Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #710 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 710 Thursday, 13 July 2000 Today's Topics: Survey Idea - BootlegTV Eventual live releases David Cross and Collector's Vol. 3 Re: Gentle Peter Hammill Re: Enough is enough King Crimson's latest work Stop It Re: Killer on the A.I.R. question conc. rieflin-fripp-gunn Lost Giles Found! Re: The construKction of TCOL and other things Songs titled "King Crimson" Yes time sigs pre-"Fragile"/Possible opening acts Hyde Park, London, 1969 set list Re: Old and New King Crimson un-FraKCtured '95 opening act ... Re: photo depression (?) and respect! HomogeniKc Belew in Mr. Bungle??? Frakctured Korn Tricky Time Signatures/Bob Ezrin Is Not The Devil Re: Cue sheets for Belew in TCOL GIG REVIEW: sex, life, the universe, drink and dreaming GIG REVIEW: London Gig ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 06:43:39 -0400 From: "Kiffmeyer" Subject: Survey Idea - BootlegTV With the recent addition of all shows being available via BootlegTV, is there any interest in creating a survey for the best show(s) from the tour? There is a mention on the BootlegTV page that the most requested shows will have a lower price than those that are not as "popular". If we could collect the opinions of ET'ers, we would have a better idea what shows will most likely be the most requested. Toby? [ See the next post too. -- Toby ] Thanks - Fritz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:18:47 -0400 From: "Mark D. White" Subject: Eventual live releases Has anyone thought of keeping track of the recent concert reviews, and maybe compiling a "quality index" of the shows (as arbitrary as it may be), so when all the live CDs are released, there would be a nice reference for those of us who just want the best couple concerts from the tour, rather than buy the whole set (I'm sure there are many here who like to buy the whole set, but who may not be able to swing it financially). Just an idea... [ Good idea, Mark. Why don't Fritz (see previous post) and you hook up and see if you want to do it? Maybe anyone else interested could email Fritz and Mark direct? -- Toby ] Later, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:59:36 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: David Cross and Collector's Vol. 3 Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop Newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Meanwhile, here are a couple excerpts for Crimson fans. Newly released from David Cross' Noisy Records Radius/Civilizations The latest release from David Cross' Noisy Records is from the band Radius. Featuring former Crimson violinist David Cross and Geoff Serle on keyboards and other electronics, is a very satisfying combination of progressive, ambient and improvisation! Guests on this release include Sheila Maloney (from the David Cross band) on keyboards, and Maxine Braham and Carlo Lucius Asciutti on vocals. The 19 minute title track is especially good! soundbite - On our import pre order page KING CRIMSON-COLLECTOR'S KING CRIMSON V3 (3CD)J Japanese 3 CD box-set for the influential prog rock act. Disc one is titled 'ProjeKt Four/Live In San Francisco-The Roar Of P4' and features 7 tracks. Disc two is titled 'The Vrodom Sessions April-May 1994' and features 12 tracks. Disc three is titled 'Live At Summit Studios, Denver, March 12, 1972' and features 8 tracks. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:21:52 +0200 From: Haible Juergen Subject: Re: Gentle Peter Hammill > Since the Shulmans' did not call him..he accepted the offer from Robert. > He laughed..saying he never regrets contributing to Fripp's great > record..but if Gentle Giant had called at the same time..he would have had > quite a decision to make. Are there any shared roots / mutual influence between King Crimson and Gentle Giant ? I'm a big fan of both, and the similarities in music (daring melodies, multitude of odd meters) are so obvious, but I don't see much talk about this. Not that I encourage discussion about other groups on ET, but if someone can point me to resources on the web I'd be happy. (I know the GG homepage.) KC is often compared with prog rock groups like Genesis, Yes etc., and it's rightfully stated that KC is playing in a different league of complexity (I'm trying to paraphrase without implying a rating) GG is sometimes compared with Jethru Tull (which is way off, IMO). But apparently nobody talks about the most obvious, a discussion of KC's and GG's music. Maybe it's just me, because I like them both ... JH. PS: Got two (signed!) CDs from David Cross on the weekend, Exiles and Testing ... - very nice music indeed ! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:04:12 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: Re: Enough is enough In ET 708, Alain Proulx bemoaned: > Oh my god, what the hell is that? I am a teacher > and I teach despite the fact my students don't listen at all. I do some teaching. I do a much better job of it when the students are fully engaged with what I'm trying to communicate. Difficult concepts cannot be usefully imparted to students who don't have full engagement, partly because they're not paying enough attention, partly because my ability to impart it has gone down because of their (lack of) engagement (which might be my fault, of course, but whoever's to blame, the conditions aren't in place for anything hard). Compare and contrast with FraKctured, described as a *very* difficult piece indeed to play. Might it be the case that a player requires to be truly in top form in order to do a decent job of trying to play it, and that form is impossible without a fully engaged audience? > I played american football and we had to perform in any situations, rain, > snow, dirt....... no place for complains. Not what I consider a great metaphor here, but say you had a sprained ankle and were thus partly incapacitated. if you show up on the field, hobble and all, you're not necessarily doing your team any favours. You can only perform what you can perform, be it on guitar or running for passes and tackles Sometimes "the best under the circumstances" simply isn't good enough for the job in hand. > Mr Fripp, for 2 or 3 non-respectful people who take photos, you accept to > punish 1,000 and more people Surely it's the "2 or 3 non-respectful people who take photos" who are accepting a punishment for the 1,000 and more others? They are the primary cause, the effect is known in advance and a matter of record. Otherwise it's like blaming gravity if you push someone downstairs. > You take all the cash, play ALL the concert. If you want to cut > it, be honest till the end and pay them back for the unplayed part. I think it's a matter of public record that a fan complaining he couldn't see Fripp for 55% of a show was sent a 55% refund and asked not to come back. If you find that missing FraKctured, even a very poor rendition, removes a percentage of the effective show, I'm sure a similar arrangement could probably be made for you... Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:42:40 +0000 From: "J. Robinson" Subject: King Crimson's latest work From Jeremy Robinson Felt I had to write again about the recent output from the amazing King Crimson - the album, 'ConstrucKction of Light' and the live appearances. Having listened to the whole album a number of times in the past few days, it strikes me as top quality King Crimson, the equal of anything they've done before. The track 'Heaven & Earth's is particularly fine: the sequence, about 4 mins 20 secs in, where the Frippertronics fade in behind the barrage of drums and bass, a few bars before the rhythm suddenly stops, is an orgasmic moment, and one of the main reasons why music is so valuable and enriching. I think 'Heaven & Earth's is a stunning piece of music. I'd be very happy if the great King Crimson continued to produce stuff like that. The rest of 'ConstrucKction of Light' has flashes of pure brilliance. It's very intense, flamboyant, difficult and heavy. I love it. So the negative responses to it amaze me. Seeing much of it performed live (in London) enhances the album immensely; it makes sense. And the whole debate in 'Elephant Talk' about the V drums is redundant: they sound just fine. You could just as easily criticize Bill Bruford's drum sound - his snare, for instance, very boxy and sharp, all rim shot. Quite weedy at times. Having seen both Bruford and Mastelotto live, I think they're both excellent musicians. I guess the negative responses to recent King Crimson live and on CD comes from fans and punters having very high expectations of the band. But King Crimson have delivered supremely - on the album and the tour. This is really high quality music. More, please. Jeremy Robinson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:09:19 PDT From: "Cedric Hendrix" Subject: Stop It Greetings, This is a friendly note to all of you Crimson fans who plan to attend any of the North American shows on the upcoming tour. It's a gentle request from one ardent fan to another. And you know who you are. (This also includes you casual fans, photojournalists, and others who might be better suited doing something else when KC comes to your town.) Based on the writings of RF and TG re: the EuroTour, there are some simple things that we simply must (or must not) do to make our concert going experience a pleasant one: 1. Mr. Fripp does not like it if you take photos of him without his permission. SO STOP IT!! 2. Mr. Fripp does not want you to record any part of his performance without his permission. SO STOP IT!!! 3. Mr. Fripp has no desire to engage you in conversation, sign autographs, or hear the story of your life before or after a show, unless he says otherwise. SO STOP BOTHERING HIM!!! 4. Bill Bruford is not returning to the fold any time soon. SO STOP ASKING FOR HIM!!! 5. The Roland V-Drums are part of the new Crimson sound. SO DEAL WITH IT!!! 6. This band will not be digging into their ancient repertoire any time soon. SO STOP YELLING FOR OLD SONGS!!! Anyone who finds that they cannot adhere to any of these rules would be better off staying home, so the rest of us can enjoy the show. Chances are, I'll have to travel to see this band play, so let me put this bluntly: If I spend who-knows-how-much on plane fare, cab rides, tickets, and souvenirs, and one of you soul-suckers forces my favorite band off-stage -- never to return -- because you can't follow the rules, I will personally hunt you down, engage you, and put my large foot into a small orifice of yours. Understand? There. I said it. I feel better. Thank you. Peace to you all. Any hate mail can be sent to me directly. And please use your real name. I am. Cheers, Ced Hendrix ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:17:49 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Re: Killer on the A.I.R. Hello again, Well, four days - so far - without a new ET. DID EVERYBODY DIE!! ;-) As an addendum to my previous post on this, it is now the next week, so you'll have to go to the archive page if you want to hear "Killer." Remember, though, you've only got until Sunday (July 16th), then it's gone for good. Smiles to you all. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:41:20 +0200 From: Roderich von Detten Subject: question conc. rieflin-fripp-gunn good evening hippies, is there anybody out there who is able to recommend either the rieflin-fripp-gunn-collaboration "the repercussions of angelic behaviour" or the rieflin-release "birth of a giant" (with fripp/gunn on it)? i'm wondering which one to buy. thanx for (private?) replies! and greetings r. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:25:00 +0300 From: Haapa Ilkka Subject: Lost Giles Found! Hi everybody, I'm not sure if this is any news but while browsing through Corbis' digital photo archives I bumped into something very interesting: A lost Giles brother has been found! Check out: http://search.corbis.com/default.asp?s=crimson&l=crimson&b=3&v=2&a=3&p=80&r=9&m=1, hmmmm...?? Greetings! Ilkka Haapa Helsinki, Finland ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:15:21 +0100 From: Simon Innes Subject: Re: The construKction of TCOL and other things Grant Colburn wrote: >> Do you seriously think that if Crimson believed there was no music in >> Oyster, they would have recorded it or >> would be continuing to perform it? Not wishing to get involved in this particular fight, but this reminded me of one of my favourite quotes, Maurice Ravel speaking about his "Bolero": "I have written only one masterpiece, and it doesn't contain any music" What, in the end, do we mean by music? I think it was Eno who wrote in his Swollen appendices book about how any pattern of sounds, if repeated, can become music to the willing listener. If we start applying this particular tag to the things we listen to we might as well stop listening altogether. Although I enjoy the posts pro- and con-TCOL (mostly), the way some posters rip and analyse everything to the nth degree reminds me of something an orchestral musician friend of mine once said: he claimed to have a book which demonstrated that Beethoven could not write finales. Another member of the orchestra apparently had a similar book which demonstrated how Beethoven could not write first movements. "All we need to do is find books for the other two movements and we can write Beethoven off completely!" I would like to suggest a new policy for ET regarding new albums: could we have a moratorium of at least a couple of weeks before people can post their opinions? That way we can filter out the knee-jerk reactions. How can anyone really assess a new Krimso album after only one or two listens? Toodle-oo Simon Innes "The score contains everything except that which is of the essence." - Mahler ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:59:07 EDT From: "jeremy bender" Subject: Songs titled "King Crimson" here are a couple of selections that might interest Krimson fans: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/63/sidney_hipplethe_art_bandi.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:45:08 -0800 From: Brian Bernardini Subject: Yes time sigs pre-"Fragile"/Possible opening acts The odd time signature that immediately pops into my head is the beginning of "Perpetual Change", which is in a sort of 5. As for opening acts, there is only *one* choice. Mike Keneally and Beer for Dolphins. At times, a radical departure. At other times, a perfect compliment. With the addition of sax, trumpet and various percussions, etc., the new 8-piece line-up will be a force to be reckoned with. Time for dinner. -Brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:40:02 -0400 From: "rs" Subject: Hyde Park, London, 1969 set list I see that the set list for the 12th club release is posted and I am surprised that the song "War" was left out. Must be a "royalty thang". And by the way it says that it is an unauthorized recording and we all know what means........ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:47:43 -0500 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Re: Old and New King Crimson Warren and Andy Wrote: >>If the old material and the old band are not something you want to >>associate yourself with, then change the name of the current lineup to >>something besides "King Crimson". You either are KC or you are not. If >>you refuse to play the material of the older bands then disassociate >>yourself from them by choosing to rename yourself. You seem to be mistaking a "common practice" for a law or something. The entire concept of "You either are KC or you are not," seems WAY too ironic when one considers that it is definitely a part of the Crimson legend that the name King Crimson has never stood for a definitive band of members in the first place. Supposedly arguments have always been made even from the early 70's that the band shouldn't have been called King Crimson anymore when 3/5ths of the line up changed for Lizard, or had only Fripp left for Larks etc. >>It would seem to me that the current lineup has chosen to keep the name >>in order to sell more product but then treats itself as a separate >>entity from the "old" KC when touring. If the history of Crim has always been "against the rules" in the first place, then why not this? What sense would it make for having 4 out of 6 members be the same as the last Crimson, and having them release new music called Lark's 4 and FraKctured? Its easy for us 30 years down the road to complain of "keeping the name to sell more product," but what exactly did you want a young Fripp in his early 20's to do? If being a rock musician is your career choice then you damn well better believe "selling more product" is a concern at least until one achieves the later "legendary" status as Fripp has. To me as Fripp says, the new music is DEFINITELY King Crimson so why change the name just because OLD Crimson isn't played? >Although Fripp may argue that Crimson is not a specific set of songs or >band members but a way of doing things, I really can't help but agree with >Warren's argument to some extent. It comes across like they want the best >of both worlds - they want the album and ticket sales which will be >generated by the name King Crimson, and yet they don't want to be burdened >with fans who dare expect to hear a few of the old tunes in concert. So what? They are in the position to decide what they want to do, and their decision either makes the tour fail or succeed. If there was no turn out for gigs then maybe they'd rethink their position, but obviously this doesn't seem to be the case. The only people who may be decieved are those too lazy to look into the details before buying their tickets. Like I said, considering that Crimson has regularly broken the rules through out their career, why should this be any different? I mean don't get me wrong. I think there are a few older tunes that haven't been played for the last 25 years that would be interesting. Catfood to me always seems like a choice that would go very well with the current Crim style. (SexSleepEatDrinkDream has always seemed like its younger cousin or something). Also a good jam on the Sailor's Tale riff could certainly be worked into an improv very easily, but these songs aren't gonna make or break a gig for me. > If they don't want to deal with people's expectations, they should just give >up the name. They almost did it with Discipline, they did it with the >Projekcts, but they're still relying on the KC name now they have a new >official studio album out. That logic is about as appropriate as those who complain that Peter Gabriel wrote Sledgehammer. Just as that hit practically built Realworld studios and Realworld the record label, so has the name King Crimson allowed the existence of DGM. If Fripp released ALL ties with mass culture where would the money come from to keep DGM afloat? From reading the diaries it sure never sounds like there's big money to be made in the ProjeKcts, or Soundscapes, or Sylvian/Fripp etc. Jeez, it rarely sounds like there's big money to be made from the name King Crimson itself. If anything at times I think that Fripp and co. should take MORE advantage of the name than they do by playing bigger shows for more people at larger venues, but hey, I'm not running the show and neither are you. Like I've said elsewhere just be happy that this 30 year old band exists in ANY form at this point. Think of how many of Crimson's contemporaries DON'T exist anymore and count yourself lucky without demanding more, eh? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:48:29 -0500 From: Dan Comfort Subject: un-FraKCtured ANNOUNCER: Ladies and Gentlemen, for the past hour you have witnessed Robert "Fripp" Kneivel and his team of motorcycle daredevils perform some of the most daring stunts ever performed on a two-wheeled vehicle. But tonight we have an even more incredible feat in store. Mr. Kneivel will attempt the nearly impossible leap over FraKCtured canyon! For this jump to be even remotely possible, the motorcycle must be perfectly tuned, the driver must be perfectly in sync with his motorcycle, and the ramp must be completely dry. Luckily for us all, those conditions are true tonight, so after a short break, we will see this amazing attempt. Audient 1: Cool! Audient 2: Hey look, some dude just threw a bucket of grease on the ramp! Why would he do that? Audient 1: He's got a video camera! I bet he plans to sell the film to FOX's "World's Worst Motorcycle Accidents" show! Announcer. Ladies and Gentleman, due to the condition of the ramp, Mr. Kneivel will not be attempting the FraKCtured Canyon leap. Thank you for attending the show. I hope you enjoyed all the amazing feats you witnessed. Good Night! Audient 1: No leap?! What a ripoff. Why don't they just kick out the guy who spilled the grease and go ahead with the leap? Audient 2: Yeah, he could at least try to steer around the grease and make the jump anyway! Why should the rest of us be punished for the actions of the jerk with the grease bucket? (They exit). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:06:12 -0500 From: "David F. Snyder" Subject: '95 opening act ... > Then again, there was no opening act on the US Thrak tour in '95 and I > surmised then that apparently Uncle Bob saw no need for one. But in light ... Hmm, I guess that I was hallucinating the CGT playing amongst other pieces, an incredibly fine rendition of a Bach concerto ... David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:10:37 -0400 From: Brian Preston Subject: Re: photo depression (?) and respect! Look guys/gals- I have read Mr. Fripp's entries and realize it may seem like trivial whining to some... (I suggest you also read Trey Gunn's diary posts on the subject).. but I can tell you, having been and being in a similar situation, 2 major issues must be understood: 1) Flash photography in and during a concert is annoying and really can break the concentration of the performer...(not to mention its worthlessness as a photographic technique) 2) It REALLY annoys when you have quite publicly and at venue-base postings, asked people not to take pictures and they do it any way! Its as simple as that. If an audience abuses a simple request then a bond of trust is immediately put in jeopardy, and the energy of a performance can easily turn from one of pure joyful expression to one of bitterness and irritation. Musicians/performers have every right to try to make a decent living at their craft and every CD not bought or official pic not purchased undermines the artists' right to profit from their artwork and craft. Please be respectful of Fripp et al wishes and behave. After all, or hippocampus and visual/auditory cortices can retain the images and sounds for a long time!! BKP Brian K. Preston (BKP) basses/arrangements/production Smokin' Granny/Onomata/Freehand Metaphoric Music Productions www.davido42.home.mindspring.com/smokingranny ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 04:19:10 -0400 From: Johnnyroman Subject: HomogeniKc (in reference to the Bjork thing) >Hmm ...so how about her as the first female vocalist in the next Crimson >incarnation? =) Ok, I know that "my dream kc lineup is:" is a dead thread, but here goes anyway. A LONG TIME AGO, I read someone saying the Projekcts would be alot more interesting if they had a good vocalist improving along, then he or she suggested Mike Patton and/or Bjork. (both of which are mighty fine choices). Ever since then, I for some reason started obsessing over the idea of the greatest band of all time making music with BJORK of all people. (btw, its VERY fun to listen to Homogenic and imagine what Pat would be doing the whole time) I wish we were allowed to vote on these kinda things! But then again, if the fans could decide who plays with who,... well who knows? Obviously its a bad idea. Does anyone know if any members of KC at least listen to Bjork? I should not be allowed to write emails this late in this state of mind Mike ps: Is anyone working on tab for TCOL? It took me almost an entire morning to get the first minute, and I'm just about to give up. HELP! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 04:22:00 EDT From: "Michael Findlay" Subject: Belew in Mr. Bungle??? Hello all ET'ers, First let me just say that all you people are total freaks. But in a good way. I was hoping that someone could answer a question: Does anyone know if A. Belew was ever a member/participant in the group Mr. Bungle. For those not familiar with the band, you should check it out, it is not KC but it is definately for those who like to be challenged when listening to music. Very odd. Take care. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 04:29:12 -0400 From: Johnnyroman Subject: Frakctured Korn R G: "Side note: I've found TCoL to be wonderful driving music. ("I Have a Dream" isn't exactly music to cruise to unless you're in the mood to drive yourself off a cliff.. but I digress.) Yesterday I pulled up at a light next to two kids on the sidewalk in Korn and Limp Bizkit T-shirts while I had "FraKctured" blaring from the stereo, and they both turned and stared in amazement asking who the hell that was!" Some days when I'm really bored I'll fast forward to the certain parts of frakctured featuring utmost insanity, pause it, and let loose when I happen to pull up next to those kinda people. And I'll just sit there and treat my steering wheel and dash like they're V-drums and start bouncing up and down, the whole time pretending that I don't notice the people next to me. One out of three times they ask who this "insane" guitar player is and that is what makes my journey all worth it. Also does the times when they look as if to say "What the hell is that lunatic listening to???" Also makes it worth it. NO, SERIOUSLY! http://mp3.com/duophone http://mp3.com/phoenixdown mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:59:52 +0100 From: Tim Bowness Subject: Tricky Time Signatures/Bob Ezrin Is Not The Devil For those wishing to experience even more shabby shenanigans in 53/2 to tap their toes to, I'd suggest checking out Dave Brubeck's 'Time Out' (1960) and 'Time Further Out' (1962), and the wonderful Don Ellis's 'Live In Montreaux' (1966) and 'Electric Bath' (1967). While not exactly being the first artists to experiment with exotic time signatures, both Brubeck and Ellis made the practise of experimenting with time the sole purpose of their work during certain points in the 60's. Brubeck's work despite its familiarity ('Take Five'/'Unsquare Dance') retains a freshness and charm (partly due to Teo Macero's superb production), and he has to be amongst the first people to take 5 and 7 time into the charts and onto radio playlists. Although he didn't have much of an impact on the Crimson sound (if any), his influence resonated through the work of Progressive artists such as Keith Emerson and Jethro Tull, and 80's pop acts such as Blue Rondo A La Turk and Weekend/Working Week. Don Ellis's work has more of a period 'psychedelic big band jazz' quality about it, but there's no doubt he could make 17 time groove like a latter-day Garage hit. He also did some interesting pre-Miles innovating on the trumpet, utilising distortions and echo pedals (as on his soundtrack for The French Connection). It is conceivable that the early Crimson could have heard him, I'm pretty sure that Zappa did. P.S. The 'Exposure' version of 'Here Comes The Flood' is a definite desert island disc for me as well, although I do think Ezrin's 'big' production on Gabriel's first album has been unfairly maligned. It may not be subtle or in any way innovative, but it enabled Gabriel to distinctively distance himself from the Genesis sound and provided him with a solid hit in 'Solisbury Hill'. It's also not that far removed from Ezrin's celebrated production job on Lou Reed's classic 'Berlin' album. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:41:37 +0100 From: Sandy Starr Subject: Re: Cue sheets for Belew in TCOL From ET #709: >after the sheer power of Frying Pan we had the incredibly precise and >somewhat dumbfounding (at least to this amateurish guitarist) ConstruKction >of Light which was (as with all the other songs they played) a lot better >live than on CD (the power just isn't there on a 6ish inch disc of plastic >with a bit silver foil inside it) although the thing I noticed was Adrian's >cuesheet brought on at the start and removed at the end. > >An aid to memory? > >A figurement of my imagination? In a recent interview available online at: http://www.launch.com/Features/fs_Start.asp?contentType=INTV&FeatureMode=Interview&contentId=1450 Belew explains why he needs a cue sheet for TCOL: "The hardest one for me right now to play and sing at the same time is the song 'The ConstruKction Of Light,'" he says. "And that's because I didn't design it to be done at the same time. Usually what happens with pieces like these, like [1984's] 'Three Of A Perfect Pair,' the time signatures on the guitars are really odd and the singing is in 4/4, so I can get one of them to be more second nature. But 'ConstruKction Of Light' is really a chore because the guitars are in 4/4 but the singing is in five and seven; the first verse is in five, the second is in seven, and the third time it alternates. The guitar part is the simplest thing--I just have to strike the chord at the front of each bar of four--but the first time you do it, it's on the first note of the bar of five, and the second time...it's not." Belew laughs nervously. "And this time," he continues, "I really tricked myself, because the lyrics on the choruses of 'ConstruKction Of Light' are random words, but each word is assigned to a specific note. The way I wrote the words was I went through and said, okay, every time I sing a G I'm gonna say the word 'pain,' every time I sing an E I'm gonna say 'passion.' And where there was a note that was repeated a lot, I gave it a second and third word. I wanted it to have a certain internal architecture, and that was fun. But now, of course, trying to remember words that have absolutely no meaning together, while you sing them in five and seven and play in 4/4...that's gonna give me a headache for a while. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:24:06 +0100 From: Gareth dot Page at gstt dot sthames dot nhs dot uk Subject: GIG REVIEW: sex, life, the universe, drink and dreaming hi team just wondered exactly which Crimso gig I attended. A check of my ticket stub says Shepherds Bush Empire, Monday 3rd July. That's where I went. That's where I bought a programme detailing the agonies of rehearsing and recording TCOL. So why do I think I was at the wrong gig? The SBE, despite its glowing praise as a venue in Time Out, is not what I would call ideal. I'm surprised that the audience of predominantly white males in their third and fourth decades was able to cope with standing up for two hours and more. But then your feet didn't have to be in contact with the floor for all that time, such was the density of the crowd. It was a bit like a particle of smoke being removed by the cillia lining an airway. Ah! Smoke! The lack of it was wonderful, and the speed at which the stewards moved in on offenders was incredible! On to the performance: It wasn't a spectrum of tonal shades. More an "everything cranked up all of the time" sort of show. The thrash of V drums (you may as well hit a car bonnet with a crow bar) does nothing for me. I normally appreciate those odd little time signatures, but when they're played so fast and loud, any feeling is lost. Was it all a bit too clever? At times it seemed that both PM and TG were way out of time, and TG out of tune. And the improvs! Loud and aimless. No beginning, let's all go in this direction, this is where we'll all end up. Just bang-the-hell-out-of-it without listening to anything the others are doing. The best bit was AB doing his solo TOAPP, but should we have responded like a bunch of football hooligans? Yeah, I was disappointed, but you just had to be there. It's true what Fripp said about TCOL, that it makes no concessions to the listener. It would have been nice if he'd have just given a little gareth page ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:52:58 +0100 From: "Rich" Subject: GIG REVIEW: London Gig I have just read the latest edition of ET and at last somebody has made a posting re the Shepherds Bush gig that I agree with. I have been a KC fan for many, many years and have seen previous shows at the Albert Hall and at Shepherds Bush (both of which were excellent), but I have to say the recent gig was very disappointing. The fact that I couldn't see the band at all for the majority of the gig and that I was constantly jostled by people trying to get to the bar didn't help, but I felt the music was totally one-dimentional with no light and shade at all. The improvisations were lacking in structure and seemed to meander aimlessly for too long and too often. I yearned for a rendition of something unexpected (is a track from Islands or Lizard too much to ask - surely this band could put an arrangement together of something pre 1981?). The sound mix was also bad - Pat M could have been hitting biscuit tin lids for all I know. I regret to say that unless KC take a different direction soon next time they play in the UK I will be staying at home. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #710 ********************************