Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #713 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 713 Monday, 17 July 2000 Today's Topics: Re: Basement dweller strikes in Houston! Silverhead Of Wisdom Looking At Me David Cross Guestbook Re: Mr. Bungle cd-r featuring jamie muir I Had A Day Dream Re: No More Magic? Zappa's Filthy Habits Greasy ramp Re: Don Ellis` soundtrack to The French Connection 1971 Fripp's playing...then and now... The problem with TCOL Bjork Re: trower New David Torn Mailing List and Website Re: Camera? Know what you have The Construkction Of Light who decides what gets played Unexpected? "odd" time signatures Opening acts Other Musicians; Older songs; Money; Funniest ET post ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:17:46 +0100 From: "Jonathan Pinnock" Subject: Re: Basement dweller strikes in Houston! Don Lawrence wrote: >My trusting wife left four of our favorite CDs in the >vehicle. >XTC Apple Venus vol1 >XTC Apple Venus vol2 >PeterGabriel's Greatest >TCOL >Guess which one of the four was Stolen! Clearly, times have changed. Back in 1984, my entire CD collection was stolen, apart from (you guessed it) my sole King Crimson CD, "Three of a Perfect Pair". My then girlfriend took this to be the ultimate critical evaluation of KC. Sad to say, 15 years of marriage have failed to change her opinion ... Jon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 14:54:53 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Silverhead Of Wisdom Looking At Me Hi Here! Of course, this topic has been discussed long ago, but still. Some of you once talked about that music, respectfully KC music, has to work on you, and someone pointed out that it usually takes him half a year to accept and learn to love a new KC record. Lots of stuff been said about that. From my yesterday's experience: I caught me playing the whole Seconds Out - Genesis Live album. It's been at my home now for about Five Years (...what a surprise...) and I always considered it as being the worst Genesis album of all times. I don't know why, it's something wrong out there... my body was twisting and... well, without a doubt, things changed and it became my fav Gen album within a mere half hour. Well, maybe not because the music "grew on me". Lots of records I buy have to stay in their boxes for a long time. But yesterday I had the feeling that that record called me and that I simply answered the (head)phone. And I was willing to talk and listen. BTW Speaking of Genesis - I checked out that paperlate page and it's all in Italian, and seems to have changed to a prog news list. And last time I checked the official Genesis page there were only interviews about their latest best of album. Where to find the real Genesis News List? Markus "I got sunshine in my stomach Like I just rocked my baby to sleep" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 15:06:51 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: David Cross Guestbook Hi "Hippies"! Well, of course, it's not my turn to make that announcement but it certainly would give great contratemporary (I like that term) music a wider spread. On www.noisy.co.uk our man David Cross offers his guestbook. So far just a few have posted. I know that there are lots out there who like his music - as me - and I would love to see some more postings there. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not DC's spokesman but I honor his work very much, and for those of you still seeking to explore horizons, this is some great challenge. See you there! Markus PS David don't shoot me! "Oh my world Took the man Made him boy" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 09:14:59 -0500 From: v-dorje at ticnet dot com Subject: Re: Mr. Bungle > Mr. Bungle is one of my favorite 90's bands and I don't >think they've ever had any guest musicians besides string-instrument >players. Not so. Last time they came through here they added an older gentleman (who is apparently a classically trained percussionist who does alot of avant stuff (Cage, Varese, Stockhausen etc) *GREAT band*! ~Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 05:56:26 PDT From: "david teledu" Subject: cd-r featuring jamie muir dear crimson fan about 10 years ago jamie muir sent me some tapes of him talking about things. i recorded a 10 minute piece using some of this as material. he agreed it could be released. most of this piece is now available on "Acronyms" volume 1 (professional quality cd-r), as well as other tracks featuring some improvised jazz etc. by nottingham musicians. available in the uk mailorder for UKP 7.50 including p & p from : axis distribution p.o. box 126 NOTTINGHAM NG7 6BJ (chq payable to axis distribution) i would allow about 60 aural seconds of it to be put on your excellent website (NOT the entire copyrighted piece}. i got r.fripp's autograph at a league of gentlemen gig (at first he refused, then he said "only if it means something to you" and so he signed a photo of himself on a motorbike in 72 - he said it was a silly photo). other memories of seeing kc c.80 and fripp solo c.84. cheers, david ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 07:29:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Basile Subject: I Had A Day Dream Dreaming about a warm-up band for the North American gig (Pittsburgh Please!)I feel there were many great sugestions in ET! May I suggest TEN Seconds, or The Tenth Planet( both I heard of on ET first!). The Day Dream: Now if I hit a lottery, I would sponser a DMG festival, with the above, and many DMG artist. Earthworks, Tony Levin Band or BLUE, David Cross,California Guitar Trio, ect. would be headliners at the main stage. Maybe Wettons Band could do Starless,as in the past. At the Smaller tents, could be Glen Pavone and The Cyclones, Tenth Planet, other Crafties, Beer For Dolphins, ect. But on the main stage before Crimson,I would suggest, as the promoter/sponser, that RF does a half hour or so of soundscapes,Frippertronics, or what ever he wanted, and paid handsomely for it. Any one caught with a camera, or recording device, would be band from all frippfestivials for life. Warmly, Basile By The Three Rivers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 11:09:06 -0500 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Re: No More Magic? (Starless_Wreck wrote:) >King Crimson has no more magic. "the construktion of light"? >what is it? A half hearted attempt to simply give us (those of us who have >patiently waited 6 years) something new to spend our hard earned and >heartfully given money on? After hearing this disaster I now have the >"prozac blues". As I'm sure many who like TCOL must wonder, what exactly were YOU expecting the new Crimson to sound like? For a start I have a hard time seeing how the music on TCOL is "simply" anything. Do you really think this music is a "simple" dumping of product for cash? I feel for ya being let down in some way, but I read the descriptions of the recording and writing in progress and I have to say that really it turned out EXACTLY as I had imagined it to. >It's one thing to reinvent, but to blatantly recycle. Nothing on it is blatantly recycled other than a few basic ideas of parts. True the opening chord of Lark's 4 is close to the chord used in Lark's 2, but the polyrhythmic treatment comes more out of Guitar Craft's influence. And then of course there is 10 more minutes worth of music in Lark's 4 that is brand new. The same with FraKctured. I seem to be one of the few who never really thought that the original Fracture was not that well written. For me FraKctured takes a fast picking pattern which on the surface resembles Fracture (though I'm sure the notes are different) and completely rewrites everything else. Personally for me FraKctured is much better written than the original was. > I'm not saying these things simply because i feel cheated, but I say this >because we have been sold a work of some disconnected impostor posing as our >beloved KC. Yeah, actually you are! You DO think for some reason you were cheated. You take as a given that the rest of us reading your post should somehow agree with your statement that "We have been sold a work of some disconnected impostor posing as our beloved KC." If WE don't agree with your explanatory statement then all we are left with is that you think you were cheated. >The Japanese may be soaking up this psuedoKC these days, but >dont be fooled. This is nothing more than "ProjeKCt X" as in "Brand X". This sounds almost racist, there big guy :-). What does being Japanese have to do with somehow lacking the intellect not to be fooled by your so-called rip off version of King Crimson? >if (fripp, bruford, wetton, and cross) we're together under the name >"Blamo" it would still be KC to me (the real deal). Well, you're clearly misguided then at this point. How are Wetton, Bruford, and Cross the "real" deal? You maybe LIKE this version of King Crimson the best but this particular group of people are no more valid a version of Crimson than the original '69 band. Those fans of the band who love mellotrons and saxophones I'm sure never thought of the 70's band as the "real" deal. Its always worth remembering that your opinions are not facts. >They have the same name just like Fender (fripp), but not the tone, feel, >playability, craftsmanship, heart, or magic. Feel, heart, magic are all a matter of opinion but to say the new band lacks craftsmanship and playability is pretty much sour grapes. This same group could surely play the music of ANY other version of Crimson. Chances are their technique is ABOVE that of earlier bands. I realize this doesn't make the music better to everyone, but you should at least respect how difficult and complex this music is. Nobody got lazy when they wrote and recorded this album. >Its time for us to realize to our heartbreaking dismay that a beautiful >thing that we all loved is now dead. Why do you have the need for the rest of us to agree with you? And why do you assume we do? You're entitled to all the opinions you want to have, but you're not a Crimson prophet sent from God or anything. We don't need you to make us realize ANYTHING. If anything, realize yourself that not everyone agrees with your opinions. >I will be unsubscribing soon and shaking the dust from my sandals and >hoping that I may again one day see a thing as beautiful and magical as what >King Crimson once was. Good luck, but chances are Crimson will remain high tech and sounding much like it does today. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:11:19 EDT From: MarkJX at aol dot com Subject: Zappa's Filthy Habits In a message dated 7/14/00 6:04:33 PM Mountain Daylight Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: > I remember eagerly awaiting Zappa's '88 tour to make its way west, > following it's progress thru the mid west & east coast and on to Europe > before disbanding for good before ever making it to the West coast. > Obviously different circumstances prevailed (internal problems with Zappa's > band), but the sad feeling would be the same for many of us who've been > reading the diaries and following the progress of the Euro tour. The > impression I get is the negativity is outweighing the positivity of touring > and touring may stop as a result. > You just reminded me. I too was crushed when FZ cancelled the tour short of CA. Also, I know that Frank also was known to stop concerts, usually due to people throwing things on stage. I believe there was a show in LA, where he stopped the show and suggested that the offending audient come up on stage and LICK the projectile off the stage. Audience pressure being as it was, the poor stooge had no alternative if he wanted to go home alive. Maybe the offending paparazzi should be forced on stage and compelled into "dancing in 7/8", 11/16, or even 10/8 against 11/8! What do you think, Robert? Give the KC audience even MORE of a show than they asked for, and take up a collection for the difference at the exit. Mark J. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 13:30:24 -0700 From: "Ehrcraft" Subject: Greasy ramp From ET #710....Dan Comfort's "un-FraKCtured" post, about Robert "Fripp" Kneivel's jump over "FraKCtured canyon" and the greasy ramp. I say, Rock & roll is a greasy business, thats why you keep a spare ramp! .....Oh damn! I didn't work in the word "audient" (as a noun) into this post.....Guess I'm not on the "inside" anymore? Cheers, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 16:07:00 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Re: Don Ellis` soundtrack to The French Connection 1971 >Don Ellis's work has more of a period 'psychedelic big band jazz' quality >about it, but there's no doubt he could make 17 time groove like a >latter-day Garage hit. He also did some interesting pre-Miles innovating on >the trumpet, utilising distortions and echo pedals (as on his soundtrack >for The French Connection). His " innovating " was never "pre-Miles". Don`t try to place Ellis above Miles. To be kind, his work was at best, sometimes, somewhat *contemporaneous* w/ that of Miles. His (Ellis`) tendency to crank out bigband renditions of current pop tunes is a questionable practice for a 'traliblazer' of any sort. The film you refer to was from 1971. Miles did his Bitches Brew (Directions in music :^) in 1969, (& plenty of electric experimenting before that as early as January of `68 w/ Miles in the Sky). He was always the one *leading* the way, still is, & will most likely continue to do so throughout history. >It is conceivable that the early Crimson could >have heard him, I'm pretty sure that Zappa did. It is far MORE conceivable that the early Crimson could have heard Miles` work, & been influenced by it (which Mr. Fripp himself is quoted as describing as ..."Miles Davis' epochal _Bitches Brew_ (known forever as the first fusion album)"). I`ve always felt that honour should go to Tony Williams` Lifetime-Emergency, but they both are from the same year. ~Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 17:08:04 -0400 From: "Joseph A. Popp" Subject: Fripp's playing...then and now... I just got a copy of Lizard. I have it on vinyl, but I rarely listen to records anymore. Relistening to it was GREAT! I mean, I remember how great KC was all the way back, but, man, the acoustic guitar parts are unbelievable. It actually astounded me that Fripp was THAT good, even way back then. It's no wonder they achieved the recognition they did regarding musicianship. It never occured to me that he needed a second guitar in the band, but I'm very glad that Belew has remained a constant since his induction. What a great combination. Like Jekyll and Hyde, only, both are both! AAARRRGGGHHH! Nuff said... TCOL is very good, so far. I've had it for a month. The Kitchen lyrics...I dunno yet...too obvious with no intent/content? Did I miss something wicked good golly miss something? What think ye fellow Krimsonites? BTW: to hear: David Torn-Bill Frisell (particularly w/ John Zorn's Naked City)-Terje Rypdal- Fred Frith (particularly on "Winter Songs" by Art Bears [my GOD!])-Jimmy Bryant...TBC Joe Popp, just another insane guitarist... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 14:09:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Alfred Bello Subject: The problem with TCOL Hello Crimsonites: I've been contantly listening to TCOL during the last few days trying to find what is wrong with it. I have arrived to the conclusion that most of the music is great, but the performance in itself is not. There is a sort of fear behind it, like if certain songs are a real challenge to play. That is what it is! And the players knew this at the time, but were struggling to get it right. KC has gone through the European Tour. It has practiced the tunes, and has learned to improvise under live circumstances. I am positive that if KC would record TCOL today, after the tour, it would be as amazing as LTIA, where you notice self confidence. Alf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 18:47:16 -0400 From: "Jon Swinghammer" Subject: Bjork It's pretty funny to see how bjork is being discussed here days after I finally got off my butt to get her latest cd. I got Debut and Post when they came out and always liked them a lot. She has a wonderful DVD out which is a collection of her music videos and other misc. items. Her new disc is quite wonderful though I haven't had the chance to completely listen to it with full attention (I picked up a smiths album the same day and am preoccupied with it at the moment :-) Best wishes, Jon Swinghammer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 19:40:53 -0400 From: Ashley Collins Subject: Re: trower Timothy W Cox wrote: > His new material sounded great, but what interested me the most was the > huge smiles that broke upon his face when he played his old material. > These are songs that he has played countless times at nearly every show > and this time with yet another new trio (same drummer as last tour). In > fact these old songs sounded better at times than when played by the > original lineup. > > So I ask this question: Why does the current Crim feel it would be > impossible to capture similar energy if they were to attempt to play > older material which was "written, played, and recorded at another > time" (this was Mr. Fripps reasoning in his diary) . Because he's not Trower. If RT can still gain joy from reinterpreting old chestnuts in concert, then he should go for it. Bully for him! RF has indicated that this does not interest him, at least at this time, and that should be enough for us. > I am not insisting that they play older material. God knows I would > love to witness "Fallen Angel" live just once, but they're reasoning > behind the decision seems absurd Not really. It's based upon the band's current feel regarding the older repertoire, a very subjective variable in the equation. I can't fully appreciate it either, since I'm not AB, RF, TG, or PM, but I accept it, and, truth be told, applaud it. > (I probably shouldn't use the word "THEY'RE"). No, you should use the word "their." > If it was truly good music once then it shall always be. Of course the > album collection is always there to relive the past, but we all know > that a live show is where it's at. I am always enthused about new Crim > music, but we should be equally enthused about past accomplishments. I don't think there's anyone on this list who *isn't* enthused about the band's past accomplishments. But whatever the case, whether or not the band decides to perform any older material has nothing to do with audience enthusiasm; it's simply none of our frickin' business. We take what's on offer, or decline in favour of someone who can better meet our individual needs. > Like art, it is necessary to look at a painters body of work to get an > understanding of his/her style. This analogy is flawed. It's like saying no one in 1541 could appreciate Michelangelo's "Last Judgment" unless, concurrent with his work on that fresco, he re-painted the Sistine Chapel's ceiling (that actually sounds vaguely familiar; if I've unintentionally plaigiarized someone else's post on a similar topic, I apologise). Similarly, we don't need to hear new versions of the old material to appreciate the newer stuff. We've got both studio and live versions of the originals at or around the time of their creation in bountiful supply. > Lastly, prior to Trowers show it was requested by the announcer > that no flash cameras or recording devices be used and from my vantage > point the request seemed to be obeyed. Now this was a simple request > that was announced without any threats and I have never known Trower to > get all fired up and throw a tantrum if these things did occur. My > point is, perhaps Mr. Fripp has unintentionally tempted his fans to > disobey his requests by being so theatrical about the situation. > Well, these are all thoughts that have emerged this night and none are > meant with any degree of negativity, just question marks???? > > P.S. Please don't mention Bjork and Crimson in the same breath, I > usually eat while reading ET and would like to keep my food down!!!!! Your choice to follow the final sentence of your post with this postscript may just net you a huge soft tissue suit from the bulk of ETers who got chronic whiplash from reading the two of them in the space of a couple seconds. Ashley ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 17:55:04 -0700 From: Anil Prasad Subject: New David Torn Mailing List and Website A new DAVID TORN mailing list on Egroups has been created. This list is devoted to news and discussion about the work of this renowned guitarist and composer. It's also a venue to learn about his upcoming Splattercell release, soundtrack efforts and production work. You may know David Torn through his efforts with Crimson-related people such as Tony Levin and Bill Bruford. To join the David Torn mailing list, visit this URL: http://www.egroups.com/group/davidtorn or e-mail to: davidtorn-subscribe at egroups dot com Also, if you haven't seen the wonderful new David Torn website Solid States, do visit it at: http://www.gaalore.com/davidtorn.nsf There's a great deal of news and information there. If you know anyone who might be interested, please forward this note to them. -- Anil Prasad aprasad at innerviews dot org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 00:34:35 -0400 From: John Ott Subject: Re: Camera? Sandy Starr writes: >Yes >Showed an admirable flexibility when they completely changed their sound in >the 1980s. (Interesting parallel: in 1981 Discipline decide to call >themselves King Crimson despite their complete distinctiveness from that >band's past; in 1984 Camera decide to call themselves Yes despite their >complete distinctiveness from that band's past.) Lapsed into nostalgia >exercises in the 1990s and have remained there ever since, despite >occasional glimpses of future-orientation (1994's much maligned album Talk >was, in my opinion, one of these). > Actually the working name of the 1884 band was "Cinema" Camera comes from the 1980 album Drama and the song "Into the Lens." As you point out Yes changed their sound on that album in 1980 replacing Anderson/Wakeman with Horn/Downes. The "Drama" album is one of the more overlooked under appreciated albums It grew of of some sponataneous jamming between Howe and Squire. And I think has some of the finest playing of those two on it. Tempus Fugit is an example of that. Cinema became Yes when John Anderson joined in that project. Quite frankly I am not that fond of the Trevor Rabin era Yes records. But Adding Anderson's vocals to the cinema material is what made it a Yes album and the reason for the change. Squire and Anderson were/are the only founding members of Yes left after Bruford quit. (Banks and Kaye were the other founders) So why not call it Yes? And Chris Squire is the one constant in all the Yes albums. (Anderson missed the Drama album and AWBH doesn't count) Kind of like Fripp and KC. later john DC-ET ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 03:53:31 EDT From: Bassdude007 at aol dot com Subject: Know what you have "the ConstruKction of light" is an amazing recording. It is KC at it's monsterous best!! The Great Red Beast has emerged with wonderful, interesting, complex NEW music....and a tour!! Be thankful!!! Appreciate what you have while you have it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:58:44 +1000 From: "greg forster" Subject: The Construkction Of Light Hi fellow E.T.'ers. I've sat quietly in the wings, reading many of the detractors remarks regarding TCOL, and feel now, having given the offending disc many a good attentive listens, it's time I threw my few pennith-worth into the firery ring. I must confess to being staggered at the negative reponses. Having listened to Crimso since January 1970 (when their debut was released here in Australia), i've learnt never to anticipate the band's style, sound or musical direction. It is fraught with danger. I don't need to tell any of you readers/listeners the band's output has represented a constant ebb and flow, switch and backtrack. With each and every release comes something new - a continual journey of discovery. A sort of "you liked the last one, well cop this!" approach. A challenge, if you like. It has been a challenge I've gleefully accepted for thirty years, and one I've yet to fail conquering. TCOL is no less of a journey of discovery and challenge. Sure, we all have our favourite albums, eras and tracks, but in the end, if we all claim to be true afficionados, we should know to expect the unexpected, to journey into new realms, some pleasant, some not so. To "slag" an album because it fails to deliver elements we like, or are familiar with, is futile, and proves the lack of understanding some "fans" have. Fripp and crew (irrespective of which incarnation) have never bowed, I don't believe, to public pressure. Never worked to a formula that guarantees commercial success. There's little chance of hearing the same concepts, sounds and styles repeated ad-nauseam from album to album. If that's what you want and expect there's a myriad of acts out there to cater to your desires. Seek and enjoy. Crimso, in the past, have serenaded, cuddled lovingly, assaulted, beaten, spat spears of molten metal and confused, sometimes within the space of one album. There is, however, no written law that ties them to that, or any other process od creation. That would be a formula! The Projekcts prepared us, in a way, for TCOL. Research and development, I think Fripp called it. TCOL is the Projeckts' off-spring. Far more construckted, sure, but the blue-print was still evident. This album to me, is an album of the 21st century, and I feel (although acknowledging people's right to dislike) a sympathy for those who have not discovered its treasures. Admittedly, it draws elements from the past (what music doesn't), but it doesn't use those elements as a crutch for support. Despite the tight strukctures on display, the band sound freer. Looser even. There's a swagger there, a new feel. It's a looseness of sound, feel and spirit. A looseness that also gives the impression the boys are enjoying themselves. No doubt, as the music is played live, it will evolve, but as it stands I LIKE IT! An awesome achievement, and if the lads shift in style next time, i'll be there again, answering the challenge. No, i don't just like it I LOVE IT!!!!! Yours, Greg Forster ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 07:44:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Makowsky Subject: who decides what gets played Hello - I reisted replying to Alain the teacher earlier, but as it came up again ... Alain pointed out that when playing (American) footbal, you play regardless of the weather conditions, and that is true, however, the weather is taken into account when you decide what plays to run. If the rain is pouring down, you don't throw the ball alot because throwing a slippery ball, catching a slippery ball and running at top speed in the mud are very difficult. It makes performance "inherently unlikely". Is there any reason for Crimson to play tunes that they don't think they could do properly due to adverse conditions? OK , I've had my say, Kimsky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 11:35:12 -0400 From: "Albert Oller" Subject: Unexpected? From ET #710: GIG REVIEW: London Gig "I yearned for a rendition of something unexpected (is a track from Islands or Lizard too much to ask - surely this band could put an arrangement together of something pre 1981?)." It has been very clearly stated that older material was not going to be played on this tour. At first I was going to make a sarcastic comment about how unexpected could it be to hear songs played that are over 25 years old. Then I realized, you're right! (Oh, that was sarcastic too.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 11:49:14 -0400 From: "Jay Black" Subject: "odd" time signatures The Grateful Dead, especially on tunes written by Bob and collaborator/lyricist John Barlowe, often ventured into 7/4 territory, i.e. "Estimated Prophet." -Jay ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 11:53:10 -0400 From: "Jay Black" Subject: Opening acts As if you really need one one, but how about Todd Rundgren, XTC, or Soundgarden for starters? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:56:11 -0400 From: "Albert Oller" Subject: Other Musicians; Older songs; Money; Funniest ET post In the Fripp/McGlaughlin interview I think I remember that McGlaughlin suggested that he heard Mahavishnu influences in King Crimson. Fripp responded that he had purposely avoided listening to Mahavishnu and others just to avoid that. Bjork is interesting, but I think another worthy consideration for collaboration or opening act (or just good listening for KC fans) is Siouxsie Sioux from The Creatures. She has a great voice, is intelligent, tough, sexy and her husband, Budgie, is a good drummer. (Check out the re-issue "A Bestiary Of"; it's almost like a female Peter Hammill.) They have a respect for Fripp's music: on their second to last tour "No Pussyfooting" was the walk-on music. Siouxsie Sioux also has a large female fan-base, as well as a fan-base that is generally much different than that of King Crimson, two groups that Fripp has expressed an interest in seeing increase. Robin Trower is great, and I've always wondered what he and Fripp together might have sounded like because they are such different beasts (I've seen in interviews that they considered playing together). The Blues movement that Trower is in, more-or-less, has a tradition of re-interpreting the "classics". The Progressive movement that King Crimson is in, more-or-less, by definition does not serve tradition. I don't think comparing Trower and King Crimson creates a valid argument for playing older songs. I don't have a VCR currently so I can't check it out, but on the video "Careful With That Axe", Fripp mentions something about playing older songs. Please forgive me if I remember incorrectly, but I think that he said that he would love to play "Starless" again because the melody is so beautiful, but the time for that song has passed, or just isn't right. Also, if you have the chance to see this video, I think you would see what a sensitive, thoughtful person Fripp can be. (This video has other merits as well.) To all the people who mention money as the driving motive behind Fripp's actions: I don't see it in his actions or his words. Perhaps these are your motives? For the funniest ET post I would go back to T. Levin's post about the guy with the yellow jacket behind him who kept on making a racket throughout the concert. ("King Crimson is a bitch" seems a little derivative to me.) Lastly, to add the post that shorter posts have an inverse relationship of value to length I paraphrase Mark Twain: Better to not post at all and let people think you are an idiot, than to post and prove it. (To save space on ET, I plead guilty to both charges in advance.) I hope you all are enjoying this time on Earth. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #713 ********************************