Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #738 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 738 Tuesday, 3 October 2000 Today's Topics: TCOL T-Shirt Re: The right of King Crimson to perform as themself. Jim Black Three nights in a row OT: SPLaTTeRCeLL releases Great Deceiver available again Re: Epitaph on KCCC? - This Post Wounds Time! Re: Savoy Brown & Bruford Re: Rehearsals with Rick Kemp Fripp painting Fripp & Eno, Howe's handshakes Fripp & Eno (A Primer) "live recording" debate Double Trio Live Recordings New Live? Sunday All Over The World John Perry Barlow Re: Trey's scroll Re: New survey Where to start with Fripp&Eno Robert Fripp Book ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 10:44:21 GMT From: "Clive Lathrope" Subject: TCOL T-Shirt TCOL small t-shirt, unworn, available. Will swap for XL size of same, unworn or Project X CD. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 07:38:45 CDT From: "Trey Five Winds" Subject: Re: The right of King Crimson to perform as themself. Re: Elephant Talk #735 and the right of King Crimson to perform as themself. Regarding the hostility I've seen towards Robert Fripp's "Live Performance Working Conditions": IS THIS REALLY NECESSARY? Do we have to complain about the way the band feels they can perform their work? And is there truly anything unreason- able about the way the band feels they can do their work? I say band because, although Robert doesn't speak for the others, it seems that, from some careful research and rereading (and rereading again) of some diary entries that the band supports Robert's views on this, at least in part; if they support it to any degree, it may be reasonable to assume that they have the same or very similar views on the subject, at least in part. But of course, Robert is getting the most flack for being the one to "speak loudest" on the subject in question. Regarding many various areas of fan commentary and opinion, I don't care that much about what a lot of people write in here about RF or King Crimson; I note that some views reveal very good insight of their holders and that some views show how others either do not think their position through completely or are just writing to get a reaction without contributing anything meaningful or necessary. I am following this topic mainly because of my interest in returning to active duty as a musician, and I feel some very sympathetic resonances with the way King Crimson choose to carry out their live performances. So, this leads me to pose some very necessary questions to "experienced, discriminating intelligent audients." Feel free to comment or ignore this as you may. #1: Why should we blame Robert Fripp (or any other member of KC, or any other member or any other band, or any band at all) if he doesn't want to be photographed while he's onstage "at work?" I can speak with some authority here because I develop film for a living; I am aware of how cameras do their job and the actual processes behind film developing and photography. I can also tell you (as could my employer) that I do not own a single camera and can't stand to have one pointed at me shooting pictures either. I work everyday in an environ- ment where I have to perform my work while prospective customers try out cameras in our store, including flashes; and while I'm trying to pay attention to the visual nature of my work, I've got four flashes a minute going off to the right of me. It is a constant nuisance, it's distracting, it wastes valuable battery power that could be put to use out in the field (and away from my eyes and the eyes of my fellow employees) and it's entirely pointless because no actual pictures are produced in those moments. It is also something I can do nothing about. These are the conditions I work in. They require that I put up with this. To my knowledge, Robert, Adrian, Trey and Pat do NOT work in a camera shop. Nor are they models. They should not have to put up with photography at their shows if they do not wish to. And, speaking as a former performing musician who has experienced the nuisances of flashes going off on me onstage with dimmed lights and a mood beginning to build, it annoys me to no end to know that a device that is designed and capable of releasing THREE DAYS OF COMBINED SUNLIGHT INTO ONE BURST OF LIGHT ENERGY is out there and being engaged for use AT me. It never feels like something that is done to support me, it feels like an act that is committed AT me. And this is true. This is photography by its very nature. There is nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but when musicians are attempting to see something brought to life, they need all the help they can get. Flash photography does not help. If in any doubt whatsoever, try getting up onstage and performing music while someone is shooting pictures at YOU all night. You might then be able to sympa- thise with Robert's point of view on this. (Obviously this doesn't apply to those who are only playing musical instruments for show. Some do, you know.) Should Robert (or the rest of the band) walk offstage and stop their performance because of flash photography? All I can say to this is, from my own experiences, I could not and would not blame any one of them if they did. I've wanted to do it myself, but didn't, and professionalism had nothing to do with staying up on that stage long after the moment was ruined. As far as I'm concerned, Robert is merely demonstrating acting according to principle. Some people could stand to learn from this, even me. #2: Why should we get angry at Robert Fripp or King Crimson for playing what they want to play? When I go to see a band, I want them to play whatever they want to play. I've seen the California Guitar Trio three times. I've enjoyed them each time. They play a variety of songs, and they've even added improvisation to the game plan. I love "Pathways," as far as playing everything that I want to hear from the album, admittedly, the Trio have failed only in this one aspect. But why I don't even consider this is because the rest of the show they played both times, aside from the "Pathways" pieces they DID play, more than made up for this. Immensely so. So, "Pathways," one of my favourite albums, will never be played all on its entirety. This is fine, so long as the CGT play what THEY want to play. If they like it, and go to all of the trouble of arranging it to play, then I say, give it a chance. It's worked won- ders so far. King Crimson has chosen to play a setlist that includes all of the material from "The ConstruKction Of Light," some pieces from "THRAK," a version of "Cage," and some other bits here and there. Basically, King Crimson usually plays new material when they tour. This makes sense, and this is the material they want to play. I'm seeing a lot of people complaining because King Crimson isn't doing this song or that song or old, ancient, or even methuselistic material. Why are you complaining about this? Why should we have to hear "In The Court Of The Crimson Schwing" yet AGAIN? This is why we own the album -- to listen to it at our leisure. This is also why "Epitaph" was made avail- able -- to hear the original band perform this song live at your lei- sure. Why should King Crimson continue to play it now? And do they even WANT to? I would think not, or that they might want to, but aren't sure it's vital enough to include in a set list. And some of us here are going to waste valuable time, energy and resources moaning and complaining about this? It seems like some of the readers bought tickets they can barely afford to see a show they didn't want to see (mind you, how could they know without seeing it that they didn't want to?) by a band that doesn't include everyone they want it to include that features songs that they can't stand anyway. And you wonder why Robert Fripp is telling you to move on? I don't. If I go to see KCY2K and they play their current set list, that's fine. If they choose to change it, that's fine too. If they choose to play something even completely different or to spend all evening as ProjeKct X completely improvising a show, then that's fine too. I know that if they play what they want to play, the intention will come through and I will receive that. And, if it doesn't, I'll at least have had the chance to see them perform live. I'm not going to hold the band to unreasonable preconditions that restrict their work; you can't expect a band to fully be itself by restricting their work. It seems like a lot of people here want to see King Crimson, but only under their conditions. I think that history, diary entries, and references to direct experience all will tell you, however, that King Crimson makes itself known under its own conditions. This is simply how music is. At the very least, we can ac- knowlesge that the band knows its work and we don't; we're not the band, no matter how much some fans like to think they are. I don't presume to tell an artist how to paint a picture or a plumber to fix my sink; pro- vided that the picture is completed or the sink works afterward, why should I care how they got there? I might be interested in the process, but after it's all said and done, if it works, it works. IF you don't believe that this King Crimson works for you, get away from it and leave it to those of us who are willing to give it a chance on its own terms. There's nothing wrong with outgrowing something or disagreeing with something and moving on. It happens. That's life. Life happens while you plan it. Music is the same way. Why shouldn't live performances of music be? #3: Why should we insist that Robert Fripp (or any other member of King Crimson) autograph everything we stick in his face? And why should we get mad when he doesn't? How much value is there to a signature? Sincerely, how much value does it hold? Why is it necessary? ISN'T THE MUSIC ENOUGH? I own two albums signed by the California Guitar Trio. Why did they sign them? They offered to. They didn't mind doing so, and had a pleasant time doing so, talking to people as they were doing this. Tony Geballe too signed his album that I bought. However, if they hadn't offered to sign them, I probably wouldn't have asked. Why? Because a signature is just a signature, for one. For another, it was enough that they got to record theses albums, sell them, and play live to support them. What more could you ask for? WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO ASK ANY MORE OF THEM THAN THEY ARE WILLING TO GIVE? Notice I said it was enough that they got to record these albums and sell them and play live to support them. Notice also that I didn't say "it was enough to me," but that I said "it was enough." And it should be. Musicians are people too. They deserve respect as all people do and have a right to their privacy as all people do. Since when is it any musician's job to be a handwriting practitioner every time they go out in public? What, just because we see Adrian Belew at a movie, does that mean that we should just butt in on his personal time with his family or friends or fellow bandmates just to stare at him ,gawk at him, ask him stupid questions or insist that he practise his signature on a napkin just for our amusement and approval and our collection of keepsakes? Where the hell do we get these asinine ideas? Do we really have to butt in on these peoples' time and start telling them things they don't want to know about people they don't really know who acted or did this or said that because of something they recorded or performed on an album or at a concert? And why should we really expect these guys to remember whether or not we were there? An autograph can be a special thing if given; I personally would rather not have an autograph by someone if they did not wish to give it. Robert takes a somewhat brave and practical way out of this: He doesn't sign them, or signs them in conditions of his own choosing. And people get upset at this. But consider: how much of a pest did you make of yourself? And why? He'll remember this. So will you. There is the opportunity for resentment to build, leading to other things later on that have nothing to do with him, or whoever you got the autograph from. So why ask for it? It's just a signature. A CD doesn't sound any better just because the artist dragged ink across the insert booklet. It just means, sometimes, that they were obtained under special circumstances. But the music should be able to hold up without this. The question, really, is this: Why should we blame Robert or any of the other guys in Crimson for wanting a private life? As human beings, isn't this one of their many rights? #4: Why should we hesitate to attend King Crimson shows based on what Robert Fripp (or Trey Gunn, or Pat Mastelotto, or Adrian Belew) may or may not do in response to audiences who don't obey the "house rules?" These men have already committed to playing these concerts. They committed to putting on the very best concerts they could, and to honour and serve the music to the best of their individual and collective ability. They've put in a lot of time, energy, creativity, manpower, money, resources, and conveniences to make sure we are given an oppor- tunity to see them play live. And now, because some of us don't like the way RF or the rest of the band views certain practises by the audience (regardless of whether or not these practises are actually acceptable) and how they might respond to them, these folks decide they are not going to take a chance on the occasion based on how the BAND reacts to these violations of the house rules. Well, what about the violators? If you are going to refuse yourself the opportunity of a good time and a connection to music you may or may not love (there are some), then why blame it on things that have not even occurred yet? And if they do, why not just put the blame where it belongs -- on the violators? OR, EVEN BETTER YET, WHY DON'T WE ALL JUST REFUSE TO VIOLATE THE HOUSE RULES?!? These rules are fairly simple, easy to act in accordance with, and en- tirely reasonable. They are difficult to understand to some, and I can see why, but consider it from the band's point of view: after 30+ years of doing this for a LIVING, there must be some legitimate reason for these preferences, right? After all, must of us DON'T do this for a living, so maybe it's safe to assume that the band knows what they're talking about and why, right? After all, that's THEIR JOB, isn't it? When all of this is said and done, yes, it's "only talk," but it is with this that I intend to SPEAK. I hope those who can understand and agree with these things see why I wrote them, and I hope those who can't can take a few moments to see why they don't. Best Wishes, Trey Five Winds ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:58:37 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Jim Black Hi, I second melvin zirkes recommandation for Jim Black. He's really awesome. I've never seen him live, but what he does on records is really incredible. Besides the great band 'pachora' melvin mentioned he plays also in Tim Berne's Bloodcount (a two saxes, bass and drums. Excellent free jazz) , Dave Douglas's Tiny Bell Trio (DD -trumpet, Brad Shepik - gt, and Jim Black - dr. An incredible, very intense band). He's just releasing his first solo album on Winter&Winter. He's also played on the live uri cane's mahler album on W&W. One of the finest drummers. Marcin Gokieli marcin dot gokieli at mospan dot pl marcingokieli at go2 dot pl ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:27:29 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Three nights in a row Hi, I wirte to comment Aaron P Deglanville opinion on the sameness of Crimso sets. First, let me say that having attended the two consecutive nights at Warsaw, Poland , I felt very happy to have done so. And I am not a complete Crimso freak, i do not listen to fripp very often (anymore). I think that the pieces are so difficult and complicated, that a single show is not enough. And there is a certain feeling of security when you know that you are going to see the band again tommorow. Second, it's not true that the sets will be the same. The improvs are different, and not only as improvs - they play different improvised pieces, not improvise in a different way the same pieces (which was the case with THRAK on double trio tour. Which was not as good as this one IMHO) Third, despite the fact that it would be nice to hear CaT Food or Elephant talk, we have to undrstand that for this band imposing itself as a new band playing its new repretoire. The demand for repatingg the older stuff is very strong, and i think that some strong reaction is necesssary if one does not want to be a musuem piece. I play in a small, really unknown band, and we already had those problems (on a mini - scale, of course) after any bigger stylistic/repertoire shift. "oh, it's a shame you did not play xxx". "Why is it all-improvised now? I liked the previous thing batter". "Why there's no drummer anymore. It lakcs beat". MAybe it's all true, but i play what i want to play, and what is relevant and fun for me at the present moment. If i were asked (which will never happen, of course) to play some older material, i could maybe do it in good conditions once for fun - but it would not be very much fun, our old material was quite complicated, and preparing all those arrangemants would be quite hard. i'd rather like somene else doing it. As i say that is for a small band that just plays a gig now and then! Think how hard it is for a band like Crimso! And the most important: these shows are really excellent. The bands is really strong. Much stronger then the double trio. More intensity, less 'show', more improv, better improv, more fun, more power. And maybe they'll have some new tunes already? During the thrak/thrakattek tours they introduced older material. Marcin Gokieli marcin dot gokieli at mospan dot pl marcingokieli at go2 dot pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 09:58:54 EDT From: Texture444 at aol dot com Subject: OT: SPLaTTeRCeLL releases hey, all. just to inform ya of some new releases: SPLaTTeRCeLL -(a/k/a, david torn)- release dates: In stores & online NOW: ReMiKSiS:::AH (CD & vinyl; 65 minute EP--- includes REMIXES of SPLaTTeRCeLL ::: OAH by: Charlie Clouser (NiN), Ryuichi Sakamoto, Dan the Automator, Carter Burwell, SPLaTTeRCeLL feat. Tim Bowness (of NoMan), Yoshihiro Hanno, Fernando Aponte, & Gareth Williams..... PLUS one extra SPLaTTeRCeLL track) Oct. 3rd SPLaTTeRCeLL:::OAH (!the full-length CD!) All On CeLLDiviSioN/75Ark: http://www.75ark.com SPLaTTeRCeLL: http://www.gaalore.com/davidtorn.nsf/Pages/soah Solid States: http://www.gaalore.com/davidtorn.nsf List site: http://www.egroups.com/group/davidtorn CeLLDiViSioNReCoRDS = uncontrolled substance ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 10:55:26 -0400 From: "Kevin Mather" Subject: Great Deceiver available again I see the Great Deceiver box set is again available from DGM. Does anybody know if this is from the same master as the previous version that was available in the early 90's, or is this a remastered version? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 10:48:19 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Re: Epitaph on KCCC? - This Post Wounds Time! David Vella wrote: >If you ask me, DGM was being more "honest" and considerate of their >enthusiasts than any other record company I can think of. They deserve >KCudos, not KComplaints, for both how they handled Epitaph and for later >providing the KCCC. I agree, especially since they were offered at such an incredibly reasonable price. It`s a very nice archive item. Craig S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:02:17 -0400 From: "Bill Kraemer" Subject: Re: Savoy Brown & Bruford I read in a Bruford interview somewhere that Savoy Brown booted him before the drum throne could even get warm. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 11:06:31 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Re: Rehearsals with Rick Kemp Edgar Kausel wrote: >Fripp tells in his diary he has the tape containing >the rehearsals with Rick Kemp. Since it's from the >Lizard period, i think it would great to have it as a >KCCC release. >Show your interest and they might release it... I have no idea who this gentleman is, but *ANY* "Lizard" related recordings are of the *highest* importance to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Craig Shropshire ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:43:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael J. Bennett" Subject: Fripp painting Everyone is invited to view my humble attempt at an oil portrait of Robert Fripp. The url is: http://home.att.net/~illoman/Musicians.html Thanks. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:53:48 -0400 From: Andy Acunzo Subject: Fripp & Eno, Howe's handshakes "Miguel Farah F." wrote: >I've been considering buying some Fripp & Eno stuff, so I'd like some >advice here. Is the "Essential Fripp & Eno" the best place to start, as >the title implies. If not, which other album should I get first? I'm no expert so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is the best place to start because it contains the entire NO PUSSYFOOTING album as well as a couple of tracks from their only other album, EVENING STAR. (There are also some awful bonus tracks.) "David F. Snyder" wrote: >From the perspective of personal health, I think Mr. Howe is very wise >to not shake hands with whomever and be exposed to god knows what germs. I'm pretty sure I read in an interview that the reason he doesn't often shake hands with fans is that overzealous fans can sometimes grab hold very firmly and he has to protect his hands. It may seem pompous but the guy makes his living with his hands (heaven knows we wouldn't want him to be left with only his singing voice!) :) Andy Acunzo ------------------------------ Date: 1 Oct 00 14:58:31 EDT From: James Dusewicz Subject: Fripp & Eno (A Primer) I have to say to begin with I got into Messrs. Fripp and Eno in the early eighties on vinyl. I later picked up the CD's. From my perspective the Fripp & Eno collaborations can be broken up into two catagories: 1) Eno's first 4 solo releases and 2) Eno's collaborations. Note: This distinction is verified on both ENO I and ENO II. The Brian Eno Box sets released in the early to mid-nineties. Brian Eno's first four[regular] albums are all worth owning intriniscally(i.e. HERE COME THE WARM JETS(1971), TAKING TIGER MOUNTAIN{By Strategy}(1972, ANOTHER GREEN WORLD(1973), and BEFORE AND AFTER SCIENCE(1974). Fripp(as well as the cream of progressive/pre-punk rock) guests on HCTWJ,AGW, and BAAS. It goes without saying that these albums are 'classic'. Fripp and Eno released two rather well known ambient seventies albums. These are NO PUSSYFOOTING(1971) and WIND ON WATER(1972). Both are Frippertronics overlayed by Brian Eno treatments, and Fripp's guitar loops. I prefer WOW myself. I own THE ESSENTIAL FRIPP AND ENO. It has the best constiuent parts of NP and WOW. It also has an ambient compostion not released on the above two albums. TEFAE is very good. If you want seventies Ambient music by F & E buy it. It has something left off of NP & WOW. However, no Brian Eno collection would be complete without his first four albums. They are 'straight'(if you can call Roxy Music music 'straight') rock with huge doses of Eno humor. If you are a die hard Eno fan(like I am) ENO I and ENO II has all of his singles like his version of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight", ENO I), and other oddities. Fripp and Eno have also guested on albums by John Cale and Nico(ex-Velvets). Each of those ex-Velvet members are just as musically esoteric as Brian Eno is. Cale's humor and 'straight' albums and Nico's Germanic hubrus[most of which were produced by John Cale. See Nico's THE END. jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 15:22:28 EDT From: Scour12345 at aol dot com Subject: "live recording" debate I would just like to let all of the whining, negative, so-called King Crimson fans out there know something: to me, you people sound like mere casual fans. I for one would celebrate and rejoyce ANY official live recording by King Crimson, regardless of level of sound quality. Any naive person criticizing the Epitaph box-set or any other KCCC release should be thankful that both K.C. and DGM would have enough integrity and dedication to release them at all. Not only that, but it seems like some people may be ignorant to the fact that in 1969, recording technology was worlds away from where we are in 2000. Instead of being ungrateful because the sound quality isn't up to your standards, how about respecting the fact that these recordings are a sacred piece of history. A moment in time captured for all to cherish in all of its glory. And as for the whole "bootleg issue"... I would rather give my hard earned cash to DGM for a live recording with poor sound quality, than waste my money on a superior sounding bootleg. Better for Fripp & Singleton to have my money than some sneaky, greedy, unknown jerk. - Dave Polidoro ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 11:14:38 -0400 From: Don Cooper Subject: Double Trio Live Recordings Dear Debates, Dialogues and Duologues, The recent discussions of club vs. general releases made me nostalgic for the six piece KC of the mid-nineties once again. Ashley Collins wrote: "...the KC on Broadway double CD would have made a better general release than B'BOOM. However, since B'BOOM was already out there, it would have been a bit redundant to release Broadway as such." I attended one of the Broadway shows. I like having them all, but my *favorite* recording of this era is the 1995 "Live In Japan" video. I listen to the audio portion in the car, and I fell it's the best mix/performance ratio of any of them. I have it on VHS, LD and DVD. And, it was mixed by Adrian Belew! Don http://www.cooperaudio.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 20:24:20 GMT From: "Mark Kisselbach" Subject: New Live? I read Fripp's recent diary entry about Pat's mixing of Live European shows 2000. Is this true? Then I saw on the KC releases that it's a forthcoming November release. Does anyone know more about it? I'm hoping it's not a Collector's Club CD and can be gotten at DGM or at stores. Always craving new 2000 live KC! - --Mark (mwkbach at hotmail dot com) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:33:06 EDT From: EdibleWrecks at aol dot com Subject: Sunday All Over The World I really enjoyed the Sunday All Over The World recording. Why did the band stop at one, decide not to tour the U.S., etc., etc., etc? Just curious. Loved the album. P.S.: Excellent job making ET available on AvantGo! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:44:51 EDT From: EdibleWrecks at aol dot com Subject: John Perry Barlow Curious as to whether Robert or other ETers have had the opportunity to read "The Next Economy of Ideas, Will Copyright Survive The Napster Bomb? Nope, But Creativity Will" in the October 2000 issue of Wired Magazine. Mr. Barlow seems to take a diametrically opposed position from Mr. Fripp on this issue of ownership of creative output. It is a very interesting piece. Thought I'd send you all a head's up. As soon as it appears on the web (as is Mr. Barlow's and Wired's custom) I'll send it along for review and comment. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 02:19:53 EDT From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: Re: Trey's scroll Dave & Racquel wrote: >Anyway, it was... HIERARCHTITIPTITOPLOFTICAL >Go figure... "Heirarchitectitiptitoploftical" is a word from James Joyce's _Finnegans Wake_. Clittering up and clottering down, Biffy the Elephant Shrew (Is anyone heading up the Peninsula for the October 19th Fillmore show who can offer a ride to a small furry mammal?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:56:27 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Re: New survey >So, now we're having a survey about rudeness. Who is more rude: an >audience member who disobeys the rules and is escorted out of the venue, >or the band member who decides, because of this, all other admission >paying concert-goers (who don't even know that person) aren't deserving >to hear that cut (to quote RF: "I don't play FraKctured at photo >sessions"), or aren't worthy of his presence? How about this survey: Do >the audience deserve to have their admission price refunded when these >things happen? Is a survey really necessary? I am lucky enough to live This seems to be generally agreed upon, but really I cannot understand it: Is it written somewhere on the ticket or even verbally mentioned to you when you buy it that the band WILL play FraKctured? Are you given a setlist or even a duration of the concert? Do you pay for quantity or quality? Whenever RF leaves the stage because of inadapted audience behaviour, is the important thing what's been played up to that point or what you EXPECT could have been played after, although it was not written anywhere on your ticket? Does RF not behaving as you EXPECT make the music any worse? Really, asking for a refund is totally over the top! Plus when you buy a ticket, you pay the promoter/venue, but NOT RF!!!!!! Why always make it a $$$ issue when CLEARLY IT IS NOT??!! >If anyone decides to walk out, it >may be me finally. It is starting to sound risky to see RF. Risk? What risk? $$$$$, once again??? Keep it in your pockets if you're not prepared to assume the risk that goes with any mass event! ___ Laurent Masse ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 16:07:40 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Where to start with Fripp&Eno Hi, AFAIK they released two LPs: 'no pussyfooting' and 'evening star'. both are great, the former maybe more neurotic. The 'essential' is, however, remastered so it can sound better then the orgininals CD ( i don't know wheteher it' notable as I have the originals on vinyl), and includes also strange pieces called 'healthy colors I-IV').It may be a good place to start. I'd also strongly recommend Eno pop albums from this period: 'here come the warm jets', 'Taking tiger mountain (by strategy)', 'Another green world', and 'Before and after Science'. They are incredible, and feature excellent line-ups (fripp is on all of them. Also included are fred frith, John Cale, etc.). Marcin Gokieli marcin dot gokieli at mospan dot pl marcingokieli at go2 dot pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 14:05:16 CEST From: "Dominik Brueckner" Subject: Robert Fripp Book Hi There! I have been searching for "Robert Fripp: From King Crimson to Guitar craft" By Eric Tamm for a while and couldn't find it anywhere. Maybe there's somebody out there who can help me? As I know what Amazon.com is: Is there someone who has two copies or would sell his old one? That would be great! Please mail to: nikbrueckner at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #738 ********************************