Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #745 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 745 Tuesday, 17 October 2000 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: Desperately Looking for Park West ticket(s) Robert Fripp's guitar strings If I may be so bold... Re: bowie eno fripp belew KingCrimsonTV Out of Date Subject: FraKctured Fairy Tale Re : The 'Trilogy' Ex-squeeze me for askink Giles & Eno The Resale of CDs Re: Bill Bruford's Drumming Fripp vs. flash photographers vs. Henley Information on Pierre Favre/Prism Chicks Re: abortion & napalm? Sacred Songs/Trilogy Bowie/Eno Trilogy Sacred Song bonis tracks Re: Bill Bruford's Drumming Mike McLaughlin's Bruford Observations.... Re: Abortion & Napalm Remixes ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:22:15 -0500 From: "Kevin Simonson" Subject: GIG BIZ: Desperately Looking for Park West ticket(s) 10/30, 10/31, 11/1 Any! Anybody? Please? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:05:03 +0200 From: Alvaro Calzas Subject: Robert Fripp's guitar strings Hello Everyone, I have only a question so I'll be very brief: - Does anybody know what kind of strings (brand, gauge, wound...) used RF in his electric guitar (and acoustic too, if you know) during the early King Crimson recordings? And, in the same way, what about the pick? If anyone knows it, please answer. Thanks a lot, Alvaro Calzas brainiak at arrakis dot es ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:46:22 GMT From: "Dan Ceo" Subject: If I may be so bold... I've been listening to Crim and Hendrix, back-to-back. I'd like to be the Devil's advocate and, for the sake of argument, say, sure KC was one of the first proponents of prog rock, as well as Pink Floyd. But, I also think that Jimi Hendrix was also one of the great pioneers of progressive music. I mean, just listen to "Electric Ladyland" if you ahve any doubts. Of course, I'm not meaning to take anything away from Fripp's contributions, either; I just wanted to point out an increasingly overlooked fact. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:49:01 -0400 From: John W Ott Subject: Re: bowie eno fripp belew Elephant Talk wrote: > Date: 10 Oct 00 17:52:46 EDT > From: James Dusewicz > Subject: The 'Trilogy' > > The Bowie/Eno/Fripp 'trilogy' is: > > Low(1977) > Heroes(1977) > Lodger(1979) > > Fripp also appears on Scary Monsters(1980). > > jim > > crazyhjhd at yahoo dot com > > James Dusewic I would like to point out there is no bowie/eno/fripp trilogy. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:34:03 -0700 From: Adrian Cockcroft Subject: KingCrimsonTV Out of Date I was very impressed by the content at www.kingcrimsontv.com which covers the Nashville warm-up gigs and the European Tour. However it seems to have become a "cobweb" and is frozen in time. It does not list the current tour dates and the diaries are very out of date now. Does anyone know if there are plans to update it for the current tour? I'll be a respectful audient at the Filmore Fri Oct 20th, I joined elephant-talk a few years ago after missing KC gigs just because I didn't know where/when they were playing, so this is much anticipated - many thanks Toby/ET! Adrian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:03:52 -0500 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Subject: FraKctured Fairy Tale >From: "Josh Chasin" >I for one simply cannot abide the song FraKctured, and am thrilled that as a >lone audient I have the power to keep it out of the set list at all three NY >shows. Excellent!! Anyone know what the second song is on the list of >material I have been empowered to keep the band from playing? Jeeez dude. I hope you're kidding. That entire concept and idea is way too evil even to be putting in the thoughts of other's heads let alone your own. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:15:17 +0100 From: Gerard dot Coughlan at irishlife dot ie Subject: Re : The 'Trilogy' James Dusewicz wrote in ET #743 >>"The Bowie/Eno/Fripp 'trilogy' is: >> >>Low(1977) >>Heroes(1977) >>Lodger(1979) >> >>Fripp also appears on Scary Monsters(1980)." Fripp appears only on Heroes and Scary Monsters. His playing is excellent on both albums but it's possibly mixed too low on Heroes. Adrian Belew features prominantly on Lodger. Neither Fripp nor Belew appear on Low. Regards Ger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:05:05 EDT From: JAustin777 at aol dot com Subject: Ex-squeeze me for askink To no one in particular and many in general: How is it that commentators mention so infrequently the less common and most stimulating works related to Fripp's adventures such as David Sylvian & Robert Fripp The First Day. Trilogies and Soundscapes are wonderful. Did we just discover Eno and Cluster? What of Rodelius? Perhaps I don't understand the learning curve. I lately discovered Elephant Talk. I collect it on my E-Mail. I read it when time permits something other than work. I love KC!!!!! Do I simply take for granted waiting for the release of "Another Green World" and "Before And After Science" outside the record store? Taken courses from one who was gassed on UT Austin West Campus with the "new" ITCOTCK album in his hands. Where will fortune find those Crimsoids like us? Alone, I gather. Peace ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:18:02 EDT From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: Giles & Eno jan geerts writes: >And lastly, my questions : I recently received KCCC5-6, which I enjoy very >much. There's a piece by Favre on it, 'Prism', a drummers' piece, and >particulary Bill is just scary on this one. Now, while fondling:) the >jewel case, I noticed on the side this caucasian man with a zappa like >moustache and goatie. Could this be Favre? No, but it is a drummer--it's Michael Giles. The spines of the club CDs fit together to form an image from the _Epitaph_ playback. James Dusewicz wrote: >Yes! The three Eno/Cluster? albums are out on CD. Several people have referred to either _Old Land_ or _Begegnungen_ as a third Eno/Cluster collaboration. In fact these are both compilations, including tracks from _Cluster & Eno_ and _After The Heat_ (plus, in the case of _Begegnungen_, other Cluster-related material without Eno). Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:38:18 -0400 From: Dan Cooper Subject: The Resale of CDs In ET #744, GenoTT at aol dot com said: "I managed to persuade some uninitiated (and unsuspecting) friends to buy my previous CD copies of Larks' Tongues and Red for $10 each" Not to stir up a whole new can of worms or anything, but I wonder how RF feels about the recycling of CDs through used CD stores? Each subsequent time a copy of Discipline, for example, is sold, a new ear hears it for the first time, but no new royalty is collected by the deserving artist. BTW, if this is in no way a new thread, forgive me! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:48:32 -0400 From: Dan Cooper Subject: Re: Bill Bruford's Drumming Yeah! And not only did Bruford not drum in time, but also, on "Frame by Frame", it appeared to me that Ade & RF were playing in different time signatures! I don't profess to be a guitar wizard like Neil Schon or that awesome dude from Motley Crue, but the musicians in King Crimson just don't appear to be well versed in the fundamentals of rock-n-roll! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:51:38 EDT From: Mfortfam at aol dot com Subject: Fripp vs. flash photographers vs. Henley In light of recent postings regarding Robert's measured responses to flash photography while performing, I noticed this tidbit in our newspaper over the weekend: Ex- or current Eagles vocalist/drummer Don Henley is being sued by a concert attendee for allegedly throwing a maraca at her from the stage after she snapped a flash photo of him onstage during a recent solo tour. Also allegedly, after finishing the song, Henley lectured the audience while pointing in her specific direction and making unspecified "gestures" toward her. By comparison, Robert's reactions seem quite refined... "A gentleman will walk but never run" ... or throw percussion instruments? Cheers, Mark Fortman YesELPCrim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:26:02 EDT From: DrumSci at aol dot com Subject: Information on Pierre Favre/Prism Jan writes: << And lastly, my questions : I recently received KCCC5-6, which I enjoy very much. There's a piece by Favre on it, 'Prism', a drummers' piece, and particulary Bill is just scary on this one. Now, while fondling:) the jewel case, I noticed on the side this caucasian man with a zappa like moustache and goatie. Could this be Favre? Can anyone recommend me works by him? >> Zurich based Pierre Favre is one of the most respected percussionists/composers in Europe. The original version of "Prism" can be found on the CD "Singing Drums" (ECM 1984) that features a percussion quartet of Pierre, fellow Swiss Fredy Studer, American Paul Motian, and Brazilian Nana Vasconcelos. His music crosses boundaries by using elements of jazz, improvisation, contemporary classical, and ethnic musics. Pierre describes his drumming as "singing" and he is regarded as one of the most melodic drummers working today: a...he showers diverse splatters of heavenly thunder, hard-hitting tremelos, coupled with cascading buffalo and Eastern ambient tones...The Master is clearly in control...a (Cadence) a...Hands, sticks and mallets glide across drumskin, wood and metal with an exquisite delicacy of touch. The playing is not just inventively rhythmic, but full of melodic grace and pointillistic tone colours...a (THE WIRE) a...Pierre Favre is a rare musician. Drummer and percussionist, he is a part of those who see music as a universal language. Since the explosion of the free jazz movement in the 60s-70s, he has risked working in unexplored musical regions....a (Batteur) I have published interviews of Pierre in the November 1993 issue of Modern Drummer and the British music magazine AVANT (#11, Spring 1999). A very detailed interview and discography of Pierre (as well as Fredy and 23 other amazing percussionists/ensembles) is featured in my upcoming book, "Percussion Profiles," to be published by Soundworld in England this winter. A partial discography of Pierre is: Pierre Favre Portrait (solo drums) 1998 Unit Window Steps 1996 ECM European Chamber Ensemble 2000 Intakt Pierre Favreas Singing Drums Souffles 1998 Intakt Singing Drums 1984 ECM Tamia/Pierre Favre Solitudes 1992 ECM De La Nuit...Le Jour 1988 ECM London Jazz Composers Orchestra Double Trouble Two 1998 Intakt Battaglia/Favre Omen 2000 Splasch Gassmann/Battaglia/Favre When We Were 2000 Splasch A good website for photos of Pierre is: http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Pierre%20Favre.html Ciao, Michael Bettine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:06:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Steph Subject: Chicks Am I the only female that digs King Crimson? Lets hear from some of the chicks out there in the newsletter sometime! Can't wait to see them on Saturday in S.F.! -Stephanie Silk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:52:48 -0400 From: Mark Rehder Subject: Re: abortion & napalm? Tom Compagnoni wrote: (snip) "Nobody *likes* abortion, but to include this lyric in a sombre, mournfully sung song - highlighting much of our planets lowest moments in the 20th century - suggests that the singer doesn't only dislike it, but seems to think it is some kind of crime against humanity. This is bible belt talk." Well, I'm glad someone has commented on this. I agree with Tom, but yes, Adrian is obviously anti-choice (I can't use the term pro-life, when it also seems that a majority of pro-lifers [not specifically Adrian] also support the death penalty...). Hey, he's got what, five kids? And yes, folks who believe this way DO treat it as a crime against humanity. Oh well, it's his opinion (and his CD). This doesn't ruin the tune for me anyways, as I think the whole song is tad over-baked, both lyrically and musically. The only interesting stuff is Pat's! For end-of-the-world doom and gloom, I'll take Epitaph or Starless any day! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:15:53 -0700 From: "Christina Shiebler" Subject: Sacred Songs/Trilogy The Fripp remastered edition of Daryl Hall's "Sacred Songs" is much clearer and assertive than the original edition. In particular, many Frippertronics and Fripp guitar parts, which were pretty deeply embedded in the old version, are now crisp, distinct, and much more up front in the mix. And I don't recall anyone mentioning in ET that "Sacred Songs" contains an earlier version of what would become NY3 on "Exposure". It shreds. "Sacred Songs" is a fine album, at times exquisite. Finally, there is of course the version of the song "Exposure" on "Peter Gabriel 2", which manages to be both creepy and hypnotic at the same time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:16:00 -0700 From: "Christina Shiebler" Subject: Bowie/Eno Trilogy <<> From: James Dusewicz > <<> Subject: The 'Trilogy' > >>> The Bowie/Eno/Fripp 'trilogy' is: > >>> Low(1977) >>> Heroes(1977) >>> Lodger(1979) > >>> Fripp also appears on Scary Monsters(1980). Fripp is only on Heroes and Scary Monsters, not the other two. * S. The trilogy that James Dusewicz cites is actually the Bowie/Eno trilogy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 02:23:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: Sacred Song bonis tracks Gary wrote: > > Steve's information above is all correct. However, I feel I have to comment > that I don't agree with the choices for the bonus tracks. Those tracks are > available on Exposure. And I suspect that anyone on this list who has > Sacred Songs is unlikely to be without Exposure (although I suppose one > could argue that few of Hall's fans through Hall and Oates would have > Exposure so for them it's a nice introduction to it; but I'll readily admit > I'm making this argument from a self centered viewpoint!). So for me > including those tracks aren't really bonuses. Howover, the vocal track used on the bonus 'North star' is the one from the original LP, and is IMO superior to the one found on the Exposure CD. Now if only Fripp would release the rest of the LP mixes of Exposure on CD.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:43:16 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Re: Bill Bruford's Drumming >before but it is there when you listen he plays either slightly early or >slightly late. On the live Indiscipline he started out of time and then >drifted into time with Ade. Now don't get me wrong I'm not some human >metronome out to quash offbeat drumming, nor do I have it in for Bill Sorry, but wasn't this the exact point of Indiscipline and, BTW, what the title refers too? Isn't BB supposed to be the wild one trying to distract the others from the beats? I should check the video, but I'm quite sure that if BB and AB aren't exactly in synch, this is due to bad stage sound and/or reverb of the venue. ___ Laurent Masse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:55:53 CDT From: "Trey Five Winds" Subject: Mike McLaughlin's Bruford Observations.... Actually, Mike. You were quite right. Bruford is out of time on the song "Indiscipline".....after all, that's what the song was for. From what I understand from my own research, one of the reasons why "Indiscipline" was written the way it goes was specifically for Bill to go "outside," "Off-time," "Off-meter," and just to plain do what- ever he wanted with the time and the textures of his percussion while the rest of the band (poor old sods) had to play in 5/4 to SUPPORT him. Just one more step of Fripp and Co's efforts to make King Crimsom 1981 different from the rest of the bands out there at the time (The track was originally from the album "DISCIPLINE," in the off-chance that you were not aware). How many bands actually, from time to time, SUPPORT their drummer? Well, we can say King Crimson has, anyway. At one time or another, anyway. Or, maybe not... As for "Three Of A Perfect Pair," I too had the feeling that he was just a bit off before and after in a few places. Probably just acoustics, being unable to hear the tempos properly on that stage, playing with another band member who might inadvertently be just THIS MUCH off, or, for some reason, was unable to concentrate, and here's where the problem that night with that song presented itself: tempo. Or it could have been some of those "sideways fills" that he's so on about -- those places where the jarring event serves more of a musical purpose to Bruford's ears than smooth, "In-Time" fills could have. Sometimes, in going from these back into the main meter, it sounds as if the meter and the rhythm don't quite "settle." This jarring effect may also be what you heard. Or it may have been Adrian, Tony, or Robert, or some combination of some or all three reacting to that in slightly off-time themselves. These are all feasible possibilities. I think it still "felt" right, but didn't mesh quite fully 100% all of the way through the track, but was otherwise just fine. So, criticism from me? No, just an independent analysis. What, us fine folks here at ET criticise you? Why should we? I hope this helps explain some of the oddities, and if not, I hope they sound REALLY convincing, because that's my theorem and, for lack of better ones, I'll stick to them until I write something better or more entertaining, like the reason "Indiscipline" sounding like it does because of the "Alien Influence" or "Three Of A Perfect Pair" being about South Park's Mr. Garrison and Mr. Hat.... Oh well, hope this was all fun anyway. And say, whatever famous "Schizo" people and their personalities might "Three Of A Perfect Pair" be about? Anyone thought of any answers for that as a thread? Not that I'm looking, but, an interesting sounding idea, seems to me... Best Wishes, Trey Five Winds Getting an education was easy. LEARNING things had been HARDER. Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on. Terry Pratchett, "Hogfather" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 04:10:59 -0400 From: "RAYMOND RAUPERS" Subject: Re: Abortion & Napalm Millions of children have died in abortions, effectively dwarfing the losses of the holocaust and all wars and plagues combined. The practice permeates society and represents an undeniable capacity of the human race. KC's accuracy obviously hit a nerve. Which is an often and admirable goal of a team of artists. But keep in mind ET is home to liberal psychobabblists with zero tolerance for conservative politics. Therefore KC's lyrical content regarding politics and moral persuasion will likely be far above ET's utilities. Thank God there's still rock and roll where an artist can appeal to those that care. Bible reading or not. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:07:30 +0200 From: John Sowerby Subject: Remixes >1) Anyone got ideas if some ultra-sick DJ has tried to REMIX some of the >King Crimson stuff? As far as I know, no, but if they do, it might not turn out so bad. Normally, I run away from dance music, but when Marillion and The Positive Light came up with 'Tales From the Engine Room' remixes of 'This Strange Engine' I bought it. It's damn good. It also got played to death in Ibiza that Summer, so the dance credentials must have been pretty good as well. John. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #745 ********************************