Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #734 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 734 Saturday, 30 September 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: Aplogies for ET delays NEWS: California Guitar Trio/Tony Levin New Release available on-line! NEWS: KC remasters and other releases GIG BIZ: Crimso Date added in San Diego GIG BIZ: T-Levin to be at benefit new survey Greg Lake TCOL in Playboy Fripp-Fayman on Hearts of Space Copy King Crimson DVD on sale Trey Gunn Band live something about the guestbook & diaries Hands Quicker than the eye HDCD and SACD What is a real drum sound anyway? three (shows) of a perfect pair Norbert Fragg Moves On Is this allowed?, radiohead, yada yada yada i wish you were here to see it! DGM market practices KC to non-initiate Just an opinion from ETers that I want. Re: Remastered KC Works fripp's consent ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:00:37 -0600 From: Toby Howard (ET Moderator) Subject: NEWS: Apologies for ET delays Folks, please accept my apologies for the sporadic appearance of ET in the last few weeks, and especially for news and announcements which didn't make it out in time to be useful. There's quite a backlog of posts, and there'll be several ETs coming out over the next few days to catch up. Then we're back to normal service. Cheers Toby ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:00:37 -0600 From: Jon Lybrook Subject: NEWS: California Guitar Trio/Tony Levin New Release available on-line! The California Guitar Trio's new on-line store, CGT Direct, is now on-line and offers secure ordering of CGT recordings and other merchandise. Ordering from CGT Direct is a great way to support the California Guitar Trio. Unlike buying from other retailers, the money from every CGT Direct purchase goes directly to the CGT! CGT Direct also sells some recordings you can't find elsewhere, like the new CGT Direct Collectors' Series, Volume 1 - Monday Night in San Francisco, featuring Tony Levin, recorded May 1, 2000 at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco. Hear RealAudio tracks from the new DOUBLE CD on the CGT's Discography page: http://www.cgtrio.com/discmnsf.htm The CGT Direct Collectors' Series is an experimental project to release one or two roughly mastered recordings per tour in an attempt to satisfy the seemingly consistent demand for live CGT material and to give fans the opportunity to help support the band. The recordings are all made on the CGT's own, high-quality ADAT equipment with which they record all their shows. Help Paul, Bert, and Hideyo keep tape in the machine! Order your copy of CGT Direct Collectors' Series, Volume 1 - Monday Night in San Francisco from CGT Direct by going to: http://www.cgtrio.com/cgtdirect.htm Thanks! Jon Lybrook CGT Webmaster/ CGT Direct ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:05:52 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: NEWS: KC remasters and other releases Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Here are some excerpts for Crimson fans: Let's start with the latest on the next round of King Crimson remasters which you'll find on our Discipline page King Crimson/Lark's Tongue in Aspic King Crimson/Starless and Bible Black King Crimson/Red Of course you all know about these impending remasters. I just got word this week, though, that their release has been pushed back from October 3, to October 17. I know that's disappointing as we're all quite anxious for these. But fortunately it's only two extra weeks which isn't as bad as it could be. Available now on our DGM and Rykodisc pages Fayman & Fripp/A Temple in the Clouds Recorded live from a past life, A Temple in the Clouds invokes a voyage on an ancient mariner vessel bound for what might be the Earth's end. Strange mists rise as we slowly drift upon the encompassing sparkling seas where sacred primordial ritual meets modern amplified sound. Awash in the looping structures of Robert Fripp's guitar soundscapes, Jeffrey Fayman adds an opulent cinematic brilliance to the proceedings, creating an intense and dramatic vision of a future rich in the heritage of Fripp's past. Recored live from a past life. Nine years in the making, A Temple in the Clouds is a unique collaboration between one of rock's most important and influential guitarists and a contemporary cinematic composer. Fripp's contribution of two hours worth of treated guitar work (his trademark "Frippertronics") formed the basis for Fayman's layering of interwoven electronic soundscapes. Focusing on the subtleties and slight shifts in overtones and harmonics, Fayman and Fripp have created a dynamic musical kaleidoscope, every changing and instrinsically radiant in each sonic fractal. This album, released on the Projekt label, is very reminiscent of Fripp's early work with Brian Eno - No Pussyfooting and Evening Star. soundbite New releases from Voiceprint and associated labels Keith Tippett with Mujician and the Georgian Ensemble/The Bristol Concert For over twenty years Keith Tippett has been at the forefront of contemporary European jazz and new music. Keith has been a solo pianist, composer, bandleader, band member and musical educator. Mujician is Keith Tippett's most successful improvising group, joined for this project by Julie Tippetts, formerly known as Julie Driscoll. This recording took place at St. Georges, Brandon Hill, Bristol on June 1st 1991, as part of The Bath International Music Festival. The Georgian Ensemble are eleven musicians, who feature, trumpets, saxophones, guitars and vocals. Featured here are selected pieces which Keith had written over the previous 15 years. They are compositions that would give the ensemble enough structure to feel secure in, but enough freedom to fly away from if the spirit desired. soundbite - Gordon Haskell/All In The Scheme Of Things Gordon Haskell was a member of cult Mod band Fleur De Lys in the sixties and then went on to replace Greg Lake in King Crimson. There followed two classic albums 'In The Wake Of Poseidon' and 'Lizards.' He also worked with Alvin Lee, Cliff Richard, Tim Hardin and Van Morrison. This is a new studio album, recorded in 1999. Robbie McIntosh (McCartney, The Pretenders) is among the featured musicians. All In The Scheme Of Things is a laid back collection of songs highlighting Gordon's deep soulful rich voice, which bears comparisons with Dire Straits, JJ Cale, John Martyn and Chris Rea. soundbite - And I should mention this release from ET contributor Tim Bowness! Tim Bowness and Samuel Smiles/The Way We Used To Live This is a direct to CD recording of a performance at The Cambridge Folk Club on the evening of December 3rd 1999. What you get is what actually happened, there really are " no overdubs ". After hearing it back for the first time, the band hastily scrawled into their respective notebooks, 'some magic,some fluffs'. The band are influenced by the timeless sensuous late night ambience and doomy atmospherics of John Martyn, Arab Strap, Blue Nile, Nick Drake, Mark Eitzel and Leonard Cohen. In fact two Nick Drake covers are featured in this set, 'Fly' and 'Black Eyed Dog', as well as four cuts from last year's debut album ' World Of Bright Futures '. King Crimson tour dates for Japan and the US are now available! As I believe they've already been posted here, I won't take up the space to repeat them. However, if any of you didn't catch those dates, I have them posted at along with the remainder of the California Guitar Trio's tour schedule. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 02:52:55 -0400 From: Kathryn Ottersten Subject: GIG BIZ: Crimso Date added in San Diego Hi Crimpersons, A King Crimson show has been added to the US Tour. There will be a show on October 25 in San Diego, CA, at 4th & B. Tickets are already on sale at Ticketmaster (I checked). I want to thank Bruce Davis for spotting an ad for the show in his local paper and sending me the heads up. Thanks Bruce. Kathy Ottersten ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 02:59:34 -0400 From: Kathryn Ottersten Subject: GIG BIZ: T-Levin to be at benefit Hi Crimpersons, Just in case you have not checked Tony Levin's road diary in a while, he has added a date for Sept. 28 to be part of a benefit show in Woodstock, NY, at the Bearsville Theater. He will be appearing with with vibraphonist Mike Mainieri. Kathy Ottersten ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:02:42 -0400 From: Michael McGrath Subject: new survey So, now we're having a survey about rudeness. Who is more rude: an audience member who disobeys the rules and is escorted out of the venue, or the band member who decides, because of this, all other admission paying concert-goers (who don't even know that person) aren't deserving to hear that cut (to quote RF: "I don't play FraKctured at photo sessions"), or aren't worthy of his presence? How about this survey: Do the audience deserve to have their admission price refunded when these things happen? Is a survey really necessary? I am lucky enough to live in NYC and will be at The Atrium at the WFC (as I have many times before) and at Town Hall in November. If anyone decides to walk out, it may be me finally. It is starting to sound risky to see RF. I sent a post on this after reading that RF quote in his diary, but it was apparently flagged. Hopefully this one won't be. That would be unfair: to have a survey but flag input on the topic. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:39:04 -0400 From: neil at extech dot com (Neil Lore) Subject: Greg Lake Why does Crimson run ads using Lake's voice when Greg's been out of the group for 300 years?? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:20:08 -0500 From: Jeff and/or Cynthia Subject: TCOL in Playboy A micro-review in the October 2000 US issue, text follows: "Over three decades with King Crimson, Robert Fripp has inspired bands as diverse as Metallica and Phish with his heavy-metal thunder, jazz timing, and avant-classical themes. The ConstruKction of Light (Virgin) is arguably Crimson's hardest-rocking effort ever. The tricky time signatures remain, but Fripp and co-guitarist Adrian Belew let it rip on searing instrumentals. Fripp's laserlike solos can shift from terrifyingly ominous to cosmically serene and back again in the space of one song. --Vic Garbarini" Even though you read it here, go buy the issue anyway. Show 'em you care. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:12:33 -0700 From: Marc J Goodman Subject: Fripp-Fayman on Hearts of Space Hi All, Just a momentary delurk. Hearts of Space, an excellent hour of radio which we are blessed with here in LA on Sunday nights at approximately 10:30 on one of the public stations will air a brief excerpt from A TEMPLE IN THE CLOUDS in a mix of music described in their email listing as "Electronic images of paradise" which I receive weekly via their website "www.hos.com". The shows are available in streaming audio as well as in various markets here in the USA. For more info please go to the site, as I am not affiliated in any way other than as a frequent listener and admirer of the mixes they present every week on the radio here. Also on this particular evening, I'm looking forward to several cuts by Michael Stearns, an incredible composer and soundscapist in his own right, who I highly recommend you all check out if you're not familiar with him. A websearch will probably turn up some info on him. Again, this is not a commercial. Some Klaus Schulze music will be on this program right before FAYMAN AND FRIPP, as well. I hope this makes it into a newsletter in time for some of you to investigate and find this great show, as it will probably sound better on the radio than on the web. I may be mistaken, though. The title of the show is PGM 572: "SHORES OF HEAVEN". Now, I hope I remember to tune in, myself..... Marc J Goodman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:37:08 -0400 From: "Ressel, David Lee" Subject: Copy King Crimson DVD on sale FYI: there is a copy of the King Crimson DVD for sale for $18 in the Video Store (Blowout Video?) on the Ground Floor of my office Building (1515 Broadway) in the heart of NYC's Times Square. I've already purchased one (at full price!) and recomend it to all (even if you don't have a DVD player!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 22:48:50 GMT From: "Matt D" Subject: Trey Gunn Band live What a great show this was. I was thrilled to finally see these guys live. I was most looking forward to see Bob Muller play. I love the way he combined hand drumming and drumset. At times playing Tabla with one and and set with the other. I recommend seeing these guys if you have a chance you won't be disappointed. The show seemed to go very quickly, but in reality it was quite long. I got so into the music i didn't realize that they played for nearly an hour and a half. After the show I had the oppurtunity to meet Trey. I asked him about the strange device he held on his strings during the first song of the set. He told me that it was a mini amp (the kind that looks like a pack of cigarettes). I am not quite sure what it did but you can hear it on the new album (during track 6 i think). Anyone have any info about Bob Muller? A website? Who has he played with in the past? I am really curious about him. My band (who kind of has a Crimson Influence) has MP3's for download. The main instrument is an electric banjo. Sound strange? Check out this tracks (especially Electric Sandwich) and hear this guy play the banjo in a way i never heard before. Fripp like in a way. The site is http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/spacestation_integration.html Matt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 10:03:13 EDT From: CHMoller at aol dot com Subject: something about the guestbook & diaries well, reading the latest fripp's comments to the guestbook, some things came to my mind: what it seems is that when a fan buy a CD or a ticket, one take for granted that: - the music will be the one expected - the artist has to sign an autograph - hey, i can take pictures, why not ? 1- first as a listener, then as a fan, it really doesn't matter if: a- fripp doesn't like photos at all. b- fripp doesn't sign autographs (i have one, and paid for that. that was MY choice !) c- fripp stop doing shows at all. d- the new kc is better or worse than the other incarnations. they're all different in spirit... and you'll have to listen with a differentiated spirit too ! 2- to me, it really matters: a- fripp continues playing. studio or live. my other prefferred band, XTC, stopped playing live in 1982 ! b- kc continues its existence. no matter who is in it, as long as its spirit is there. c- if there's still good music. and i'm not saying "frakctured" is worse than "fracture" here. the good music always lead you to a higher shift, a new challenge. you'll have to listen with virgin ears. fripp is a common person as any of us, with all the good and bad things we all have. just try to walk in his shoes, i'm sure you won't like it at all. i was reading some Eminem lyrics (hey, it's music, another kind , but music) and found these verses which, i think, apply: "...But at least have the decency in you to leave me alone when you freaks see me out in the streets when i'm eating or feeding my daughter to not come and speak to me. I don't know you and, no i don't owe you a motherfucking thing.... ..... And i'm thankful for every fan that i get but i can't take a shit in the bathroom without someone standing by it.... you knew i won't sign your autograph you can call me an asshole. i'm glad..." well, that's it ! i expect nothing but music, 'cause music is all that matters !! peace carlos h moller brazil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 11:08:28 -0400 From: "melvin zirkes" Subject: Hands Quicker than the eye Several months back, I recall reading a post that commented on Jamie Muir playing a drum kit and assorted percussion instruments simultaneously. It seems to be a rare, rather sought after talent. Anyone interested in direct observance of such a feat should check out jazz drummer, Jim Black. I've seen him a couple of times, and highly recommend his work with Pachora. His performance last night was incredible. He'd be banging away with the drum sticks, I'd blink, and all of a sudden he's got a brush in one hand and moraccas in the other. Then I don't even blink, and he's lost the moraccas and has a string of bells. He's truly a show by himself. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 18:34:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: HDCD and SACD > Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:33:17 +0200 > From: "Jim Clark" > Subject: Remastered KC Works and Situation Dangerous > > I emailed DGM about ordering the pending remastered versions of Starless, > Red and LTiA on Monday without reply. Presumably, my email did not qualify > as worthy of response. Or, the public notice of the remasters was about to be released, and they hope dyou'd see that instead. I got it via email (though I'd already pre-orderded via The Artist's Shop a week or two before that). > I will buy these remasters, since I have only the original EG Records CD > versions that were not handled and approved by Fripp. These new 24bit > versions should be quite a sonic improvement. I do wonder about the > decision to make them HDCD encoded though. HDCD encoding only works on CD > players with a special HDCD chipset. This chipset will provide enhanced > sound but will still not rival the original vinyl pressings. Sez you. Actually they're almost certain to be more accurate reproductions of the *master tape* than any of the vinyl pressings, since mastering for vinyl, and vinyl playback, introduces several sorts of deviations from 'fidelity'. > HDCD has been > around for several years but still doesn't have many adherents. Only about > 12-15 CD manufacturers use these chips in their boxes. On the other hand > Super Audio CD (SACD) and DVD-Audio (DVD-A) are two new CD > recording/manufacturing techniques that purportedly surpass vinyl in > recreating music. HDCD is back-compatible; you can play your HDCDs on a non-HDCD player. You the few 'extra bits' that HDCD claims to squeeze from the digital transfer process. IMO most of the benefit actually comes from careful mastering and choice of source tape, rather than from HDCD encoding itself. > SACD has been available for about eight months and DVD-A players are just > becoming available. Sony and Philips are the creators of SACD. Unlike HDCD, which is really just a sort of tweak on standard digital recording -- as is '24-bit' dithered down to 16 -- SACD is a whole 'nother type of digital transfer. > nice to have one player (DVD-A) that does movies and music equally well but > SACD has garnered the better music reviews so far. Both new CD formats are > backward compatible and can be played on 16bit machines. ?? AFAIK SACD is *not* backwards-compatible. Also AFAIK there have been no well-controlled comparisons of SACD vs DVD vs CD players (or formats). By well-controlled, I mean that that *only* variable is the format, and the test is performed double-blind. Until then I'm inclined to believe that improvements noted for SACD once again reflect differences in care taken in mastering, not the format per se. > I wonder why Mr. Fripp didn't do these recordings with SACD or DVD-A. Maybe > for the third remaster. For on thing, SACDs (and SACD players) currently cost a bundle. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:56:41 +1100 From: "STUDER, Andrew" Subject: What is a real drum sound anyway? It's interesting how the whole "v-drums" thing is such an enduring thread in E.T., and another mention of it in the last issue caused me to ponder a comment of Frank Zappa's I read somewhere. He pointed out that the standard "rock drum sound" is a completely unrealistic representation of the instrument's natural sound: close miking each part of the kit, using different mikes on different drums etc. Now for sure it sounds great, but does it sound "natural?" And, the question that interests me, how much of a drummer's way of playing is dictated by "the drum sound". The two things I like about the drum sound on TCoL are (1) I think they sound really cool (ok, that's just my opinion) (2) I think that Mastellotto has put a lot of time and effort into - and succeeded in - working out how to play them. To me it sounds like he's been able to experiment with, and modify, his approach to the kit to get the most out of the opportunity that electronic drums give him. I particularly like the way he seems to muck around with filtering effects - given that analog filter sweeps are such a cliche these days, I feel that his ability to make filter effects sound fresh is a real achievement. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:55:33 -0500 From: "Aaron P Deglanville" <"aaron_deglanville"@uhc.com> Subject: three (shows) of a perfect pair It is with sad regret that I offer up my KC Fillmore (San Francisco) tix for sale: Thurs & Fri nights, $36 each. I'm still going Saturday night, and very much looking forward to it. I am, however, irked by having only just recently discovered that KC will be playing more or less identical sets all three nights (please spare me an explanation of how every KC show is unique in its own special way). I would have felt flat-out ripped off if I had discoved this after attending all three shows--not that I wouldn't have enjoyed the shows, but because it seems to me that the prospective audience is entitled to some kind of warning or disclaimer before dropping over $100 to see the same show three nights in a row. I know that some of you feel that this is a fully worthwhile investment, which I can respect. I'm just wondering if many enthusiastic multiple ticketholders are going to feel duped when they go in expecting different sets. Isn't this the usual expectation of a band playing consecutive nights at the same venue? I'm writing not only to inform ET readers who might not have known otherwise, but also to welcome divergent points of view. If my reasoning or assumptions seem flawed, I am most open to hearing it. (While this invitation certainly extends to Fripp, I hope he will save himself the trouble of a bombastic, condescending reply that reiterates his wildly incorrect assertion that a purchased ticket entitles me to nothing more than admittance to the venue [see DGM diary], expresses his disdain for me personally, and exhorts me to have no further contact with his artistic output. Anything else is quite welcome.) As a perhaps unwelcome sidebar to this topic, I have to wonder aloud anew why KC2K is restricting themselves to such a tiny slice of their (huge, rich) potential repertoire. Why, why, WHY, if they can't even put together enough material for three different shows??? Has Fripp already answered this one elsewhere? Help me out here, folks. I'm baffled. It almost seems tragic to me. Still loving TCoL, aa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:41:48 EDT From: Bknt at aol dot com Subject: Norbert Fragg Moves On Guitar Wonk continues in New Jersey, at Mount Misery, an appropriately named cluster of holiday cabins in various states of disarray, located somewhere near the manger where three record company executives brought gifts to the infant Bruce Springsteen. After morning spitting, during a pleasant afternoon's walk through putrid, insect-infested swamps redolent of decaying organic material, Blurt informed me that, in addition to being a repository for several toxic products of American industry, these charming bogs area also serve as a corpse disposal area for professional mafiosi who practice/perform their art in the larger metropolitan areas to the north and southwest. A powerful and not altogether hopeless lesson exists in the possibility of professional criminals finding their audience, that is, my audience, and disposing of the audience in a manner that is consensual and within the aim of what they hope to achieve for themselves. A quotation from the day's reading, "exterminate the brutes!" from Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness, has special resonance. Later, during Percolation (in which eager, earnest young Wonkees of no skill whatsoever go into their rooms, make coffee, drink it and stay up all night talking about what a great influence I was in their lives up until the time members of the English music press began to refer to me as "spikey"), violence visited me in the form of a French whinger who complained loudly after I introduced him to a tree that "thees eez not Wonk. Eet eez plonk!" and demanded that I refund his money. Blurt made a quick telephone call and an rather large gentleman of Mediterranean distraction arrived in some haste in a black Corvette and demonstrated Peter Townshend's guitar smashing technique on the whinger's knees. A nearby lake was found, and the whinger obliged us by jumping in. He has not been heard from since. A surprise visit by Brawny Pal in an air-cooled Supremely Useless Vehicle took the heat off a day of whining dopes demanding that I teach them something. Abandoning tedium, respiratory distress and festering insect welts, Blurt and I experienced a point of fleeing as we were transported in the essence of American-made luxury to a secret laboratory where we were given a demonstration of what will be a valuable new addition to the rapidly congesting electronic devices in the Fragg rack. Deceptively disguised as a cappuccino frother, this prong-like contraption reaches innocently from what appears to be just another black box with dancing LED displays to entertain the pharmaceutically doped, until an audient employs flash photography. Then, in a series of nanoseconds, a computer digitally identifies the source of the flash and sends a scintillating shaft of Light Amplified by Stimulated Emission of Radiation at the offending flasher. The beam is of a far higher intensity that what is being used to write King Crumpet bootlegs to a CD, and it not only disables the flash but pierces the camera casing and continues onward to ultimately, if not triumphantly, vaporize the audient's eyeball and unspecified quantities of bone and brain. Blurt questioned legal consequences, but This Fragg responded with piquant delight. While such a reprisal may seem shocking to those who dwell in the basement, a musicker who seeks rejection at the very highest level can only weep for joy. After a rousing, if soporific performance of Quack in the Rhinestone Brassiere Lounge of the Lump Plaza Casino in Atlantic City, the Wonkees happily realized their basemental aim of experiencing the exploitation and naked greed of the music industry as they frolicked among the casino's slot machines. I adopted the sacred pose of the One Who Is So Far Above It All He Can Never Be Completely Certain His Shoes Are Properly Laced and wandered out to the broad, wood-plank walkway that divides the city's casinos from the turbulent surf of the Atlantic Ocean. There, with the broad and briney waves rushing in like so many fans demanding that I, who feigns his hell without repair (Oy vey, Urizel!), make them happy, I summoned from the brackish depths of my glottal stop a vast and glorious hock-tooey, and sent it hurling in a perfect arc that landed with a small but stunning splish into the gurgling waters that, so long ago, had formed the primordial froth from which life came forth, or second, or diminished third. Confident that my small qualitative, incremental act had raised the tide in London, I determined that it was time to move on. Bill Kent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:19:23 -0400 From: Johnnyroman Subject: Is this allowed?, radiohead, yada yada yada imho i think its ok! Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think one time in one of the trey gunn diaries he was ranting about how upset he was that he missed one of their concerts. do any other of the members realize how great of a band radiohead is? mike http://www.duophone.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:39:49 -0400 From: Johnnyroman Subject: i wish you were here to see it! Out of every single person who I showed KC to who either didnt get it, or just wasnt their taste, I've never once found anyone who does not like indiscipline! has anyone found any other tunes by them which you can't find a non kc fan who doesnt enjoy? wow that sentence was worded very badly... hope you know what I mean. I love the looks on drummer's faces when they hear the part where bruford does that realllllllyyyy reallly long fill that just seems to last FOREVER (around 2:21 i believe). they hang their heads and lean to one side and almost fall over by the time he's done! At this point i began to think... KC (mostly the 70s lineup) was SO GOOD at creating tension and resolving it at the perfect times (eg indiscipline, portions of starless, few parts of fracture,)... After the next listen of tcol I found that that particular element of their arranging does not exsist the way it used to. I don't mean this in the same way as those who keep blabbing about 'new kc sucks! yada yada', but what i mean is that this is something i miss... the art of creative creation and resolution of tension is what makes a good band GOOD. do you not agree? attack away mike http://www.duophone.com ps: RE: the guy talking about radiohead and then the other bands with odd times: this may be a good plug time... my band just recently finished a 3 song demo, and within the next week we'll have mp3s on our site. We're NOT a proggressive rock band, but use many of the ideas that the genre [?] has to offer... If you [or anyone] is bored sometime next week check out our song 'whither'. besides being a 'good song' it has alot of 'stupid technical things' which many of us tend to find interesting for some reason. for example, some parts the guitar's in 9/8 while drum and bass is 4/4 and theres a part later on which goes 7/8 - 6/8 - 5/8 - 4/8 - 2/8 - 2/8 but whatever.. i thought if this was the least bit relevant any time it would be now.... now i'll stop being a waste of bandwidth.. ha! http://www.duophone.com/dusk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:40:22 +0200 (MEST) From: Sidney Wiener Subject: DGM market practices Months back, the Artist Shop announced here that some old pressings of Great Deceiver boxed set had surfaced and were on sale for $52. I placed my order within days, but AS said another distributor had bought the whole lot. When I tried to locate this distributor, I was told to contact DGM (who now sells this at a higher price 60 British pounds). More recently, I announced in ET that the GD set was available for 350 Francs in Paris (about $50). Since that stock was sold out, I have never again seen any DisciplineGlobalMobile release at this store, which is one of our largest. I would hate to see that DGM, in their effort to bypass the big companies, are falling into the same unethical business practices. Specifically, if the above patterns are actually the result of price-fixing schemes, great risks are involved. One of DGMs goals is *to operate in the market place, while being free of the values of the market place*. Is one of those values free trade ? Perhaps RF should supplement his self-actualization studies by some courses in economics. There he would learn that every business has an intangible, but valuable, resource called good will. If DGM pretends to be on a noble mission, then charges predatory high prices and refuses to permit discounting of their goods, then this can lead to negative good will, eventually leading to lower sales, and in worst cases, organized boycotts. Similarly when the business claims that they are undercapitalized and requests buyers to also become investors in future products on which they promise to hold a monopoly (in a Collectors Club for example), collect the money, then suspend future production, this too can produce negative good will. Is the opposition to monopolies another value of the market place that DGM is freeing us from? Save us from our liberators. Sid ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:52:36 -0500 From: Xavier Ozouf Subject: KC to non-initiate Hello everybody, I've been quite interested in the "how to describe KC to people" comments. I'll get B. Bruford's words, which I sometime used in our purpose : "We're a HeavyMetal-Jazz band, though we're playing heavier than any jazz band and finer than any heavy- metal band". Short, and seems (to me) to fit perfectly well :) . For my own experience (I'm 24 and none of my family would listen to KC) I came to KC by a twisted way : Vangelis, to J&V, to Jon Anderson being Yes singer (probably my favourite band), to Lizard... My friends who enjoy KC usually got in it in some "smells like teen spirit"'s and student's reunions (that is : lot of sweet smokes, alcohol...) with a KC yet-initiate. So my last comment will be that to describe KC, just say : "LOOKS as insane as its auditors" ;) Xavier Boite aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 04:57:52 -0300 From: luprates Subject: Just an opinion from ETers that I want. I've got this band,which was a hard rock "Grand Funk-style" band,a trio. The bassist sounds like an average "more-soloing-than-playing -the rhythm" 70's band(I showed him the Crims,he almost passed out with Wetton),and the guitarist was very seventies,very "Angus Young". The drummer was,what can I say? A caveman would be the best way to describe his drumming--although he's not technical. I've entered,first as a singer(my singing is hard to explain;I got a "double personality singing":sometimes it's very 50's harmony vocal band like--anybody who knows Zappa and heard "Cruising with Ruben and the Jets" know what I mean. I can go from the low grumbles to the high tweezlings easily. But,my main vocal style is that heavy 70's like vocal,which by strange events now sound like a hybrid between Brian Johnson from AC/DC and Captain Beefheart--my main vocal influence is Beefheart,for all records) Things start getting weird. Then,I butt in my alto sax on a Marshall with a wah-wah,and my harmonica.(Yes,my friends,a Mel Collins' enthusiast. I know people here don't like him too much,so I'm telling you before you think of anything. Yes. Screams,squeaks,but...I'm a student yet,and my goals are "a classical degree and Eric Dolphy",if you know what I mean...) The guys actually liked! And now,I've made them accept a second guitarist. The guy is very "Steve Vai-like" in his playing,(so much he loves playing Belew's licks from "Indiscipline"). Of course both guitarists have their share of soloing--that when they don't do awesome things together. Our repertoire goes from "Gimme Shelter" from the Stones,"For Whom The Bell Tolls" from Metallica,"Willie The Pimp"(of course we would)from the late great Zappa to our own sometimes straight rockin',sometimes just weird songs(oh yeah,I'm the pain in the ass who makes the guys play in 17/8....)We're from Brazil,but,although playing anglo-saxonic music,we're always putting a little samba here,a little bossa nova there...you can figure out that the guys don't like that,but,for chrissake,we've already have some lyrics in portuguese,so why not?(We write our lyrics mainly in english--it's easier) Ah,and we don't sound like Mr. Bungle,although it's not a bad idea. With a chromatic harmonica,I've pulled out Larks' Tongues 2,and now,I have this doubt,which goes to the folks here with a pair of other questions: 1-Should we play Larks' Tongues?(I know it must be hard to imagine Part II with an harmonica,but try...) 2-What do you people think about this band? 3-Where we can go from here? I take your advice seriously,folks,so,answer me,and no joking,please. Thanks for your patience, Fernando Cesar ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:44:21 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: Re: Remastered KC Works In ET 732 Jim Clark wondered... > I emailed DGM about ordering the pending remastered versions of Starless, > Red and LTiA on Monday without reply. Presumably, my email did not qualify > as worthy of response. The date stamp on your post is Wednesday morning, so presumably patience isn't one of your big virtues... ;-) > I do wonder about the decision to make them HDCD encoded though. HDCD > encoding only works on CD players with a special HDCD chipset. Though it'll work quite happily as a standard CD. It should be noted, however, that HDCD isn't necessarily held as any great shakes even by companies that use it: for example, Naim Audio use the Pacific Microsonics chips in their (very well regarded) players because they like all the other features, especially the digital filtering, but if you have the PM chip then you have HDCD whether you really want it or not. Tellingly Naim don't bother with HDCD on their own record label, because they don't think it does anything that careful recording and mastering doesn't do better. So the decision to master with HDCD gives a potential something to a fair few people, but doesn't take away anything from anyone else. > will provide enhanced sound but will still not rival the original vinyl > pressings. Oh deary me, we're not back to *that* old tosh again are we? Analogue and digital reproduction give different sorts of faults and problems. One can argue the technicalities as long as one wants, but at the end it's more a case of you prefer the distortions inherent in one format to those inherent in the other. > Both new CD formats are backward compatible and can be played on 16bit > machines. Well, kind of, but trying out the top of the line Sony SACD, my hi-fi dealing friend was very impressed with SACD discs, but wouldn't give it house space for "old" CDs. Not the case with HDCD players he sells, which he regards as about the best available CD players, that just happen to do HDCD too. > I wonder why Mr. Fripp didn't do these recordings with SACD or DVD-A. Maybe > for the third remaster. My guess is because neither are established to any great degree. While with HDCD you've pretty much got a standard CD anyone can use happily, and at least more people than is the case with SACD and DVD-A right now can maybe get something extra from it. Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 00 10:25:04 EDT From: Ty Perry Subject: fripp's consent hello. i was thinking about something that mr. fripp said in his diary, about the bootlegtv recordings of their concerts being consentual. i'm wondering if anybody has ever asked mr. fripp directly, before a show: "hey, mr. fripp, is it okay if i record your show tonight?" that way, if he says yes then that recording would be consentual and therefore not interfere with the feeling of the show. this seems to extend to: "excuse me, mr. fripp, may i please take a picture of you during frakctured?" (instead of taking the picture w/o asking) "hey, would it bother you if i had a cigarette?" (instead of lighting up in front of him w/o asking) "hey, can i use one of your songs for my movie?" (instead of taking the song for your movie w/o asking) ty ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #734 ********************************