Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #728 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 728 Sunday, 27 August 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: LA shows announced NEWS: The Trey Gunn Band on tour None For You Dear Adrian Belew and KC Re: The Beatles Bands RF with PG New "Red" Remaster - INCREDIBLE Remastered 24 bit versions of studios albums ET MEMBERS ENQUETE Plane CDs friends Hungarian Music trey's sound looking for a KC song Vernon & The Beatles Re: Subject: Col. Les Claypool's Fearless Flying Frog Brigade Re: Subject: 1910 Fruitgum Co. OPEN LETTER TO CRIM BOOT COLLECTORS: Wanted: Digital Remaster"ers"? the creator has a masterplan For the non-fans of TCOL and other Belew era KC So Heavy Re: who's who in ET logo Fripp new album? To be Crimson or not to be New MusiKc for ETers: Passengers ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:04:52 -0700 From: "ChainClaw" Subject: NEWS: LA shows announced Hi all, this is my first post, I have been a reader for quite a while and now feel that I have something worthy to contribute. I was at the DGM website recently and discovered 2 new KC tour dates for October they are: 23 Los Angeles, CA - House Of Blues 24 Los Angeles, CA - House Of Blues I would also like to thank all posters for hooking me up to a lot of incredible music that otherwise I may have missed completely. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 13:01:12 EDT From: Treyg at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: The Trey Gunn Band on tour The Trey Gunn Band Mid-West and East Coast Tour Sunday, September 3, 2000 The Music Box 7777 Cass Street Omaha, NE 68114 (402)391-7773 Wednesday, September 6, 2000 Martyr's 1333 N. Bell, Chicago, IL 60622 Chicago IL Thursday, September 7, 2000 Shank Hall 1434 N. Farwell Ave. Milwaukee, WI 53202 (414)332-3061 Sunday, September 8, 2000 TBA Cincinnatti, OH Saturday, September 9, 2000 Magic Stick 4140 Woodward, Detroit MI Monday, September 11, 2000 Milestones 170 East Avenue Rochester, NY 14604 (716)325-6490 Tuesday, September 12, 2000 Iron Horse 135 West Street Northampton, MA 01060 Thursday, September 14, 2000 The Knitting Factory 2nd show 10:30 pm 74 Leonard Street New York, NY 10013 (212)219-3006 Saturday, September 16, 2000 Orion Sound Studios 2903 Whittington Avenue Baltimore, MD Monday, September 18, 2000 House of Blues 96 Winthrop St. Cambridge, MA (617)491-2100 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:40:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Todd Madson Subject: None For You Dear Has anyone read Mike Keneally's interesting review of TCoL on the site "www.noneforyoudear.com"? Mike reviews the disc with aplomb and makes no apologies. Mike's quite the musician himself, so check it out. Only problem: photo is of the last edition of the band. Oops. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:51:02 -0400 From: "Brown, Ken" Subject: Adrian Belew and KC Alfred Bello asks: >>How can anybody even consider or imagine King Crimson without Adrian? Do not annoy anymore!<< Gee I wondered what was said when 80s Crim was unveiled without Wetton? We didn't have this forum back then, but I am sure we would have read countless posts complaining about it. I was there when the new 80Crim came out, it didn't bother me at all that Wetton wasn't in the band anymore. Why? Because Adrian Belew was such an asset to the band's new sound. But, yes, I can consider it, there was KC before Ade. Since I was one of the first to restart this KC w/o Adrian thread I feel after this comment some more of my thoughts are needed. First, I can't say I have read a lot of Ade bashing here. I have seen it before and I have defend Ade in Crim. But of the recent round I can not say I read anyone saying they hated Ade, some maybe are tired of him in the band. And that is their right isn't it? Me personally, I think he help define what 80Crim was about. I like Ade and think he is a world class musician. But that said... In my original post I was ranting about people claiming how TCoL was a bold new direction for Crim. I said I did not think it was a new direction, in order to get one Adrian would have to be replaced. I DID NOT SAY I DID NOT LIKE ADRIAN!!!!!! But considering he is the main vocal point of the band a new direction is not possible with him in it, writing and singing the songs. You can argue that point I am sure, but an Ade song is an Ade song. There certainly nothing wrong with that. It is not meant as a slight to him at all. I think Ade supporters need to get a less paranoid perspective on what people are saying. If somebody doesn't like Ade so be it, why should it bother you? Their dislike or for that matter you like of Ade will not keep him in the band. That will be up to Fripp. So why then do we discuss it? Because this is a digest to discuss things Crim and a band without Ade is certainly a worthy topic. I would hope most on this list realize that the posts here have little or no impact on Crim. Many out there didn't think a Crim record could be made without Bruford! After all he has been in the band longer then Ade. Yet they made one! And a very good CD it is. Gee I'm sorry if I have annoyed you with this, maybe try not being so closed minded in the future. I love the idea of Crim with Bjork or another suitable female singer. That could be a bold new direction. But Crim with Adrian is certainly not a bad thing. After all its all talk.... Keep the Faith (in the Music) ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 00:39:03 -0400 From: Gary Weimer Subject: Re: The Beatles Bands Another close listen to the guitar chords in "One More Red Nightmare" shows some Beatle-esque sounds. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 23:03:52 -0700 From: "Michael Fisher" Subject: RF with PG I have a question that's been burning a moderate-sized hole in my psyche. I had considered taking advantage of the RF face-time I'll have at the upcoming Guitar Craft course to ask him this question directly, but thinking on it further it seems a more appropriate question to post here than to ask there. (I'll save my face time with Robert for more pertinent issues.) Instead, perhaps some of you good aller-wisser folk can fill me in here. I've recently re-acquired a recording of a 1977 Peter Gabriel show from the Roxy in LA. (I once owned this recording on vinyl, years ago; now I have it on CD.) This show was in support of PG's first album, and sports much of the lineup from that record, some of whom later became PG band stalwarts...Tony Levin on bass, Larry Fast on synths, Jim Maelin on percussion, Alan Schwartzberg on drums, Phil Alberg (sp?) on keyboards, Steve Hunter on muscular, full-frontal rock-and-roll guitar...and Robert Fripp also on guitar. RF is introduced as "Dusty Rhodes," and in the introductions PG remarks that "Rusty Dusty is very shy," apparently referring to RF keeping to the wings. (At one point an audient yells out "That's Robert Fripp!", to which PG responds "Shhhh!") There are only two places on this recording where RF is unmistakably present. The first is where he's playing long sustained lead lines over the show opener "Here Comes The Flood." The second is on the full-band version of "Here Comes The Flood", towards the end of the set, where there are high moving arpeggios with the unmistakable stamp of RF's playing. Along with those two, there's another guitar on "Humdrum" that could also very well be RF playing, doing rapidly arpeggiated high chords on the fat closing section. Beyond that, I don't hear any guitars that are identifiably Fripp. What's confusing me is that there are two guitars to be heard in the band throughout this show, and the only guitarists mentioned in the band introduction are Steve Hunter and our pal Dusty. So my question is, "Is that Robert playing those other guitar parts?" If so, they are a major stylistic departure from what would be expected from RF in 1977...I mean, jeez, there's even a wah-wah pedal rhythm guitar playing behind Steve Hunter on "Ain't That Peculiar." Not exactly Frippish fare. - How extensive a role did Robert play in the PG band for this tour? - Is that Robert on those very conventional backing/rhythm guitars? - If that's not Robert, then who *is* playing those other guitar parts? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 20:59:59 GMT From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: New "Red" Remaster - INCREDIBLE Well, I refused to wait as long as 18th September and listened to a CDR version of this release... and whoever says that remastering is pointless will eat their words when this comes out. I used to think Red (the piece) was very boring but now, all the little nuances come out... like the violin for example (which I wasn't even aware played on this song!). The bass has been brought forward to make this track even more powerful than the Double Trio version. Fallen Angel continues to be a classic, but again with much better definition. One More Red Nightmare reveals more hidden parts... the gentle lead in the background is more dominant. The hum at the beginning of Providence is no longer annoying. Starless... well, what can I say? Since this is the greatest piece of music written in all time, it couldn't really get much better... but it did. BUY THIS. Thank you Robert (and whoever else remixed this, it doesn't tell me), Cameron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:14:46 +0200 From: "jeanmichelgay-co" Subject: Remastered 24 bit versions of studios albums What are the differences between the one with gatefold and the other with jewel case ? Are the booklets the same ? Why "Groon" has not been included on the "Poseidon" album (as a hidden track for example) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:55:53 +0200 From: "Girard, Serge [JanBe Extern]" Subject: ET MEMBERS ENQUETE Hi Folks, Is there anybody out there who is willing to make an enquete about the ET-member profile? Possible questions: Year of birth : Horoscope : Female or male : Year you first heard of KC / RF : Number of KC records : Number of KC / RF concerts seen : Total number of records (approx.) : Country you live : Education : high school / university / ... / ... / Income : 0 - 15,000 $ per year 15,001 - 30.000 $ per year 30,001 - 60,000 $ per year 60,001 - 90,000 $ per year over 90,000 $ per year Feel free to adjust, add or correct questions ! The questions I here mentioned are just some examples. P.S. King Crimson is not more than just the continuation of the Beatles where John, Paul, George and Ringo were replaced by new members. Bye Serge Girard. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:41:43 +0200 From: Rainer Straschill Subject: Plane CDs >>Plane - Will Calhoun, Meshell Ndegeocello & David Torn >>Interesting to hear about Plane. An improv band doing shows at the >>Knitting Factory NYC. Are there any CDs or sound files floating around the >>web from these guys. On this matter, Texture444 aka David Torn commented on Looper's Delight (www.loopers-delight.com): > >To: >Subject: OT:Re: some torn concerts >From: Texture444 at aol dot com >Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:14:19 EDT >Old-Return-Path: > >------- > >pv, >s'possible! >the first PLANE concert was recorded to multi-track; >i haven't hadda chance to listen to it, yet..... >best, >dt > ><< Any chance of either of these gigs making it to CD? > >Paolo > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:32 AM >Subject: OT: some torn concerts > >> plane @ knitting factory LA, 10/10 & 10/11 >> meshell ndegeocello/bass, samples, etc >> will calhoun/drungs & electro-thingies >> david torn/the usual assortment >> >> best, >> dt -- Rainer Straschill IZM Fraunhofer-Institut Zuverlassigkeit und Mikrointegration ATIS Analyse und Test Integrierter Systeme Hansastr. 27d, D-80686 Muenchen, GERMANY Tel: ++49-89-54759-031 Fax:++49-89-54759-475 email: rainer dot straschill at izm-m dot fhg dot de ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:41:49 -0400 From: spanky50 at impop dot bellatlantic dot net Subject: friends Anybody know anything about how our boy Bob first met Peter Hammill, Gabriel, Eno, Bowie. Do they still have tea?. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 19:55:08 +0200 From: "Markus Gnad" Subject: Hungarian Music Hi all, hey everybody sleeping? Just a few words.... One of you guys sent me - about two months ago - a list of CDs and LPs available from a shop in Budapest. If you are reading that, would you be so kind to send it once again? Thanks Markus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 19:09:47 -0400 From: "rs" Subject: trey's sound Mr Synder writes in ET #727 >>Reflect on the many meanings of the word "light." TG obviously opted for this sound, for whatever reason's) and constructed it light. When he played with Eric Johnson this last Spring there was plenty of attack from the very same instrument<<< I don't think he "opted for this sound" I remember Trey's dairy at the time stating that he was not there a the final mixing of tCoL and actually expressed concern that his sound was light (I am paraphrasing). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:12:07 -0700 From: "Harris, Dianthe" Subject: looking for a KC song Hi. I wonder if you can help me, I'm looking for a song I always thought was by King Crimson. I think the song is called Skin on Skin. It was popular on the radio and played often a little before or around the same time Elephant Talk and Heart Beat were played. Does this song familiar? I'd love any info you might have on this song. Thanks! Dianthe Harris Licensing Infogrames North America, Inc. 5300 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 500 San Jose, CA 95129 408/985-1700 X 438 408/246-7941 Fax dharris at us dot infogrames dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:43:35 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: Vernon & The Beatles In ET #727, John Murphy sez: "I have also suggested Vernon as an opening act on DGM guestbook. Not only would he be an ideal opener, but I move for him being an addition to KC lineup (can't say that I would strike anyone from the surrent lineup though)." I keep waiting for someone to point out that Reid *did* open for the '90s Crim -- at least when they appeared at the Meriweather Post Pavillion in Columbia, Maryland. An excellent opening act. And David Voci asks: "BTW, does anybody remember the Beatles infamous 'Butcher Cover' album on VeeJay records the from 1963 or 64 featuring the band dismembering little infant dolls? Now that's a Beatles LP worth owning(purely for collectibility purposes). This was truly their most avant garde moment." Whew! The "Butcher cover" did not appear on a VeeJay album (of which there was only one -- the first Beatles album released in the U.S.). It appeared on the YESTERDAY AND TODAY album, from Capitol -- an album which collected together the tracks which had been pushed off the American LPs, which generally had two tracks less than the British versions (and were otherwise different as well). SGT PEPPER was the first Beatles album to appear more or less identically on the U.K. and the U.S. YESTERDAY AND TODAY (which has never appeared on CD) was released just prior to SGT PEPPER. The "Butcher cover" (which may have expressed the Beatles' feelings about the way Capitol dealt with their albums) caused such a scandal that the album was recalled and reissued with a new cover (in many cases pasted directly over the original cover). As for "collectibility," copies of the LP with the original cover have been fetching increasingly high prices (now well into the thou$and$) for the last thirty years. --TW (Dr P) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 03:30:54 GMT From: "Spear man" Subject: Re: Subject: Col. Les Claypool's Fearless Flying Frog Brigade RE: Les claypool's Fearless Flying Frog Brigade Yeah, I saw that show the night before at palookaville in Santa Cruz (august 18th) opened with thela hun ginjeet (king crimson) after a bit, they played the beatles 'taxman' with wynonna's big brown beaver (I think) and another brick in the wall part two vox and ended the first set with shine on you crazy diamond and then the second set was the entire floyd animals album--no they didn't do the snowy white version of pigs on the wing with the big snowy lead in the middle--they did the pink floyd version from animals(bookends for the rest of the album). The sax player is Skeritt from critter's buggin' and of course jay lane and jeff chimenti from (of late) ratdog. Amazing second set--I would definitely say they were better than the pink floyd drought years (watersless) and better than this year's roger waters tour. Although the latter is hard to beat. See 'em if they come near you. --spearman (looking fwd to Oct 20th at the fillmore with KC and the ozric tentacles in November in SF--and still waiting for blue floyd to hit central california) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:10:15 -0400 From: Tony Evans Subject: Re: Subject: 1910 Fruitgum Co. "David Voci" wrote: >Some people give the Beatles the credit for inventing all >of the music that followed after they 'went down a storm in the States'. >This is a true blindness on the part of people that grew up in a society >that spoon fed them this stuff through commercial radio and TV hype. It's more than just radio and TV hype, and the Beatles' influence was far more than merely musical. From 1964 to at least 1968, the Beatles had a tremendous influence on the entire youth culture, and eventually culture in general - I know, because I speak from my own experience. I was 11 when I saw the Beatles for the first time on the Ed Sullivan show in early 1964. At that moment, I knew I wanted to be a rock and roll musician more than anything else, and I'm sure that there were untold thousands of other kids who felt exactly the same way. I believe that everyone is shaped by a handful of life-defining moments, and that's one moment I can definitely point to. There are far too many other examples of the Beatles' impact to go into here, but if you want to gauge their impact, ask anyone who grew up or became an adolescent during the 60s to name something important about that decade, and I'll bet one of the first things they'll mention (if not the first) would be the Beatles. As far as the "commercial radio" comment goes, until the end of the 60s, commercial top-40 AM radio was virtually the *only* broadcast outlet for rock music - there simply was no alternative for the great majority of radio listeners. This was before FM progressive and AOR formats came into being and helped turned AM radio into the wasteland that it is today. No, the Beatles did not invent all the musical forms of the 60s - that would be slighting Motown, Stax/Volt, Beach Boys, Dylan, garage punk bands, and so on - but they really were at the top of the heap in the pop music universe in their heyday, and they did have a tremendous influence on music. While all of their early albums had a big impact, Rubber Soul, Revolver, and especially Sgt. Peppers opened up a lot of people's eyes as to the possibilities in pop/rock music, and even got the attention of a lot of people who had previously dismissed all previous rock music as strictly "teen fodder". The Beatles certainly did radically change the music scene, and the doors that they opened allowed later envelope-pushing groups (such as our beloved King Crimson) to be viable entities. Just for the record, I'm not a Beatles groupie (although definitely a fan), and I think all of their albums have at least a couple of weak songs. I also think that Sgt. Peppers and the albums that followed have too many songs that were self-indulgent efforts betraying the weaknesses that the individual Beatles would later show in their solo careers. >BTW, does anybody remember the Beatles infamous 'Butcher Cover' album on >VeeJay records the from 1963 or 64 featuring the band dismembering little >infant dolls? Now that's a Beatles LP worth owning(purely for >collectibility purposes). This was truly their most avant garde moment. The album in question is the 1966 "Yesterday and Today" album, released by Capitol Records in the US in 1966. This is a compilation of 1965 and 1966 songs left off of Capitol's US album releases. It caused such a scandal when it was originally released with the "butcher cover" that it was immediately withdrawn and replaced with a version with a less-controversial cover photo. Also, as far as it being their "most avant garde moment", that is giving short shrift to "I Am the Walrus" and "Revolution #9". Tony Evans Olasongs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 05:38:41 -0700 (PDT) From: tim gainer Subject: OPEN LETTER TO CRIM BOOT COLLECTORS: Greetings to lovers of all things Crim... I probably shouldn't mention this as a certain Gentleman gigster from Dorset may be reading over my cyber-shoulder (as it were) on this one, but there is a certain "unofficial" release that I'd like to bring to everyone's attention. If, while in your at your friendly local record store (do they still call them that these days?), you're happily schlepping through the KC bin and come across a CD of "The Lurking Fear", AVOID IT LIKE THE BLACK PLAGUE. Now, don't get me wrong; Whereas I don't openly advocate the sale of unauthorised recordings, I still like my boots as much as the next slightly-fanatical-alleged-basement-dweller-type-bordering-on-lunacy-like-worshipping guy. But this recording (KC at the Marquee Club 7/69), although historic in its content, it is SOOOOOOOOO badly recorded...Let me put it this way: Remember "The Beatles Live at the Star Club"? Yeah, it's that bad. It marks the first time in my 38 years of record/cassette/8-track/CD purchasing that I ever RETURNED a bootleg! I opted for the 24-bit remaster of ITWOP instead ("Devil's Triangle" is AWESOME in digital, by the way...but I digress...). Let this serve as 1.)a notice of Consumer Beware 2.) An open argument on the side of all '69 alums to authorise the release of the Hyde Park concert. Let's face it guys...better you get the profits than some BD in Bumphuck, Indiana selling your shows, no? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:00:46 -0500 From: "Loren W. Claypool" Subject: Wanted: Digital Remaster"ers"? In issue 727, Brian Barton wrote: >Hello all. > >I collect "unofficial" recordings of shows from King Crimson, YES, and >other artists. While it's great to have so many shows to listen to, my >enjoyment is tempered somewhat by the knowledge that they don't all sound >as good as they might. Digital remastering is obviously the answer, but >the way things are going financially I don't think I'm going to be buying a >computer for a while and I doubt that most of these performances will be >processed and officially released by DGM. What I would like to find then >is someone with the technology and the know-how to do it for me in return >for getting to add these shows to your own collection. Brian, your audacity amazes me. With RF's well publicized no taping policy, his continual writings on the matter, and the endless discussion threads in ET on the topic, I can't believe: 1) That you would reject the artist's policy and collect the bootlegs; 2) That you would be so brazen to request an accomplice in ET. Basement. Loren ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:05:49 -0400 From: "Stack, Mike" Subject: the creator has a masterplan David Voci said: > Also on Summit, 'The Creator Has A Master Plan'...whose title > is this? I > want to guess Donovan but can't say...I actually have a live > CD by a Dutch > or German band called Sweet Smoke that features a nice jam of > this song but > the writer is not credited on the CD. "The Creator Has a Masterplan" is a song by the stunning Pharoah Sanders, originally available on his album, _Karma_. The piece was composed by Sanders with lyrics by recently deceased vocalist Leon Thomas. This is probably Sanders' best known work, though he may be most widely recognized these days for being part of John Coltrane's later (1965-67) group. Pharoah created quite a splash on the jazz scene with his rather emotional playing, he was certainly IMHO one of the shining lights of the avante-garde movement. Leon Thomas is probably best known for singing 'Creator', and for his yodelling improvisation style. Thomas sang on the original (30 minute long) version of 'Creator' on Sanders' _Karma_, and then recorded it himself later in that year for his first solo record, _Spirits Known and Unknown_ as a lighter, more relaxed piece. The song became a bit of an avante-garde standard when Thomas performed it with none other than Louis Armstrong in 1970. Since then, it's been done by a whole bunch of people. There's a fabulous website, A Love Supreme (available at http://members.aol.com/ishorst/love/) which has information about Sanders and Thomas, as well as a page devoted to "The Creator Has a Masterplan" (http://members.aol.com/bklynjzbr/adeleke/creator.html) and the various performances of that work, for anyone who would be interested. In any event, I would guess it was Mel Collins who introduced the band to 'Creator'. The influence that Coltrane and Sanders had on Collins is obvious in his sax playing. BTW, I saw Sanders last year, and he performed an instrumental version of "The Creator Has a Masterplan" that was just a purely brilliant musical moment. Also BTW, I would suggest that somewhere in the ET FAQ we include information on songs KC covered. I'd be more than happy to submit this or a more detailed discussion of "The Creator Has a Masterplan" for that, as it is one of my favorite songs. Anyone interested in more info about this can feel free to contact me directly. mike mstack at lucent dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:30:09 EDT From: ChalkPie88 at aol dot com Subject: For the non-fans of TCOL and other Belew era KC Dear non-fans, I am writing this for the non-fans of Belew-era KC and/or TCOL, and I will keep it short. Granted everybody is entitled his or her own opinion, some opinions posted on this newsletter are really just plain getting old. It's simple. If you don't like a particular album or performer, then don't listen to it. Very easy. My all-time hero, genius, composer, guitar extraordinare Frank Zappa once said "I'm not a man for all seasons, but I'm doing something right". Perfectly said. As hard-core FZ fanatic that I am, there are few of his albums that I don't particularly care for (such as 'Francesco Zappa'). But I am not bitching about that album to every Zappa fan every second I get. Who the hell am I to have the audacity to judge Zappa?? He's done more for 20th century music than any composer I can think of (maybe with the exception of Varese, Stravinsky, and Webern). What the hell you have all these "Belew Complainers" done for music lately?? Exactly. Nada. So maybe next time you feel like complaining about Crimson or some other amazing music, you should take a trip to your local CD store and pick up some other music like The Dave Mathews Band, or maybe even an N' Sync album. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:33:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: So Heavy Darryl was heard to ask: >the part of "I Want You.." that follows: 'Sheee's so...' sounds very >Crim-like. Indeed. Listen to "I Want You" and then listen to "Fallen Angel" off of "Red". Then listen to the very end of "One More Red Nightmare" (i.e. the non-fade-out). >Excuse me for not being born until the 70's, but which was released >first: ABBEY ROAD or ITCOTCK? I don't hear that much on "Court" that really sounds like "I Want You", but that Beatles track certainly seems to foreshadow a lot of "heavy" 70s rock. Abbey Road was *recorded* in mid-1969, if memory served, but not released until fall. I'll let someone with a more encyclopedic memory for release dates handle this one... --Art ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:47:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Edgar Kausel Subject: Re: who's who in ET logo el"E"phant: Robert Fripp elepha"N"t: John Wetton elephan"T": Bill Bruford "T"alk: Mike Giles ta"L"k: John Wetton tal"K": Ian McDonald The others are from KC's album covers, I think. Now, i'm curious about the one from t"A"lk. Any Idea? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:54:25 -0400 (CLT) From: "Miguel Farah F." Subject: Fripp new album? Hi all. I was browsing at CD Now, and found the album "A Temple in the Clouds" by Robert Fripp, which I hadn't heard about ever. The track list is: 01. The Pillars Of Hercules 02. The Sky Below 03. A Temple In The Clouds 04. The Stars Below This looks very much like a new soundscapes album, but I can't be sure. Do you know anything about it? Thanks. [ Perhaps I can answer this to save some bandwidth. The album "A Temple in the Clouds" is by Jeffrey Fayman & Robert Fripp. You can find full details, including ordering information, at http://www.projekt.com/projekt/product.asp?dept_id=10&sku=PRO00104. I have a copy of this album, and it's superb. The music is based on original soundscapes by RF, processed and augmented by JF. Cheers Toby ] -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel at webhost dot cl #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 04:11:33 -0400 From: "Timothy W Cox" Subject: To be Crimson or not to be I was inspired to write this post after following a link to Roger Waters official site http://www.ca-ira.com/questions.html it seems he is recording a new album and posed a series of questions to his audience for their thoughts and feelings on some issues relating.Check it out because there are some relevant discussions going on. This made me think, What is "Crimson" music? What distinctly separates it from the rest? What do we as listeners feel Crimson music should possess? According to Fripp, "music appears which only King Crimson can play"(Unknown guitar interview). I agree. On four occasions I have taken the 73-74 disc, from the Frame by Frame box set, to parties at the university which I attend (we'll leave it unnamed to protect it's integrity). Each time I forced individuals, who told me they were musicians, to set their beers down and listen in entirety (only 1 female remained). They were amazed. And when I asked them to tell me when this music was created they replied, "It must be from around the 90's or so". When I told them it was from the early 70's their jaws instantly dropped and asked for more information (absolutely no exaggeration)!! These are guys that listen to Korn And Limp Biscuit (sp). This was my reaction when I first heard schizoid and ITCOTCK back in the late 80's and I was in disbelief when I heard the rest of the discography. There is absolutely no nostalgia here guys cause I wasn't even born until the year the band broke up. It just plain rocks!! Now, is TCOL music that only Crim can make? Does it posses crimson qualities? In a 1995 interview Fripp says,"Now, Bill Buford provides a large part of what a crimson drummer needs. Robert provides part of what the guitar player in crimson needs"(Guitar World 1995). If we go strictly by numbers we can look at the 80's Crim as half of what Crim should be. That makes the 2000' Crim a quarter of what it should be. Musically this ratio is different and decreases as the years ache on. Does the new music sound like what crimson should be? Not,does it sound like old Crim, but does it posses that crimson power or magic that was consistent for the first 15 years. The drama and spontaneity? I will defend Adrian Belews talent until death! I have his solo collection and autographed cd's from shows.Oddly, I knew of him before Crim. I didn't even know any of the 80's material until I bought the FBF box when it first came out. But on this recent release I have to concede that he isn't a part of what crimson should/could be. With lyrics like "get jiggy wid it wooah", "I've got the prozac blues", "Shakespeare fishing pole", "Rodney King and OJ" the album sounds silly. I don't even think belew fit in with the 80's band. It was interesting music but did not deserve the title of Crim.I disagree that he is beatlesque, with exception to his ballad stuff, although much of his solo stuff certainly is. His music works wonderfully in his solo material but he is just too plain nice and kooky for Crim. My main problem with the TCOL and other Belew lyrics is the abuse of "I" and "me". It often sounds like Adrian whining and bringing his personal life or feelings into the music.. Crimson lyrics should make the listener imagine the scene like an epic story or haunting poem. Lyrics like, "the wife with choke stone throat", "impaled on nails of ice", "stark sharp glass eyed crack and peel", and "croaking to a neighbor while she polishes a saber" seem more appropriate.Frighten and intrigue me, don't make me whimper over a lost love or think of cotton candy. Can I picture someone else at the mic? Not at this point. He has worked to hard to be a part of crimson (although I have often thought jack Bruce could fill the spot and play bass). Now, Wetton and Lake naturally fit the position. They perfectly complimented the groups aggressive music style., but I fear we will never experience that power again. Or the power of Wallace or even the Buford Wetton combination. There has been talk of women at the mic. It sounds interesting but would it be crimson? I don't think so! Save it for the solo stuff! How about a singer that doesn't play an instrument? Right, what's he going to do while the fellas are jamming? Bang his tambourine like that cat from the Moody Blues!?!? A little on the instruments. Trey is a great musician no doubt about it, but anyone who denies that he sounds like a little Fripp mini me is lying to themselves. Perhaps this is exactly what Fripp wants, some one he can control? His solo material is very good. Third Star is a regular in my apt., but the repetitive Fripp riffery and beat box background can get annoying. On TCOL there is a definite need for a bass with a powerful attack and the warr guitar just doesn't do it. The drums? Pat is a talent as well. I saw him jam along with Bill in in Denver but he should stay away from those toilet drums and start hammering! A busy drummer is a good drummer (I recognize the importance of silence). We need to hear more broken sticks and panting from the stool. There is a definite lack of cymbal action that really gets me down. Mr. Belew's guitar is great as always but his licks sound a little draggy and dull. I never have thought a fender could crunch the numbers, but the solo on coda hints at intensity. And Mr. Fripp? Technique, Technique. and that's it. I fear he has engrossed himself in his religious rhetoric and discipline so much that he's lost the ability to step on the mice. In other words he's scared to let that wood scream in holy terror or diabolical madness. And play a real piano if you want the effect. Give that midi to some bedroom doodler. May the American tour prove me otherwise!!!! True events relating to TCOL (and I write these because I smell dishonesty and brown nosing within ET and GB). Last week I took TCOL to a gathering. My friends laughed at me when they heard Oyster Soup. And I quote "what kinda pansy stuff is this?" and " ha, he said penis". Tonight an old friend called me and before I could speak he shouts, "what the hell is this crimson shit. It sounds like a bunch of pop tunes that could be played by anyone, gchnk gchnk"(I am sad to say he downloaded it off of nipster). But everyone did comment on the intensity of Fractured and Larks and thought TCOL had a complex arrangement. Yesterday I stopped at the local music shop, in the trade bins were 5 TCOL cds and one ITCOTCK (jewel case). It was a sad sight. But who knows, they may be bought up soon by some high schooler who will smell his way to the real goods. I still maintain that TCOL is decent music, but its light and techy, and just not Crimson music. Finally, what ingredients do I feel Crimson has and should posses to legitimately be called Crim? The music should be dark with just the right amount of cracks to let the light in, twisted, powerful, aggressive, there can be humor but it must be perverse or bizarre like the laughter on Lizard, chaotic, complex in sound and absence of sound, angry, improvisational, soaring, emotional, but not sappy, more like starless, exiles, and fallen angel, screeching and thud like. What it shouldn't be? goofy, melancholy, grungy, poppy, sappy, personal, repetitive rhythmic or techno like 80's to present, and no more gadgets, they should stick with the instruments that they have worked so long to master. After all, that is why many of us listen, to hear musicians that have mastered their instrument and craft, not a computer or box doing it for them. I am definitely in the camp of NO CRIMSON IS BETTER THAN A POOR CRIMSON. They can play on but don't call it crimson. "Oh, well why don't you just not listen or buy the albums" Easier said than done and I just might miss out on a minute or two of Crimson that can cause prophetic revelations and helpless drooling! All of the above are my personal ramblings and I seek discussion from the E.T. community on only two of the topics. What is crimson music? and What do we feel crimson music should posses? This was my longest post and I promise the last of this length. I too get tired of eternal rambling and no I wasn't letting off steam Bob, just being honest, and I do except the repercussions of honesty and even the unintentional hypocrisy.. P.S. For the cats who mentioned Vernon Reid, he will be on Jack Bruce's new album (I'm not sure if this one is rock or jazz) and for those who are into Jack's bass playing I saw him a few months ago with Ringo and he is in fine machine gun form. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 02:34:57 +0200 (MEST) From: Florian Reiss Subject: New MusiKc for ETers: Passengers Hi there! In response to Markus' idea to present favourite CDs to the respected, experienced, open-minded and tasteful KC-audience (okay, okay... I'll calm down!), I would like to add my two cents and propose the Passengers' album "Soundtracks Vol. 1". The Passengers (as most of you probably already know) are U2 and Brian Eno (so there you have the connection to RF & KC! ...Toby can put his Flaming Sword Of Justice back on the rack ;O) who join forces with the likes of Luciano Pavarotti and Howie B. I actually discovered this album by watching the Anime "Ghost In The Shell" and trying to find out who is responsible for the stunning piece of music during the ending credits. The album contains soundtracks to several Independent movies (some of them have not even been released yet!) by directors from all over the world like Wim Wenders, Jeff Koontz, etc. Although I didn't know any of the movies except "Ghost In The Shell", the music is really great, ranging from Rock, Classic and Industrial ("One Minute Warning" Just great!!!) to Crim-like Weirdness ("Elvis Ate America")! Give it a chance! flo "I may be totally wrong but I'm a dancing fool!" - Frank Zappa -- Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #728 ********************************