Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #75 Discipline, Number 75 Sunday, 17 January 1993 Today's Topics: Fripp In a Box TAB: "Frame by Frame" Lake Interview Freak Out Discipline #74 Fripp and dance music, & synthesizers? Boxed Fripp careful with those transcriptions Re: Fripp String Quintet Re: Fripp's tone on "Trio" Re: Outrageous new directions for Fripp Fripp new recording [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 09:21:38 -0500 From: kuznick at meglos dot mdcorp dot ksc dot nasa dot gov (david kuznick) Subject: Fripp In a Box In the 70's-80's there was an effect manufacturer called Electro-Harmonix. They had a demo store in Manhattan where they had an in-store band to demo their products. One of the last things they produced before going out of business was the Electro Harmonix 16 second Digital Delay marketed as a Fripp in a Box and endorsed by Bobby himself. Roger Miller of Birdsongs of the Mesazoic(sp?) fame used one on his solo tours for some really wacked out effects; the Fripp of the electric piano! Don;t know whether someone picked up the license or whether this new Fripp in a Box is something else entirely. ** David Kuznick kuznick at meglos dot mdcorp dot ksc dot nasa dot gov MUTLEY! Do something! - D.D. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 11:00:48 MST From: pmartz at dsd dot es dot com (Paul Martz) Subject: TAB: "Frame by Frame" I finally had a chance to go over Sven's tab for "Frame by Frame". Can't remember whether I got it off this mailing list or the guitar tab group, it is dated April 4, 1992. Anyhow he loft some holes that I'll try to fill in. He refers to a "wacked out Fripp part" which is what Fripp plays over the intro, and for that I've deciphered the following: --------------|-------------| ----- 7 9 7 --|---- 7 9 7 --| - 6 9 ----- 9 | 6 9 ----- 9 | --------------|-------------| .... --------------|-------------| --------------|-------------| ... over and over, played very very fast. Faster than I can play. (Of course I'm "just a drummer" :-) Then I set to work on the bass part, which Sven had left out. I don't have access to a stick, so I've transcribed for bass. This has resulted in alot of stuff up an octave higher than it needs to be. I've done the best I could. Here goes. Over the intro it sounds like: -------------------------------------------| ---------------------|---------------------| --------- 9 4 -------|--------- 9 4 -------| - 0 -------------- 6 |- 0 -------------- 6 | Corresponding to what Fripp plays, ten "measures" of the Fripp stuff fits into one of the measures I've just drawn for the bass. The above bass part leads into the following (again remember I'm transcribing for bass): --- 6 ---- 6 9 ---- 6 ---- 6 --| - 6 ---- 6 ------ 6 ---- 6 ----| ---------------------------- 4 | .... -------------------------------| This moves up a third, allowing it to be transcribed down an octave, which I've done: -------------------------------| -------------------------------| --- 9 ---- 9 12 --- 9 ---- 9 --| .... - 9 ---- 9 ------ 9 ---- 9 - 0 | -----------------------------------|-----| -----------------------------------|-----| ---- 12 --- 12 ------- 13 --- 13 --|-----| - 12 ---- 12 - 3 -- 13 --- 13 -- 4 |- 2 -| At this point we're at the lead in for the verse. The stick is silent for a few phrases, then comes in with the vocals: --------------------|-------------------|-------------------|-------------------| - 4 ----- 4 --- 4 2 | 0 ----- 0 --- 0 --|-------------------|-------------------| --------------------|---------------- 4 | 2 ----- 2 --- 2 0 |-------------------| --------------------|-------------------|-------------------| 3 ----- 4 --------| --------------------|-------------------|-------------------|-------------------| - 7 ----- 7 --- 7 5 | 3 ----- 3 --- 3 2 | 0 ----- 0 --- 0 --|-------------------| --------------------|-------------------|---------------- 3 | 1 ----- 2 --------| --------------------|-------------------|-------------------|-------------------| [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 14 Jan 1993 14:13:35 -0500 From: MOONLIT KNIGHT Subject: Lake Interview Freak Out As a holder of a prime ticket for the ELP show at Springfield on 2/1, I was interested when the local paper had an article about them. No offense to small town papers like here in the Pioneer Valley, but they usually don't have much revelation to offer. After introducing Lake's phone interview by describing him as a member of "the fabled King Crimson before ELP formed", it goes on to talk about the fans as 70-80% old and 20-30% young. He also says that the advantage of a trio is the distinctness of each player, the disadvantage that when someone screws up it's pretty obvious. He says there is a little room for improvisation in the show but not much since the crowd wants to hear prepared music. He also expresses disappointment in modern music (yawn). "Lake said the present tour schedule will feature a show that is different from the one performed last year. The concerts will again be a mix of new and old ELP material, but the song list will not be the same." It says he will move to Los Angeles during '93 and that a new studio album is planned and that Lake plans on doing a solo album this year. Now here's the kicker, hold on to your hats... "And he did not rule out a reunion of King Crimson. 'It would be nice to make an album and play live,' he said of King Crimson. 'I've been talking to Robert [Crimson's ex-guitarist/leader Robert Fripp]. We may well end up doing something in the future. Right now, we're both busy. We're all still very friendly. There are no personal problems.'" (all excerpts unoffically but appreciatively regurgitated from Chris Hamel's article in the Hampshire Union-News 1/14/93) Well I don't suppose that this is as shocking as it seems. Fripp has said that all those "acquainted with the tradition" are potential future Crimson members, and that "all have expressed desire to work together in the future". Lake seems the most unlikely candidate, though. I mean, this article acts like Crimson never existed after 1969, which, according the Essential scrapbook, is Lake's opinion of the situation. I hope to be able to ask him about these things after the show. Speaking of Crimson bassists, I am not surprised that the reactivation is on hold until Levin is done touring with Gabriel. The tour is going to be very extensive and will almost certainly not be done by the summer. But everyone takes a break now and again and Tony has been known to shuffle between those gigs rather adroitlly. The tours for Beat and Security were pretty touch-and-go. So perhaps he will have time to tour and record briefly during a break in the PG tour. Time will tell. Anyway, some of this is more relevant to one newsletter or the other, but I'm sure the info is useful all around. Jeff [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 12:53:16 -0800 From: rpeck at pure dot com (Ray Peck) Subject: Discipline #74 toby at computer-science dot manchester dot ac dot uk writes: >From: cs163wel at sdcc8 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) >Subject: Robert Fripp and His String Quintet >Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 8:57:50 PST > >According to the San Diego Union-Tribune Concert feature, the "ex-leader of >King Crimson will make his San Diego debut at the Belly Up Tavern in Solana >Beach, CA on May 27". Anyone from the Bay Area want to carpool down there for the show? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 14:02:27 -0800 From: Malcolm Humes Subject: Fripp and dance music, & synthesizers? Anil comments: >Bob The Fripper plays on the debut album by The Grid ... >BTW, anyone see some dangerous trends happening here? The Orb working with >Mike Oldfield, 808 State hanging around with Yes, Opus III bobbing about >with the Crimheads and Jon Anderson doing a rap version of "Close To The >Edge" ("Close 2 The Hype")? Actually Fripp has a history of interest in dance oriented music - look at his early work with the League of Gentlemen, Blondie, The Talking Heads and his discotronics work with David Byrne's vocalism's on Under Heavy Manners. And I actually bought the latest Orb, UFOrb, after hearing numerous netters rave about it and because Steve Hillage is on some of it. I like it! A lot of the stuff is really ambient and has no pulsing drum beat and some of the synth sequencing is a bit reminiscent of Hillage or Tim Blake - it's pretty well crafted and the US cd has a bonus disc making it a bargain for over two hours of music for $13 or so. >Of course, all of this is in IMHO, so relax if you actually buy this crap. Oh, Ok. :^) Just thought I'd mention that it's not really a new direction for Bob and that I find some of this stuff remarkably accessible despite my general dislike of incessantly throbbing beats. I see it as a fusion of a lot of dub reggae mixing techniques with ambient drones and washes and a touch of 70's synth sequencing with the beat as the thread that ties it all together - today's midi drum programming means that a lot of times the pulsing beat is triggering samples and synths instead of the traditional drum machine sounds that make some people cringe. By the way, does anyone have any comments on Fripp's apparent dislike of synthesizers? Seems to me he rarely, if ever, works with them - at least on his own music, at least when it comes to keyboard driven synths. Can anyone imagine a keyboard player being part of the 90's Crimson? - Malcolm [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 09:20:55 EST From: davidh at kau1 dot kodak dot com (David Hodson) Subject: Boxed Fripp "Fripp in a Box" was, I believe, the advertising slogan used (without the permission of RF) by Korg(? I think) for an early digital delay unit which emphasised length at the expense of sound quality, allowing Fripp & Eno tape loop effects. This was a long time ago (especially for you youngsters), when digital audio gear was new and memory was expensive, so a delay of many seconds (between 10 and 20, I think) was a big deal. It doesn't sound like you're talking about the same thing though. Also - I'm sure a friend was telling me about the Orb working with Fripp. Haven't heard the results, though. -- davidh at kodak dot com <> <> [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 09:17:31 CST From: david at gca-prism dot com (David Oskardmay) Subject: careful with those transcriptions Keep in mind that for some of the 80's KC stuff, Fripp may or may not have been playing in the new tuning (CGDAEG), so that when you transcribe things into EADGBE tuning it may be more difficult, impossible, or perhaps much easier to play :-). Your mileage may vary. Happy Frippin' david P.S. Toby and Ken: My Email address will be changing soon, so stay tuned... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 22:27:42 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Patrick Arnold Subject: Re: Fripp String Quintet Alas, this is the Robert Fripp, Trey Gunn and California Guitar Trio (three more Crafty Guitarists who live around Los Angeles) combined under one name. Remember, they played together in DC and New York earlier last year? THey played under the name Fripp String Quintet in Japan late last year. A friend of mine saw them and thought it was awesome. Fripp and Gunn tend to play duets and the California Guitar Trio tend to play their own stuff, Bach and the like with some Craft Guitarist music thrown in for good measure. - Brian [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: cs163wel at sdcc8 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Re: Fripp's tone on "Trio" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 10:03:27 PST On the _Starless and Bible Black_ track "Trio", I heard a flute improvising along with the violin. I listened closer and it was not a flute but Fripp's guitar! Does anyone know how he got that sound? -- Paolo Valladolid pvallado at sdcc13 dot ucsd dot edu Broken hearts are for a**holes -Frank Zappa [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: cs163wel at sdcc8 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Re: Outrageous new directions for Fripp Date: Sat, 16 Jan 93 15:19:28 PST > Bob The Fripper plays on the debut album by The Grid (those of you buying > the new Eno CD5s know their work). He's the featured guitarist on three > tracks. > > The Grid are a British techno/remix/industrial type band. I prefer to lump > them under the "shitbox" category, however, your perceptions may be > different. > > Apparently The Grid and The Fripp got along so well that they're planning > on doing an entire (yecch) album together. Interestingly enough, The Fripp > wants to do more upbeat dancey stuff while The Grid want to do more ambient > stuff. Apparently, Griddles and Fripps see some mutual cross-pollination > potential here. > > BTW, I think The Grid's album is titled "Electric Head" on Virgin Records > UK. > > BTW, anyone see some dangerous trends happening here? The Orb working with > Mike Oldfield, 808 State hanging around with Yes, Opus III bobbing about > with the Crimheads and Jon Anderson doing a rap version of "Close To The > Edge" ("Close 2 The Hype")? What did Fripp do before he reformed King Crimson in 1981? He was playing in the League of Gentlemen. This was a *dance* band. What is he doing now? Playing in a *dance* band. Folks, our man is following the same pattern he followed before; studio work with other artists and stints with a dance band, gearing up for the next incarnation of King Crimson...As I mentioned a while back, Bobby is doing what I thought he would do; basically confound everyone's expectations of a "progressive musician" by keeping up with the latest trends. Then, it was disco, punk, and new wave. Now, it's techno and hip hop. Fear not, Crimson fans, it's not likely he'll join The Grid and insist on changing the band's name to King Crimson, rather, it'll be just like the League of Gentlemen. This all brings to mind the outrage some of the more conservative fans must have felt in 1981 when the "new" King Crimson presented them with an outrageous new sound borrowing heavily from the energy of punk and exotic ethnic rhythms when they probably expected more of the "old" Crimson. > > Clearly the progressive door is ajar here... someone slam it shut before > these technogeeks really get through and infiltrate this hallowed ground... > wow, that was a profound thought... :-) > > Of course, all of this is in IMHO, so relax if you actually buy this crap. Heck, I expect Fripp to play on someone's rap record in the near future, which I'm sure would confuse a lot of people ;-), unless someone has sampled him already ;-) ;-). > > In other news, The Fripp has worked with an as yet-unknown music equipment > manufacturer to create the.. erm.. "Fripp In A Box". Yes, no kidding, > that's what it's called. Basically, every Frippian effect you've ever > wanted. Apparently this is >from a UK manufacturer. > > If you have any details about "Fripp In A Box" (puns that bad should be > punishable by death through extremely cruel and unusual punishment IMHO), > please post info! In the _Electronic Musician_ interview of 1987, when Fripp found out that Electro-Harmonix was using his name to advertise their "Fripp In a Box" (the legendary 16-Second Delay), he called them and said if they were using Fripp's name, Fripp would like to have their Box for free. When they refused to give him one for nothing, he surprisingly did not sue them and simply went and bought one (maybe he got a good discount). -- Paolo Valladolid pvallado at sdcc13 dot ucsd dot edu Broken hearts are for a**holes -Frank Zappa [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 17-JAN-1993 09:49:48.32 From: ommadawn Subject: fripp new recording According to an interview in the Japanese magazine Rockin' On, Robert Fripp started recording an album with David Sylvian, T. Gunn, and an unidentified drummer that supposedly lives in the Woodstock area sometime in November. Fripp, Sylvian, and Gunn performed live in Japan last March, and supposedly about half the pieces were new compositions. As for the new Crimson lineup, Fripp said something to the effect of, "the new Crimson would be a quintet; four have experienced past King Crimson, and one hasn't." He didn't mention exactly what the lineup was going to be like, though. I also found a full band transcription of Discipline (the tune, not the whole album) in a magazine called Marquee. I may post it if I find the time. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - o/ <| ** support National Halt Day December 22, 1992 ** / > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Yoshi matsumoto ymatsumoto at eagle dot wesleyan dot edu - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.