Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #761 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 761 Saturday, 11 November 2000 Today's Topics: Where is CAGE from? One Happy Camper Re: What exactly is "Cage"? kc/hawkwind further connections Boz Mel & Ian RULE! Common Rules Rule! Crimsons Shows Heavy ConstruKction Bruford & Brand X Bill & Pat Bruford 30th Anniversary Releases David Cross HEAVY CONSTRUKCTION KCCCComments What Cage is GIG REVIEW: 9:30 Club 8 Nov 00 GIG REVIEW: tiny bubbles in dc, 11/8/00 GIG REVIEW: 9:30 club Washington DC GIG REVIEW: KC DC 11/8 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:32:09 EST From: AlfredDodson at aol dot com Subject: Where is CAGE from? to the person enquiring, The song CAGE is from the VROOOM EP that was released just before THRAK. I still think they are available through DGM? adios ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 23:09:24 -0500 From: "Dave's Not Here" Subject: One Happy Camper Hi Et-ers, I was recently able to join KCCC after a year plus of waiting and watching and reading in envy. I have made my first selection, the Summit '72 concert, and I just want to say how thrilled I am with this CD (I have also picked up a copy of The Beginner's Guide to KCCC, splendid idea). Thanks to Robert Fripp, DGMUSA and EU, and to KC, in all of its wonderful incarnations, without whom none of this would be possible. Nice to be able to kick back in my dotage and fall into dreams of yesteryear against such evocative sounds. . . David A. Sage Guelph, Ontario Canada P.S. Never have understood what all the fuss is/was about this particular band. I think they sound just fine on this CD--I know, I know, USA _is_ brutal, but here is evidence that they are a good band, yes? Always did like Mel Collins' work with most everyone he worked with back in the day and I think the other members of this band have been unfairly maligned over the years. It sounds great to me . . . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 01:05:12 EST From: "Suzanne DeCory" Subject: Re: What exactly is "Cage"? labguest wrote: >I'm sorry to be such an ignoramus, but I would like to know, what is >the >deal with this song "Cage" that the band has been playing >throughout this >tour? All I know is that it's not an original of >KC's, or am I mistaken? >Please inform. >Ben What a remarkable song indeed! One of my favorites. What I wouldn't give to hear it live ... What exactly is Cage? Hmm... well, everyone would have to listen to the lyrics for their own personal interpretations. To me, briefly, the song's lyrics seem to be expressing some of the imprisonments of the world, and minds, we are surrounded by and live in, including our own. "Cage" was written by King Crimson (lyrics by Adrian) and can be found on VROOM and also Adrian Belew's 'Salad Days' C.D. (which is a great CD if you haven't heard yet) Suz :) Let us live the highest vision of what is possible... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 08:34:40 GMT From: "Spear man" Subject: kc/hawkwind the shortest route on the KC connection to hawkwind I could come up with is fripp->eno->robert calvert. eno's on the Robert Calvert Album Captain Lockheed and the starfighters and calvert was in hawkwind. Of course you can connect it to Amon Duul's Die Loesung album which calvert is on and so is Ed and Joie of Ozric Tentacles. I think Gilli Smyth of Gong is on this album too--and then there's the nik turner connection with mother gong and hawkwind, but a rather circuitous connection to KC Now the fun one to connect is King Crimson and Ferrante and Teicher. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 09:01:10 GMT From: "Spear man" Subject: further connections then there's kc and tangerine dream and gary numan and the who and iron maiden and dio and gregory isaacs and marillion and the kinks and omd and flock of seagulls and the small faces and mike oldfield and rick wakemen and the mary jane girls and steve earle and the dukes and johnny gill spearman kills the thread ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:31:20 +0100 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Boz Mel & Ian RULE! Yesterday's night drive saw a through listen of Live At Jacksonville 1972 at brutal volume. Wow! I mean, speaking of sickness, this release comes directly after the glorious Heaven And Earth CD. After a few seconds any worries about bad sounds are gone, and the music floods in - and it's driving, pumping, hard music. GREATGREATGREAT These "exceptional players" do a very great job here. Mel obviously is a beast, playing so sick that one might think he has just been in the recording sessions of Sheik Yerbouti or so. Ian's drums are great, hey Ian! your solo beats the hell out of you! And Boz IS a cool singer! Raw, bluesy, yes, the right voice for this sick stuff. And it seems that all but Robert's instruments are represented here in the right way, you rarely can hear the guitar how it should be, so one feels that really Mel dominates the live scene (maybe comes from the bootleg mix). I hope we can hear some other stuff from this band as well as some studio jams one day. Good work, thanks! This release popped up a few questions n topics for me: 1) The man from the Guitar Stool writes, "Mel, Boz and Ian continued on with Alexis Korner with whom we'd been sharing the bill" - does this mean that the 1972 King Crimson parted into two Crimsons? Fripp went on forming new, and the other guys played on with Alexis? Recordings? 2) Can anybody recommend me an album with the sickest music of Mel Collins? And here's another clue for you all: Mel played with Dire Straits during the 80's, and he also joined forces with Robert Fripp on David Sylvian's "Gone To Earth". Keep on roKcing! King Crimson Rules!!! Markus ...and some new music for ETers: - - JANSEN / BARBIERI / KARN - Ism (Steve's drums are exceptional!) - - JOHN WETTON / RICHARD W. PALMER-JAMES - Monkey Business 1972-1992 - - KLAUS SCHULZE - Contemporary Works I (new 10 CD release) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:10:47 +0100 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Common Rules Rule! Hey, a few random ideas here but first... HI THERE! "Even at these shows people yelled at the quiet moments..." Yes. Such stupid assholes were among the recent Jan Garbarek concert in Linz, clapping their hands arrogantly and ignorantly as soon as they "thought" one of the solos of one of these exceptional musicians was over. Jan looked a bit worried all the time, and wonder? I mean, the great Rainer Bruninghaus plays a quite different piano solo and when Jan has to set in he can't hear his own blow (hehe... Blow Your Own Horn - Herb Alpert) because all these stupid people have to send in their noise. But after all, if you have only a BIT of intelligence - I mean, a bit more than knowing what the text on the CD cover means - you know how to behave at a concert. Common rules and stuff. Like... don't speak when others speak. Let them talk, then you talk. Let the guys play, then you play. Or scream or shout. And variations on this, who come from "common rules": You should KNOW when to do what and when and how. Not only because Robert says it but after all you also KNOW not to beat down guys in the street or steal somebody's car. Now I'll shut up and concentrate on the collector's multiple orgasms... HEAVY CONSTRUKCTION HAS ARRIVED! See ya Markus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:52:57 -0800 From: "Dave Gaither" Subject: Crimsons Shows Rather than be one more person complaining about the set list, missing members,venues with poor acoustics (or lack of seats) , or most recent offering by Crimson, I chose to avoid the shows and wait on buying TCOL. I have been a fan since ITCOTCK , but have no time for ego or discomfort. If I pay 30 or 40 dollars for a ticket, I expect a show and a seat. The fact (as many have pointed out) that Mr. Fripp will "adjust" the show based on the token overzealous patron, makes me think I'll buy the CD and avoid all that. The choice of venues without seats was the clincher for me. It's not a rave, and I don't do the kind of drugs that would keep me happily standing for 2 hours anymore.If you chose to see the show in the venue you did, be happy you saw the band and quit whining. There are many more interesting things to talk about beside the dead horse issues of who isn't in the band, and trying to compare the latest CD to ANYTHING they did in the past. Dave Gaither dgtz56 at sonic dot net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:48:26 GMT From: "Danny Anderson" Subject: Heavy ConstruKction Say there folks, it seems like only a day or so ago when I wrote my review of the 3 CD release, Heavy ConstruKction. Since then I have found it at another record store here in Portland and yesterday I received my mail order copy. Can anybody find an answer to some questions here? 1. Did I misduplicate DGM and think that this was going to be a concert/mail order release only? 2. Did I also misread the DGM newsletter and think that the release would be mailed out on the 13th due to a mastering defect in disc 2? 3. Have I been blessed by the gods that govern Krimz'n and the rest of you have to wait? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:02:48 -0500 (EST) From: jeremysw at umd5 dot umd dot edu Subject: Bruford & Brand X >Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 14:47:50 -0000 >From: Clive Backham >Subject: Let's clear up the Gong stuff. > >I have, and shall always remain, a much bigger Gong fan than Crimson fan. >So let's sift through the various bits and pieces of info and mis-info >that appeared in ET#758... > >Peter.K.Geddes said: >>Bill Bruford was in an early version of Brand X (or so I've heard), >>whose drum chair was later filled by Gong's Pierre Moerlen. > >I'm 99% sure Bruford was never in Brand X. That band's original drummer >was Phil Collins. Later on, Brand X had two main rhythm sections: John >Giblin/Collins, and Percy Jones/Mike Clarke. When Brand X reformed a few >years ago the drummer was Frank Katz. Pierre Moerlen toured with Brand X >for a bit, but never made an album with them. The only official recording >I know of with Moerlen in Brand X is a couple of bonus live tracks on >"Manifest Destiny". Bruford was instrumental in the formation of Brand X, but was never really in it. IIRC, Collins & Bruford had discussed putting a fusion band together while Bruford was in Genesis in 1976. I'm not sure as to why he decided not to be in the band, but you're right the first line-up has just Collins as the drummer. I find it interesting that the two of them were both into making fusion bands and they both came out with very good albums from these projects in the 70s (Brand X & Bruford). I wonder what would have happened if they did decide to stay in one group as they had thought originally. - --Jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 15:13:46 -0800 From: "David Isaak" Subject: Bill & Pat From Eight Binks <> I disagree that BB is over-rated. I agree that Pat Mastelotto is superb. Frankly, I think that comparing them is a pointless exercise. They are both great; they both have very different styles. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 20:39:07 -0500 From: "Bill Kraemer" Subject: Bruford BRUFORD IS GOD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 23:43:38 EST From: AudandGil at aol dot com Subject: 30th Anniversary Releases I ordered the 30th ann. releases of Larks Tongue & S&BB through CDNOW. The S&BB is clearly marked 30th ann., 24 bit remix, & copyright 2000. The Larks Tongue though seems to be an exact rerelease of the 1989 "Definitive Edition", (Caroline EGCD7), with no book or references to 24 bit remaster or 2000 release. Did I get ripped off?? Note: the S&BB is a German release. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:01:21 -0800 From: "Hugh Shiebler" Subject: David Cross My question of "why" regarding David Cross's version of Exiles was specifically about he decision to remake that particular song. David Cross's contributions to 74-74 Crimson are incomparable; I am happy to know that he is alive and well and still making music. I have listened to his album "Exiles" several times now, at a variety of volumes, and I think that it has some great moments. I love the Cross/RF Soundscapes piece, and the song "This is your Life" is starting to grow on me. And its great to hear that unique, haunting, David Cross electric violin "voice" - - that NOT-Jobson NOT-Ponty could-only-be-one-person sound. As far as I can tell, however, the original version of "Exiles" was as close to perfect as a simple song can get. Any re-make would be bound to sound pale and wan in comparison; and, to my ears, David's does. To me it sounds like "Kansas does the greatest hits of King Crimson", managing to sound both generic and cliched, things that Crimson, for all of its perceived excesses, never did. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:16:14 +0100 From: "Girard, Serge [JanBe Extern]" Subject: HEAVY CONSTRUKCTION Yesterday got HEAVY CONSTRUKCTION and it's really a MUST ! Special thanks to Robert, Adrian, Trey and Pat ! Serge Girard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:48:11 +0000 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: KCCCComments In ET 759 David Isaak wrote: > Anybody who manages to order a KCCC recording and doesn't > like what they get has no one but themselves to blame. This is quite correct. I had one I didn't like (The Moles Club, because the sound was so poor). The reason I got it was I forgot to cancel it, so it was absolutely my fault. I don't accept most of the releases: it's quite easy, I just mail the club and say "no thanks" by the agreed date. As David suggests, it's all quite straightforward if you RTFM. So, back to my unwanted Moles CD, where I compounded my error ny opening it up... I posted an ad on ET saying it was up for grabs, saying exactly why I wanted rid of it, and had several offers. So I got my money back, someone else got a boot-quality CD they reported as liking very much. DGM/KCCC effectively sell a CD to a happy punter, everybody's happy. (Except Christian, apparently...) Pete. - -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:58:40 +0000 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: What Cage is In ET 759 Ben asked: > I'm sorry to be such an ignoramus, but I would like to know, what is the > deal with this song "Cage" that the band has been playing throughout > this tour? All I know is that it's not an original of KC's, or am I > mistaken? It is an original, found on the VROOOM album-ette issued by the Double Trio incarnation before the THRAK release. You can also find it on the first DGM sampler "Sometimes God Hides". Pete. (Was going to mail this direct, but an email like "labguest at bard dot edu" suggests it might not get to the intended recipient...) - -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:52:23 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Wasser Subject: GIG REVIEW: 9:30 Club 8 Nov 00 So anyone who was at the 9:30 Club (D.C.) show on Wednesday night has to admit that Fracktured was absolutely the best song of the night. Those guys rocked! They were very heavy, very heavy. Adrian has a great sense of humor. He is a riot. I even saw Robert crack a few smiles. It's obvious why Trey is such a great bass player (can you say that? bass?). His fingers are long. Pat did some amazing things. Especially during LTIA Pt. IV. Trey played a beautiful song with the stick during the second encore. It was really, really, beautiful. So when I left my house to go to the concert, I grabbed four pieces of Halloween candy from my kids' stash, figuring I'd munch on it sometime during the night. During the concert, I was literally right in front of Trey Gunn. So, at the end of the main part of the show, I decided to pull out the candy (it was two Butterfingers, a Milky way, and a Kit Kat) and show it to Trey. He was like: what's that? Then he kind of motiioned: yeah, I'll have one. So, I I gave him one. Then Pat saw me and he, too, said he'd like a piece. So, I gave him one, too. In exchange, Pat gave me a drum stick (it's cool: a Vic Firth stick with KRIMSON and "Pat" on it.) Then, during the (second?) encore, I gave Trey the other two pieces, for Robert and Adrian. Long story short: At the end of the show, Robert looked at the candy and decided to throw them into the crowd. Woo-hoo! What a riot! Those guys are great! Dan ........................................................ iWon.com http://www.iwon.com why wouldn't you? ........................................................ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 00:14:32 -0500 From: "T.J. Mathews" Subject: GIG REVIEW: tiny bubbles in dc, 11/8/00 can't sleep too engulfed in crim love All four band members smiled many times tonight at the 930. Very little grimacing was observed from my own, arrived at 4pm, front and center spot. All sweat. Me too. We there took it in as well as we could and perhaps gave back as well. I take a chance and suggest that this dc crowd got it right. "We" included one 15 year old gal with her brother and a group of 18 year old guys, and many other young faces. Yes the "moved on" can be replaced. Crim can continue to take in it's rare air and spread their brilliant hue upon us. this was the roar of a lion nightnight bubbleman - dc-et2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:50:51 GMT From: "Jon Benfield" Subject: GIG REVIEW: 9:30 club Washington DC Some observations: There were more females at this show than any of the other two KC shows I have seen. There was one beautiful blonde on the edge of the balcony who did an erotic dance to the delightful strains of our heroes...I was distracted by her on more than one occasion! The venue was 3 blocks from Howard University, which led me to believe that it would be a nice neighborhood, but the guy that said it was a rough neighborhood was right. We saw at least 4 liquor stores (all caged up)on the way to the gig, and were solicited for spare change several times. I felt like the guy in the song CAGE. The neighborhood was trashed...literally...in fact, I'll have to say that walking from the metro to the gig was one of my scarier city experiences...I'm just a country boy! The 9:30 club is a SUPERB venue for seeing live music. Its an old warehouse with a 3 story ceiling and 4-5 rows of seats in a u-shaped balcony. The artists and the venue were dead serious about the no-devices policy...and to back it up, they had a 300 lb. tattooed biker dude frisking people down at the door. During the second or third song, I noticed a guy with mickey mouse ear microphones attached to his glasses. I also witnessed him getting busted by the extremely large road crew guy. We saw him right away. It took at least an hour for the powers that be to find him. I actually felt sorry for the guy as they forcefully led him out with his head bowed...I did see him outside after the concert, however. Did anybody see if they took his equipment or not? The crowd was great and nobody perpetrated any of the customary violations, except for the guy they busted. I'd say the average age of the bunch was 40, though I did see some college age people there (with their "VCR-stealing pants") and a couple of pre-teens with their parents. I saw 2 African Americans there and several Asians, but it was overwhelmingly white males 35-45 (no surprise). The Music: Let me say that this show has become #1 on my list of best concerts that I have ever seen. Actually 3 of my top five favorites are KC shows. The prefab four (he he) all seemed in excellent spirits, especially ROBERT who had a smile on his face for nearly the entire show! Maybe he isnt such a bitter little man after all! The sound was clear and crisp, except that you couldnt hear Adrian's guitar all that well, especially in RED, ELEPHANT and FRAME. I laughed out loud at least 5 times during the show, like when Robert would let off the occasional amusing screech from his Les Paul during a quiet section. You could have heard the smile in Adrian's voice during "Frying Pan". - ------------- When our heroes first entered the stage, they got together for what I call choking up on the batthat is, they put their fists together in the middle of the stage and hollered in unison as a sign of solidarity, like a baseball team might do before the game. This made me smile! The Setlist: TCOL- I cried (tears of joy) through the whole song...I have never been so moved by a live performance. This has got to be the most beautiful piece of music ever written (biased) I never cry(actually, Ella Fitzgerald scat singing has been known to puddle me up.) PROZAKc BLUES- Adrian seemed to really enjoy this one, playing his solo with a slide. There were lots of people singing along. FRAKcTURED-Pat's drum part was much more (for lack of a better word) "rhythmic" than on the studio version. It seemed he was trying to play more in a standard 4/4 beat (sic...I know its not in 4/4...humor me). I don't know how he kept the beat through Robert's solo! THELA HUN GINJEET Adrian breaks a string during his first solo. Robert laughed at Adrian as he missed his solo and frantically grabbed another guitar provided by the roadie... Fripp just played right thru smiling the whole time FRAME BY FRAME Trey didnt try to duplicate Tonys line. 2 guys behind me talking: 1: "Is that Bill Bruford on Drums?" 2:"No...its some guy called Pat Masterantonio or something Italian like that" DINOSAUR was great but I missed Tonys harmony voice. VROOOM pretty close to the originalFripp used some delay on the Fairy Fingers section. Treys part here was phenomenal. DECEPTION of the THRUSH Trey seemed to direct the improv. he did a lot of walking back to the drum riser to shout things at Pat. This song killed my ears so I got out the old plugsthat lasted for exactly one song! FRYING PAN Prety normal...Adrian couldn't keep from smiling! LARKS IV right before Fripps solo I turned to my friend and said you better hold on to something...! I was amazed that Fripp could sit motionless while the army of mechanical fire ants came over the hill shooting laser acid all over creation. This man has to be the fastest ecclectic player ever. ELEPHANT TALK this ruled but unfortunately you couldnt hear Adrian's elephantosity. Pat was all over the place on this one. Pat seems to play with more power than Bruford. While people were yelling out Starless I wanted to yell out Broken Wings (he he) first encore THREE OF A PERFECT PAIRthe crowd joined in singing what a rush! This version is perfect for the crowd interaction that the band wanted for this tourand they got it!! IMPROV Trey was amazing on this tune. He used the electronic ebow thingy for a very ethereal piece reminiscent of the Dueling Sticks from Cirkus. Adrian came out to the alcoves above the balcony and waved at us!! Trey put on a beautiful show for this oneRobert got up and gave him a standing ovation (we would have stood up had we been sitting!) RED- PAT went to bat again all over the placepretty standard otherwise. HEROES Fripp throws out object, way up to the top of the seats...I think it was Adrians slide? In conlusion: dont miss this show, please!! If you only see one more concert before you die, it should be KC. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 08:00:43 -0500 From: "baxlap" Subject: GIG REVIEW: KC DC 11/8 The first KC show in DC seemed to be an off night. The band had its moments, and Fripp was more prominent than in the double trio lineup, but the show never took full flight. To begin with, the venue was all wrong. KC should not be playing in a room with working bars (i.e, sell booze in the lobby!). During a quiet moment Frakctured, one could hear a bottle smash in the garbage behind one of the bars. Belew just turned and shrugged. KC belongs in theatres, not clubs. The Warner Theatre, where KC played in '95, would have been idealk, but was probably unavailable due to theatrical commitments. Furthermore, the sound mix was off. In particular, Belew was frequently too low. At one point in Theta Hun Ginjeet, he stopped playing, took off his guitar and just sang until a replacement guitar was brought out. Oy veh! At other times, he'd be strumming furiously, but inaudibly. At least I didn't hear anyone call out for "Cat Food" or see anyone take any flash photos. Anyway, the set list was: Construkction of Light, Prozac Blues, Frakctured, Theta Hun Ginjeet, Frame by Frame, Dinosaur, Vrooom, Improv, Frying Pan, Larks Tongues IV/I Have a Dream, Elephant Talk. First encore: Three of a Perfect Pair (Belew solo acoustic), Improv (Ghost?) (rest of band). Second encore: Red. Third encore: Heroes. The show lasted about 1:50. Andrew Baxley ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #761 ********************************