Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #757 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 757 Sunday, 5 November 2000 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: dc's 9:30 club GIG BIZ: Desperately seeking Hartford tix GIG BIZ: NEED BOSTON TICKET(S) GIG BIZ: Ticket for Supper Club 11/13 Washington, DC/9:30 Club PX Bills drumming and various responses The new Radiohead album KC - What kind of music? RE: Connections Gong-Crimson Re: Exiles Bruford Disc Reviewed Re: remix confusion John Wetton on tour Fripp Diary Ian McDonal works Eno on Ebay Heavy Construction at concerts? GIG REVIEW: TWO NIGHTS IN CHICAGO GIG REVIEW: King Crimson Live at the Modjeska ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 18:29:02 -0500 From: "Jay Black" Subject: GIG BIZ: dc's 9:30 club one extra ticket here. call at work next week, during the day. 804-435-7705. cost. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 10:38:00 -0800 From: Paulo Henrique Leocadio Subject: GIG BIZ: Desperately seeking Hartford tix Greetings! Fellas, I live in Brazil and I am a HUGE Crim fan for more than 25 years now. They are my top above the tops and I come to THE opportunitty of my life: catch them live for the 1st time in my life. Since I am travelling thru the US these oct/nov days, I have the chance to be in Hartford from somewhere else. The fact is: HOW TO GET TICKETS IN ADVANCE? Will there be WillCall available??? THANK YOU VEEEERY MUCH Paulo H ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:39:39 -0500 From: "David Chabon" Subject: GIG BIZ: NEED BOSTON TICKET(S) I am looking for one or two tickets to either show in Boston (11/20 or 11/21). Please e-mail me directly if you have one or two to spare. Thanks, Dave Chabon dsc22 at cornell dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:05:42 EST From: Smashmark at aol dot com Subject: GIG BIZ: Ticket for Supper Club 11/13 Hi.. i have a ticket for the Supper club crinson show that i want to sell........less than face price...... let me know if anyone's interested im in nyc smashmark at aol dot com thanx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 13:31:21 -0500 From: Mark Chapman Subject: Washington, DC/9:30 Club In 756, DonnonMurray at aol dot com wrote... > Subject: GIG BIZ: Need Philly tix / 9:30 Club Opinion > First and foremost, if anyone has up to four extra tickets for the Friday > evening Philladelpia performance, I'll gladly take them. As for the 9:30 > Club in DC, I agree with TJ Mathews - it's got a bad rap and for the most part > unjustified. It's exactly what it' supposed to be - it's a CLUB - and for > the most part- a Rock Club. As in people go there to Rock. They feature a wide > variety of music there but never violin concertos, boys choirs or any other > type music for which one would normally sit. This is a slight exaggeration to serve your point. I went to the 9:30 to hear Ryuichi Sakamoto. The crowd was unbelievably quiet and respectful during his largely acoustic-piano set. And there were folding chairs provided in the front-half of the usually open dance floor. So, in this case, your last sentence was totally false. ~Chaps dc-et #001 http://www.eGroups.com/group/dc-et/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 15:13:09 -0500 From: mike at duophone dot com (mike) Subject: PX I just got Projekct X (and my discipline shirt) in the mail about 30 minutes ago, and although I'm only 1/3 of the way through the disc I can tell that it will not leave my player for weeks! This is by far one the best cds I have ever purchased in my life. Every penny was worth it. If I had known how great it would be I would have glady paid even more. I urge all of you, if you haven't already, to buy this disc as soon as possible Whats the deal with PXx or PXxx? Are they going to be new PX cds or something? Are they coming out anytime soon? mike www.duophone.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 20:35:45 GMT From: adrian_sutton at talk21 dot com Subject: Bills drumming and various responses Hi, I've been sitting on the sidelines for several months and at last have decided to add my bit. Due to surgery on my wrist I have not been able to response as quickly as I hoped so some of my comments relate to digests from a couple of weeks ago, sorry. 1.On 10 Oct Jan wrote: >Now, while fondling:) the >jewel case, I noticed on the side this caucasian man with a zappa like >moustache and goatie. Could this be Favre? Can anyone recommend me works >by him? The picture is of Mike Giles and comes from a signing session, possible the release of "Epitaph". I was lucky enough to get a ticket for this event in London. I have noticed that several of the club releases have extracts of this photo on their spines. 2. Bill drumming out of time. Does it matter that much? Surely what matters is what does it sound like. If it sounds good no problem. I recently saw Bill with his Earthworks band an was struck by how fine a jazz drummer his is. I since listened to "SABB" and realised that this is a JAZZ album. In fact much of King Crimson music is Jazz. 3. Missing remixes. The recent postings have explained a question a work colleague raised he had heard a version of "Matta Kudasai" with a E-Bow break but could not find out where it was from. I guess it must be from the original CD release. Does anyone know where I could get a copy?. I like I presume many others have only the "definitive" version. Why does Fripp do this!!!! He cleaned up "Exposure" and "The League of Gentlemen" for the CD release and IMHO ruined the essence of both albums. 4. Gabriel, Fripp and Hall trilogy As I think it has been established the 3 albums were "Gabriel 2" "Exposure"(The original release) and "Sacred Songs". I had all 3 on vinyl and have replaced all with CD, although I am hanging on "Exposure" (see above). What has struck me as being strange is that Fripp choose to cover "Here comes the flood" from the first Gabriel album. "Sacred Songs" is unlike any other Hall album Adrian Sutton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:37:10 EST From: ChalkPie88 at aol dot com Subject: The new Radiohead album Hello everyone, I am curious over the "hype" that the new Radiohead "Kid A" album is creating. It seems everyone at Amazon either loves it or hates it. Sort of sounds like the same scenario with TCOL. The only reason I have interest in that band at all (although I have never heard one tune by them yet) is due to the fact that Trey Gunn said that their last album called "OK Computer" was brilliant or great or something. I was wondering if this album is worth checking out or is it just "hype" like so many other things. I would be interested in reading a review by Trey Gunn and see if this one is on par with the last one. P.S. - ProjeKct 4 just rules, I you don't have it yet, you should be locked up. Take care, Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:02:23 +0100 From: Gnad Markus Subject: KC - What kind of music? Good evening Frippies! Well I just recalled the topic of "KC to the unitiated". Ahm... what about playing that game backwards? Playing a few KC tunes to people who don't know them (without telling them who is performing!), and later on asking them what kind of music they would file them under! Markus PS New musiKc for ETers - Dominus of Steel: A Passion for Crucifixion (produced by Carlos Peron) - David Sylvian: Scent of Magnolia (New Track! Great!) - Nick Magnus: Inhaling Green (2000 album by long time Steve Hackett keyboarder) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:03:53 +0100 From: "Girard, Serge [JanBe Extern]" Subject: RE: Connections Gong-Crimson Hello Crimsoids, Markus Gnad wrote: >Yesterday I saw GONG. They rule!!!! Any connections Gong-Crimson? I also saw GONG (twice last motnh); they certainly rule !!! Connection is Bill Bruford. I don't think they ever recorded something, but maybe they did some gigs or rehearsels. I found this info in a 'family tree' of Gong a few years ago. Anyone out there who can confirm? To Markus (Disastrous Elephantosity Gravitation Centre): nice library. Greetings, Serge Girard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 15:59:04 +0100 From: "Girard, Serge [JanBe Extern]" Subject: Re: Exiles Hugh Shiebler wrote... "David Cross's version of "Exiles" Why?" Markus wrote ... the perfect answer. Bravo Markus! With RespeKct for EVERY Krim musician, Serge Girard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:20:06 CST From: "Music Street Journal Gary Hill" Subject: Bruford Disc Reviewed Just to let everyone know, Bruford's One of A King is reviewed in the newest update at Music Street Journal. The review is a "flashback" review, meaning a review of an older CD that people might have forgotten about. Music Street Journal is located at www.musicstreetjournal.com. Thanks Gary Gary Hill Music Street Journal http://www.musicstreetjournal.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 21:59:45 GMT From: "Donovan Mayne-Nicholls" Subject: Re: remix confusion In newsletter 755 Steve Sullivan suggests I am confusing the original mixes with the remixes. This is not so. I read a Fripp interview where he discussed why he'd done this and he said he had gone back to the original mixes because he wanted the albums to be like they should have been rather than how they were originally released. The fact that these remixes were in the original album doesn't make them the original mixes. The key element is that the "lost" versions both have additional layers. In the originally released MATTE, Belew's solo has been erased and replaced by Fripp's in the middle of the song, but at the beginning of the song, Fripp's intro is layered over Belew's. In Sleepless, apart from the fact that the remix is shorter, additional electronic snare is added to the entire track and the locked guitars coda has also been layered as an intro. On the chorus, the guitars have been erased and the voices are left over the rhythm section. Also, Crimson 81-84 always performed these songs live as in the definitive editions, because that's the way they rehearsed and recorded them. In the case of SLEEPLESS, the fact that it is a remix is even stated on the credits and nobody has bothered to remove it from subsequent editions even though is not applicable any longer. Just listen to the songs in the order I propose and you will see what I mean. Independently of that, I think it's a crime these versions are not available anymore. They deserve to be remastered (Warner cds had so much hiss it hurts). Fripp's solo is beautiful in its own right and once you release an album you should stick to what you did. Same thing for USA. Why not release a beautiful cardboard edition with ONLY the original program (including overdubs and edits) and save the entire concert for the collector's club freaks (no offense, I include myself there)? Incidentally, people in this newsletter always tune to peripherally related topics but are generally uninterested but the actual musical/historical differences. I find fascinating that Robert Fripp has, in some cases altered the band's hystory. There's a generation out there that doesn't they're not listening to the original album. I read at Fripp's discography that even CIRKUS on LIZARD is a remix and I have no way of proving/disproving that! Has anybody noticed GREAT DECEIVER and NIGHT WATCH both credit EXILES as Fripp, Wetton, PJ and not Cross, Fripp, PJ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 10:02:11 +0100 From: Antonio Castro Subject: John Wetton on tour Hi! John Wetton we'll be playing in Madrid next November 11. Does anyone know the line-up and setlist John is touring with? (There's not much information in his official website) Any other information from recent gigs (or a pointer) would be appreciated. Thanks! -- Antonio Castro Marti ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:51:03 -0000 From: "Joanna Sprezyna" Subject: Fripp Diary Hi there I'd like to make contact with a person who downloads Fripp's diaries. I am strongly interested in entries posted during recording of TCOL and ProjeKcts period (private e-mails please). Thanks for help. Joanna Sprezyna joasna at go2 dot pl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 07:19:14 -0800 (PST) From: Kazuhiko Saiga Subject: Ian McDonal works to all ETalkers. I bought used LP last week in Tokyo. Band is " Fireballet " LP title is " Night on bald mountain " Produced by Ian McDonald. recorded in 1975 New York, issued in 1976 in Japan. What's this ??? Ian plays sax and flute on 4 songs very good mood, especially song called "Atmospheres" is finest his work except KC and M&G. Band plays Mussorgsky's Night on bald mountain looks like a poor man's ELP. But this album is good. Somebody knows about this ? Fireballet are Jim Como, Bryan Howe, Ryche Chlanda,Frank Petto, Martyn Biglin. Kaz Saiga From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 19:47:35 -0800 From: "BTEC" Subject: Eno on Ebay The Shameless Self- promotion Dept. presents: An Ebay auction for my last Eno vinyl, a beautiful copy of "Before and after Science" including a Ltd. edition set of Four "four- colour offset" prints by the "Oblique Strategies" collaborator Peter Schmidt. Take a peek at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=488823141 Thanks Toby! Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 23:24:50 -0500 From: Tom Law Subject: Heavy Construction at concerts? Will "Heavy Construction" be available for sale at KC concerts, like, for instance, in Washington DC? What other items might be available? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 14:42:58 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: GIG REVIEW: TWO NIGHTS IN CHICAGO I attended the first and third of King Crimson's three nights in Chicago this week. Although the band members looked the same, and technically they played many of the same songs, I feel like I have seen two different bands: on Monday a band that is technically perfect, on Wednesday a band that takes risks, makes mistakes, and, unlike the Monday band, never offers a dull moment. On Monday they played the entire TCOL, Thela, Frame, and ET from DISCIPLINE, Red, and One Time, Dinosaur, and Thrak from THRAK. There was also a very short P3 set (ruined by an audience member), and Ade did 3 of a PP solo. There was also an improv. (Not in this order ... and I'm working from memory.) The band was extremly tight ... perhaps too tight. The P3 set was ruined by a drunk yelling for "Starless" during Fripp's Soundscape ... Fripp stopped playing and they moved to Trey's set piece, which was a highlight. During the improv, there was nearly a fight by Trey's side of the stage ... someone threating a woman with a cane because she had asked him to be quiet so she could hear the band. In both cases, other members of the audience shut up the drunks, who were not representative of Monday's audience, but damage was done. On Wednesday everything was different. The audience was more responsive; the band was loose and adventurous. During the improvs Robert was more aggressive, as, I thought, was Pat. One reason for the improvement may have been the mixture of the set. P3 played about a half hour into the night; on Monday all imrov oriented material was late in the set. This added more variety for performer and listener. FraKctured was the gutsy choice for the opener ... a nice challenge. Red was held until the encore, followed by Heroes. They dropped all of the Thrack material from Monday, and for the first encore did Cage and Sex, Sleep. They dropped Thela and Oyster--fewer songs more space. Maybe this had nothing to do w/ anything, but I thought it all worked alot better. As I was leaving Monday, I heard the complaints that Fripp reported in his diary: "They sucked! They can't even play their old songs!" On Wednesday: "Blew the other nights away! Best gig I've seen." Indeed, it did, and it may have been. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 23:28:53 -0600 From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" Subject: GIG REVIEW: King Crimson Live at the Modjeska I don't think this show ever really took off, to be quite honest. Sure, the sound was damn good, and the playing spot-on for the most part, but it seemed that every time the music started to attempt to take off, it seemed like something happened to knock it back down. Case 1: Improv No. 1 was great, and it seems, what I wanted out of the band. However, it was getting quiet after the intense part, and the crowd started cheering like it was over. However, on the previous songs, all the lights went out when the song was truly over (BIG HINT PEOPLE), and that never happened, apparently meaning the improv wasn't yet finished. THe band didn't think so either, and Pat and Trey gave a puzzled glance at each other. At that point the improv was aborted (I think), and they went into the next song. Case No. 2: After that, it took until "Elephant Talk" to get things really going again. Once that was over, an extended period of quiet between songs ensued, during which some moron yelled out "CAT FOOD". "Red" followed, but the damage had been done, at least from my view. Ade's voice failed him on the acoustic "Three of a Perfect Pair", the first time. He managed to get through it pretty well the second attempt, but I think that's why the show ended with another improv(?) featuring weird vocoder sounds and a beautiful solo from Trey, followed by "Oyster Soup". For what it's worth, Robert gave us a round of applause and eventually joined everyone else at the center of the stage at the end. I think the discussions in line about "If you breathe wrong they'll drop FracKtured" had some effect, because the audience actually didn't doo too badly as far as noticeable intrusions. I saw a flash of light during Ade's solo, but it didn't look like a camera flash. The guy down the row from me had a suspicious flashlight as well... perhaps he was bootlegging and that dragged the show down? Couldn't make out any clear evidence that this was the case, though. In any case, it was an OK show, and perhaps my expectations were coloring my experience. For one, I expected it to be louder than what it was from where I was sitting (2/3 from the back, by choice, because I heard things usually sound better back there). And, yes, I realize now that I did expect, to some degree, an amazing show and got possibly an average show. Even though (because?) I was a first timer, I did expect something special. The improvs were, I think, but the experience as a whole never took off. Perhaps the fault is in me, rather than the show itself. Perhaps I don't really know how to hear at all... It will be interesting to see what others think. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #757 ********************************