Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #732 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 732 Saturday, 16 September 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: November Soundscapes in NYC GIG BIZ: world crim audients connection page Is this allowed? + Odd current timers Tour List KC and their solo/collaboration works Fayman & Fripp - Big Time Flop Is TCOL Crimson? Remastered KC Works and Situation Dangerous AGE OF KING CRIMSON KC and the sunshine banned Oh, they're just Beatle wannabes! Tony Levin having fun PIERRE-EMILE/ALICE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT Exposure in Vinyl What is King Crimson? Shall a rose, by any other name, smell as sweet? Crimson/DGM in music stores S/F LD for trade KC to the uninitiated ProjeKcts do rule ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 02:51:00 -0400 From: Kathryn Ottersten Subject: NEWS: November Soundscapes in NYC Hi Crimpersons, Even though I expect that most ET readers obsessively check the Krim-News site many times a day (I do - why not everyone else?), and have already seen my news-post there, some of you may not, so here goes. Robert Fripp's Soundscape dates for November have been posted on the website of the World Financial Center (). On Nov. 28, 29, and 30th he will be performing at 12:15 & 6:30. These shows are sponsored by WNYC's New Sounds Live, and portions will be broadcast, though that date has not been released. The shows are in the WFC Winter Garden, and are unticketed and free. As I have said before, the performances there two years ago are among my favorite Crim-related shows, and I highly recommend these to everyone who is able to get here to see them. The Winter Garden is a wonderful space for this music. As a Manhattanite, though, I would like to warn anyone coming in from out of town to avoid driving in for the shows. Late November is the beginning of the Christmas shopping season, and the city is just a mass of gridlock. Better to use public transport (and who doesn't love our subway anyhow?), particularly since the WFC is very accessible from both the PATH-trains from New Jersey and the subway. And something that I have never seen noted here in ET (I don't think I ever posted this, though I have mentioned it to many friends): WNYC is located on the web at . On their New Sounds pages, they have a month-by-month Real Audio archive of shows from the past year. On their January page is archived a show with a short interview with RF and a rebroadcast of a twenty-two minute section of one Soundscape from the performances two years ago. On the disks that RF has released the Soundscapes have been changed and reworked for the cd format, and from what I know this is the only non-bootleg performance available of a raw Soundscape. Just browse around if you have the time, because there is always a lot of music of interest to Crim/Fripp/DGM fans (another specific show of interest to ETers may be the Europa String Choir show from last Nov. 15 where they played live in the WNYC studios). Kathy Ottersten ET Gigmistress ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 22:08:15 -0400 From: Dave & Racquel Subject: GIG BIZ: world crim audients connection page Hey gang... Seeing how tour dates have been announced for the US, I thought I'd drop a reminder... http://www.midnightmecca.com/vbpro/crimso/index.html is still up and running, awaiting Crim-posts from/for Crimsos going to shows (US and world-wide) that want to find others needing or having spare tix/hotel space to swap/sell/share. Drop in! Thanx Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 18:43:44 CEST From: "Marcus Enochsson" Subject: Is this allowed? + Odd current timers I found a promo CD copy of "Schizoid man [sic?]" yesterday. As it only contains a 4.44 edit of 21CSM, and I'm not the most frantic of completists, I'm offering it for trade. The CD is in near perfect shape, except for some dust. The cardboard sleeve is also in very good shape, though there's some dirt on the back side, that I think could be wiped off with a cloth. On the back there's a sticker from Virgin, stating the release date "24 JUN 1996". I'd like to trade this for something Eno and/or Fripp related. Please send me a suggestion if interested. BTW, I live in Sweden, if you're wondering about shipping rates... And one other thing. The always interesting band Radiohead will release their new album "Kid A" in one month. They're already touring with it, and as a band with the opposite booting strategy of KC (this is no critique, just a statement), the concerts are already available on sites linked from their own official one. In case Toby allows me to do so, I'd like to recommend the album. From what the live tracks can tell, Kid A will be more experimental, exciting and progressive than the last masterpiece OK Computer. As a guy obsessed with odd time sigs, I find it great to hear a few songs in 5/4 meters, that have the possibility to reach quite a wide audience. Besides the non-doubtedly progressive bands, such as old classic acts as Yes, Camel or King Crimson (sorry KC, I count you in, though you possess many qualities that vastly distinguishes you from most, if not every other prog. band) and new-wave proggers, like Flower Kings, Spock's Beard, Marillion and Dream Theater, what current bands have the habit to (more than just once, as a "lucky strike") incorporate odd time sigs in their songs? I can come to think of Radiohead and Kula Shaker. Heavily influenced by Pink Floyd and other 70s acts, yes, but still not usually pigeon holed into the prog genre. Perhaps Mercury Rev or Mr. Bungle? I'd like to know of more current odd time sigs bands, and as mainstream as possible... Yours, Marcus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 09:00:18 -0400 From: "Joseph" Subject: Tour List I am intrested in buying the Conigliano and/or Offenbach shows from Boot TV. Tried in the archives to find a set list. Does any one know either shows list. Email me . Thanks Joe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 12:32:30 +0400 From: "Anton Mochalin" Subject: KC and their solo/collaboration works Hi! It's my first post to ET so... I just thought that KC was and is just an entryway for people to step into the great realm of Fripp/Gunn/CGT/LCG/BLUE/(others...) work. Just like an advertising project for newbies. Am I right? Anton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 17:25:40 -0500 From: Paul Hubers Subject: Fayman & Fripp - Big Time Flop Hello Everyone, Let me get right to the point: This CD *sucks*. I was looking forward to this release since the few reviews I read about it compared it to the Fripp & Eno releases. It's not even close. What we have here is 54 minutes of non distinct sound loops that go nowhere and compel the listener to be overwhelmed with boredom. It sounds like Fripp's creative input was to pluck a few strings and walk away, letting his sound machine drone on and on. There are no riffs, no solos, no music, just bland constipated noise incessantly repeated. And then there are the deceptive liner notes by Fayman that talk about recording this crap in some ancient temple. Not true! These Soundscape tapes are nine years old and Fripp gave (sold?) them to him. All he did was add some wind chimes and ocean waves sound effects. The aroma of opportunism permeates this CD like stale incense. The question must be asked: Why did Fripp allow this to happen? At this time I have no answer to this. I can only hope he will address this point and clarify what must be a very embarrassing incident for him. Sincerely (IMHO), Paul Hubers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 21:50:24 -0500 From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" Subject: Is TCOL Crimson? Regarding what "Timothy W Cox" wrote: > What is "Crimson" music? What distinctly separates it from the rest? What do > we as listeners feel Crimson music should possess? Well, given the number of different styles of music that has been released under the King Crimson name, I've come to the conclusion that the only correct answer is that it is played by the band named King Crimson. How else would you explain "Song of the Gulls" and "21st Century Schizoid Man" both being by King Crimson? > According to Fripp, "music appears which > only King Crimson can play"(Unknown guitar interview). I agree. On four > occasions I have taken the 73-74 disc, from the Frame by Frame box set, to > parties at the university which I attend (we'll leave it unnamed to protect > it's integrity). Each time I forced individuals, who told me they were > musicians, to set their beers down and listen in entirety (only 1 female > remained). They were amazed. And when I asked them to tell me when this > music was created they replied, "It must be from around the 90's or so". > When I told them it was from the early 70's their jaws instantly dropped and > asked for more information (absolutely no exaggeration)!! These are guys > that listen to Korn And Limp Biscuit (sp). This was my reaction when I first > heard schizoid and ITCOTCK back in the late 80's and I was in disbelief when > I heard the rest of the discography. There is absolutely no nostalgia here > guys cause I wasn't even born until the year the band broke up. It just > plain rocks!! Hmmm... I played "21st Century Schizoid Man" and "Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream" for some friends, but I don't think they were too impressed. Back then I only had THRAK, THRaKaTTaK, ITCOTCK, and maybe Red to choose from, but still... > Now, is TCOL music that only Crim can make? Does it posses crimson > qualities? In a 1995 interview Fripp says,"Now, Bill Buford provides a large > part of what a crimson drummer needs. Robert provides part of what the > guitar player in crimson needs"(Guitar World 1995). If we go strictly by > numbers we can look at the 80's Crim as half of what Crim should be. That > makes the 2000' Crim a quarter of what it should be. That also makes Crimson 1969 1/4 or 1/5 of what it should be, and the interim before Bruford (not Buford) joined even less! Also, by your logic the "perfect" King Crimson would consist of only Robert Fripp and Bill Bruford, or Robert Fripp alone. Rather, it sounds like Mr. Fripp is trying to say that no humans can perfectly express King Crimson music, but the best find their way into King Crimson. > But on this recent release I have to concede that he isn't a part > of what crimson should/could be. Or, rather, what you would like Crimson to be... > With lyrics like "get jiggy wid it wooah", A parody of what's "cool", or at least that's the reason I think that segment is in there. It definitely make me smile when I hear it... > "I've got the prozac blues", The lyrics are, "I've got the driving me to eat and drink a bottle of Prozac blues", and the entire song, I'm pretty sure, is about what posts like yours do to the band. > "Shakespeare fishing pole", Shakespeare, spear fishing, fishing pole > "Rodney King and OJ" It seems to me to be a sort of reverse "21st Century Schizoid Man", recounting, instead of the most notable things humanity will do in the future, what it has done in the past century. > the album sounds silly. I don't even think belew fit in with the 80's > band. It was interesting music but did not deserve the title of Crim. I guess the band felt differently, otherwise it would have remained Discipline. Perhaps the reason it doesn't sound like King Crimson is that it's King Crimson in disguise; occasionally, like in "Indiscipline", a small segment of "Industry", "Larks' 3" and, I think, "No Warning", King Crimson shows itself. And of course, they still played old stuff then... "Requiem" continues to puzzle me... it seems like a lot of noise played between promising Frippertronics. Maybe that's the point, though. > I disagree that he is beatlesque, with exception to his ballad stuff, although > much of his solo stuff certainly is. His music works wonderfully in his solo > material but he is just too plain nice and kooky for Crim. My main problem > with the TCOL and other Belew lyrics is the abuse of "I" and "me". It often > sounds like Adrian whining and bringing his personal life or feelings into > the music.. Better through Crimson music than in some other ways I could think of... Anyway, a LOT of what John Wetton sings seems pretty personal as well, even though they're written by Mr. Palmer-James: "Exiles", "Book of Saturdays", "Easy Money", "Lament", and especially, because he wrote that one himself, "One More Red Nightmare." "I" and "me" seem to be used quite a bit in those songs... > Crimson lyrics should make the listener imagine the scene like > an epic story or haunting poem. Lyrics like, "the wife with choke stone > throat", "impaled on nails of ice", "stark sharp glass eyed crack and peel", > and "croaking to a neighbor while she polishes a saber" seem more > appropriate. Frighten and intrigue me, don't make me whimper over a lost love > or think of cotton candy. And where in TCOL do the lyrics do that? I think TCOL is Mr .Belew's best, most consistent album for lyrics. I'll admit I don't like his ballads that much, especially the ones on THRAK, but TCOL solves that problem quite elegantly :-) > Now, Wetton and Lake naturally fit the position. They perfectly complimented > the groups aggressive music style., but I fear we will never experience that > power again. Or the power of Wallace or even the Buford Wetton combination. I guess we aren't listening to the same TCOL album, because I hear plenty of power, almost to excess even at times. > There has been talk of women at the mic. It sounds interesting but would it be > crimson? I don't think so! Save it for the solo stuff! Need I remind you that "I Talk To the Wind" was originally recorded with a female vocalist, and that version appears on "The Young Person's Guide to King Crimson"? I imagine the idea wass tossed around in the beginning. > How about a singer that doesn't play an instrument? Right, what's he > going to do while the fellas are jamming? Bang his tambourine like > that cat from the Moody Blues!?!? Huh? Are you referring to Jon Anderson from Yes? As far as I know everyone in the Moody Blues plays an instrument! The only dubious one is, I believe, Ray Thomas, since half the Moody Blues songs have no flute. But I digress... In any case, supposing King Crimson ever got a singer who does nothing else, I can think of several things: 1. Contribute silence like Mr. Bruford did on "Trio", and perhaps go into the audience like Mr. Fripp does during Soundscape performances and listen; 2. Sing skat for a while (if appropriate); 3. Utter (not so) random words like on the ProjeKct X CD; 4. Hook the microphone up to the Soundscapes equipment and see what happens. > A little on the instruments. Trey is a great musician no doubt about it, but > anyone who denies that he sounds like a little Fripp mini me is lying to > themselves. Perhaps this is exactly what Fripp wants, some one he can > control? Well, Trey Gunn _did_ take Guitar Craft courses, so some similarities are to be expected. However, listening to THRaKaTTaK, and having listened to the samples of his solo stuff on DGM and First World Music, I don't see that many similarities... > His solo material is very good. Third Star is a regular in my apt., > but the repetitive Fripp riffery and beat box background can get annoying. > On TCOL there is a definite need for a bass with a powerful attack and the > warr guitar just doesn't do it. Odd... I think there's plenty of bass in TCOL. > The drums? Pat is a talent as well. I saw > him jam along with Bill in in Denver but he should stay away from those > toilet drums and start hammering! Toilet drums? Now _that_ would be something to see! I doubt they would make a decent sound, though if anyone could get a groove out of them... no, I'm sure any mention of their name is Verboten after that turd of a post I made last time. I apologize for that. Anyway, they're called V-Drums, and their main features seem to be: 1. They can sort of sound like real drums 2. They can make all sorts of other interesting noises 3. They can be put, with effects if desired, straight into the mixing board, solving lots of sound engineering problems. The downside is, of course, they don't play or sound exactly like real drums. Give them wnother 10 years... > A busy drummer is a good drummer (I recognize the importance of silence). However, a great drummer plays what is required by the music. I'm not sure today's Crimson needs Mike Giles to go berzerk all the time, or Andy McCulloch's "constant snare-drum soloing" (as described previously on ET). > Mr. Belew's guitar is great as always but his licks > sound a little draggy and dull. I never have thought a fender could crunch > the numbers, but the solo on coda hints at intensity. And Mr. Fripp? > Technique, Technique. and that's it. I fear he has engrossed himself in his > religious rhetoric and discipline so much that he's lost the ability to step > on the mice. In other words he's scared to let that wood scream in holy > terror or diabolical madness. Ok, I'll admit that he does seem content to let Mr. Belew do all the screaming these days. I wouldn't say he's scared, just tired of being the center of attention in King Crimson. > And play a real piano if you want the effect. Give that midi to some bedroom > doodler. May the American tour prove me otherwise!!!! Might I suggest that a "real piano" wouldn't give the same effect of gliding around in pitch? > True events relating to TCOL (and I write these because I smell dishonesty > and brown nosing within ET and GB). Last week I took TCOL to a gathering. My > friends laughed at me when they heard Oyster Soup. And I quote "what kinda > pansy stuff is this?" and " ha, he said penis". Tonight an old friend called > me and before I could speak he shouts, "what the hell is this crimson shit. > It sounds like a bunch of pop tunes that could be played by anyone, gchnk > gchnk"(I am sad to say he downloaded it off of nipster). No comment... > But everyone did comment on the intensity of Fractured and Larks and thought > TCOL had a complex arrangement. Yesterday I stopped at the local music shop, > in the trade bins were 5 TCOL cds and one ITCOTCK (jewel case). It was a sad > sight. But who knows, they may be bought up soon by some high schooler who will > smell his way to the real goods. I still maintain that TCOL is decent music, > but its light and techy, and just not Crimson music. Funny, because the first thing I thought when I heard the RealAudio streams was, "This sounds like King Crimson of old! They did the one thing I didn't expect them to do!" Perhaps that last part is the key to what King Crimson is: it smashes all expectations of what King Crimson should be like. No, it's not perfect; Mr. Fripp needs more solos and a few more quieter moments wouldn't hurt it (NO, something besides the acoustic "I Have A Dream", as that would be redundant), but it is a successful King Crimson album. I might add I've heard every full-length studio release except VROOOM (is that an EP?), plus USA and THRaKaTTaK, but have never been to a concert. God, I hope they can come to Milwaukee as a four-piece... > Finally, what ingredients do I feel Crimson has and should posses to > legitimately be called Crim? The music should be dark with just the right > amount of cracks to let the light in, twisted, powerful, aggressive, there > can be humor but it must be perverse or bizarre like the laughter on Lizard, > chaotic, complex in sound and absence of sound, angry, improvisational, > soaring, emotional, but not sappy, more like starless, exiles, and fallen > angel, screeching and thud like. What it shouldn't be? goofy, melancholy, > grungy, poppy, sappy, personal, repetitive rhythmic or techno like 80's to > present Ultimately, it's up to Robert Fripp and/or King Crimson to decide what King Crimson should or should not be, not you or me. Anyway, if you want a band who's never changed its sound in the least, listen to AC/DC. The point of progressive music is to progress, not to play "the hits" over and over ad nauseum. > no more gadgets, they should stick with the instruments that > they have worked so long to master. After all, that is why many of us > listen, to hear musicians that have mastered their instrument and craft, not > a computer or box doing it for them. And I am happy to report that there are a few of us who listen to music for the music, no matter if it comes out of a box, no matter if Oscar the Grouch is one of the musicians, as long as the music affects us. In my case I tend to like music that leaves me wondering, "How _do_ they do that?!" In a sense, anyway, the gadgets _are_ the instruments that the current members of King Crimson have worked hard to master. Mssrs. Fripp, Belew, Gunn, and Mastelotto are still the source of the sounds that ultimately come out of the speakers. In fact, their job is harder with the extra technology becuase they have to figure out exactly the right settings to get the sounds that fit the music, instead of just playing a note and having to live with what comes out of the instrument. I suppose you'd like an all-acoustic Crimson, since, strictly speaking, electric guitars are instruments which transform electrical impulses caused by vibrating strings into sound through amplification, and inevitably, distortion, since even on the "clean" setting the waveform from the speaker won't match exactly the waveform of the vibrating string. > I am definitely in the camp of NO > CRIMSON IS BETTER THAN A POOR CRIMSON. They can play on but don't call it > crimson. "Oh, well why don't you just not listen or buy the albums" Easier > said than done and I just might miss out on a minute or two of Crimson that > can cause prophetic revelations and helpless drooling! What is a poor Crimson? Perhaps one where the players can't perform their parts at an acceptable level? The closest we've come to a poor Crimson, I think, is THRAK. The big problem is that only "VROOOM", "B'Boom", "THRAK", "VROOOM VROOOM", and "VROOOM VROOOM: Coda" actually sound like there are six parts. Thos pieces, and maybe "Dinosaur", are Crimson pieces. The rest are nothing special. > All of the above are my personal ramblings and I seek discussion from the > E.T. community on only two of the topics. What is crimson music? and What > do we feel crimson music should posses? Well, since I've already used up most of the space of the next Newsletter (sorry Toby) here's the short version: 1. King Crimson music is the music played by the band King Crimson. 2. Anything the members of the band King Crimson deem desirable. Were we in the band King Crimson, then we could decide what King Crimson should be, but we're not. Justin A. Kolodziej ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:33:17 +0200 From: "Jim Clark" Subject: Remastered KC Works and Situation Dangerous I emailed DGM about ordering the pending remastered versions of Starless, Red and LTiA on Monday without reply. Presumably, my email did not qualify as worthy of response. I will buy these remasters, since I have only the original EG Records CD versions that were not handled and approved by Fripp. These new 24bit versions should be quite a sonic improvement. I do wonder about the decision to make them HDCD encoded though. HDCD encoding only works on CD players with a special HDCD chipset. This chipset will provide enhanced sound but will still not rival the original vinyl pressings. HDCD has been around for several years but still doesn't have many adherents. Only about 12-15 CD manufacturers use these chips in their boxes. On the other hand Super Audio CD (SACD) and DVD-Audio (DVD-A) are two new CD recording/manufacturing techniques that purportedly surpass vinyl in recreating music. SACD has been available for about eight months and DVD-A players are just becoming available. Sony and Philips are the creators of SACD. Initial SACD units are being sold for the audiophile crowd although there is one new consumer unit in Europe. Sony and Marantz (Philips' upscale brand) each have three players at this time. Sony's MSRPs are $5000. for the SCD-1, $3500. for theSCD-777ES and 2000Dfl (Dutch Guilders) for the XB-940. Sony Music SACD titles retail for $24.99. I don't know much about DVD-A but it is also supposed to embrace recordings that have been imbued with 24bit/96khz sampling as well like these remasters. In theory, it would be nice to have one player (DVD-A) that does movies and music equally well but SACD has garnered the better music reviews so far. Both new CD formats are backward compatible and can be played on 16bit machines. I wonder why Mr. Fripp didn't do these recordings with SACD or DVD-A. Maybe for the third remaster. "Situation Dangerous" is the title of the new Bozzio, Stevens and Tony Levin album. It came out on August 8 and I just got my copy from CDNOW and the USPS about two weeks ago. Initial listening sez that this second collaboration has a lot more confidence than their first work, "Black Light Syndrome" (BLS). Although, I love BLS. Bozzio is terrific and seems to anticipate his collaborators more this time. Perhaps this recording was given a lot more preparation time than BLS was? Tony Levin - solid as ever but Steve Stevens is truly a gibox wizard. Stevens (Atomic Playboys, Michael Jackson and much L.A. session work) plays powerful, driving chords for heavy rock tune effect but fashions some really beautiful spanish/flamenco guitar - stunning stuff. The recording is top notch too. Highly recommended. Jim Clark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 06:06:26 -0400 From: "Dave Schroeder" Subject: AGE OF KING CRIMSON I just purchased a 6 cd collection titled 'Age of King Crimson' on EG/Virgin BGCD 03022, 03034, 03025, 03026, 03027, 03028. They have a copyright of 1995Costic Service. Within the collection of cds all the songs from all the studio albums up to VROOOM are recorded. I was wondering if anyone has any information about these cds, since I have never seen them listed at any discography on KC. They are not for sale. I will soon have pics of the covers on my web site devoted to my CrimKcollection: http://www.geocities.com/crimhed/KING_CRIMSON_C/Page_2x.html Please email me any information you might know about this collection. Thanks, DAVID SCHROEDER davids at ezy dot net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:25:01 +0100 From: Jeff Walker Subject: KC and the sunshine banned Sometimes, Ideas and understanding seek out a body to give it voice. Sadly on this occasion if there are any luminous frags of genuine wisdom to be passed to us sad questioning mortals. It won,t be thru me. Something is going on tho' cos we have listened to Cof L every day since it came out, and we had no answers or questions. Just a kind of proding. It goes all the way back to Red for us , prod , sometimes..SLAP. We never ever felt this in the basement. Only when we emerged in the court King Crimson surrounded by his ever changing supporters on and off stage did we finally understand. Only for a frakction mind. And then it is gone. Long live the king. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:59:11 -0500 From: "Chip Orr" Subject: Oh, they're just Beatle wannabes! There's a semi-interesting thread going on in these pages about how to describe KC to the uninitiated. "Noise" is my favorite so far. I used to tell people that bands like Judas Priest and Iron Maiden wish they could be heavy like KC, but that rather dates me now, doesn't it? My current view on how to describe KC is why bother. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 22:41:32 GMT From: "Michael J. Bennett" Subject: Tony Levin having fun Seeing Tony Levin on tour this year with the CGT and Jerry Marotta, Larry Fast and Jesse Gress, one can only contemplate that had Tony been a part of the current King Crimson lineup would he be having so much fun right now? From Tony's perspective, not being included has provided him with an opportunity that he might not otherwise have had. He's been able to be a front man for a band supporting his solo release. In a funny way, we've been seeing an experienced and seasoned professional musician flower and become something more. Funny because one wouldn't think there was mroe flowering a guy like Tony could do. I'm going to suggest that perhaps this is the best thing that could have happened for him, and that if he ever is a part of a future Crimson lineup, KC will benefit from Tony's experiences away from the band, without necessarily having suffered without him. As an additional side note, Fripp has suggested to Sid Smith to look at what individual players have done outside of King Crimson to reflect on their contributions within King Crimson. Although Tony's resume is already incredible, his recent work (B.L.U.E. and beyond) is certainly testimony to the contibutions he has brought in the past, or to his potential in the future, should such a future occur. Nomad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 20:39:28 EDT From: "Nomad Stem" Subject: PIERRE-EMILE/ALICE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT WEDSEP6/2000/20:35 PARLIAMENT OF PACHYDERMS: I should like to publicly thank PIERRE-EMILE for the provision of information and samples of the music of ALICE. I should have liked to thank you privately, but I misplaced your Email address before logging it in my database. Je m'excuse, monsieur, et merci beaucoup! "There's nothing you can do that can't be done." -JOHN LENNON Excelsior! MALCOLM XERXES (BATTERIE/PERCUSSIVES) ACTRA/BAEA/CAEA malcolmxerxes at hotmail dot com www.angelfire.com/music/a1000m Email: a1000m at hotmail dot com www.shakesintherough.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:35:27 -0400 From: "MALCOLM XERXES" Subject: Exposure in Vinyl In ET # 731 "Buzz Fenner" wrote: > If you look at the tiny writing scratched into the vinyl near the inner > groove of side 2, you will read this: "The aim is freedom, conscience and > truth." I have two copies of this. One is as described. The other has cover and inside slip identical to the first in every way. However the vinyl has no such lettering only control numbering. The curious thing is that that the second has "Side One" labels one both side one and two. Anyone else see this? Jim ("Spunky" is my dog!) __ /(oo)\ /-------\/ * ||----|| ^^ ^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:22:55 -0400 From: "Jim McLaughlin" Subject: What is King Crimson? Shall a rose, by any other name, smell as sweet? Greetings fellow esteemed full-of-ourselves (of which, I concede, I am the fullest!): This "What is King Crimson question is both a) completely absurd and frivolous, and b) just silly enough that I cannot resist taking on the question, the lure is too much fun! King Crimson to me IS the mad evolving organism of creativity unbound by traditional restraints AND bound by peculiar ones, simultaneously dispensing of ALL known "rules" while proving the necessity of OTHER rules that do not readily appear. I used to think the music of KC was delicate brutality personified, like the slow motion gracefulness of Hannibal Lechter's face-eating rampage in Silence Of The Lambs - you know it's horror, yet you see an undeniable beauty in it's every form that somehow justifies the function. But that's only part of the picture for me now. I now see the music of King Crimson as a true, unfettered reflection of life itself; for with the saddest times of our lives there are often hidden sweetnesses hidden within, both to ease the pangs of loss and point to the good fruits that sometimes spring forth out of tragedy. And in the rapture of unutterable and exalted joy, we can sometimes dully sense something about to unravel the fabric of happy circumstances, or at least recognise in the moment that the happiness attained is still lacking something, and we haven't "arrived" at all! In between the polar opposites of simplistically named "happy" and "sad" is a multi-dimensional lattice-work of co-existing and conflicting emotional shadows - and somehow, in some divinely ( I hope! ) inspired way, King Crimson touches on all these depths and subtleties, sometimes with a soft mallet, sometimes with a pick-axe, ALWAYS a bulls-eye and miraculously so - both because of the humans involved and in spite of them! Wait... what the HELL did I just say? Never mind - it's not important at all. Just keep enjoying the music, people. Best wishes, Greg Jones ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 00:54:55 -0400 From: "GREG JONES" Subject: Crimson/DGM in music stores I just wanted to pass along some helpful info to the group. If you live in the North Austin/Central Texas area, the Barnes and Noble store at Lakeline Mall (183 & 620) carries a big selection of Crimson and DGM CD's. I am one of the music sellers at this store and I have personally made sure that we stock as much of the DGM catalog as possible. Not only do we have all the Crimson CD's that are in stock, we have nearly all the DGM stuff...only lacking some of the early stuff, but as for all the new DGM music, we have it. I've also made sure to stock all artists that are either guest spots by Crims or related artists. Including: Crimson (all audio, video and DVD), CGT, Trey Gunn, Daryl Hall, Fayman & Fripp, Mastica, Adrian Belew, Zappa, Mike Keneally, Percy Howard (featuring Gunn and Vernon Reid), Bill Bruford, John Paul Jones, the ProjeKcts, Fripp, Giles/Muir/Cunningham, Fripp/Gunn/Rieflin, Levin, etc. So, if you want some DGM music, but don't want to wait a week or two, come and check us out and if we don't have it in stock, we can order it as well. And for all reading, I DO NOT get any commission on what I sell (hourly wage). I'm posting this for the benefit of the ET readers who live in Central Texas. Hope to see some (more) of you Crimheads out there. James Hines (not the Crafty, the other guy) cheevyjames at hotmail dot com ---------- ------------------------------ Date: 07 Sep 2000 08:40:47 +0100 From: JamesLHines at netscape dot net Subject: S/F LD for trade Hello, a quick unlurk I have the second (almost mint) copy of Sylvian/Fripp concert in Nakano Sun Plaza 26/X/1993 on VAP laserdisc. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN ANY MONEY, SO NO SUCH OFFERS PLEASE. I am desperately searching for these LD's PENGUIN CAFE ORCHESTRA: STILL LIFE DURUTTI COLUMN: DOMO ARIGATO or you can offer any LD you would like to trade for S/F live in Japan. Best offer will get the item. thanks for bandwith jan Jan Slemenda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 18:22:23 +0200 From: slemenda at atlas dot cz Subject: KC to the uninitiated Interesting discussion going on lately about 'how to describe KC music to non-initiates'. I recently made an attempt in a correspondence with a pen pal (of the non-dangling type) who innocently enquired "who or what" KC were. Here goes: "The band (or maybe: several bands in succession sharing the same name) has existed on and off in constantly changing lineups since 1969. The music you would probably not like. Again: not many people do. I am not sure how to describe the music so you'd get a proper idea, but here are some characteristics. A lot of it is loud. Some of it is very loud. Some of it is astonishingly quiet. Some of it is influenced by jazz, classical chamber music, minimal music, avant garde, world music, drum'n'bass and heavy metal. A lot of it is very complex (odd time signatures, very fast, etc.) A lot of it is improvised. A lot of it is quite dark and bleak (not exactly music to snuggle up close to the fireplace by.) Almost all of it is hated by the wives, mine included, though at the recent European tour some females were actually sighted in the audience. In short, it is quite definitely an acquired taste." Make any sense? Apart of course from the "the music you would not like"-part which I'm sure many on this list will consider offensive but which in this case is probably true. Then again, who knows... Keep up the elephantosity! Richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:43:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Richard van Roomen" Subject: ProjeKcts do rule Crimitorus vobis salutat, I agree with 'ChalkPie' Frank in the last newsletter that the ProjeKcts, and Mastelloto are great : way off the beaten track this stuff. I only bought the box about 6 weeks ago, and immediately liked p2, and was completely blown away by 3 + 4. I wasn't too crazy about P1 at first, but two weeks ago, it hit me as well, especially tracks v and vi. It may not be as ground breaking as P3/4, but still amazing! I'm curious : to what degree is this improvisation? With 2/4, it seems to me that most songs have a lot of room for improv, rather than being totally improvised ,eg 'ConstruKctions', 'Ghost'. There's only one P1 cd, so I can't compare that (just 3ii2, the start for 'Projekction'). Maybe head-arrangements? BTW, you should really hear 'The Roar Of P4' : one whole live show : some noodling here and there, but fantastic moments too, especially 'Seizure', which has a Magma ambience too it, I think. I especially joined the club for this one, and I'm glad I did. Schol, Jan PS please xcuse my Latin, it's been a while since I left school:) ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #732 ********************************