps lend a clue as to what is yet to come. If one likes their milk pasteurized, that's fine, but no reason to complain about everything else coming from the dairy. Sorry to hear RKT & Co. got a sour bottle delivered to their doorstep. Jon ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #763 ********************************