Elephant Talk #734 (as text)

29 September 2000

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:00:37 -0600
From: Toby Howard (ET Moderator)
Subject: NEWS: Apologies for ET delays
Folks, please accept my apologies for the sporadic appearance of ET in the
last few weeks, and especially for news and announcements which didn't make
it out in time to be useful.

There's quite a backlog of posts, and there'll be several ETs coming out
over the next few days to catch up. Then we're back to normal service.


Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:00:37 -0600
From: Jon Lybrook <jon at cgtrio dot com>
Subject: NEWS: California Guitar Trio/Tony Levin New Release available on-line!
The California Guitar Trio's new on-line store, CGT Direct, is now on-line
and offers secure ordering of CGT recordings and other
merchandise. Ordering from CGT Direct is a great way to support the
California Guitar Trio. Unlike buying from other retailers, the money from
every CGT Direct purchase goes directly to the CGT! CGT Direct also sells
some recordings you can't find elsewhere, like the new CGT Direct
Collectors' Series, Volume 1 - Monday Night in San Francisco, featuring
Tony Levin, recorded May 1, 2000 at the Great American Music Hall in San
Francisco. Hear RealAudio tracks from the new DOUBLE CD on the CGT's
Discography page: http://www.cgtrio.com/discmnsf.htm

The CGT Direct Collectors' Series is an experimental project to release one
or two roughly mastered recordings per tour in an attempt to satisfy the
seemingly consistent demand for live CGT material and to give fans the
opportunity to help support the band. The recordings are all made on the
CGT's own, high-quality ADAT equipment with which they record all their
shows. Help Paul, Bert, and Hideyo keep tape in the machine! Order your
copy of CGT Direct Collectors' Series, Volume 1 - Monday Night in San
Francisco from CGT Direct by going to: http://www.cgtrio.com/cgtdirect.htm

Jon Lybrook
CGT Webmaster/
CGT Direct

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:05:52 -0400
From: Gary Davis <artshop at artist-shop dot com>
Subject: NEWS: KC remasters and other releases
Hi, folks:

The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety
at <http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm>.  Here are some excerpts for
Crimson fans:

Let's start with the latest on the next round of King Crimson remasters
which you'll find on our Discipline page <http://www.artist-shop.com/discipln>
King Crimson/Lark's Tongue in Aspic
King Crimson/Starless and Bible Black
King Crimson/Red
Of course you all know about these impending remasters.  I just got word
this week, though, that their release has been pushed back from October 3,
to October 17.  I know that's disappointing as we're all quite anxious for
these.  But fortunately it's only two extra weeks which isn't as bad as it
could be.

Available now on our DGM <http://www.artist-shop.com/discipln> and Rykodisc
<http://www.artist-shop.com/rykodisc> pages
Fayman & Fripp/A Temple in the Clouds
Recorded live from a past life, A Temple in the Clouds invokes a voyage on
an ancient mariner vessel bound for what might be the Earth's end.  Strange
mists rise as we slowly drift upon the encompassing sparkling seas where
sacred primordial ritual meets modern amplified sound.  Awash in the looping
structures of Robert Fripp's guitar soundscapes, Jeffrey Fayman adds an
opulent cinematic brilliance to the proceedings, creating an intense and
dramatic vision of a future rich in the heritage of Fripp's past.  Recored
live from a past life.  Nine years in the making, A Temple in the Clouds is
a unique collaboration between one of rock's most important and influential
guitarists and a contemporary cinematic composer.  Fripp's contribution of
two hours worth of treated guitar work (his trademark "Frippertronics")
formed the basis for Fayman's layering of interwoven electronic soundscapes.
Focusing on the subtleties and slight shifts in overtones and harmonics,
Fayman and Fripp have created a dynamic musical kaleidoscope, every changing
and instrinsically radiant in each sonic fractal.  This album, released on
the Projekt label, is very reminiscent of Fripp's early work with Brian Eno
- No Pussyfooting and Evening Star.
soundbite <http://www.artist-shop.com/rykodisc/temple.ram>

New releases from Voiceprint and associated labels
Keith Tippett with Mujician and the Georgian Ensemble/The Bristol Concert
For over twenty years Keith Tippett has been at the forefront of
contemporary European jazz and new music.  Keith has been a solo pianist,
composer, bandleader, band member and musical educator.  Mujician is Keith
Tippett's most successful improvising group, joined for this project by
Julie Tippetts, formerly known as Julie Driscoll.  This recording took place
at St. Georges, Brandon Hill, Bristol on June 1st 1991, as part of The Bath
International Music Festival.  The Georgian Ensemble are eleven musicians,
who feature, trumpets, saxophones, guitars and vocals.   Featured here are
selected pieces which Keith had written over the previous 15 years.  They
are compositions that would give the ensemble enough structure to feel
secure in, but enough freedom to fly away from if the spirit desired.
soundbite - <http://www.artist-shop.com/voiceprt/bristol.ram>

Gordon Haskell/All In The Scheme Of Things
Gordon Haskell was a member of cult Mod band Fleur De Lys in the sixties and
then went on to replace Greg Lake in King Crimson. There followed two
classic albums 'In The Wake Of Poseidon' and 'Lizards.' He also worked with
Alvin Lee, Cliff Richard, Tim Hardin and Van Morrison.  This is a new studio
album, recorded in 1999.  Robbie McIntosh (McCartney, The Pretenders) is
among the featured musicians.  All In The Scheme Of Things is a laid back
collection of songs highlighting Gordon's deep soulful rich voice, which
bears comparisons with Dire Straits, JJ Cale, John Martyn and Chris Rea.
soundbite - <http://www.artist-shop.com/voiceprt/scheme.ram>

And I should mention this release from ET contributor Tim Bowness!
Tim Bowness and Samuel Smiles/The Way We Used To Live
This is a direct to CD recording of a performance at The Cambridge Folk Club
on the evening of December 3rd 1999.  What you get is what actually
happened, there really are " no overdubs ".  After hearing it back for the
first time, the band hastily scrawled into their respective notebooks, 'some
magic,some fluffs'.   The band are influenced by the timeless sensuous late
night ambience and doomy atmospherics of John Martyn, Arab Strap, Blue Nile,
Nick Drake, Mark Eitzel and Leonard Cohen.  In fact two Nick Drake covers
are featured in this set, 'Fly' and 'Black Eyed Dog', as well as four cuts
from last year's debut album ' World Of Bright Futures '.

King Crimson tour dates for Japan and the US are now available!  As I
believe they've already been posted here, I won't take up the space to
repeat them.  However, if any of you didn't catch those dates, I have them
posted at <http://www.artist-shop.com/discipln> along with the remainder of
the California Guitar Trio's tour schedule.


                          Gary Davis
The Artist Shop                              The Other Road
http://www.artist-shop.com          artshop at artist-shop dot com
phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056	   fax:330-945-4923
     Artist Shop Radio <http://www.artist-shop.com/radio>
       Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 02:52:55 -0400
From: Kathryn Ottersten <ottkat at bellatlantic dot net>
Subject: GIG BIZ: Crimso Date added in San Diego
Hi Crimpersons,

A King Crimson show has been added to the US Tour.  There will be a show
on October 25 in San Diego, CA, at 4th & B.  Tickets are already on sale
at Ticketmaster (I checked).

I want to thank Bruce Davis for spotting an ad for the show in his local
paper and sending me the heads up.  Thanks Bruce.

Kathy Ottersten

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 02:59:34 -0400
From: Kathryn Ottersten <ottkat at bellatlantic dot net>
Subject: GIG BIZ: T-Levin to be at benefit
Hi Crimpersons,

Just in case you have not checked Tony Levin's road diary in a while, he
has added a date for Sept. 28 to be part of a benefit show in Woodstock,
NY, at the Bearsville Theater.  He will be appearing with with
vibraphonist Mike Mainieri.

Kathy Ottersten

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:02:42 -0400
From: Michael McGrath <mei at nyc dot rr dot com>
Subject: new survey
So, now we're having a survey about rudeness. Who is more rude: an
audience member who disobeys the rules and is escorted out of the venue,
or the band member who decides, because of this, all other admission
paying concert-goers (who don't even know that person) aren't deserving
to hear that cut (to quote RF: "I don't play FraKctured at photo
sessions"), or aren't worthy of his presence?  How about this survey: Do
the audience deserve to have their admission price refunded when these
things happen? Is a survey really necessary? I am lucky enough to live
in NYC and will be at The Atrium at the WFC (as I have many times
before) and at Town Hall in November. If anyone decides to walk out, it
may be me finally. It is starting to sound risky to see RF. I sent a
post on this after reading that RF quote in his diary, but it was
apparently flagged. Hopefully this one won't be. That would be unfair:
to have a survey but flag input on the topic.

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:39:04 -0400
From: neil at extech dot com (Neil Lore)
Subject: Greg Lake
Why does Crimson run ads using Lake's voice when Greg's been out of the
group for 300 years??

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:20:08 -0500
From: Jeff and/or Cynthia <jeffmon at rollanet dot org>
Subject: TCOL in Playboy
A micro-review in the October 2000 US issue, text follows:

"Over three decades with King Crimson, Robert Fripp has inspired bands as
diverse as Metallica and Phish with his heavy-metal thunder, jazz timing,
and avant-classical themes.  The ConstruKction of Light (Virgin) is
arguably Crimson's hardest-rocking effort ever.  The tricky time signatures
remain, but Fripp and co-guitarist Adrian Belew let it rip on searing
instrumentals.  Fripp's laserlike solos can shift from terrifyingly ominous
to cosmically serene and back again in the space of one song.  --Vic

Even though you read it here, go buy the issue anyway.  Show 'em you care.

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:12:33 -0700
From: Marc J Goodman <good1 at pacbell dot net>
Subject: Fripp-Fayman on Hearts of Space
Hi All,

Just a momentary delurk.

Hearts of Space, an excellent hour of radio which we are blessed with
here in LA on Sunday nights at approximately 10:30 on one of the public
stations will air a brief excerpt from A TEMPLE IN THE CLOUDS in a mix
of music described in their email listing as "Electronic images of
paradise" which I receive weekly via their website "www.hos.com".  The
shows are available in streaming audio as well as in various markets
here in the USA.  For more info please go to the site, as I am not
affiliated in any way other than as a frequent listener and admirer of
the mixes they present every week on the radio here.  Also on this
particular evening, I'm looking forward to several cuts by Michael
Stearns, an incredible composer and soundscapist in his own right, who I
highly recommend you all check out if you're not familiar with him.  A
websearch will probably turn up some info on him.  Again, this is not a
commercial.  Some Klaus Schulze music will be on this program right
before FAYMAN AND FRIPP, as well.

I hope this makes it into a newsletter in time for some of you to
investigate and find this great show, as it will probably sound better
on the radio than on the web.  I may be mistaken, though.

The title of the show is PGM 572: "SHORES OF HEAVEN".

Now, I hope I remember to tune in, myself.....

Marc J Goodman

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:37:08 -0400
From: "Ressel, David Lee" <DavidLee dot Ressel at viacom dot com>
Subject: Copy King Crimson DVD on sale
FYI: there is a copy of the King Crimson DVD for sale for $18 in the Video
Store (Blowout Video?) on the Ground Floor of my office Building (1515
Broadway) in the heart of NYC's Times Square.  I've already purchased one
(at full price!) and recomend it to all (even if you don't have a DVD

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 22:48:50 GMT
From: "Matt D" <dibes at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Trey Gunn Band live
What a great show this was.  I was thrilled to finally see these guys live.
I was most looking forward to see Bob Muller play.  I love the way he
combined hand drumming and drumset.  At times playing Tabla with one and and
set with the other.  I recommend seeing these guys if you have a chance you
won't be disappointed.  The show seemed to go very quickly, but in reality
it was quite long. I got so into the music i didn't realize that they played
for nearly an hour and a half.  After the show I had the oppurtunity to meet
Trey.  I asked him about the strange device he held on his strings during
the first song of the set.  He told me that it was a mini amp (the kind that
looks like a pack of cigarettes).  I am not quite sure what it did but you
can hear it on the new album (during track 6 i think).

Anyone have any info about Bob Muller? A website?  Who has he played with in
the past?  I am really curious about him.

My band (who kind of has a Crimson Influence) has MP3's for download.  The
main instrument is an electric banjo. Sound strange?  Check out this tracks
(especially Electric Sandwich) and hear this guy play the banjo in a way i
never heard before.  Fripp like in a way.

The site is


Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 10:03:13 EDT
From: CHMoller at aol dot com
Subject: something about the guestbook & diaries
well, reading the latest fripp's comments to the guestbook, some things came
to my mind:

what it seems is that when a fan buy a CD or a ticket, one take for granted

- the music will be the one expected
- the artist has to sign an autograph
- hey, i can take pictures, why not ?

1- first as a listener, then as a fan, it really doesn't matter if:

a- fripp doesn't like photos at all.
b- fripp doesn't sign autographs (i have one, and paid for that. that was MY
choice !)
c- fripp stop doing shows at all.
d- the new kc is better or worse than the other incarnations. they're all
different in spirit... and you'll have to listen with a differentiated spirit
too !

2- to me, it really matters:

a- fripp continues playing. studio or live. my other prefferred band, XTC,
stopped playing live in 1982 !
b- kc continues its existence. no matter who is in it, as long as its spirit
is there.
c- if there's still good music. and i'm not saying "frakctured" is worse than
"fracture" here. the good music always lead you to a higher shift, a new
challenge. you'll have to listen with virgin ears.

fripp is a common person as any of us, with all the good and bad things we
all have. just try to walk in his shoes, i'm sure you won't like it at all.
i was reading some Eminem lyrics (hey, it's music, another kind , but music)
and found these verses which, i think, apply:

"...But at least have the decency in you
to leave me alone when you freaks see me out
in the streets when i'm eating or feeding my daughter
to not come and speak to me.
I don't know you and, no i don't owe you
a motherfucking thing....
And i'm thankful for every fan that i get
but i can't take a shit in the bathroom
without someone standing by it....
you knew i won't sign your autograph
you can call me an asshole. i'm glad..."

well, that's it ! i expect nothing but music, 'cause music is all that
matters !!


carlos h moller

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 11:08:28 -0400
From: "melvin zirkes" <beth-el-sonj at worldnet dot att dot net>
Subject: Hands Quicker than the eye
Several months back, I recall reading a post that commented on Jamie Muir
playing a drum kit and assorted percussion instruments simultaneously.  It
seems to be a rare, rather sought after talent.  Anyone interested in direct
observance of such a feat should check out jazz drummer, Jim Black.  I've
seen him a couple of times, and highly recommend his work with Pachora.  His
performance last night was incredible.  He'd be banging away with the drum
sticks, I'd blink, and all of a sudden he's got a brush in one hand and
moraccas in the other.  Then I don't even blink, and he's lost the moraccas
and has a string of bells.  He's truly a show by himself.


Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 18:34:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven Sullivan <sullivan at gwis2 dot circ dot gwu dot edu>
Subject: HDCD and SACD
> Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:33:17 +0200
> From: "Jim Clark" <airbav at xs4all dot nl>
> Subject: Remastered KC Works and Situation Dangerous
> I emailed DGM about ordering the pending remastered versions of Starless,
> Red and LTiA on Monday without reply.  Presumably, my email did not qualify
> as worthy of response.

Or, the public notice of the remasters was about to be released, and they
hope dyou'd see that instead.  I got it via email (though I'd already
pre-orderded via The Artist's Shop a week or two before that).

> I will buy these remasters, since I have only the original EG Records CD
> versions that were not handled and approved by Fripp.  These new 24bit
> versions should be quite a sonic improvement.  I do wonder about the
> decision to make them HDCD encoded though.  HDCD encoding only works on CD
> players with a special HDCD chipset.  This chipset will provide enhanced
> sound but will still not rival the original vinyl pressings.

Sez you. Actually they're almost certain to be more accurate reproductions
of the *master tape* than any of the vinyl pressings, since mastering for
vinyl, and vinyl playback, introduces several sorts of deviations from

> HDCD has been
> around for several years but still doesn't have many adherents. Only about
> 12-15 CD manufacturers use these chips in their boxes.  On the other hand
> Super Audio CD (SACD) and DVD-Audio (DVD-A) are two new CD
> recording/manufacturing techniques that purportedly surpass vinyl in
> recreating music.

HDCD is back-compatible; you can play your HDCDs on a non-HDCD player. You
the few 'extra bits' that HDCD claims to squeeze from the digital transfer
process.  IMO most of the benefit actually comes from careful mastering
and choice of source tape, rather than from HDCD encoding itself.

> SACD has been available for about eight months and DVD-A players are just
> becoming available.  Sony and Philips are the creators of SACD.

Unlike HDCD, which is really just a sort of tweak on standard digital
recording  -- as is '24-bit' dithered down to 16 --  SACD is a whole
'nother type of digital transfer.

> nice to have one player (DVD-A) that does movies and music equally well but
> SACD has garnered the better music reviews so far.  Both new CD formats are
> backward compatible and can be played on 16bit machines.

?? AFAIK SACD is *not* backwards-compatible.

Also AFAIK there have been no well-controlled comparisons of SACD vs DVD
vs CD players (or formats). By well-controlled, I mean that that *only*
variable is the format, and the test is performed double-blind. Until then
I'm inclined to believe that improvements noted for SACD once again
reflect differences in care taken in mastering, not the format per se.

> I wonder why Mr. Fripp didn't do these recordings with SACD or DVD-A.  Maybe
> for the third remaster.

For on thing, SACDs (and SACD players) currently cost a bundle.

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:56:41 +1100
From: "STUDER, Andrew" <ajs at ansto dot gov dot au>
Subject: What is a real drum sound anyway?
It's interesting how the whole "v-drums" thing is such an enduring
thread in E.T., and another mention of it in the last issue caused
me to ponder a comment of Frank Zappa's I read somewhere. He pointed
out that the standard "rock drum sound" is a completely unrealistic
representation of the instrument's natural sound: close miking
each part of the kit, using different mikes on different drums etc.
Now for sure it sounds great, but does it sound "natural?" And,
the question that interests me, how much of a drummer's way of
playing is dictated by "the drum sound".

The two things I like about the drum sound on TCoL are
(1) I think they sound really cool (ok, that's just my opinion)
(2) I think that Mastellotto has put a lot of time and effort
into - and succeeded in - working out how to play them. To me
it sounds like he's been able to experiment with, and modify,
his approach to the kit to get the most out of the opportunity
that electronic drums give him. I particularly like the way he
seems to muck around with filtering effects - given that
analog filter sweeps are such a cliche these days, I feel that
his ability to make filter effects sound fresh is a real


Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:55:33 -0500
From: "Aaron P Deglanville" <"aaron_deglanville"@uhc.com>
Subject: three (shows) of a perfect pair
It is with sad regret that I offer up my KC Fillmore (San Francisco) tix for
sale: Thurs & Fri nights, $36 each.

I'm still going Saturday night, and very much looking forward to it.

I am, however, irked by having only just recently discovered that KC will
be playing more or less identical sets all three nights (please spare me an
explanation of how every KC show is unique in its own special way).  I
would have felt flat-out ripped off if I had discoved this after attending
all three shows--not that I wouldn't have enjoyed the shows, but because it
seems to me that the prospective audience is entitled to some kind of
warning or disclaimer before dropping over $100 to see the same show three
nights in a row.  I know that some of you feel that this is a fully
worthwhile investment, which I can respect.  I'm just wondering if many
enthusiastic multiple ticketholders are going to feel duped when they go in
expecting different sets.  Isn't this the usual expectation of a band
playing consecutive nights at the same venue?

I'm writing not only to inform ET readers who might not have known
otherwise, but also to welcome divergent points of view.  If my reasoning
or assumptions seem flawed, I am most open to hearing it.

 (While this invitation certainly extends to Fripp, I hope he will save
himself the trouble of a bombastic, condescending reply that reiterates his
wildly incorrect assertion that a purchased ticket entitles me to nothing
more than admittance to the venue [see DGM diary], expresses his disdain
for me personally, and exhorts me to have no further contact with his
artistic output.  Anything else is quite welcome.)

As a perhaps unwelcome sidebar to this topic, I have to wonder aloud anew
why KC2K is restricting themselves to such a tiny slice of their (huge,
rich) potential repertoire.  Why, why, WHY, if they can't even put together
enough material for three different shows???  Has Fripp already answered
this one elsewhere?  Help me out here, folks.  I'm baffled.  It almost
seems tragic to me.

Still loving TCoL,


Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:41:48 EDT
From: Bknt at aol dot com
Subject: Norbert Fragg Moves On
Guitar Wonk continues in New Jersey, at Mount Misery, an appropriately named
cluster of holiday cabins in various states of disarray, located somewhere
near the manger where three record company executives brought gifts to the
infant Bruce Springsteen.  After morning spitting, during a pleasant
afternoon's walk through putrid, insect-infested swamps redolent of decaying
organic material, Blurt informed me that, in addition to being a repository
for several toxic products of American industry, these charming bogs area
also serve as a corpse disposal area for professional mafiosi who
practice/perform their art in the larger metropolitan areas to the north and
southwest. A powerful and not altogether hopeless lesson exists in the
possibility of professional criminals finding their audience, that is, my
audience, and disposing of the audience in a manner that is consensual and
within the aim of what they hope to achieve for themselves. A quotation from
the day's reading, "exterminate the brutes!" from Joseph Conrad's Heart of
Darkness, has special resonance.

Later, during Percolation (in which eager, earnest young Wonkees of no skill
whatsoever go into their rooms, make coffee, drink it and stay up all night
talking about what a great influence I was in their lives up until the time
members of the English music press began to refer to me as "spikey"),
violence visited me in the form of a French whinger who complained loudly
after I introduced him to a tree that "thees eez not Wonk. Eet eez plonk!"
and demanded that I refund his money. Blurt made a quick telephone call and
an rather large gentleman of Mediterranean distraction arrived in some haste
in a black Corvette and demonstrated Peter Townshend's guitar smashing
technique on the whinger's knees. A nearby lake was found, and the whinger
obliged us by jumping in. He has not been heard from since.

A surprise visit by Brawny Pal in an air-cooled Supremely Useless Vehicle
took the heat off a day of whining dopes demanding that I teach them
something. Abandoning tedium, respiratory distress and festering insect
welts, Blurt and I experienced a point of fleeing as we were transported in
the essence of American-made luxury to a secret laboratory where we were
given a demonstration of what will be a valuable new addition to the rapidly
congesting electronic devices in the Fragg rack. Deceptively disguised as a
cappuccino frother, this prong-like contraption reaches innocently from what
appears to be just another black box with dancing LED displays to entertain
the pharmaceutically doped, until an audient employs flash photography. Then,
in a series of nanoseconds, a computer digitally identifies the source of the
flash and sends a scintillating shaft of Light Amplified by Stimulated
Emission of Radiation at the offending flasher. The beam is of a far higher
intensity that what is being used to write King Crumpet bootlegs to a CD, and
it not only disables the flash but pierces the camera casing and continues
onward to ultimately, if not triumphantly, vaporize the audient's eyeball and
unspecified quantities of bone and brain. Blurt questioned legal
consequences, but This Fragg responded with piquant delight. While such a
reprisal may seem shocking to those who dwell in the basement, a musicker who
seeks rejection at the very highest level can only weep for joy.

After a rousing, if soporific performance of Quack in the Rhinestone
Brassiere Lounge of the Lump Plaza Casino in Atlantic City, the Wonkees
happily realized their basemental aim of experiencing the exploitation and
naked greed of the music industry as they frolicked among the casino's slot
machines. I adopted the sacred pose of the One Who Is So Far Above It All He
Can Never Be Completely Certain His Shoes Are Properly Laced and wandered out
to the broad, wood-plank walkway that divides the city's casinos from the
turbulent surf of the Atlantic Ocean. There, with the broad and briney waves
rushing in like so many fans demanding that I, who feigns his hell without
repair (Oy vey, Urizel!), make them happy, I summoned from the brackish
depths of my glottal stop a vast and glorious hock-tooey, and sent it hurling
in a perfect arc that landed with a small but stunning splish into the
gurgling waters that, so long ago, had formed the primordial froth from which
life came forth, or second, or diminished third.

Confident that my small qualitative, incremental act had raised the tide in
London, I determined that it was time to move on.

Bill Kent

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:19:23 -0400
From: Johnnyroman <johnnyroman at flashmail dot com>
Subject: Is this allowed?, radiohead, yada yada yada
imho i think its ok!  Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think one time in one
of the trey gunn diaries he was ranting about how upset he was that he
missed one of their concerts.  do any other of the members realize how
great of a band radiohead is?


Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:39:49 -0400
From: Johnnyroman <johnnyroman at flashmail dot com>
Subject: i wish you were here to see it!
Out of every single person who I showed KC to who either didnt get it, or
just wasnt their taste, I've never once found anyone who does not like

has anyone found any other tunes by them which you can't find a non kc fan
who doesnt enjoy?

wow that sentence was worded very badly... hope you know what I mean.  I
love the looks on drummer's faces when they hear the part where bruford
does that realllllllyyyy reallly long fill that just seems to last FOREVER
(around 2:21 i believe).  they hang their heads and lean to one side and
almost fall over by the time he's done!  At this point i began to
think... KC (mostly the 70s lineup) was SO GOOD at creating tension and
resolving it at the perfect times (eg indiscipline, portions of starless,
few parts of fracture,)...  After the next listen of tcol I found that that
particular element of their arranging does not exsist the way it used to.
I don't mean this in the same way as those who keep blabbing about 'new kc
sucks! yada yada', but what i mean is that this is something i miss... the
art of creative creation and resolution of tension is what makes a good
band GOOD.  do you not agree?

attack away


ps: RE: the guy talking about radiohead and then the other bands with odd
times: this may be a good plug time... my band just recently finished a 3
song demo, and within the next week we'll have mp3s on our site.  We're NOT
a proggressive rock band, but use many of the ideas that the genre [?] has
to offer... If you [or anyone] is bored sometime next week check out our
song 'whither'.  besides being a 'good song' it has alot of 'stupid
technical things' which many of us tend to find interesting for some
reason.  for example, some parts the guitar's in 9/8 while drum and bass is
4/4 and theres a part later on which goes 7/8 - 6/8 - 5/8 - 4/8 - 2/8 - 2/8
but whatever.. i thought if this was the least bit relevant any time it
would be now.... now i'll stop being a waste of bandwidth.. ha!


Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:40:22 +0200 (MEST)
From: Sidney Wiener <swiener at free dot fr>
Subject: DGM market practices
Months back, the Artist Shop announced here that some old pressings of
Great Deceiver boxed set had surfaced and were on sale for $52. I placed my
order within days, but AS said another distributor had bought the whole
lot. When I tried to locate this distributor, I was told to contact DGM
(who now sells this at a higher price 60 British pounds).

More recently, I announced in ET that the GD set was available for 350
Francs in Paris (about $50). Since that stock was sold out, I have never
again seen any DisciplineGlobalMobile release at this store, which is one
of our largest.  I would hate to see that DGM, in their effort to bypass
the big companies, are falling into the same unethical business
practices. Specifically, if the above patterns are actually the result of
price-fixing schemes, great risks are involved.  One of DGMs goals is *to
operate in the market place, while being free of the values of the market
place*. Is one of those values free trade ?

Perhaps RF should supplement his self-actualization studies by some
courses in economics. There he would learn that every business has an
intangible, but valuable, resource called good will. If DGM pretends to be
on a noble mission, then charges predatory high prices and refuses to
permit discounting of their goods, then this can lead to negative good
will, eventually leading to lower sales, and in worst cases, organized
boycotts.  Similarly when the business claims that they are
undercapitalized and requests buyers to also become investors in future
products on which they promise to hold a monopoly (in a Collectors Club for
example), collect the money, then suspend future production, this too can
produce negative good will.  Is the opposition to monopolies another value
of the market place that DGM is freeing us from?  Save us from our
liberators.  Sid

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:52:36 -0500
From: Xavier Ozouf <ozouf dot xavier at caramail dot com>
Subject: KC to non-initiate
Hello everybody,

I've been quite interested in the "how to describe KC to
people" comments.

I'll get B. Bruford's words, which I sometime used in our purpose : "We're
a HeavyMetal-Jazz band, though we're playing heavier than any jazz band and
finer than any heavy- metal band". Short, and seems (to me) to fit
perfectly well :) .

For my own experience (I'm 24 and none of my family would listen to KC) I
came to KC by a twisted way : Vangelis, to J&V, to Jon Anderson being Yes
singer (probably my favourite band), to Lizard...  My friends who enjoy KC
usually got in it in some "smells like teen spirit"'s and student's
reunions (that is : lot of sweet smokes, alcohol...) with a KC
yet-initiate.  So my last comment will be that to describe KC, just say :
"LOOKS as insane as its auditors" ;)

Boite aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 04:57:52 -0300
From: luprates <luprates at zaz dot com dot br>
Subject: Just an opinion from ETers that I want.
I've got this band,which was a hard rock "Grand Funk-style" band,a trio.
The bassist sounds like an average "more-soloing-than-playing -the
rhythm" 70's band(I showed him the Crims,he almost passed out with
Wetton),and the guitarist was very seventies,very "Angus Young". The
drummer was,what can I say? A caveman would be the best way to describe
his drumming--although he's not technical. I've entered,first as a
singer(my singing is hard to explain;I got a "double personality
singing":sometimes it's very 50's harmony vocal band like--anybody who
knows Zappa and heard "Cruising with Ruben and the Jets" know what I
mean. I can go from the low grumbles to the high tweezlings easily.
But,my main vocal style is that heavy 70's like vocal,which by strange
events now sound like a hybrid between Brian Johnson from AC/DC and
Captain Beefheart--my main vocal influence is Beefheart,for all records)
Things start getting weird. Then,I butt in my alto sax on a Marshall
with a wah-wah,and my harmonica.(Yes,my friends,a Mel Collins'
enthusiast. I know people here don't like him too much,so I'm telling
you before you think of anything. Yes. Screams,squeaks,but...I'm a
student yet,and my goals are "a classical degree and Eric Dolphy",if you
know what I mean...)  The guys actually liked! And now,I've made them
accept a second guitarist. The guy is very "Steve Vai-like" in his
playing,(so much he loves playing Belew's licks from "Indiscipline"). Of
course both guitarists have their share of soloing--that when they don't
do awesome things together.

Our repertoire goes from "Gimme Shelter" from the Stones,"For Whom The
Bell Tolls" from Metallica,"Willie The Pimp"(of course we would)from the
late great Zappa to our own sometimes straight rockin',sometimes just
weird songs(oh yeah,I'm the pain in the ass who makes the guys play in
17/8....)We're from Brazil,but,although playing anglo-saxonic
music,we're always putting a little samba here,a little bossa nova
there...you can figure out that the guys don't like that,but,for
chrissake,we've already have some lyrics in portuguese,so why not?(We
write our lyrics mainly in english--it's easier)

Ah,and we don't sound like Mr. Bungle,although it's not a bad idea.

With a chromatic harmonica,I've pulled out Larks' Tongues 2,and now,I
have this doubt,which goes to the folks here with a pair of other
1-Should we play Larks' Tongues?(I know it must be hard to imagine Part
II with an harmonica,but try...)
2-What do you people think about this band?
3-Where we can go from here?

I take your advice seriously,folks,so,answer me,and no joking,please.

Thanks for your patience,
Fernando Cesar

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:44:21 +0100
From: Peter Clinch <p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk>
Subject: Re: Remastered KC Works
In ET 732 Jim Clark wondered...

> I emailed DGM about ordering the pending remastered versions of Starless,
> Red and LTiA on Monday without reply.  Presumably, my email did not qualify
> as worthy of response.

The date stamp on your post is Wednesday morning, so presumably patience
isn't one of your big virtues... ;-)

> I do wonder about the decision to make them HDCD encoded though.  HDCD
> encoding only works on CD players with a special HDCD chipset.

Though it'll work quite happily as a standard CD.  It should be noted,
however, that HDCD isn't necessarily held as any great shakes even by
companies that use it: for example, Naim Audio use the Pacific
Microsonics chips in their (very well regarded) players because they
like all the other features, especially the digital filtering, but if
you have the PM chip then you have HDCD whether you really want it or
not.  Tellingly Naim don't bother with HDCD on their own record label,
because they don't think it does anything that careful recording and
mastering doesn't do better.  So the decision to master with HDCD gives
a potential something to a fair few people, but doesn't take away
anything from anyone else.

> will provide enhanced sound but will still not rival the original vinyl
> pressings.

Oh deary me, we're not back to *that* old tosh again are we?  Analogue
and digital reproduction give different sorts of faults and problems.
One can argue the technicalities as long as one wants, but at the end
it's more a case of you prefer the distortions inherent in one format to
those inherent in the other.

> Both new CD formats are backward compatible and can be played on 16bit
> machines.

Well, kind of, but trying out the top of the line Sony SACD, my hi-fi
dealing friend was very impressed with SACD discs, but wouldn't give it
house space for "old" CDs.  Not the case with HDCD players he sells,
which he regards as about the best available CD players, that just
happen to do HDCD too.

> I wonder why Mr. Fripp didn't do these recordings with SACD or DVD-A.  Maybe
> for the third remaster.

My guess is because neither are established to any great degree.  While
with HDCD you've pretty much got a standard CD anyone can use happily,
and at least more people than is the case with SACD and DVD-A right now
can maybe get something extra from it.

Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 18 Sep 00 10:25:04 EDT
From: Ty Perry <ep2m at netscape dot net>
Subject: fripp's consent
hello. i was thinking about something that mr. fripp said in his diary, about
the bootlegtv recordings of their concerts being consentual. i'm wondering if
anybody has ever asked mr. fripp directly, before a show: "hey, mr. fripp, is
it okay if i record your show tonight?" that way, if he says yes then that
recording would be consentual and therefore not interfere with the feeling of
the show. this seems to extend to:

"excuse me, mr. fripp, may i please take a picture of you during frakctured?"
(instead of taking the picture w/o asking)

"hey, would it bother you if i had a cigarette?" (instead of lighting up in
front of him w/o asking)

"hey, can i use one of your songs for my movie?" (instead of taking the song
for your movie w/o asking)


Mike Stok