Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #730 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 730 Thursday, 31 August 2000 Today's Topics: Sara Lee and TCoL Re: Leon Thomas Re: who's who in ET logo Fripp`s scorching guitar ThrackAttak In NY Times Newsletter Enjoy ... That Beatles Cover Again as David Gilmour's guitar is What was I thinking? Describe King Crimson, Butcher! Re: to be Crimson or not to be Re: Lizard analysis, what is King Crimson Fearless Flying Frog Brigade Why the big hurry on TCOL? Mike Kenneally's Review of TCOL In the basement subject: comments on The Night Watch comments on The Beginners' Guide To The King Crimson Collectors' ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:44:54 GMT From: "Martin Warin" Subject: Sara Lee and TCoL Greetings! Yeah, well...let's just get to the point... * Is Sara Lee from the League of Gentlemen (aaah!) the same Sara Lee who played bass with Ani DiFranco? * Were any KC shows from 73-74 ever filmed? * A lot has been said about TCoL... I kinda like it, though Pat's drumming sometimes gets on my nerves, especially in 'LTiA4' and 'Coda'. I'm no great fan of V-drums, but I must say that I do think they sound cool in 'TCoL' and 'Heaven and Earth' (i.e. the songs). How come there are no screams of joy for Trey Gunn? I think he's done some great bass/warr/whatever throughout the whole record! In Fripp We Trust --Martin Warin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:39:38 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Re: Leon Thomas >>Leon Thomas is probably best known for singing 'Creator', and for his >yodelling improvisation style. Thomas sang on the original (30 minute long) >version of 'Creator' on Sanders' _Karma_, and then recorded it himself later >in that year for his first solo record, _Spirits Known and Unknown_ as a >lighter, more relaxed piece. The song became a bit of an avante-garde >standard when Thomas performed it with none other than Louis Armstrong in >1970. Was this one (w/ Satchmo) ever recorded? Sidenote: Leon Thomas was also the vocalist on Santana`s remarkable (& best IMO), "Lotus" album, as well as a major inspiration (check out his 'yodelling' technique), for Italy`s Area vocalist, Demetrio Statos. If you haven`t heard Area, you should!!!! They`re incomparable!!! ~Craig ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:47:46 +0200 From: Goran Janicijevic Subject: Re: who's who in ET logo Edgar Kausel wrote: >Now, i'm curious about the one from t"A"lk. Any Idea? Looks like Greg Lake. -- Goran ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:12:45 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Fripp`s scorching guitar > And Mr. Fripp? >Technique, Technique. and that's it. I fear he has engrossed himself in his >religious rhetoric and discipline so much that he's lost the ability to step >on the mice. In other words he's scared to let that wood scream in holy >terror or diabolical madness. Let me just say this............. I was just listening to some of the CClub stuff from early `70s & marveling at what an absolutely ferocious/visceral/ nearly brutal, sound The Fripp could produce back then. Just staggering! It sends shivers up the spine! .........and his marvelous solos on the improvs were resplendent w/ spell-binding jazzy chord comping, etc. Very adventurous ideas, & totally compelling to 'behear'. 8^) Each of us looks for (and hears) different things...... Time changes all things,....... ..............but, that`s not to say that the future will not offer new delights. I will look forward to the *next* KC album,....as always. ~Craig ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:37:34 -0400 From: "Labbauf, Les" Subject: ThrackAttak In NY Times Newsletter I was completing the Tuesday edition of the NY Times crossword puzzle (As appeared in the 08/29/00 edition of the Harrisburg Patriot News) and found the following answer to this clue 25 Down "Start Hammering" The answer I came up was "THRACKATACK" The them of the puzzle seemed to be repeating sounds as the answer to 11 down "Be able to buy some wheels" answer being "AFFORDAFORD". Wonder if the person who created the puzzle is a crimson fan? Les B. Labbauf System Analyst PA Dept. Of Revenue Bureau of Information Systems (717) 772-9625 "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants" -Bob Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 01:58:35 +0200 From: Hicham Subject: Enjoy ... Hello everyone, Just a couple of line to you all. My view on views. Not meant to hurt anyone but still ... it could .... I was really getting tired about most of the philosophical explanations of why or who or what KC is or is not or should be or will be or plays or sings or does, with or without him or them or v-drum or not and and why TCOL is or is not or should be or sounds like or doesn't or could ... and so on and on and on .... Some very arriere-garde talks about an avant-garde band. And then ..., this short post by Dave Schroeder : Respect the artists and ENJOY what they do!! All I can add is a noisy "Thanks Dave", in the hope that your post will put an end to the useless "talks" and noticeably about TCOL. Enjoy .... simply enjoy .... Hicham PS : I know nobody cares, but I couldn't resist ... TCOL is one of my favourite KC album (Don't ask me why ;-). Thank you very very much RF, TG, AB and PM if you ever happen to read this message ... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:16:34 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: That Beatles Cover Again In ET #729 Bill Jacobson sez: "Wasn't the 'Butcher Cover' for RCA (USA)? Like many songwriters and musicians, the Beatles considered their songs and albums their "babies." RCA would chop up their LPs, add non-LP single and EP tracks, and make more "product" by cutting down the number of songs on each LP. Hence we had albums like "Meet the Beatles," "Yesterday ... and Today," "The Beatles Second Album," the original "Yellow Submarine" disk, "Something New," "Beatles '65," "Hey Jude," "Beatles VI," etc. RCA also threw the recordings into fake stereo and added reverb, which was against their contract." Capitol, not RCA. Capitol was (and is) the US arm of EMI, for whom the Beatles recorded in the UK. Capitol was foolish enough to pass up the first Beatles album initially, allowing it to go to the small VeeJay label, which repackaged it a number of times. Later Capitol reissued the album, more or less. Bill continues: "I heard that RCA was printing up and packaging the Butcher Baby cover when someone took a look, and said, "Hey we can't release this!" A small handfull, indeed, made their way out to the public." Actually, thousands were sold -- and many that were recalled simply had a new cover pasted over the old one. These too are collectors' items, and there must be many thousands of them. --TW (Dr P) [ OK, that's the wrap on this thread. Cheers -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:31:37 GMT From: "Spear man" Subject: as David Gilmour's guitar is hmm couldn't let this go by without commenting: >as David Gilmour's guitar is a bit easier to emulate. yes, except there's no one that can be that lazy, nor play as slowly--just look at the one, two, three, four or was it five guitarists? that played on the Roger Waters In The Flesh 2000 tour. Non e of 'em could play like Dave. --spearman np Rimitti--Cheikha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:24:37 -0600 From: "Bill" Subject: What was I thinking? When I mentioned the Beatles in my last post, rather than correctly say Capitol, I said RCA. Uh-duh (But you know, those ugly greedy major labels are all the same ;). I think the album cover with them and the baby dolls was . I used to have a gif of it, but can't find it now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:43:27 CEST From: "Marcus Enochsson" Subject: Describe King Crimson, Butcher! Hello everybody, please stand up and cheer. I'm back. I've just caught up with the latest months ET digests. Interesting as always. During my non-ET months, I've been asked a handful o' times about my musical tastes, and sadly, but as expected, the name King Crimson rang no bells when mentioned by me. The logical next question was often "What kind of music do they do?", "What are they like?", to which I often responded something with as much focus, context and truth as a bucket of herrings. Which leads me into my question: How do you explain King Crimson to a person who has very different musical references than me? For a person who's musical tastes are limited to the top lists controlled by clever marketing people, how does one best give a good picture of what KC is all about? The very different incarnations doesn't make things easier either... This isp perhaps closely related to the ongoing and very interesting debate "what is King Crimson?", but I rather seek a way to put the answers to that in words suitable for a non-progger. A few charachteristics of KC through the years to me could be that they're guitar based, heavy and often distorted (but still very far from hard rock and heavy metal), challenging, eager to experiment with sounds, instruments, composition, meters, technique, skilled musicians, focused, improvisational and vastly underrated. Also, I've described their music as punch-in-the-belly-music. That is, music that makes you lose your breath. When I come to think of it, I think I've almost answered my own question there. Darn it... Well, onto another subject, the Beatles butcher cover has surfaced again, on one of the unofficial Odeon beautiful digipak releases. I discovered quite a few Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, Floyd etc. very good looking digipak CDs in a nearby CD store. They were released by Odeon, and were mainly re-releases of albums, including relevant singles, demos etc, better bootlegs and singles. I think the butcher cover CD was called Yesterday... and Today, and was something like the original record, with one or a few extras. Nearly Sincerely Marcus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:38:07 +0100 From: "Richard Heath" Subject: Re: to be Crimson or not to be In ET 728, Timothy W Cox wrote: Last week I took TCOL to a gathering. My friends laughed at me when they heard Oyster Soup. And I quote "what kinda pansy stuff is this?" and " ha, he said penis". Tonight an old friend called me and before I could speak he shouts, "what the hell is this crimson shit. It sounds like a bunch of pop tunes that could be played by anyone, gchnk gchnk" Perhaps the problem is with your friends, Tim.... maybe you should dump Beavis and Butthead and get some who are a little more articulate. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:35:24 +0100 From: Sandy Starr Subject: Re: Lizard analysis, what is King Crimson Hello, fellow ETers - I've been too busy to engage in much Elephant Talk lately. Hello Markus, Jury et al, sorry I've been out of touch. Barbara Boyer, thank you so much for your interpretation of the piece 'Lizard' in ET #729. With the recent remaster of the Lizard album, I've been listening to it a lot and exploring its sounds and structures. Truly a strange and beautiful work. I'm less keen on your detailed narrative interpretation of the piece than on your attention to _textures_. I find the 'dreamy utopian prog textures' vs. 'deep down filthy jazz textures' dichotomy very interesting, both on the title track and throughout the album. It's also interesting on Islands - think 'Sailor's Tale' and 'Ladies of the Road' (where the jazz textures literally convey sex) vs. 'Formentera Lady' and 'Islands'. It's interesting that RF sometimes comes across as downplaying the 'transitory' recordings between ITCOTCK and LTIA, and it prompted me to think about this era in relation to the question 'What is King Crimson?', which in one form or another has been the subject of many recent ET postings. I came up with four propositions, two conclusions and seven observations. PROPOSITIONS: 1) Many talented musicians from a variety of backgrounds, often with rich and fascinating careers in their own right, have been members of King Crimson at various points in the band's history. 2) The intangible entity 'King Crimson', whose presence is disputed by fans and discerned intuitively by RF at various points in his performing/recording career, has been present to greater and lesser degrees in music performed/recorded under the name 'King Crimson' over the past 30+ years. 3) The greater the degree to which the intangible entity 'King Crimson' is present at a certain stage in the band's performing/recording history, the more it eclipses the individual talents of the band's members, and the more it draws upon them to create a collective whole. This collective whole is informed by the talents of its members, but transcends them, and is, to use a cliched phrase, 'more than the sum of its parts.' 4) The lesser the degree to which the intangible entity 'King Crimson' is present at a certain stage in the band's performing/recording history, given the generally high calibre of the band's members, the more you're likely to get a high quality period recording reflecting the specifically individual talents and influences of those band members, and the music scene at the time. CONCLUSIONS: 1) The history of 'King Crimson' the objective entity can be traced through certain seminal recordings: ITCOTCK, LTIA, Discipline, etc. (There is much room for dispute as to what these seminal recordings are - controversially I would include TCOL amongst them, but obviously people are free to disagree.) Those seminal recordings are best appreciated ahistorically, as works dominated by an objective influence. 2) The history of 'King Crimson' the band can be traced through every recording made under that name. Those recordings (e.g. ITWOP, Lizard, Islands) not in the 'seminal' category, in the sense of 'seminal' used above, are best appreciated historically, in the context of eras, movements and influences (e.g. Keith Tippet's jazz techniques, Mel Collins and Ian Wallace drawing from influences such as John Coltrane, pop and new-wave influences on recordings by 80s KC). OBSERVATIONS: 1) The distinction between the two senses of 'King Crimson' I refer to, objective entity and band, is not necessarily clear cut in terms of how well certain recordings represent each one. The presence of the objective entity can be a question of degrees. This does not make the nature of the entity itself a question of degrees. The entity is singular and authoritative - it must be, or we would not be able to use it as a benchmark against which to measure its own presence. 2) To say that a recording by 'King Crimson' the band is not 'seminal', in the sense used above, is in no way to denigrate it. (Thank god - I love Lizard and Islands.) 3) When seen in this way, the history of King Crimson becomes a dialogue between historically specific people and influences, which are diverse; and something objective and intangible, which is singular. 4) The historically specific side of this equation follows the linear flow of time: influences accumulate sequentially. The objective side of this equation does not follow the linear flow of time. On the surface, the objective side can appear to anticipate future developments (hence anecdotes on ET about playing The Great Deceiver box set to unfamiliar ears, who assume it was recorded recently). At a more profound level, notions of 'past' and 'future' are quite meaningless in relation to the objective side. Put bluntly, every seminal recording by KC exists - we just don't know about all of them yet, because they haven't all been recorded. 5) This last point has consequences for the band's relation to its own history. This can be confusing. On the historically specific side, the band can be an influence on itself. On the objective side, there are no 'influences', just configurations of a certain vocabulary. I would argue that 'Vroom' draws on 'Red' in a sequential and historically specific sense, because I intuit that the two pieces are related at a surface level. I would argue that 'Fracture' and 'FraKctured' are different configurations of a certain vocabulary in an objective sense, because I intuit that the relationship between the two pieces is internalised. My intution could be flawed, and I am open to other arguments. 6) To say that a King Crimson recording is influenced by a previous King Crimson recording, in the historically specific sense used above, is not to denigrate it. (Thank god - I love 'Vroom'.) 7) The recurring question 'Is RF the leader of KC' can now be answered. On the historically specific side of the equation, RF is a continuous presence and decision-maker in KC, and therefore according to certain definitions could be said to be KC's 'leader'. On the objective side of the equation, notions of 'leadership', and even of individuality, become meaningless. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:42:32 EDT From: ChalkPie88 at aol dot com Subject: Fearless Flying Frog Brigade Hello fellow people, Just wanted to say that Sussberg, Wiggit, and myself caught the Les Claypool show last night at Irving Plaza in NYC. Holy Shaat!!! That was the FUNNEST show I have been to in a while. When the band came out (Les had an 'Alex-type Clockwork Orange' Mask on) and started playing "Thela Hun Ginjeet", and the smell of various burning green substances eminated in and around me, I had a tremendously large grin that actually lasted the whole night. The second set, "Animals" in it's entirety, was absolutely fantastic. Both guitarists, one being Todd Huth (from Sausage), were equally fantastic in their own right. (Very interesting playing, with glimpses of Zappa and Fripp). Not really sure who the other cat with the dreadlocks was, but great stuff. Les was absolutely brillant in both his playing and stage presence. TONS of FUN ENERGY. Go see this show if you can, but just don't stand to close to the front or you might find yourself in the middle of a very intense mosh pit consisting of various people who are very drunk and/or high and who knows what else. One last thing, if anybody has seen the current Trey Gunn Band show, please post a review. I'm interested in hearing about it. I'll see everybody Sept. 14th at The Knitting Factory. Cheers, F The W ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:26:57 -0700 From: "David Isaak" Subject: Why the big hurry on TCOL? I confess that I haven't posted to this site before, and only log in every so often for a taste. But I must say that something that really puzzles me is why everyone is always in such a hurry to give their opinions on the latest thing--the latest thing being, in this case, TCOL. I trust Fripp, and I trust all of the guys who have been in the band over the years. When they come up with something new, I give it a chance. Sometimes I don't get it at first. (The audience at the premiere of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring outright hated it--which in hindsight seems impossible!) Sometimes, after a few years, I get it but still don't like it that much. Conversely, sometimes something that I really like on first hearing doesn't age well at all... People seem to have an awful lot of opinions about what artists ought to do, and they seem to have an awful lot of expectations about what ought to come next. For me, the bottom line is that I am glad that these guys (in their KC guise and in all of their independent configurations) are doing what they are doing. If I don't like it at first, maybe I'll like it later; and even if I don't like it later, I can always trust this gang to keep evolving. They haven't failed me yet, after about thirty years. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:08:39 -0700 From: "David Isaak" Subject: Mike Kenneally's Review of TCOL If this hasn't been posted yet, I have to urge readers to check out MK's review at http://www.noneforyoudear.com/reviews/music/kingcrimson.html Very lengthy, very intelligent. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 20:46:41 -0500 From: "Antoine W. Caron" Subject: In the basement Mfort wrote: >Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:15:25 EDT >From: Mfortfam at aol dot com >Subject: Re: Abbey Road vs ItCotCK >Darryl asked, a couple of ETs ago: ><< Excuse me for not being born until the 70's, but which was released first: >ABBEY ROAD or ITCOTCK? > >> >_Abbey Road_ was released in September 1969. (I'd have to dig out a Beatles >reference book from my basement for the specific date, but it was September Oh no!!! The Beatles are in the basement! [ ...not for much longer they're not -- Toby ] aWc Antoine W. Caron awcaron at total dot net antoine dot caron at nrc dot ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:24:00 +0200 From: eric dot odijk at grontmij dot nl Subject: comments on The Night Watch Hello, Here are my comments on the double cd The Night Watch: Being dutch, I was especially curious of how this could sound. I was absolutely stunned, what a great quality. Both playing and recording were good, it sounds nothing like any other live album I have from the mid-seventies. I can see that there's been a lot of love and hard work in getting this album to sound like this. I read through the booklet and discovered how Fripp and Singleton managed to do this. I think, after everything they had to go through, a lot of other dedicated producers of live albums would have given up the idea of releasing the whole show, but they went on. It was pure luck that recordings were made for the Starless And Bible Black album. And if you read Singletons notes on the last page you listen to this album in quite a different way. First, the opening track is totally gone, but starting off with the sudden bang of Easy Money isn't that bad. Then a couple of tunes from Larks' Tongue that sound a lot better than their studio versions, just as the Lark tracks the play later on. Then the SaBB bunch. It says that those tracks were partly recovered from the overdubbed tracks they used for the making of SaBB, and I can hear why. Combine Singletons story with the text on the facing page about how live recordings can fail (mikes from the drumkit that record all sounds), and you'll want to find hidden treasures. And I believe I found something: in Fracture, about two third into the song, you can hear the original live bass guitar through the drum mikes, playing very aggressive, while the overdubbed bass line plays a lot more gentle, so there you have two bass players! There are a few other occasions where I get the feeling (only on my good headphones) that there are extra musicians playing. Like on the point in The Night Watch where Davids mellotron dies, but that just adds to the story that this cd is telling. Cross is telling us in his notes that the band really started playing after Trio, and he's right. Exiles and the show from that point on is just frightening. What a great dark and haunting feel they produce! Fright Watch/Talking Drum/Lark II is a true gem! This alone is enough to justify the purchase. This atmosphere was just right for the Starless song on Red. What a pity they did not have this song ready at this concert, because everything was there: atmosphere, sound, band quality. This cd made me realize that this Cross/Wetton/Bruford/Fripp is my favourite live KC! Now if only I could get my hands on The Great Deceiver, but that box costs a fortune. I'm thinking of buying it anyway. I need more of this. Eric Odijk The Netherlands ericodijk at yahoo dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:24:28 +0200 From: eric dot odijk at grontmij dot nl Subject: comments on The Beginners' Guide To The King Crimson Collectors' Club Hello, my comments on the cd: The Beginners' Guide To The King Crimson Collectors' Club Not being a member of the Collectors Club (yet) I was happy that a sampler was released. Now I can try out a good set of songs that represent the quality of those official bootleg club cd's. 21st Century Schizoid Man (From CLUB10: King Crimson - Live in Central Park, NYC, 1974) A special thing, since it was to be their last gig in the Cross/Bruford/Wetton/Fripp line-up. Good performance, very intense, although I would have opted for Starless. Sound quality is average, good drum sound, good voice, but a little weak in the higher cymbal range. Nice as a Club release, but it would not be good enough for a regular cd release, so it's right this way. I Talk To The Wind (From CLUB1: King Crimson - Live at The Marquee 1969) Good version, I think it monaural, but who cares, but there's a tape dropout somewhere in the middle. I think I could have saved it there, with my computer, because there is no drum beat at that moment, and I would have dubbed a second from another moment of the same song onto that small flaw. Nobody would hear it. Larks' Tongues In Aspic: Part 1 (From CLUB3: King Crimson - The Beat Club, Bremen 1972) Jamie Muir! Also monaural, but what a great sound! I would release this cd regularly, since it sounds very good. And what a good interaction between Jamie and Bill. One of the reasons for buying this compilation. Ladies Of The Road (From CLUB2: King Crimson - Live at Jacksonville 1972) First I thought this was the same version as on Cirkus, but then it isn't. Sound quality is not that good, when they play loud the sound is like recording something too loud on a cassette. This line-up wasn't that bad, I like those dirty lyrics, Boz has the right voice for a song like this. The Sailor's Tale (From CLUB9: King Crimson - Live at Summit Studios 1972) Now this sounds a lot better than anything I heard live from the Boz-period. I think this cd can be released regularly. It would make a good double cd if combined with an earlier Boz-gig where they play different songs (like Jacksonville). If Summit Studios was not only available to Club members, I would buy it. Funny: the snare drum is mixed to the left instead of center, where it should normally be. Thela Hun Ginjeet (From CLUB11: King Crimson - Moles Club, Bath, 1981) Good song, okay, but where's the drummer? Sound quality is not so good, but I get the feeling that the band plays very intense. Not suitable for normal release. Elephant Talk (From CLUB4: King Crimson - Live at Cap D'Agde 1982) Simple: good song, good version, great recording quality thanks to Roxy Music, this Club cd should be available for a greater audience. But I think they won't do it, because it would interfere with the Absent Lovers cd and the Frejus video. People (From CLUB5-6: King Crimson - On Broadway - Live in NYC 1995) Good recording, but then again, this is 1995 and recording facilities are good these days. Also this double cd can be released, it's good enough, but this one would interfere with B'boom, I guess. Well worth the money. Funky Jam (From CLUB8: King Crimson - The VROOOM Sessions 1994) Ow, this is goood! Quality, playing, atmosphere, this club cd is very interesting. Recorded before their first gig, this band is here still figuring out how to make a double trio. I guess the rest of CLUB8 will also very tasty! Seizure (From CLUB7: ProjeKct Four - Live in San Francisco 1998) Fripp and Belew are great as a double guitar tam, but here there is no Ade Belew. But all Crimso members are good at interactive playing, this bass-like twin work is very very good, the Roar Of P4 is wonderul. Release this officially, mister Fripp, this is great stuff. You'd have me as a buyer! Overall: this cd is exactly what you'd want it to be. A great sampler and very representative of the Club releases. I now know which ones I'd buy and which ones I wouldn't. My opinion: the following cd's should be released to the greater public: CLUB3 with Jamie, CLUB9 from Summit, CLUB5-6 from Broadway and CLUB7 from P4. I would buy them. Now I don't like to join the Club yet, since KC is not the only band I listen to, but I don't know anymore. Can any clubmember buy them for me? I'll pay you back! Eric Odijk The Netherlands ericodijk at yahoo dot com ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #730 ********************************