Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #742 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 742 Wednesday, 11 October 2000 Today's Topics: Latest Crimson Remasters vs "Definitive Editions"? NYC Supper Club tix on sale/a personal announcement Remasters, David Cross and Noisy Records Crimson Red John Wetton in Mexico approaching gods in public Re: Exposure/Cluster & Eno Re: Double Trio Live Recordings Re: et740 Tokyo tracklist is unfair Different set lists soundtrack for a car wreck Re: The Right of KC to Perform as Themself Heavy ConstruKction tracklist Three of a Perfect Post Re: Fripp Solo Mio Eno, Cluster, and Larks Re: B.L.U.E. Real-Audio? Re: Trilogy Re: The Fruit Salad that is Crim Percussion Eno Re: MASTICA Re: Eno & Cluster Re: BRUFORD LEVIN UPPER EXTREMITIES ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 02:56:18 GMT From: "B Saylind" Subject: Latest Crimson Remasters vs "Definitive Editions"? Has anyone done A/B comparisons for the latest set of remasters vs. the "definitive edition" versions for LTIA, SABB,Red. Is the upgrade noticeable and work the cost/effort? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 10:34:57 -0400 From: "Tom X. Chao" Subject: NYC Supper Club tix on sale/a personal announcement Tickets for the 11/12-13 Supper Club shows are not available at the Irving Plaza box office but I went to Ticketmaster today (Sat.) and purchased a ticket for Mon. 11/13. Face value $40 plus $4 service charge. General admission. I was too late to get a Town Hall ticket but the Supper Club is more intimate and I think I'll prefer standing. May I mention that my new play includes King Crimson content? It is a two-person comedy I have written and directed and in which I appear, entitled "Can't Get Started." In it, I play a character essentially based on myself, so there is some discussion of being a Crimhead, though not overmuch. I do, however, wear my red "Discipline" T-shirt onstage throughout. Interested theater aficionados in the tri-state region may e-mail me privately for details. It runs for 3 more weeks on Fridays. TXC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:46:07 EDT From: Noisynoisy at aol dot com Subject: Remasters, David Cross and Noisy Records Hello from David Cross and Noisy Records! The 30th Anniversary 24-bit Remastered versions of LARKS' TONGUES IN ASPIC, STARLESS AND BIBLE BLACK and RED are now available from the Noisy Records website (http://www.noisy.co.uk). These CDs are a Limited Edition and are produced with a special gatefold cover. They are available at #11.99 including FREE DELIVERY to anywhere in the world! You can buy on-line by credit card or by telephone or fax on (44) 20 8922 7254. Don't forget we are also offering THE NIGHTWATCH (KING CRIMSON), 3 DAVID CROSS CDs including EXILES (featuring Robert Fripp, John Wetton and Peter Hammill ) plus CIVILIZATIONS the new Progressive Electronica CD from RADIUS. All are available autographed by DAVID CROSS (on orders of 2 or more). Very best wishes to you all, David Cross and Noisy Records ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:48:30 EDT From: Obelisk123 at aol dot com Subject: Crimson Red I> > When I buy a ticket for a show, pay quite a bit to get there, and during > the first song or so, someone decided he/she has to take a photo and > then the band simply ends the show, I have wasted an evening & a sum of > money. > I remember at a Zappa show at the Beacon in NYC ( Lte 80's) someone spilt a beer on the mixing board from up above.(Upper teir).. Whatever it did it stopped the show. I believe Frank said sumthang like, " everybody Thank the asshole upstairs who spilt a drink" A light was focused in the general area n the crowd keyed in on a few individuals. everyone booed, flipped the bird n I heard that there actually was a shove match or too.. Anyway, they hooked up a board they had outside the venue in a semi n mixed the show from alley outside. Also during the pause( swich of board stuff) the band improvised , n treated us to some special music.. I believe they called it, " music to fuk around too"..They adapted n went another way.. Same direction different path Shit happens.. people spill drinks, make mistakes n in general terms - there are alot of idiots who a self centered out there. Flat out... Wankerz... There are also folks who are not so well in the know of a certain fan base..Maybe someone should print up flyers n hand them out as people enter the performance space... Sounds corny but u say that this is what yr gettn into... These are the so to speak rules... Have a good time... Bill Graham did it with Jerry Garcia on Broadway in the 80's...The situation was much different of course, but there were concerns about behavior n what not n his security people put out the word at the door n on the street.... So..... I feel there should be rather distinctive signs stateing what the parameters are.... It would be a good thing to do.. I am sure there is enough folks on this fan list who could donate some time to any construction or the delievering of information at each show location.. Take matters into yr own hands... let folks really know.. Not everyone is a super fan like u all... I am going to miss the New Yawk shows due to the sold out nature of the tickets.. I hope the rabid KC devotees don't pummel some poor feller who is not as hip to the situation... There must be a way to get the information out to people n clearly state what WE are all about to do.. They ( The Band) will play n we will listen... Tapeing n photos are not kool..These lil signs at venues are not sufficient...Who is responsable for this exchange of info?? The Band??? The Fans??? I am a strange bird... King Crimson is strange(At times) music.. Robert is a gifted human... He has a vision... He is intense.. The music is intense... U friggn people are intense.... I will see the Ozric Tentacles at Wetlands NYC at the end of October.. I will see some of the soundscape stuff so I can listen for a bit then.. Everyone have fun at the shows... a friend ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:36:27 -0500 From: "Gerardo Liedo" Subject: John Wetton in Mexico John will be plying in Mexico City. The date was changed to December (to be announced) the venue will be "EL GRAN FORUM" in Tasquena. Tickets will be on sale this Tuesday in Disco Acuarius. Mail me if you need additional information Stay crimsonized Gerardo Liedo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:33:07 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: approaching gods in public In ET 740, Ricard Dan Ishoode opined: > I have read some VERY anal comments about how we as the lowly fans 'ought > not even approach the rock God's in a public setting other than a > performance, a movie theater as I recall. > Now I would never interrupt someone, be rude or act inappropriately, after > all I am an adult. If I were in a movie theater with Adrian I would talk to > him in the jovial manner that I do just like I would most anyone else Ah, so though you wouldn't ever be rude, you're quite willing to blether with a notional Ade and ruin my enjoyment of the movie by talking through it. Well *thanks*! Though maybe I'm safe, because Adrian may well be more polite to those sitting around him than that, and/or may also want to watch himself... Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:52:11 +0100 From: "Steve Dinsdale" Subject: Re: Exposure/Cluster & Eno 1. Exposure was in fact part of a mooted trilogy not with Peter Gabriel 1, but Peter Gabriel 2 .It was Daryl Hall's `Sacred Songs' that was number 3 not `Heroes'. They are now all available following the reissue of Sacred Songs on CD. At the time, Daryl Hall's record company shelved the album stating in time honoured fashion that it was unrepresenatative of their artist. It is needless to say, a belter. 2. There are 2 albums on Sky by Cluster & Eno . One is called `After The Heat', the other escapes me. It's generally unremarkable stuff, although tucked away in there are a couple of Eno songs `Broken Head' and `Belldog', both of which are essential. Regards Steve Dinsdale ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:32:30 +0100 From: Nick Loebner Subject: Re: Double Trio Live Recordings > I attended one of the Broadway shows. I like having them all, but my > *favorite* recording of this era is the 1995 "Live In Japan" video. I > listen to the audio portion in the car, and I fell it's the best > mix/performance ratio of any of them. I have it on VHS, LD and DVD. And, > it was mixed by Adrian Belew! Yeah, but doesn't it sound better of you choose the Levin mix?! - Nick. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 08:30:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Kazuhiko Saiga Subject: Re: et740 Tokyo tracklist is unfair to all ETer I am Japanese. This time I don't go KC Japan tour so I can't comment to KC Live shows. about "Tokyo tracklist is unfair " comment, I agree so. I think probably they will record all Japan shows for new live merchadises. Japan has so many KC's die-hard fan. KC Japan tour is Concert Hall tour all, not Clubs or small live shows. Maybe over 20000 (to 30000) people will crowd. Yes, it's a not only very good market but also best market for RF and KC. So Japanese fan has many oppotunity to buy hardly find collectable and reissue cd officially. (When you are in Second-hand LP shop in Tokyo, you can find McDonald & Giles regularly in not expensive price.) from Kaz 2000/10/10 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:48:37 -0500 From: "Loren W. Claypool" Subject: Different set lists For those worried about KC moving to a consistent set list night after night, check out Krimson News. They've added more material and move it around pretty freely for each show. http://www.theclaypools.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 10:51:07 -0500 From: "Chip Orr" Subject: soundtrack for a car wreck I was driven off the road the other day. No real damage, but it was a few moments of terror and excitement. The soundtrack for this episode? Larks IV at full volume. Perfect! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:24:53 -0500 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Re: The Right of KC to Perform as Themself Henning wrote: >Well, you asked for comment on this. I have decided not to see Crimson >on their "COL" tour, and one of the reasons was how Robert reacts >onphotographs. When I buy a ticket for a show, pay quite a bit to get there, and >during the first song or so, someone decided he/she has to take a photo and >then the band simply ends the show, I have wasted an evening & a sum ofmoney. Well, for a start I'm sure your decision to stay away will make Fripp very happy! From what I've read, they haven't actually stopped a show, but the flashes do have an impact on what they play, FraKctured seeming the first to get the axe. >I think it's quite arrogant for a band to say, there is *one* member in >the audience who does not behave the way we want, so none of them will wanted to listen to the music, and because one idiot goes crazy (the guy >with the photo, not RF), the show is ended. I think this is not fair Of course they have every right to do that (but it would be nice if they >said so at the beginning of the show). But YOU know right now! Obviously they have already told you before the show even started, so "niceties" have already been covered. They have said so, you just don't agree.... >But it is my right to decide, >based on these conditions, that I do not want to go to the show. I don't think the guys in KC will lose much sleep over it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:33:20 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Heavy ConstruKction tracklist > I have had similar regrets that the new 3 cd will be made up from the >European tour when it appears that the Japanese and American shows will be >a vast improvement. I will gladly buy, it but my regret is that its existance >may delay any release of the new improved set. On the other hand this may >be Well, this is totally subjective, Brad. I, for one, vastly prefer the complete european set with "fresh" repertoire and a full volume of improvs to the umpteenth live versions of Red, Thela, Elephant and Frame! ___ Laurent Masse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:36:48 -0400 From: David Vella Subject: Three of a Perfect Post Dear Crimsomaniacs, This is to respond to three (hence the subject line) items from ET#741. First: > From: "Danny Anderson" > Subject: Re: Epitaph on KCCC - This Post Wounds Time > > Yo Daevid! Got a butt whippin' regarding your post, didn't you. > Gotta watch what you send to ET enthusiasts..... Danny follows with a lengthy elaboration. Just to set the record straight, I believe that Danny meant this diatribe to be directed to the person (I believe his name was Eric something....) who originally complained about the sound quality of "Epitaph" Disks 3 & 4. My post was a response to Eric, which contained themes that more or less agree with Danny's observations. Oh, well; 'Confusion will be my Epitaph'! Second: > From: "Josh Chasin" > Subject: The Fruit Salad that is Crim Percussion > > In ET #740, Bryan Meyers writes: > > >>>>>Do I miss Bill in KC? Yes. Do I think Pat's contribution is > better or worse than Bill. Apples and Oranges my friends.>>>>> > > I for one beg to differ. Clearly it is Oranges and Lemons. > Touche, Josh! You beat me to the punch-line (pun intended.) Exactly my response! Third: > From: DANNYSTAMPER at webtv dot net (DANNY STAMPER) > Subject: Doctor Diamond and .... > > ..... > Doctor Diamond ......... The only legal version I know of is > included on the Great Deceiver Box Set. Can anyone email me the > lyrics of this rare King Crimson song? > Sorry, I don't have the time to type them out, but I can tell you where to find them. They are printed inside the cover (or on the accompanying booklet - I forget which) of the CD "Monkey Business" by John Wetton & Richard Palmer-James. This CD contains a number of interesting items for folks interested in the '73-74 Crimson, including early demos/snippets of songs like "Easy Money", "Book of Saturday" and "Starless", as well as a version of "Dr. Diamond" which was recorded in 1997. Resplendent in divergence, David Vella PS Just one more issue, some 'cat-food for thought', so to speak. It's very likely that I will miss Crimson on tour this time around - dates in the USA are too few and far between to make it easy for me to attend a show. And yet I read here about folks who have tickets for three shows - and are complaining because the set-list may be the same each night? What planet are they from? I should be so lucky. "You don't miss your water, 'til your well runs dry." - Taj Mahal -- ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* David C. Vella Office: Harder Hall 219 Associate Professor of Mathematics 518-580-5291 Skidmore College dvella at skidmore dot edu Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 Home: 518-587-5363 web-page: http://www.skidmore.edu/~dvella/dcvbio1.htm ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* `I prove a theorem and the house expands, the windows jerk free to hover near the ceiling, the ceiling floats away with a sigh.' -Rita Dove US Poet Laureate (1993) 'Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things that escape those who dream only at night' -Edgar Allan Poe ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:48:07 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Fripp Solo Mio > Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:13:05 EDT > From: Oidtman at aol dot com > Subject: Fripp Solo Mio > > Exposure is the beginning of the trilogy: > > Peter Gabriel's first solo album > > David Bowie's "Hero's" > > Robert Fripp "Exposure" I'm sure I won't be the first to respond, but... Close, but not quite. The intended "trilogy," I believe, was 'Exposure,' Peter Gabriel's *second* solo album (which featured Fripp's production, guitar, and Frippertronics as well as a version of the song "Exposure") and Daryl Hall's 'Sacred Songs' (featuring Fripp's production, guitar, Frippertronics and the Fripp co-penned "NYCNY"). The trilogy idea was scotched by RCA's refusal to release 'Sacred Songs' until years later. As has been mentioned elsewhere before, the 1999 Buddha CD reissue of 'Sacred Songs' is remastered by Fripp, and includes a brief liner note by him (as well as a longer liner note by Jeremy Holiday revealing aborted plans by Fripp and Hall to go on the road with Gabriel's rhythm section of Tony Levin and Jerry Marotta, thus consummating the trilogy) and, appended as bonus tracks, the 'Exposure' cuts "You Burn Me Up I'm a Cigarette" and "North Star." Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com NP - Bobby McFerrin/Herbie Hancock, "What Is This Thing Called Love?" on Dexter Gordon's 'The Other Side of Round Midnight' (Blue Note) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:03:12 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: Eno, Cluster, and Larks IN ET #741, David Voci asks: "Eno has been discovered to have played with Cluster (Germany) on a vinyl by Sky Records (Germany) and I was curious if anybody on list ever heard what I would assume to be a real cool piece of music. And if it made CD release?" Brian Eno made at least three LPs for Sky with Cluster. They are CLUSTER & ENO (Sky 010), AFTER THE HEAT (Sky 021) and BEGEGNUNGEN (Sky 090). Only the first one officially credits "Cluster"; AFTER THE HEAT is credited to "Eno, Moebius, Roedelius", and BEGEGNUNGEN is credited to "Eno, Moebius, Roedelius, Plank." (All the albums were recorded in Conny Plank's studio.) Moebius and Roedelius were Cluster, of course. In 1986 Relativity (in the U.S.) released a CD called OLD LAND (EMCD 8057) by "Cluster & Brian Eno," which is a compilation, drawing upon nearly half of AFTER THE HEAT and selected tracks from the other two albums. If you're into Eno's ambient and post-ambient music, this is music you will want. (So, for that matter, is most of Cluster's previous output, which goes back to the late '60s when they called themselves "Kluster" and were even more experimental.) On a wholly separate subject I recently chanced to hear "The Lark Ascending" by Ralph Vaughn Williams, and I was struck by the blatant similarities between a repeating violin cadenza in that piece and David Cross's contribution to "Larks' Tongues in Aspic Pt. 1." I am forced to conclude that Williams' work was a strong influence at least on Cross and maybe on the entire Crim as that piece was being put together. --TW (Dr P) dc-et #6 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:31:38 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Re: B.L.U.E. Real-Audio? In ET#741 Mark asked: "A year or two ago, there was the opportunity to listen to a B.L.U.E. performance via Real Audio. Does anybody remember the site where that performance was on, and if it's still available?" Mark, Go to the House of Blues site at: http://www.hob.com/live/concerts/980419brufordlevin/ Cheers, Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:38:42 EDT From: MongoBoy at aol dot com Subject: Re: Trilogy In a message dated 10/09/2000 8:35:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Oidtman at aol dot comwrites: > > Exposure is the beginning of the trilogy: > > Peter Gabriel's first solo album > > David Bowie's "Hero's" > > Robert Fripp "Exposure" > > From this point you do the math. You cannot achieve the aim without > suffering. > > cao Your 1/3 correct. It was Peter Gabriel II, and Darryl Hall's "Sacred Songs" that complete the trilogy with "Exposure". ET FAQ confirms this. If you haven't read it, got to FAQ and type "Trilogy". Incidentally, "Sacred Song's" was released last years domestically in US by Buddha Records. Mongo Boy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:08:24 -0500 From: klla at juno dot com Subject: Re: The Fruit Salad that is Crim Percussion How could I have been so blind??? I stand corrected. sincerely, Mayor of Simpleton ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1904 03:20:32 -0400 From: "J. Stephen Huff" Subject: Eno Response to the inquiry about Cluster and Eno--- "Cluster and Eno" Sky records 010 recorded June 1977 in Conny's Studio. Engineer Conny Plank. sky records, Quedlinburger Weg 4, 2 Hamburg 61 "After the Heat" Eno, Moebius, Roedelius (Cluster) Sky records 021 Recorded at Conny's Studio, engineer Conny Plank. No recording date. sky records, Nordhauser Weg 16, 2 Hamburg 61 Excerpts of these records form the CD "Old Land" Cluster and Brian Eno. Relativity Records c1986 EMCD 8057. Less floating ambient and more short, laid-back slowish rhythmic pieces of piano and synth, obviously. The CD is a best-of compilation. Definitely worth pulling out every now and then.... Steve Huff ****************************************** "I don't need more time; I need a deadline." --Duke Ellington ****************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:43:30 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Re: MASTICA "Danny Anderson" wrote: >Oh yes, listen to >Mastica to see where Pat is coming from. It really opened my eyes to >hiscontribution to KCY2K. I hope to see them play in Austin some day. Can you describe them for us? Just what is Mastica like? ~Craig ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:55:39 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Re: Eno & Cluster >Eno has been discovered to have played with Cluster(Germany)on a vinyl by >Sky Records(Germany)and I was curious if anybody on list ever heard what I >would assume to be a real cool piece of music. And if it made CD release? " has been discovered" ??? Huh? Start w/ the wonderful compilation album called "Old Land" & proceed from there. Yes, they are on CD. >Also, in 738, a reader mentioned a Fripp/Eno item called Walk on Wind? >Never heard of this piece. Has anybody else? I believe he meant "Wind on Water" from the LP "Evening Star". (Unless he was referring to some boot or other). Craig S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:13:30 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Re: BRUFORD LEVIN UPPER EXTREMITIES >A year or two ago, there was the opportunity to listen to a B.L.U.E. >performance via Real Audio. Does anybody remember the site where that >performance was on, and if it's still available? Yeah, go here............(fantastic show!!!!!!!) BRUFORD LEVIN UPPER EXTREMITIES Recorded Live at HOB Harvard Square Cambridge, MA 4/19/1998 http://www.hob.com/live/concerts/980419brufordlevin/ Craig S. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #742 ********************************