Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #754 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 754 Monday, 30 October 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: ELP Book and book signing GIG BIZ: Second KC DC show tickets now on sale GIG BIZ: Philly show 11/17 Kids and the Crim Earplugs Re: 80s remasters and missing remixes Questions, Suggestions, Brouhaha! Re: Nick Hornby/King Crimson in the New Yorker U.S.A. imminent release...or what? Bruford on Trio Bruford On "Trio" Santana?? Santana?? What The Fuck???? "smoke" machine fluids 9:30 dc Venues The Night Drive: ProjeKct X CD Live In Mexico Bruford's contribution to Trio TCoL... whaddaya think now? Whaddaya think - part 2 Whaddaya think - part 3 GIG REVIEW: Fillmore in SF 10/21 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:33:56 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: ELP Book and book signing The following information was sent to me and might interest ETers - Dan: --- "EMERSON, LAKE AND PALMER: THE SHOW THAT NEVER ENDS" The new book by George Forrester, Martyn Hanson and Frank Askew, "Emerson, Lake and Palmer: The Show That Never Ends" (Foreword by Chris Welch) will be published on November 25th 2000, price #12.99 UK (paperback) and #20.00 UK (hardback). US price as yet unconfirmed. This is the same day as the book launch, which will take place at HELTER SKELTER BOOKS, 4 DENMARK STREET, LONDON WC2 (off Charing Cross Road). CARL PALMER will be present! - signing books with the authors, including copies of the HARDBACK NUMBERED LIMITED EDITION. This version will contain slightly different photographs from the generally available paperback edition. Only 500 copies of this hardback version will be made, and it will only be available from the publisher, HELTER SKELTER. Your first chance of getting copies of the hardback version (and the paperback) will be on the day of the launch, and judging by the number of enquiries we anticipate a lot of people buying copies of the hardback then - so if you want one, get one early on, because they'll go quickly! Chris Welch also hopes to come along to the signing. Please contact the publisher, HELTER SKELTER BOOKS (helter at skelter dot demon dot co dot uk) to PRE-ORDER your copy (or copies! - great Christmas present!). Please tell them if you'll be coming to the launch - this will help them determine numbers. Visit http://members.theglobe.com/aluckyman/exp_fan1.html for updates. So come along to the launch of this, the first ever book about Emerson, Lake and Palmer, one of the finest bands ever that's ever walked the earth. We'll be there, we'll be there, we will be there! George Forrester, Martyn Hanson, Frank Askew. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:27:05 -0400 From: "baxlap" Subject: GIG BIZ: Second KC DC show tickets now on sale Tickets for the second King Crimson show at the 930 Club (Nov. 9, 2000) in Washington, DC are now on sale. Check www.930.com for further information. Andrew Baxley ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:40:33 EST From: GenoTT at aol dot com Subject: GIG BIZ: Philly show 11/17 I recently found myself with 3 spare tickets to the Theater of the Living Arts in Philadelphia on Friday Nov 17th. Venue is general admit. Anyone interested in buying one or more ($35 each) please email me back. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:50:45 -0500 From: "Loren W. Claypool" Subject: Kids and the Crim To Greg Amann's question about taking kids to see KC - do it! I took my 14 year old son to the show in London in July and we were both blown away. Like your son, Greg, mine is a huge Crim fan. I've taken him and his sister to alot of shows and they always behave better than most of the adults! They've seen awesome shows and it has a direct impact on their musical tastes AND it provides another opportunity for a little bonding and shared experience. We're going to the Chicago show on Halloween night! My son wouldn't miss it for anything. Loren Claypool http://www.theclaypools.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:57:24 EDT From: Signify71 at aol dot com Subject: Earplugs In response to Steve's post in #750: << I'm left with two questions about earplugs: 1) how do they change the character of the music? Do they filter high-range more than low, or anything like that? 2) if there is a change in the character of the sound after it gets through the earplugs, does King Crimson set up the equalization off the soundboard so that the music sounds right with earplugs and wrong without? Maybe I just have a tin ear and what sounds good to me is troublesome to others, but it would be nice to know that the band was encouraging us to protect our hearing. Of course turning the volume down just makes the other sounds in the room interfere more, so optimising for earplugs and loud volume would be ingenious. >> I cannot stress enough the importance of hearing protection. I lost my hearing for about three days after not bringing earplugs to a small club show about 3 years ago...believe it or not, my hearing has not been the same since. I'm not sure how they change the character of the music, but for me they seem to filter out way more high-end than low. With the plugs in now, I can still feel and hear the bottom end of things without straining through the high-end. For me, it's the high-end that blows my equilibrium and knocks me senseless, almost to the point of sickness. Strangely enough, the constant bass "thumping" of subwoofers in cars and trucks causes extreme muscle tension in my body, but not my hearing... I would assume that the front-of-house soundperson would recognize the need to eq everything a bit, given the temperature of the room, crowd size, natural (or unnatural) acoustics, etc. Most musicians I've seen playing in small quarters have reverted to either in-ear monitors or hearing protection (thereby relying on the monitor wedges); either way, it's a relatively inexpensive way to insure yourself against lifelong hearing damage and the possibility of not being able to listen to your favorite music, let alone hold a simple conversation with a friend or loved one. For the record, I don't work for Beltone or anything, just trying to push an issue which doesn't seem to get much attention. It still baffles me to this day to hear condescending remarks concerning this at shows (the old "if it's too loud you're too old" saying, like it's cool to suffer from tinnitus or partial hearing loss). I simply cannot understand why some folks don't take steps to insure their hearing. You won't lose anything, not much anyway, unless you're a purist and need to hear things at top volume all the time. Nothing wrong with that. In some cases, the sound does come across as a bit muddled, but that may have something to do with the band's live mix or where a person might be standing in the room. I have had to move around at shows before to get a better overall sound; if anyone's ever been stuck in front of one cabinet for two hours, and all you hear is the guy's bass, you'll know what I'm talking about (not a swipe at bassists, btw!). Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:10:21 GMT From: "Donovan Mayne-Nicholls" Subject: Re: 80s remasters and missing remixes Every now and then the question pops up about the original mixes on Discipline and Three of a perfect pair. Most people are aware of Matte Kudasai, but not Sleepless. My father has the original Warner reissue on Cd (I dunno whether Polygram released or not a CD version of these albums). The bottom line seems to be that Robert Fripp doesn't like these remixes, that's why he replaced them by the original mixes. I dunno when were the original mixes released. They're already on THE COMPACT KING CRIMSON, which is three years prior to the definitive editions. It'd be perfect if Fipp would release the 24 bit master edition respecting the original contents but I don't see it coming (He made no effort to restore Bill Bruford's final words at the end of LARKS, but we might force him to treat us to an EP of alternate mixes, namely: MATTE KUDASAI remix ELEPHANT TALK dance mix HEARTBEAT mono mix SLEEPLESS remix by Bob Clearmountain SLEEPLESS dance mix SLEEPLESS instrumental mix There's also a mono mix of THE NIGHT WATCH, so start making waves. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:23:39 +0200 From: "Markus Gnad" Subject: Questions, Suggestions, Brouhaha! ELE-FAN-Z!!! Hi all! I get my inspiration for disastrous posts by car driving (well, y'know... new cd arrives via mail... quit working... get into the car... with a pack of Winston and two Red Bulls... and off to LISTENING...) So, anyway, here is what hit me yesterday: (and a few things came today, too) 1) I have a few suggestions for Elephant Talk web, may I? a) Can someone put on his scanner and scan some Crimson Covers and ...Toby... wouldn't that be a good idea? A link on ET web for Crim Cover Wallpapers? - The Larks' stuff is great but I have already had them all! b) And: For improvisation on the Timeline - can somebody create a picture which shows all Crim members past & present, at CURRENT TIME (Sinfield with grey hair etc...), all mixed up as ONE GROUP? Note: If I HAD a scanner, I would do that. But I have none. 2) Thanks for the replies to my Conny Plank question. BUT: I have now TWO OPTIONS. (LOL) a) Conny Plank is the wife of a member of Can b) Conny Plank is a producer mastermind from Germany, note: a male producer What to do about this, then? 3) Yesterday I saw GONG. They rule!!!! Any connections Gong-Crimson? 4) Not that Crim relaYERted but still: I'd like to know the official homepages of the following GREAT ARTISTS: a) Steve Jansen b) Richard Barbieri c) Mick Karn Now, a little bit more complicated: d) Jansen / Barbieri e) Jansen / Barbieri / Karn (pri-vat-e email please) 5) Who of Austria and of Germany or nearby will go to GC Level One in Rome next January? (also pri-vat-e email please) And now, after all these "?"'s, a thing or two that end with a "." or a "!". 1) Well, it seems, the idea of "members only CDs" spreads the net. A week ago I got my copy of Liveandwell.com, the "Earthling Live" CD from Bowienet - for members only! And as it seems, Elton John also offers this option for becoming a member of his site. 2) New MuSICK for ETers: a) Jansen/Barbieri/Karn and stuff - THEY RULE!!! b) Cipher - No ordinary man. Album from GONG saxophonist Theo Travis, featuring Dave Sturt, Richard Barbieri (!!!!!), Steven Wilson and Rabbi Gaddy Zerbib. c) The music of ET-Man Marcus Enochsson!!!!!!! He's starting his fire now, I think so we should all wish him best luKc! d) hm... and still... the unique Carlos Peron Yeahyeah, that's a lot of things to talk and think about. Now going to drive awhile listening to ProjeKct X (it arrived today!). Markus Disastrous Elephantosity Gravitation Centre, Linz, Austria ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:24:17 -0400 From: "Frank J. Oteri" Subject: Re: Nick Hornby/King Crimson in the New Yorker Carlos Schroder wrote: "in the current issue of the new yorker...critic nick hornby reviews radiohead latest opus. in his review he mentions king crimson... "older listeners may have...been uncomfortably reminded of experiences they would rather forget--such as sitting in a field somewhere and nodding appreciatively to the sounds of king crimson or emerson, lake & palmer, best-forgotten seventies bands..." Ironically, the movie-version of Hornby's novel has some great KC signage with a copy of Discipline prominently displayed in the protagonist's record shop. So, as cosmic justice would have it, Hornby is actually helping to keep memories alive that he thinks we should forget! Bravo to the folks on the set who snuck in the KC. Radiohead's Kid A is great BTW, as is The ConstruKction of Light as far as I'm concerned. My two cents... FJO Frank J. Oteri Editor and Publisher NewMusicBox http://www.newmusicbox.org Have you seen NewMusicBox, the ASCAP/Deems Taylor Award-winning monthly Web magazine from the American Music Center? This month's issue is devoted to music and the American presidency. Find out what Nixon, Truman, Jefferson, Roosevelt and the others had to say about music, plus see if you can guess the musical opinions of this year's presidential candidates. Coming in November, NewMusicBox talks to sample-master Carl Stone about the complex relationship between artistic licence, fair use, downloadable music and intellectual property. Log on today at http://www.newmusicbox.org... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:55:37 +0100 From: "Pete Clark" Subject: U.S.A. imminent release...or what? Dear Elephant Talk, I was sure, as I cruised ever-more impressed through the King Crimson website on my first go on the net, that I'd seen mention of a forthcoming release of USA, the KC live album of '75. Was I imagining it? There seems plenty of information about Collectors' Club offerings of various gigs from the past, but none, as far as I can tell, of this. The only reason I was interested is that 'Asbury Park', the gig location and my favourite improvised piece of that line-up was included on the original, and I kind of expected re-mastered, digitally-enhanced, etc. versions of all the original tracks, plus the rest of the concert. Can you give me any information? I would be much obliged. And can I take this opportunity to congratulate you on an excellent site... Cheers, Pete Clark. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:01:47 EDT From: AndyAcunzo at aol dot com Subject: Bruford on Trio I've read that Bill Bruford was credited with "admirable restraint" on Trio from SaBB. Is this true? If so, where was this credit? It's a funny story, but I'm wondering if it's true. I ask because I've seen the new 24 bit remaster, the "definitive edition" remaster, and a vinyl version of SaBB and none of them had this credit. Was it just a comment by RF in an interview somewhere? Thanks, Andy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 06:24:30 -0700 From: Curtis Martens Subject: Bruford On "Trio" On "Young Person's Guide To King Crimson" the personnel listing for "Trio" credits Bill Bruford for "admirable restraint." Considering the delicate nature of the improv, I think a co-composer's credit is appropriate. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:17:40 EDT From: ChalkPie88 at aol dot com Subject: Santana?? Santana?? What The Fuck???? Hello Guys and Gals, I'm sorry, but Spearman's comments in issue #750 about the Crimson gig slightly pissed me off: "I was really glad that the Santana show on Saturday was so good--so I don't need to dwell on how miserable that Friday KC show was." What the fuck is that statement?? That is a pretty bold and ignorant statement to make on a KING CRIMSON website. I have not yet seen the show (going to see it twice in NYC), but something tells me it's not nearly as bad as Mr. Spearman claims. But this I know is true - I have seen Santana live, and I know this current Crimson gig is going to blow it away on every account. I'd like to see Mr. Carlos pull off "FraKctured" live. AIN'T gonna Happen. Sorry, but I had to vent. I feel better now:) Frank ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:39:40 -0400 From: Karl Wasmuth Subject: "smoke" machine fluids Vincent Beaney (and other interested parties): Theatrical smoke machines don't really make smoke (in the "let's burn something" sense). These work by a process somewhat similar to a garden sprayer -- a fluid is rapidly and finely sprayed as a mist into the air. While some venues/tours still use foggers that work with mineral oil, many houses have shifted over to water-based hazers. (Looking at the bottle on my desk...hmm... no content list, but no handling warnings either. We use LeMaitre Water Base Haze fluid in their H175s and H300's -- you could go to their website www.lemaitrefx.com and check out the MSDS (federal material standard warnings). Actors' Equity and the American Federation of Musicians have been very actively involved in testing to ensure that "smoke" / fog / haze is safe for their members (and, by extension, the audience). Problems with these fluids tend to be primarily psychological; I read in Theatre Crafts mag about a performer who had an asthmatic reaction the first time they used a new fogger - they tried again with the performer blindfolded and said performer didn't notice the difference between a clear stage and opaque fog. We've had similar things happen in our performance spaces -- people see the fog come on, start to cough, then get distracted and are fine thereafter. I wouldn't drink the stuff, but I'm not in a rush to wash it off if it spills on me either. Actually, if forced at gunpoint to choose between drinking a glass or sitting next to a heavy smoker for a few hours -- "Can I have some ice?" Hope this helps; more iff desired, -- Karl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:00:06 -0400 From: "T.J. Mathews" Subject: 9:30 dc John Sowerby wrote: >>NYC isn't the only place. The Washington, D.C. venue for Crimson, the >>9:30 Club, is another standing-only venue. P2 played there and it apparently >>made a good impression on Fripp, Belew and Gunn.>> >It's a nice club, with pretty good sound, and no problems with sightlines or >anything like that. It is however, in a not particularly nice area of DC. They do >have a guarded parking lot, but you cannot get your car out until the end of the >show. Amongst the dc-etRs the 9:30 gets a fairly bad rap. Many people I know say they have big problems with the sight lines. Their recent 5 week delay on ticket sales for the second show was true drip torture. I think the place is ok. But I've grown tired of this "bad part of town" jive. I metro'd down there just yesterday to as to avoid Ticketmaster getting several dollars and what is it? It's a black part of town. One guy asked me for change but that happens everywhere in town and all over the suburbs. In fact crime, if that's what is so bad, is way down in DC. Do run down buildings make for evil? I was looking for another nearby store and was able to ask many friendly people for advice of where to go. I also spotted a very new and ritzy furniture store so just watch out you soon won't be able to afford that "not particularly nice area of DC". ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:06:30 -0400 From: "T.J. Mathews" Subject: Venues I'm glad to hear the talk about venue's in Detroit. I brought up this topic for all of our various cities many moons ago in hope that WE might be able to help the Crim make the kind of venue choices that we prefer. The response to this idea was low. At this point in 2000 it's just too late. One idea though - The experience that the band members have does influence the venue decision and we just get bits of those feelings. Trey once mentioned thinking that the Atlanta 95 venue (Fox?) was a real dump but that the shows were killer. So a "bad" place can make for something else. tj, dc-et2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 00:00:57 +0200 From: "Markus Gnad" Subject: The Night Drive: ProjeKct X CD Hello Ele-Fans! (ELO-Fans???) Nearly six months after the arrival of The ConstruKction Of Light the album Heaven And Earth popped into my mailbox (out of several reasons). Today's Nightdrive with my car included a full virginal listen to this baby, from the beginning to the end, with no pause, at brutal volume. Random thoughts on this: 1) I know by now: These four guys are so fucking crazy that they would be better off seeking help from a doctor. Now I really know what breads behind the eyes of "IAMJOHNLENNON"-Adrian, "IAMACTUALLYATECHNODJ"- Pat, "IAMTHEBESTGUITARCRAFTSTUDENT"-Trey and "IAMTHEBESTGUITARIST INTHEWORLDBUTINEVERSAYITIWANTTOHEARITFROMYOU"-Robert (ahm... joking, in case you didn't know). 2) I have heard loads of music in my life, and loads of music which isn't very normal - Zappa, Bowie, MIles Davis, Klaus Schulze, PERON (I won't give it up!!!) - but really: This CD is the most craziest weird SICK album I have ever heard. 3) There were seconds while listening where I couldn't keep my hands on the wheel, I had to press one hand against my mouth because I couldn't believe what I heard, all these abnormal noises, those GUITARS, this schizoid drumming, this bass that comes and hits your stomach until it hurts, all these little goodies that are spread throughout the record.... 4) There were also seconds where I recalled other things this baby reminded me of: Leave away the guitars and you'll get a sense of what Carlos Peron's soundtracks for the Ady Henry Kiss novels are like; pictures of HR Giger; the moment where David Bowie shouts "SHUT UP" on It's No Game to Fripp occured when somewhere Fripps words are cut and confused by this crazy guy who mixed the album; and - HA! LOL! - the riff around 2:00 of Heaven And Earth the track slightly reminds me of Owner Of A Lonely Heart! 5) When TCOL came out, I loved it from the start. And I have listened to it a 1000 times, really. Yet the album feels so... incomplete... as if the musicians still were searching and... NOT YET satisfied with themselves... and the music they put out. On PX I feel Completeness, Wholeness, this bunch of tracks fits so dramatically together and stands as a Whole. As a whole chapter, a definite chapter... and this leads me to... 7) ...Yes. There we have it. The definite statement of our beloved KContratemporary rock band. And not only has King Crimson as ProjeKct X put out THE BEST ROCK ALBUM EVER MADE, they also produced THE BEST AND MOST BEAUTIFUL SONG OF ALL TIMES - Heaven & Earth. (Indeed, during all my listens to TCOL I NEVER listened to that bonus track, except for the first time! I wanted to wait for the whole thing!) Wowowowowow... and wanna know what I listened to for "coming down again"? A mix CD of Steve Hackett "Everyday" and "Spectral Mornings" followed by Mike Oldfield "Pictures In The Dark". Have a nice evening/night/morning/day Markus Yes, really, these four guys are so ABSOLUTELY CRAZY SICK AND COOL! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:17:04 +0000 From: Ed Spencer Subject: Live In Mexico How do I get a serial number for Live In Mexico .WMA? Thanks, Ed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:31:33 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Bruford's contribution to Trio In ET 752 the question was asked why is Bruford credited on "Trio"? On some listings he is credited with "admirable restraint". Trio was a live improv and it could not have existed in it's present form if Bill had chosen to play. It is a perfect peaceful moment as is. Had Bill chosen to play it would have been nearly impossible not to fuKC it up. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:24:59 -0500 From: bmoore29 at csc dot com Subject: TCoL... whaddaya think now? Hey all! I'm feeling a little saucy on this fine Sunday evening, and with a couple of inebriating beverages already in the can and TCoL spinning wildly on the stereo, I thought I'd stir up some trouble in ET. :-) That being said, this long-time lurker, first-time poster would like to pose the following question: Now that TCoL has been out for many months and we've all had the opportunity to listen dozens, nay, hundreds of times (not to mention those lucky Crimheads who've seen them perform live and lived to complain about it), what do all of the original quick-to-the-draw nay-sayers think now? It has certainly found it's way onto MY desert island Top Ten. Unfortunately missing the 11/9 show at the 9:30 Club due to prior obligations, sign me... Bairman ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:27:15 -0500 From: bmoore29 at csc dot com Subject: Whaddaya think - part 2 Make that the 11/8 show at the 9:30 Club. I can only HOPE for an 11/9 show... Bairman ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:07:17 -0500 From: bmoore29 at csc dot com Subject: Whaddaya think - part 3 Ask and ye shall receive! The second show at the 9:30 Club is on! DC-ETers unite! Bairman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:17:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Zeien Subject: GIG REVIEW: Fillmore in SF 10/21 "The Fillmore Saturday was sublime Crimson, I think our best show yet." The above quote from Pat's diary tells the story. There's something about that old hall that brings out the best in performers. Of course, things can always go wrong, and they did the previous night, but the beauty of a multi-night run of shows is that there's more opportunity for everything to come together. I've seen a lot of Crimso shows over the years, but the Fillmore gigs were my first in a venue without seating, and I have to say that it greatly improves the amount of energy redirected from the audience back to the band. It allows a lot more people to be close to the stage, and it's great to be able to dance (yes, even badly in 7/8) and move to the grooves. It's clear that the band enjoys this feedback (except, of course, for the clowns yelling for "Schizoid" who will be there anyway). I won't go into a detailed review of the songs, except to note how amazing it is to watch them tackle FraKctured and Larks IV on stage and absolutely *nail* them. The improvs were what made the Saturday Fillmore show really come alive, though. When those pieces develop and take flight, Crimso transcends the limits of traditional musical performance. On this night the audience was willing to go right along with them. I also have to mention Ade's dramatic solo rendition of "I Left My Heart In San Francisco" which opened the encore portion of the show. I've always thought of Ade as a good singer, but now I know that should he decide to move on from Crimso he could have a great career as a crooner... ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #754 ********************************