Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #715 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 715 Thursday, 20 July 2000 Today's Topics: Nostalgeurotica / Heroes- A Glimpse Re: Opening Acts Re: Camera, and also a few questions The KConcept Current tour "quality index" Hating KC (at first)...? TCOL Crimson in Mexico City Merchandise, RF CD and so on Any ETer from Portugal? Ze mystery of ze upright bass CGT and Mr. Bungle Prog rock definitions Zappa stage licking No more BjorKc! ...I promise =O) Howard Stern's Losers cover Crimso Bjork !!! was: Bjork ??? Re: Opening Acts Defending the TCoL critics Re: Mr. Bungle touring band sinfield attack of the earnest Crimfan Re: Miles and Don Ellis ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:29:26 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Nostalgeurotica / Heroes- A Glimpse Hi folks! I have to comment on the post of Sandy Starr "My favourite new track, both live and on the TCOL album, is Larks Tongues in Aspic IV. This is epic rock - for me it doesn't get much better than this. As well as being epic, it is also experimental - it reminds me in many ways of the 15-minute track 'Headcleaner' on Einsturzende Neubauten's album Tabula Rasa." Yes, INDEED. One day before KC would have had to hit Linz (Austria), Einsturzende Neubauten played at exactly the same venue. God, this was the greatest concert I have ever seen in my life. I have never ever had heard a song from them and was only curious. It was - brilliant. And they played Headcleaner. I subsequently bought Silence Is Sexy, which is a remarkable piece of work. Sandy, you are right: NOISE RULES! "Finally, some comments on the ongoing 'surely this band could put an arrangement together of something pre 1981?' debate. Nostalgia is pleasant, but I like a band that changes, evolves, and seems to be be standing on its past achievements instead of leaning on them. Writing a remarkable piece like 'FracKtured' which is informed by work from the past is _standing_ on past achievements. Playing 'In The Court of the Crimson King' when it doesn't seem appropriate to the current sound and direction, in order to kindle a warm nostalgic glow, would be _leaning_ on past achievements." Mh-h, mh-h, yeah, yeah, but maybe fails the point (from my point of view). I am NOT Robert Fripp, but I can speak from my own experience. And I think it ends up very similar. The Past Can Be A Bitch, A Dirty, Ugly, Evil Bitch. If the past is something which haunts you, connected with not-so-pleasant memories, then you are likely better off not letting the past be relived again. Let me analyse: For Robert Fripp the King Crimson past was not the best one. How did he state: Most of his life as a working, professional musician is depressing. And INDEED, the 1970s must have been depressing for a man who was ready to give up everything for his idea - for his great love - the Krimson King. And then there are severals (read it in the liner notes to 1976's Young Persons Guide) who were about to let that idea die, or to put it less emotionally, who didn't care about where that idea went. So many left and didn't mind, so many came and went and so many did so little in comparison to what Robert did. Yes, and if the music is what matters most in your life - as in my life, or in Robert Fripp's life - the music connects you with memories and emotions from that past. If you were hurt, you don't want to be reminded. In particular moods, when you feel strong enough, it doesn't matter. Going on stage, playing Epitaph probably recalls the feeling of "the good old days"... and what has happened to the good old days. Just working with the good old days for re-releasing probably is the best alternative. (But then, speaking of hurt: I guess this forum isn't the right place to tell the world how strong the hurt was when the representatives of my greatest love on earth (music) cancelled the tour dates which I was about to visit. No matter what the reason was, the hurt was there.) Emerson, Lake and Palmer "Some of their best stuff was on two much-maligned albums from the 1980s (Love Beach and Emerson, Lake and Powell), and a 1992 comeback album was fairly future-oriented, but the follow-up album to that and the 1990s live performances were entirely nostalgia dominated." Right. ELPowell was their best. Genesis "This is one of the few cases where I concede to the nostalgists. The bizarre rise and fall of this band, from naive whimsy to groundbreaking work in seven years and from groundbreaking work to pop blandness over the following twenty-five years, is a sad tale." Genesis is the second best band in the world. Their musical evolution is maybe sad, but then, it is what the band decided to do. And I hear the progression still - either on "Driving The Last Spike" or on "There Must Be Some Other Way". Although I miss Tony's striking stunning melancholic Mellotron chords. Pink Floyd "Since their reformation in 1987, almost entirely nostalgia dominated. The two studio albums made in 1987 and 1994 have a fair share of future-oriented material, but the corresponding tours, with 10-piece backing band (!), were a kind of (pleasant enough) nostalgia circus." A circus, yes. And no musicians anymore. Sleeping for years and then going on the road is not my sense of being a professional musician. Yes "Showed an admirable flexibility when they completely changed their sound in the 1980s. Lapsed into nostalgia exercises in the 1990s and have remained there ever since, despite occasional glimpses of future-orientation (1994's much maligned album Talk was, in my opinion, one of these)." Talk is their best. Sadly, they didn't perform any of these songs on their latest tours. So... I suppose things may change. Depending on the mood of the KC operator. If the mood is right to enter into a play of Indoor Games, then it will be. (I suppose this was my last post because maybe Robert Fripp will make our ET moderator kill me from the subscribers list after analysing his psyche *smile* *crim*) A sudden change of topics: I had the chance to see Bowie - The Video Collection. As one could expect, Fripp didn't show up in the Fashion video, instead of him there was a guy playing the guitar solos - edited, as one could expect. So long boys and hey!-welcome-girls Markus "The Jerusalem boogie to us perhaps... but to the birds it meant the Supper was Ready." (PG) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:57:35 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: In support of the Shepherd's Bush gig and future-oriented bands In ET #713 Jay Black suggests: > As if you really need one one, but how about Todd Rundgren, XTC, or > Soundgarden for starters? XTC haven't played live for a *looooong* time, with Andy Partridge declaring them a studio band long ago, partly in reaction to stagefright problems IIRC. If you could get them on stage, I think, or at least hope, they'd be headlining. Seen several mentions of the very wonderful Apple Venus volumes in ET lately. Very wonderful for those of you looking for a change every then and now from odd time signature guitar meltdowns! Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:08:35 +0100 From: Sandy Starr Subject: Re: Opening Acts John Ott writes: > Actually the working name of the 1884 band was "Cinema" Camera comes from > the 1980 album Drama and the song "Into the Lens." Oops! Thanks to John and the others who have pointed this out to me. I made the mistake not because I was confused by the album Drama (although I know the song John is talking about), but because I was listening to an album _called_ Camera while I wrote the post. (In case anybody's interested, the album is by Peter Blegvad, Dagmar Krause and Anthony Moore, who have also recorded together under the name Slapp Happy. I recommend the album to the more adventurous listeners amongst you.) He then writes: >The "Drama" album is one of the more overlooked under appreciated albums >It grew of of some sponataneous jamming between Howe and Squire. And I >think has some of the finest playing of those two on it. Tempus Fugit is an >example of that. I agree! I really like the album, and prefer it to its predecessor Tormarto (apologies to the anyone who likes animals, but I think 'Don't Kill the Whale is a low point in the band's career). And then: >Cinema became Yes when John Anderson joined in that project. Quite >frankly I am not that fond of the Trevor Rabin era Yes records. But Adding >Anderson's vocals to the cinema material is what made it a Yes album and the >reason for the change. Hmmm. I agree that Anderson's joining the band is what _prompted_ the name change, but I don't agree that sticking Anderson on the music is what automatically makes it Yes. When Yes were a seperate entity to Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe, they had a legitimate claim to the name Yes. 'The More We Live, Let Go', from the mixed quality Union album, has little or no involvement by Anderson and sounds more like the essence of Yes to me than a lot of pieces with Anderson on them. Before this turns into a Yes mailing list, there's a broader point related to this, which applies to King Crimson too. A name is just that - nominal - and the assigning of a name is fairly arbitrary. This is not to say that a name is meaningless; on the contrary, it has all the _more_ meaning for being somewhat arbitrary. Robert Fripp has ressurrected the name King Crimson at least twice (1981 and 1993) because of a 'moment of seeing' that is precise and yet intangible. ProjeKct X consists of the same musicians as KC, but because of its naming, we are invited to conceive of it as a distinct entity (at least on the Heaven and Earth recording - on the recent tour, the distinction is a little looser). Finally, I have two questions that I was wondering if anybody could help me with. Apologies if these have been dealt with on ET before. 1) I've been listening to both the Islands remaster and to KKCC9, Live at Summit Studios. (Boy, I love this version of the band - tslk about underrated!) I know that the Summit Studios performance was recorded on March 12 1972, but I don't know when Islands was recorded - I assume later, because Sailor's Tale is the only Islands track on it. Can somebody tell me roughly when Islands was recorded, before or after Summit Studios? 2) I'm intrigued by the KC tribute album Schizoid Dimension, and thinking about getting it - sometimes a cover version can tease something you never saw before out of the original (I could list examples, but I'd be here all day). Does anybody own it, and if so, is it any good? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:55:10 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Re: Camera, and also a few questions Good evening. A few comments. From Greg Forster's post to the remarkable newspaper Elephant Talk: "There's little chance of hearing the same concepts, sounds and styles repeated ad-nauseam from album to album." Naja, maybe. But I prefer saying no. There are little concepts that repeat through the Krim Eras: There was that great opening track with lots of brass and crazy noise on "In The Court Of The Crimson King" and "In The Wake Of Poseidon". Leave off the brass and add some more noise and crashing guitars, this continues on "Starless And Bible Black", "Red", "THRAK" and "The ConstruKction Of Light". As a friend of mine said: "There is always that dark keyboard and brass passage on each KC album. It seems like a KC theme." Leave it to discussion whether keyboards or not, but it sounds true. And we have sort of a "hit" on most albums, a sort of "key line" that is supposed to be the number which, hmm... should kick you into each album. The starter to all these crazy adventures. Mind me explaining? - 21st century schizoid man - Pictures of a city - Ladies of the road - Easy money - The great deceiver - Elephant talk - Three of a perfect pair - Sex sleep eat drink dream - Prozakc blues ...as I said, not on every album. All this just to say that there are "some" basic concepts on the albums. But I INDEED think that they are created unconsciously. They just come on over. Greg continues with: "The Projekcts prepared us, in a way, for TCOL. Research and development, I think Fripp called it. TCOL is the Projeckts' off-spring." Yes, should be obvious to everyone. But then, not everyone has access to the ProjeKcts (not every record store has it, not everyone buys 4 CD-Sets etc etc). Leads to the thought that occurred to the same friend of mine as stated above: "It's sad that KC is becoming sort of elite music. The fan who goes into a shop and wants to buy the new Yes and the new KC CD, AND ONLY DOES THAT, will never get to read DGM diaries or explore the KCCC, learn about house rules, BTV etc." From my point of view - and I think this is exactly the KC-wanted point of view - the ProjeKcts and especially ProjeKct X ARE the new works. This is the real. As same as it was in 1973/4. The live shows were the real new King Crimson coming, and not the albums. Once you have discovered the ProjeKcts, there shouldn't be much trouble with TCOL. And he-who-is Albert Oller states: "Bjork is interesting, but I think another worthy consideration for collaboration or opening act (or just good listening for KC fans) is Siouxsie Sioux from The Creatures." OK, we have a new thread. Female vocalists for KC. I suggest: - Anna Domino - Anne Clark - Annie Lennox - and the remarkable Sarah Cracknell Just to prove my music knowledge (smile). If only Klaus Nomi was alive... And later he says: "Fripp mentions something about playing older songs. Please forgive me if I remember incorrectly, but I think that he said that he would love to play "Starless" again because the melody is so beautiful, but the time for that song has passed, or just isn't right. Also, if you have the chance to see this video, I think you would see what a sensitive, thoughtful person Fripp can be." 1) Careful With That Axe??? Floyd song??? 2) Fripp is ULTRA-sensitive, yes. In connection with his feelings about playing old songs and being photographed. (I posted on both topics) It seems that if you have that extra portion of sensitivity you are being misunderstood and hurt even more than normal people. Markus "Phil?" "Sorry man." "There's people out there!" (PG & PC, 1973) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:57:23 -0400 From: "Mark D. White" Subject: The KConcept I wrote (and Toby responded): >Has anyone thought of keeping track of the recent concert reviews, and >maybe compiling a "quality index" of the shows (as arbitrary as it may be), >so when all the live CDs are released, there would be a nice reference for >those of us who just want the best couple concerts from the tour, rather >than buy the whole set (I'm sure there are many here who like to buy the >whole set, but who may not be able to swing it financially). > >[ Good idea, Mark. Why don't Fritz (see previous post) and you hook > up and see if you want to do it? Maybe anyone else interested could email > Fritz and Mark direct? -- Toby ] I'd be happy to gather and tally the responses - in fact, I already got one! If you can, try to rate the show from 1-10, if possible, so tallying the results will be easier. (If anyone has any other suggestions, feel free to suggest them.) Send them to whitemd at earthlink dot net, and please make the subject of the email "KC Concert Index" if you can. Later, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:46:16 EDT From: GenoTT at aol dot com Subject: Current tour "quality index" I have to wonder about all the comments from people saying they learned to appreciate TCoL after hating it at first. Am I just about the only person who liked TCoL on hearing it the first time? I greatly enjoyed it. "ProzaKc" actually made me laugh out loud, "FraKctured" had me pounding my steering wheel, and "Larks' IV" gave me shakes. I've never actually hated any Crimson album (unless you count a mild distaste for Larks' Tongues) at first listen. There have been a couple -- the ProjeKcts and Discipline mainly -- that I was unsure of at first, but it's been more of an apathetic feeling. In those cases, from past experience with KC I knew I just had to give them a couple more listens. The only times I've actively disliked an album at first (by any artist I like) have been the times I formed a specific expectation in my mind of what it would be like. Naturally, they don't often cater to my tastes.. so I quickly learned to drop the habit. Does anyone else feel this way, or does everyone always truly expect to hate new Crim this much? I'm curious... -g ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:35:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Chelsea Snelgrove Subject: Hating KC (at first)...? Greetings All, It's amazing to me the number of people who continue to submit posts complaining about TCOL, which is, IMHO, the best KC music at least since Discipline. Yes, it's different from what the band has done in the past, but isn't that a GOOD thing? As great as they were at the time, would we really want another rehashed version of LTiA or Discipline released every few years? I certainly wouldn't want the band to become so redundant, and I certainly don't think anyone should blame the musicians of KC, or any other band, for wanting to change and progress. Would anyone really prefer that KC become just another dinosaur band endlessly retreading their bygone "greatest hits" for an audience of the nostalgic faithful, rather than continuing the process of exploration and musical innovation with which the band began 30 years ago? And TCOL is quite innovative. Truly, the aural textures which the band now uses are somewhat removed from "rock", but then, so much the worse for rock. Who knows what direction Fripp and the band may take in the future? If we (or they) could predict what their future course will be, it would not be half as interesting. I agree with the previous poster who noted that TCOL is much more consistent than past records, in that Belew's songs seem much better integrated into the overall band sound, whereas on earlier records they always seemed to sit a bit uncomfortably beside the instrumental pieces. The same, frankly, can be said for the more traditionally-structured songs on the mid-'70's records ("The Night Watch", "The Great Deceiver", "Easy Money," etc.) With TCOL, Fripp and the band have once again proved that they are musically fearless. Would that all of their fans were equally so. C.H. Snelgrove ====Ars longa vita brevis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 00:02:19 -0400 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: TCOL I have managed to download the live Mexico City '96 .wma file, record it as a wav, split the wav into tracks, and then convert the tracks into mp3's. This week I uploaded these files to an iDrive. For those of you frustrated by the various technical barriers that have prevented you from hearing this stuff, you ought to be able to download the files (as mp3) from there. Note that I did not fade out and in between tracks; the idea is you can download all 12 files and burn to cd using DAO, and it should sound seamless. Before I provide the info for accessing these files, please promise to do something for me. The Mexico City download was originally made available for free as a sort of "dry run" of BootlegTV. In order to access the download, one was required to register with BootlegTV. Therefore, I ask that you uphold your end of the bargain as originally proposed-- if you have not yet registered at BootlegTV, please be a sport and do so before downloading these tracks. Now then, here is how you access these mp3 files: 1. Go to www.idrive.com 2. On the left hand side, where it says "Visit an I-Drive", type in: wwepiphany 3. The files are in a folder called "shared", which is in a folder called "Storage". You may have to click on "storage" to get to "shared". 4. Open up the folder and follow instructions for download. As of midnight Tuesday/Wednesday New York time, I-Drive was down for maintenance. Please let me know (private email please) if you were able to access and download the files; I'm hoping that by the time this hits E-Talk, the thing will be back up. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:32:48 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Crimson in Mexico City Summer - Sun! This morning's listening while driving to work: Pictures Of A City from my gold-gatefold-japan-edition of ITWOP - at highest volume, naturally. So hello all. I'd like to know if anybody knows an address where I can get RF/KC MERCHANDISE - and by that I mean articles like posters, tshirts as well as mousepads and other strange things. I'm sure some company offers this within the Eighth Continent. Then: I found a Robert Fripp CD called Kan Non on amazon.co.uk (amazon.de, com and co.uk offer different records - hope you know). Does anybody know what this record is? (It's an Italian). [ Sounds like the bootleg of the RFSQ, normally known as "Kan-non Power", recorded at TFM Hall, Tokyo, 11 Nov 1992 -- Toby ] And then: This goes out to all those numerous Elephants who emailed me re: my Zappa question: Today I got my copy of The Real FZ Book. Hope this helps me investigate the noise! Thank you all. Markus "We shall now tune our mellotrons and attack culture again." *smile* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:58:35 +0400 From: MVolgin at IBS dot RU Subject: Merchandise, RF CD and so on Are there any fellow ETers in Portugal? I'm in a big hurry for getting there, but there's a trouble with getting visa: tour agency're very expensive, otherwise I should have either an invitation or a document about a hotel reservation. Anyone could help with the invitation (if it's not too complicated to do) or an info about a cheap hotel which can fax back a paper about the fact of a room reservation. In turn, I promise any possible help in visiting Russia if anyone wishes ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 06:27:33 -0700 (PDT) From: jan geerts Subject: Any ETer from Portugal? Hi all, I just can't figure this one out : I never read on ET, DGM, or cd's that Tony Levin has been a part of P2. Then what is his Steinberger doing on a P2 pic (I noticed this on the large version of that pic on 'Deception Of The Thrush')? Ta Sound Mind ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:42:17 EDT From: "James Russell III" Subject: Ze mystery of ze upright bass Recently I happened to be watching my " local forecast " segment on The Weather Channel when I began to hum along with the background music. I realised then it was none other than a cover of " Classical Gas " performed by The California Guitar Trio. I wonder if they are aware of this? In the past I have heard them used as the one of the many musical segue pieces on NPR. Also earlier this year I had the privilege to attend one of their shows in Newport, R.I. and was even more fortunate to have a question answered by Paul Richards during their intermission. I asked what their musical influences were and what music they listened to these days. Among Dick Dale, The Ventures, Bach, and The Mermen was mentioned avant garde experimental music composer and saxaphonist John Zorn. Some of John Zorn's collaborations include Fred Frith, Kronos Quartet and of course production of the 1991 (commercially available) debut album by Mr. Bungle . But this is supposed to be a digest about Crimson so i'll just close by saying that I personally love TCoL and am very happy that Fripp and Co. can still put forth talented and refreshing music consistently. Your big biker guy in the front row singing along to Frame By Frame ... Farx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:35:59 +0000 From: Jeremy Robinson Subject: CGT and Mr. Bungle Good to see that the post I sent a few days ago on serious critical writing on prog rock has produced a discussion of various bands and whether or not they can be classed as 'progressive'. As to a definition of 'prog rock', that's difficult, but here are some suggestions for aspects of what might constitute 'prog rock': White & masculine & middle-class music (it's also made and consumed primarily by white, middle-class Anglo-American and European men) Indulgent (musically) Complex (technically and musically; 9/8 in 'Supper's Ready', for ex)) Use of 'classical' music Multi-part songs (often taking up a side of vinyl) Synthesizers & new technology 'Concept' albums and rock 'operas' ('Tommy', 'The Wall', etc) Pompous/ pretentious Intellectual (and elitist) Occasionally willfully obscure (Jon Anderson's lyrics) A- or non-political (reactionary, dubious politics) Intense (King Crimson were 'heavier' (and still are) than any heavy rock band) Po-faced (prog took itself very seriously) Self-conscious Themes from mythology, folklore, fantasy, literature, poetry Luxurious artwork, covers, designs, logos (Roger Dean, Hipgnosis) Extravagant (Wakeman with 37 keyboards, for ex, or the amazing sets; 'Spinal Tap' anyone?) Expensive (huge tours & sets & crews, etc. There was a lot of money around in the 1970s, enabling lavish recordings and tours). Lightshows, lasers, inflatibles, films, dry ice, costumes, dancers & other multimedia at concerts Anti chart pop, anti releasing singles (most proggers favoured albums not singles - triple vinyl, too, if possible) I know these apply more to supergroups, or any band really, than the narrower term 'prog rock'. Jeremy Robinson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:47:32 +0200 From: "Frits Jurriens" Subject: Prog rock definitions >Also, I know that Frank also was known to stop concerts, usually due to >people throwing things on stage. I believe there was a show in LA, where he >stopped the show and suggested that the offending audient come up on stage >and LICK the projectile off the stage. Audience pressure being as it was, >the poor stooge had no alternative if he wanted to go home alive. I have a tape of it ! If only there was a newsletter as good as ET on FZ ! Does anyone know of an FZ newsletter? Should we start one? Also: Mike Keneally as a support act for the KC north-america tour is a great idea ! KC not touring in Holland was a bad idea, sob, sob !!! Does anyone know why? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:04:17 -0400 (EDT) From: flohansson at hockeymail dot com Subject: Zappa stage licking Hi there! Seems like I caused some trouble with my initial post about Bjork. But as I said, it was just a "silly little post" and I have never seriously considered the possibility that Bjork should or could become a member of KC! That's really absurd. I think both, Bjork and KC, are equally great in their individual talents and achievements and can exist very well besides each other and never have to play or perform a single note together. I would also NEVER think of her music as "commercial" or even compare Bjork with Britney Spears! (Holy Mackerel!) I hope this will finally end the BjorKc-thread, although I received some nice emails about the topic and would like to thank the writers again for their support! flo p.s. Funny how fast some people get upset... =O) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:25:25 PDT From: "Jon Benfield" Subject: No more BjorKc! ...I promise =O) Did anyone but me catch Howard Stern's band "The Losers" performing In The Court of the Crimson King? Is HILARIOUS and strikingly true to the original. I find it extremely ironic that he woul choose this song, though it does reinforce the "king of all media" image, though he could have played Hall of the Mountain King by Uriah Heep. I have an mp3 of the performance if anybody wants it. You can send me an email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:28:07 -0400 From: Edward Banatt Subject: Howard Stern's Losers cover Crimso >>It's pretty funny to see how bjork is being discussed >> here days after I finally got off my butt to get her latest CD. > >Actually (and with all due respect) it is not funny at all. Bjork does >have some talent and has a certain following. That being the case, however, >does not justify the premise of this entire discussion. To the point, I >can't imagine Bjork doing King Crimson vocals ...... Man, then you've never been to a Bjork concert. I can imagine anyone (with a fair amount of talent imho) at the mic. What will you do if Bob has Toyah front the band? Is she a creature too? :) I think it's time for another change. A female vocalist. How about a duet with Adrian, or some harmonies? >Perhaps the problem is that KC is a middle-aged band playing young music >(revisited fragments of past works not withstanding). No disrespect to >older fans, but it's a fact that many people get set in their ways with >years, and this includes audients, musicians and their music. I'm thrilled >that KC as a mature band is still a bunch of uncompromising, adventurous >freaks. Maybe they have "outhyouthed"some of us! ;-) Amen. I hope they continue to experiment, and disappoint the old fogies. There's always nostalgia. :) Eddie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:34:50 EDT From: MongoBoy at aol dot com Subject: Bjork !!! was: Bjork ??? In a message dated 07/17/2000 11:18:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: > Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 11:53:10 -0400 > From: "Jay Black" > Subject: Opening acts > > As if you really need one one, but how about Todd Rundgren, XTC, or > Soundgarden for starters? Good suggestions however, XTC does not tour an Soundgarden broke up. The Trey Gunn Band would smoke! Get the new album if you haven't done so. "The Joy of Molybdenum" ML ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:37:28 -0700 From: Rob MacCoun Subject: Re: Opening Acts >Perhaps the problem is that KC is a middle-aged band playing young music >(revisited fragments of past works not withstanding). No disrespect to >older fans, but it's a fact that many people get set in their ways with >years, and this includes audients, musicians and their music. I'm thrilled >that KC as a mature band is still a bunch of uncompromising, adventurous >freaks. Maybe they have "outhyouthed"some of us! TCoL defenders keep suggesting that the critics just don't "get it" -- that this is challenging, cutting edge stuff and we shouldn't impose our stuffy expectations. I agree that past albums (dating myself as an old fart with that word) often took time and effort to fully appreciate. But as I read the criticisms in ET -- and critical comments are surely fair game; let's not make KC/Fripp into sacred cows -- many are complaining that the new CD is too derivative of older material, rather than being too challenging. Especially after the amazing new material that was coming out of the Projekcts--especially P4, P3, and PX. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:32:12 -0700 (PDT) From: paul willette Subject: Defending the TCoL critics Hi, this is just to clarify the current lineup for Mr Bungle's touring band. Mike Patton - vocals, ect. Trey Spruance - Lead Guitars, Keys, all programming, (this is a 40 channel live band!) and back vox Trevor Dunn - Bass Guitar, backing vox Dan Heiflitz - Drums, backing vox Bar McKinnon - Keyboards, sax, flute, back vox This completes the lineup of the band (since 1989). Now the touring band. These are the guys who have been/or are currently on the tour for the "California" album. James Rotundi - Backup guitars, keys, and vox William Winant - Percussion, backing vox (US tour only) Ches Smith - Percussion, drums, backing vox (Currently replacing Willie for Euro tour) Yes, there are seven guys on stage at all times. Hope this helps. Best, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:37:49 -0400 From: "Matthew K. Smith" Subject: Re: Mr. Bungle touring band Hi Crimsonians: I was going thru the KC bin at the cool CD shop here in Kent -TIME TRAVELER - today preparing to break down and buy TCoL/Thrak/Vrooom, because the tapes I made from my brother are now inadequate, since I now love this new stuff. Bugger you naysayers. While looking I found an apparent reissue of Pete Sinfield's STILL, w/ a modified title STILLUSION. It looks like the original but his picture that was on the back is now on the front, and the EXCELLENT painting "The Friend", by Sulimith Woolfing(?) is missing. Back just has the titles. Has it been omitted for royalty reasons; is it inside? I loved this painting of a dragon cradling a little girl in its mouth. I also liked this album, and I did NOT expect it to sound like KC when I bought it, any more than Mc&Giles. At any rate, aside from the painting in question, what is Pete up to these days - or the past 25 years for that matter? How does he support himself? Is there anything more behind his split from Fripp that wasn't previously stated? Also, who is Richard W. Palmer-James, really. And don't just say he was an English poet. Who the hell is he? What was his relationship w/ that KC incarnation? Did they tell him what they wanted? Did he come into the studio once a year and dump a sheaf of poems on them? Is there a collection of his works that include KC lyrics? If no one knows the answer to this, perhaps he was a pseudonym for Wetton. (But he did put his name on One More Red Nightmare. I'd love to hear that ONE on the new tour, but it'll never happen.).... and to all those buying remasters, I'm taking donations of old BEAT, ToaPP & Lizard. Will provide postage and handling costs. Other things: There is an apparent relationship between much of Sinfield's KC lyrics and Tantric Buddhism. I wrote a paper on it once. Trevor Rabin did the soundtrack to the recent, excellent thriller "Deep Blue Sea". Jack Daniels mixes a LOT better with XANAX, than PROZAC, especially if one does not want to remember the experience the following day. matthew at Kent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:53:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: sinfield > From: Doug McKee <30-years at mail dot com> > Subject: Re: Bjork ??? > > In ET #813, Jon Swinghammer mentioned... > > >It's pretty funny to see how bjork is being discussed > > here days after I finally got off my butt to get her latest CD. > > Actually (and with all due respect) it is not funny at all. LOL. Pardon us. > Bjork does > have some talent and has a certain following. That being the case, however, > does not justify the premise of this entire discussion. To the point, I > can't imagine Bjork doing King Crimson vocals anymore than I could imagine > Britney Spears (God help us!!!) or some other creature of commercialism in > this diminished yet still critical role. Ye gods, are you actually equating Britney Spears' cookie-cutter product with Bjork's weird melange? Have you *heard* Bjork's work? It's not really the sort of stuff a 'creature of commercialism', as you so pompously put it, would create. Bjork would be a fascinating addition to KC, though it'll never happen. We'd more likely see Fripp sitting in on a Bjork album,as he did on Bowie's in the 70's. -S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:51:41 -0500 From: Craig Subject: attack of the earnest Crimfan Well, "Dr. Progressive", I can partially agree with you............. >Miles Davis >was an imperfect human being like most of us (and, in real life, an >asshole). I`ve never met a "perfect one", have you? 8^) I have to agree there, (for the most part, since I`m currently reading his extremely blunt/gritty autobiography*), however, it`s not him personally, it`s his music that deserves the adulation. If you think not, that`s your right, of course Maybe if you had ever worked with him? Maybe if his music was an 'epiphany' like it can be for so many others? I could run down a laundry list of seminal historic figures in contemporary music who would agree w/ me. (Quincy Jones, Carlos Santana, John McLaughlin, Herbie Hancock, Gil Evans,Wayne Shorter, etc, etc, etc...) > Most of his claim to fame rests on his associations with other >(better) musicians, starting with Charlie Parker.... Hogwash/ Same story, fella. Bird was just as big (even nastier) an asshole than Miles could be as a person, but he was IT on saxophone! NOBODY could play like that! Their personal lives are another matter. >.....and continuing with Gil >Evans, in whose apartment the BIRTH OF THE COOL sessions were born. Yeah, we know. I`ve heard nothing but wonderful things about Gil, on the other hand. He (Gil) has tremendous adulation for Miles, though. I can quote numerous statements, but......... (too much work to find them). >these comparisons of Davis with Ellis miss the real point, OK They were not mine. >his *early sixties* recordings. Specifically, ...HOW TIME >PASSES... (1960, Candid CCD 9004), and NEW IDEAS (1961, New >Jazz/Prestige >Original Jazz Classics OJCCD-431-2). These albums, made by a quartet (the >first) or a quintet (the second), featuring Jaki Byard on alto sax and >piano, are important albums of experimental jazz which drew upon serialism >(12-tone music) and used complex time signatures (note the title of the >Candid album), Thanks for the info. Never heard `em,... will check into............. I`ll wager they can`t compare to a prime Miles recording, though. 8^) (I never cared for serialism much). ~C *Strangely, there is one glaring ommission, a major figure in jazz history excluded from Miles` book. Guess who. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #715 ********************************