Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #709 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 709 Wednesday, 12 July 2000 Today's Topics: ProjeKct X Future digital remasters You are welcome Crimson book Girls just want to have fun Killer on the A.I.R. The Litter crimson CDs for auction Photo depression HomogeniKc [Fwd: Fripp...The Sister] Jesse Gress sighting! (KC related, honest!) quality and flashes old songs Drummers in the audience, Old and New King Crimson Old & New remasters of the first 4 albums May I have a ETLetter version without the supid debates ? ;-) Constukction of Light, another party heard from Odd time sigs Single? Soundscapes Re: Opening Act for US Tour All The Signs Saying "NO!" Set lists one and all. Re: Enough is enough GIG REVIEW: London Gig ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 18:29:05 PDT From: "Mark Kisselbach" Subject: ProjeKct X How can I purchase a copy of Projekct X--Heaven and Earth? I looked on Amazon and other sites, and in some good CD stores to no avail? Help! I need more than just the bonus cut on TCOL! I live in the U.S. Is it available in the U.S.? Help--I may be having prozack blues soon! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 00:13:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Englund Subject: Future digital remasters I'm sure this has been posted at some point, or it was announced by DGM, but will DGM be releasing new remasters of the entire catalog? I have everything on cd but Beat and ToAPP and figure I'll wait until those are remastered before I actually pick them up. If so, could someone point me toward a proposed schedule for the new releases? I, for one, think that digitally remastering does make a difference, but it is subtle. Generally, it gives more definition to each instrument, and it gives the overall sound more presence. Some older cds sound so thin and tinny to my ears. Thanks, Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:17:40 +0400 From: "Vladimir Kalnitsky" Subject: You are welcome All Russian and not only Rusiian-speaking ETers are invited to visit the renewed "INDOORGAMES. The Russificated King Crimson" site. Only there you can find the translated lyrics from "The Construction of Light" album with a lot of commentaries. The address is: http://www.indoorgames.hotmail.ru. Waiting for your responses. Vladimir ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 2000 17:18:15 -0000 From: ametta at supereva dot it () Subject: Crimson book Hi, Crimsoid friend, just a few lines to announce the release of my book A Black Bible, a (nearly) complete discography of King Crimson. Over 120 pages in A4 format, including infos about releases involving all past and present members of Crimso. Introduction by Tim Bowness of No-Man. If you're interested in purchasing a copy of A Bible Black, please contact me at : ametta at supereva dot it Prices (including P&P) are as follows : Italy L. 15.000 (as Printed Material) Europe L. 18.000 or equivalent in US dollars or GB Pounds (as Small Pocket) Rest Of The World L. 20.000 or equivalent in US dollars or GB Pounds (as Small Pocket) Shipping will begin on July 20th Kind Regards Luigi Ametta Visit No Warning! the Crimson and (more or less) related web site at http://digilander.iol.it/anewland/nowarn.htm Salve, il messaggio che hai ricevuto e stato inviato per mezzo del sistema di web mail Supereva. Se anche tu vuoi una casella di posta free visita il sito http://mia.supereva.it Ti aspettiamo! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:37:03 -0600 (MDT) From: dragondancer Subject: Girls just want to have fun Hello, My genitalia does not dangle, but i have been a crimsoid for a very long time now. Well i remember the first time Talk to the Wind came through my cheesey radios' tiny speakers. Life has neve been the same since, and you know what? Radio station KRCC(NPR) still plays Crimson after all these years, (hats off to Vickie on morning freeform who plays all the DGM material)... and i am not a musicain , despite 4 years panio, 2 years guitar, and 1 week saxaphone lessons. buti do paint and draw. as i have said before in this forum the best thing about being a Crimson lady fan is that one does not have to wait in line at the ladies loo. Love and Light, Auntie Gail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 14:19:59 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Killer on the A.I.R. Hello again folks, Just piping in to let you know that "Killer" from Van der Graaf Generator's _H to He (Who Am the Only One)_ is the lead-off track on Irv Hunter's "Sonic Attack" on Antenna Internet Radio. http://www.antennaradio.com/punk/sonicattack/ It'll be there until Sunday night, but will be available next week on the archive page. I can't remember off-hand if Robert plays on this cut, but he is on the album, so it's possible. Sorry about the late notice, but I only just discovered it. Enjoy. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: 07 Jul 00 12:56:45 -0700 From: "David Voci" Subject: The Litter Hello Amigos, In ET704, John Neumann commented about Earthbound: >I have this exact same thing too. Bought it for $3.99 at Woolworths >(!) in Erie, PA in 1988 or 1989. >For those young people, or people outside the states, Woolworths >was a cheap department store (now out of business), and the last place I >expected to run into rare Crimson material. This is funny this piece as I used to rummage around in these same stores(Kresge, McCrory, Walgreens, KMart, etc...)in another part of Pennsy that I am from, but yeah, I bought an album at one of these retailers called 'Emerge' by a good late 60's Minnesota(??)band called 'The Litter' that I used to see in later years commanding a higher price than the original 33 cents that I paid for it in these atrocious bins of mish mosh that you would see in these low budget '5 and 10' stores as they were referred. You could actually find some really good LP's in these bargain stores. The upshot here is that the above LP was highly liked at the time and of course in later years I actually had to rebuy the thing for about 2.99 or so from a record collector/record vendor friend of mine as I lost the original copy. And if anyone is still awake, the thing came out on CD from One Way Records in the U.S. Best of, dv ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:28:43 -0700 From: studio seventeen productions Subject: crimson CDs for auction the first four crimson CDs (Court & Wake are DE, Lizard & Islands are standard issue) all mint, up for auction at ebay, very low starting bids. perhaps a new fan who doesn't have the early stuff might be interested. www.ebay.com search for seller id ambient17 a few other CDs up there too. cheers, dave at studio seventeen www.pureambient.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 22:40:24 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Photo depression Greetings, Is it just me, or is this whole "the audience are a bunch of unworthy jerks with cameras ruining our shows" thing getting depressing? I read the bitter diary entrys from Fripp and try to sympathise. I don't question the obvious pain all this causes him. I am sorry it does. Much as I love seeing the band live, I would rather see it become a studio animal than disband in disgust. Unless I am confused about which gigs are referred to in various diaries, it is strange to see the band members different attitudes about the same audience. Trey and Robert's reports on Barcelona are completely different from Pat's. Trey's entry is downright scary. I think you have to play to who you are playing to. In Barcelona, Pat is playing to a rocking youthful audience. Trey is becoming bitterly hateful to the hooligans that are laughing at the requests to stop photography (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) because he fears Robert will bolt as they snap away. Robert has discovered a new nuance to photo violation. Is the audience a bad audience or is Robert and Trey's perception of the audience the problem? Is Pat unaware or unaffected? I wish Ade was writing his feelings. He appears to just blast through anything except his band mates' discomfort. Perhaps this is a problem that will tone down if they play areas with broader internet penetration. Hopefully in the states there will be enough Elephant Turds and Gush Bookers to pounce on anyone with a camera. Japan? Who knows? Going by stereotypes portrayed in the states everyone in Japan has a camera with him at all times. Perhaps there is broad enough internet penetration that they will not consider the concerts a photo opportunity. Maybe there is a cultural aversion to behaving this way at concerts. I hope things will improve because I love Crimson's music and I fear Fripp will be driven away by those who won't accept his conditions for attending KC concerts. I fear the reality is that Fripp beleives he is in the right and will take an uncompromising but unattainable position in how he interacts with his audience. The audience is, for better or worse,a group. You will always be dealing with different types of behavior within the group. As a performer you can either enjoy or endure the same audience depending on what part of the group commands your attention. Don't let the bastards detract from the other 1000 people who are supportive. I know this is easier said than done, but it is the only way if you wish to continue and keep your sanity. I don't understand why this is such a burning issue for Fripp. I don't think most musicians feel anywhere nearly as strongly as he does about photos etc. All I can do is be the best audience member I can be when I fly across the country to catch a show and hope some asshole with a camera or a tape recorder doesn't cause Fripp to walk. The suggestion about posting a warning that photographers will get the boot makes sense. Post a threat to seize equipment, too, if you must. Then do it. Maybe the word will get out and things will change. The way things are going this whole us vs. them mentality has got to be killing band morale. I know it sure bums me out and I'm just a fan reading it on the computer. The informed audience will probably be too uptight to play to because they will be policing each other instead of listening to the music. I hope the next batch of tour diaries has more good moments than the European tour has had. The misery is too much to read. It must be hell to live. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 12:18 +0100 From: Florian Subject: HomogeniKc Hi Crimheads! Just a silly little post =) I just read a chat transcription of a fan chat with Bjork where she was talking about her movie "Dancer In The Dark". Some sentences had some suspiciously familiar expressions in them: "(the movie) helped me to mature and 'discipline' me. (...) I think that's where my true love is. I'm more of a craftsman. (...)" Hmm ...so how about her as the first female vocalist in the next Crimson incarnation? =) flo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 09:38:02 -0400 From: mike coffey Subject: [Fwd: Fripp...The Sister] Just made my way through the Robert Fripp Unplugged series of tapes, and I would suggest to anyone who views the "Artist" Fripp as an Autocratic Ruler of all that is Crim, to seek out and listen to these tapes. I'm sure if all the bootleggers and Photo Invaders could hear the eloquently spoken words of Fripp the "Gentleman", they would have an entirely different opinion from the rants that keep appearing in these pages. A particularly enjoyable yarn, regarding a Vicar, sums it up better than any kind of persuasive argument from any ET'er. This is a marvellous series of 9 tapes recorded after the Soundscapes tour shows, with Fripp the "Gentleman" taking questions from the audience. While 8+ hours of Fripper babble about droning and beeping sounds may seem over indulgent, it gives great insight into the Man, the Muse, Motive, and dare I say it, the sense of humour, behind his so called "Heaviness" regarding Photos and autographs and bootlegs. When I purchased the tapes, I wasn't sure what to expect, but after listening, I have a newly found respect for the Man who has to get into the "Zone" before, and during, a performance. This is truly a gem, and I would like to Thank Fripp, the Sister for providing the inspiration to put together such a package. Who knows, if you listen to these tapes, the threads on ET might be snipped, and some real constructive commentary could follow. Cheers, Mike Coffey (An Earnest Young Man) Toronto, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 10:56:45 -0800 From: Brian Bernardini Subject: Jesse Gress sighting! (KC related, honest!) Went to the Todd Rundgren show last night outside of Philadelphia, and Jesse Gress, long time Todd guitarist (and recent T. Levin guitarist) showed up halfway through the show to sit in. He wore a Tony Levin t-shirt, played the occasional bizarre, Crim-like riff or two, and ignored all requests for "Elephant Talk". Also, I saw somebody at the show wearing a TCOL t-shirt. Lucky devil. -Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 09:36:59 -0700 (PDT) From: jan geerts Subject: quality and flashes evening all, I think I understand Mr. Fripp's low spirit and fatigue when having read ET or the guestbook ; often my own spirit goes down when I read some bashing on TCOL, saying it has no qualities, or the reactions on Fripp's leaving stage or omitting 'FraKctured' when there are flashes happening. It seems useless to explain the former two, since there is already so much written about it in a clear and objective way by Fripp, A. Keeling and some Et'ers. All this indeep information, especially on dgm, and still so much ignorant letters. Just one more thing about flashes : when I saw Fripp live (first time with Sylvian, the two times with the double trio), I found it pretty cool him sitting on stage not having a spotlight on him. I thought it was something about not being a showman, just(?) a musician. A few months later, I read somewhere that Fripp has some sorth of problem with his eyes, in such manner that he can't stand bright light. Need I comment? But really, if the band asks something from its, I should think mature, public, then let US not be prima donnas, and honour it. I'm glad I could type this and not had to say it, because it would probably have been a waste of breath. Mr. Fripp, however, does have to repeat this time after time...fewww. I'm really grateful that this man and his likes continue to share their talent and vision with the public, inspite all. I'm a moderate nonpro musician myself, and I know some really great ones, who will never expose themselves to a wide public, because of all the pro-related hassles. It's our loss. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 19:07:50 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: old songs > From: Warren Melnick > Subject: Old and New King Crimson > If the old material and the old band are not something you want to > associate yourself with, then change the name of the current lineup to > something besides "King Crimson". You either are KC or you are not. If > you refuse to play the material of the older bands then disassociate > yourself from them by choosing to rename yourself. Why? Did the '70s Crimson play the music written 20 or 30 years before? They played music they composed. Current lineup does the same. Should RF change his name if he wanted to play different music? > It would seem to me that the current lineup has chosen to keep the name in > order to sell more product but then treats itself as a separate entity from > the "old" KC when touring. What you write is rather unpolite. One should treat a band like KC - one that tries to bring new music - with respect. Fripp tries to build on a tradition, and using KC name is entirely his decision. You do not have any right to tell him what to do with it. > If there are "bad" old songs then do not play them. But surely there are > some songs recorded during the 60s and 70s lineups of KC that are not so > awful that this band could stand to play them. Just go and spend about two or three thousands dollars on some good hifi equipment, and listen to the old discs. Remasters would sound better then what you get on a live show, especially with all the problems with the correct sound set. > Quick question on a totally different point: How many out there agree that > the version of "Here Comes the Flood" that Peter Gabriel contributed to on > RF's Exposure is superior to the original? I read in some interview that it was the way the song was supposed to be,the 'orchestral ' one from PG I was arranged by the producer (Bob Erzin?) Marcin Gokieli marcingokieli at go2 dot pl <> Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 14:22:26 -0400 From: Andrew Acunzo Subject: Drummers in the audience, Old and New King Crimson "c & m bartlett" wrote: >Other "guests" (who did not misbehave) included John Paul >Jones, Ian " Mott the Hoople"Hunter, Mike Giles and for a short time, >William Bruford. Wow, imagine poor Pat, having to play with two of Crimson's stellar ex-drummers there in the crowd! Talk about pressure! (And wasn't Ian Wallace there in Nashville?) Warren Melnick wrote: >If the old material and the old band are not something you want to >associate yourself with, then change the name of the current lineup to >something besides "King Crimson". You either are KC or you are not. If >you refuse to play the material of the older bands then disassociate >yourself from them by choosing to rename yourself. > >It would seem to me that the current lineup has chosen to keep the name >in order to sell more product but then treats itself as a separate >entity from the "old" KC when touring. Although Fripp may argue that Crimson is not a specific set of songs or band members but a way of doing things, I really can't help but agree with Warren's argument to some extent. It comes across like they want the best of both worlds - they want the album and ticket sales which will be generated by the name King Crimson, and yet they don't want to be burdened with fans who dare expect to hear a few of the old tunes in concert. If they don't want to deal with people's expectations, they should just give up the name. They almost did it with Discipline, they did it with the Projekcts, but they're still relying on the KC name now they have a new official studio album out. Andy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 17:01:40 EDT From: "R G" Subject: Old & New >If you refuse to play the material of the older bands then >disassociate >yourself from them by choosing to rename yourself. Are you exactly the same person you were 10, 15, 30 years ago? No? Then why not legally change your name? >It would seem to me that the current lineup has chosen to keep the >name in >order to sell more product but then treats itself as a >separate entity >from the "old" KC when touring. The current lineup has kept the name because King Crimson is the same entity, as Fripp puts it, that always produces this music. Regardless of who's involved. Of course it's grown and changed over 30 years. If you want something that never changes, go catch an AC/DC concert. >If there are "bad" old songs then do not play them. But surely there >are >some songs recorded during the 60s and 70s lineups of KC that are >not so >awful that this band could stand to play them. Sure there are. But how much can you progress if you insist on doing the same material for every show? The band has moved on.. the challenge remains for the audience to move on with them. I for one will be glad to try to keep up. Side note: I've found TCoL to be wonderful driving music. ("I Have a Dream" isn't exactly music to cruise to unless you're in the mood to drive yourself off a cliff.. but I digress.) Yesterday I pulled up at a light next to two kids on the sidewalk in Korn and Limp Bizkit T-shirts while I had "FraKctured" blaring from the stereo, and they both turned and stared in amazement asking who the hell that was! P.S. I think Peter Gabriel's alternate "Here Comes the Flood" blows away the original. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 22:46:43 +0100 From: "Keith Bennett" Subject: remasters of the first 4 albums I'm not obsessed with KC, like some. Just Lizard. These remasters of the first four albums, about which everyone knows, but me...Where do I get hold of them? You might think it a stupid question, but the music shops round here know only the mass-distribution stuff. And another thing... I wanted to make a wall-poster of the Lizard cover, using my new big printer. The original album was lost years ago, and the tiny CD card is of too low a resolution. Does anyone know where I can find good quality prints? Please don't flame me for being so ignorant. I did buy the first albums as they came out, when the band needed the money. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 19:49:59 EDT From: LTheDwarf at aol dot com Subject: May I have a ETLetter version without the supid debates ? ;-) I don't understand what some KC fans expressed frequently on the ETLetter: 1.flashes & smoke debates. If the artists don't want us to smoke nor take photos, when we go to their concert we don't have to smoke or take photos. When we're comming in the concert, we agree (that's implicit) to behave ourself as they want. The only right we have is to yell,applause, booh, whistle...after the music stops, depending on everybody feelings. The quality of the music played, the technical difficulties of the track played, the respect of musicians we admire, are the sufficient reasons to simply execute what they want. When you go to a classical music concert, even if the musicians are young and unexperienced, you'll respect them far more when they're playin, and everyone will refrain to applause during the 3 pauses of a 4 part sonata. that's not because we are at a "rock" concert we've to behave as cretins. We have a big chance: KC is playing in small venues, let's thanKCs obediently (!) (Please note I'm a smoker, but the longer the concert will last the better I'll feel ) 2.Fans's demands (Play old tunes,...) We have not to demand nothing, they play all they want, and we have to thank them to tour. I'm always surprised by the following fact: When the artist listen to his fans, some fans quickly think they have rights on the artist, and shortly after fans seem disappointed by their heroes (Shit! he is human ). I don't know very well the rock universe (I know much more classical music) except KC and Frank Zappa.KC &FZ have some common points: A "listening attitude" for their fans , an active and positive fight against bootlegging with a huge generosity in providing live material, in concert they play MUSIC and not canned soup. Probably, I'll never met Robert Fripp, but if it were possible, I'll shake his hand and I'll only say to him "thank you to be who you are, please keep on", and that's all. 3. I think the KCCC #11 debate is stupid, for 2 reasons: - It's not a good quality recording because this concert was not well recorded, not because some DGM people wanted to provide bad stuff.The same people who complain should have bought the "original" bootleg source, at high price, with a big smile.But when it's official and musicians are paid they cry. - Historical recorded performance must prevail over sound quality:for example If you like Gustav's Mahler's Kindertotenlieder and you want to hear the most touching version (Kathleen Ferrier, B.Walter/..) you'll cannot choose a Stereo, high quality version. there's a third reason: I think we're numerous ETreaders not to be KCCC members, and it'll be easy to sell us the less wanted ... ---- Anyway, It's pure pleasure to read ET letter so frequently, To the people who works on it: thank you for all. Fabrice Vaillant (France) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 02:13:16 -0400 From: "Peter Shindler" Subject: Constukction of Light, another party heard from I've been living with the new album for a while now, and, hmmm... I can understand why this music is producing such strong feelings here, but I'm used to hating every new Crimson album for the first 6 months after hearing it, then suddenly realizing how great it is, which was my experience with Thrak, ThrakAttak, Three of a Perfect Pair, and (gasp!) even In the Court of the Crimson King when I first heard it way back when. So I fully expect the hidden genius of the new album to hit me around mid-November. "Fractured" and "Larks Tongues IV" have so far only reminded me how much better their forebears are, but I suppose that might change with time. If nothing else, hearing them inspired me to break out my Great Deceiver set for the first time in a few years, which is no bad thing. Boy, they haven't changed a bit since 1973, have they? :) Peter ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 13:56:26 CEST From: "Marcus Enochsson" Subject: Odd time sigs Hi! Been away. Apologize for anything I've missed that may make my posts unnecessary. I read about the time sig question. 1) The trick is to simply count at a strictly firm pace and not fall for the trap of counting the actual notes in the groove instead of keeping a steady beat. If you want to know the sig of a tune, just keep on counting at a very steady beat that you'll feel quite naturally from the song. You'll also feel when it's time to start over from 1 again. That is, when you listen to ProzaKc, for example, you count to 12, and then the 13th beat actually is the start of another row of 12 beats. That is, it's in 12/4ths. Or, if you count faster, which works just as well, you'll count to 24, since you're then counting the 8ths, and whether it technically is in 12/4th or 24/8th is the same thing, and doesn't matter anyway... Just my tip. 2) What was the first KC song to feature anything else than 3, 4, 6 or 8 sigs? Nothing in ITCOKC, right? Unless you count the improv, perhaps, but that's beyond time sigs, as I look at it. And, when that question is answered, what other prog bands had already "discovered" odd sigs? Genesis, did they have any odd sigs before Foxtrot? (Apocalypse in 9/8), or Yes, how about them? Anything before Fragile (the Fish, 7/8)? ELP? Gentle Giant? Other? Cheers Marcus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 14:02:44 CEST From: "Marcus Enochsson" Subject: Single? Just a few questions and things. Is there any rumours or plans for any sort of single release or anything from TCOL? I'd love to see more material from our guys. I love TCOL and the PX CD. I'll send FracKtured to ET tabs, all that I have so far. The heavily disted solo rocks, but unfortunaltely it rocks way too fast for my ears, at least without some longer access a good computer with the ability to zoom into detail in the sound picture. It's anybodys try. Perhaps mine later on... And a point that was so exactly what I thought that I had to cheer out loud: >Screaming at concerts : In jazz, rock and blues, applause and whistles >after solos or particularly moving lines within a song are part of the >tradition. In gospel and R&B, if the audience doesnt answer back, >something is wrong. So if KC titles a song Prozakc Blues, they might be >signalling that answering back the singer is a sign that the song >works. And the title of Prozakc Blues labels it as a joke- an >antidepressant that gives you the blues. Thanks for existing, everybody! Later (away yet a month or so, if anybody cares, which they probably don't do anyway...) Marcus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 14:00:55 +0100 From: "Darren" Subject: Soundscapes I've been working on some 'soundscapes' at the moment and I've uploaded them on to my new website www.soundscaper.co.uk They aren't up to RF's work but they kind of meander in that direction. Please be generous with the ol' enthusiasm! Please feel free to have a listen and if you like them drop me a line as I am planning some live internet performances and I want some volunteers/listeners! Regards, Darren ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 09:08:24 PDT From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: Re: Opening Act for US Tour Some good comments have been posted re: opening acts for the upcoming US KC tour, most noteably that an act such as Phish would no doubt draw fans of the opening act that might not be attuned to the King Crimson "experience," as it were, and would possibly come to see the opening act more than the headliner. Plus, as I recall it, opening acts for major artists were usually plucked from among the ranks of seeming obscurity by the headliners (except on the "package" tours of yore). With this in mind, and having had the pleasure of attending the Nashville warm-ups in May, I would suggest with all sincerity the back-up act that appeared there: acoustic guitarist Richard Leo Johnson with percussionist Greg Bendian . . . but give 'em more than thirty minutes to play! These two were simply unbelievable to watch in action, and take up a modicum of space on the stage (and in the tour bus, for that matter- hey, the double trio fit on a bus), allowing Crim-gear to be and remain in place behind them during their set, and be ready for KC when they're finished. I got the distinct impression that both Richard and Greg had a blast opening for Crimso in Nashville and both deserve to be introduced to a wider audience. I picked up RLJ's "fingertip ship" CD from Sister Fripp after the first set I attended and it keeps making its way to the player over and over again...and this doesn't even HINT at what these guys are like live! Then again, there was no opening act on the US Thrak tour in '95 and I surmised then that apparently Uncle Bob saw no need for one. But in light of RF's oft repeated advice to aspiring/young musicians to "play live as much as possible," I would think he'd be partial to lending such a helping hand to musicians who he felt deserved such, and who would be game to go on the road for an extended period of time. This is not to say that RLJ & GB are still wet behind the ears and/or need RF's help, but they certainly deserve to be known to more listeners than they already are. Unfortunately, RLJ & GB are not DGM artists, so in the alternative, I guess someone from the DGM stable would be a good idea as well. Then again, as most (if not all) current DGM artists are based in Europe proper or the UK, and no one tagged along for the just-finished European tour, maybe that idea's come and gone. Also, while I thoroughly enjoyed the Nashvile shows, it seems that more and more improvisation has been creeping into the sets over the last month...so I'm really looking forward to having my ears flattened (again) in a few minths, guys! Regards, Mike Michel J Champagne Pellerin Milnor Corporation Systems Programmer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 07:29:05 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: All The Signs Saying "NO!" Good morning everybody! I'd - finally, after long time of considering - like to throw in my words on the current bootleg, photograph etc debate. I did never really understand the discussion about that. Why? Because it's so simple: Here, there is an extraordinary sensitive musician. It gets him down if you record his music, it gets him down if you photograph him. Very simple. He doesn't want to - easy to understand, easy to accept. In our world there isn't much room for feelings. But hey, in this small society of Crimson fanatics there MUST be! Yes... Fripp is a very sensitive man. You can hear it in the way he plays guitar. BTW has anybody ever seen a record which features both Fripp/Belew (to me, the real Lennon/McCartneys!) ? Wish you all well. Markus Visions of angels all around - dance in the sky. Leaving me here - forever goodbye (hello Mac!). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:37:52 +1000 From: " Tony Greig" Subject: Set lists one and all. Fellow Crimophiles, I have to reply to the ongoing raves regarding the current Crimson's setlist and the absurd comments that some ETer's submit! Firstly, since when is a musical artist(s) playing material from their past inhibiting their progress forward? It seems to me that a few ETer's think that a band playing older material DO NOT MOVE FORWARD! What a load of bollocks! The insane notion that to really progress forward you should leave the past behind, is hollow, false and misleading! Most bands are touring to promote their latest album etc, and this in itself is a progress forward, as is the use of new or different equipment in presenting their show. The same can be said for their musical abilities now compared to back then! Why not play music from the past now, to see how it comes out either played the same as you used to, or maybe with a different arrangement? The different countries they tour and venues could also be seen as a progress forward. Also, the induction of new and 'fresh' blood into their lineup's could be seen as a progression as well. The fact that some people keep referring to artists they either do not like or have attended a 'dud' concert or whatever, is enough in itself! What, because they 'appeared' the same as last time or that is 'what you thought they would be like', does not mean they have not progressed etc! Each to their own! If you do not like something that does not mean it is stagnent, redundant or whatever other term you want to attach to it! King Crimson (RF?) have decided to leave out pre '94 material for whatever reason and that is their (his) decision and I respect that! But as I have commented earlier in ET, I cannot see the logic in this and that does not mean Fripp and company should listen to me or anyone else! I agree in part to Warren Melnick (ET708). I believe that a band legitimately carrying a name from the past almost certainly conjures up an image, expectation, memory or historical moment. Therefore the past can easily come into play, can it not? All I can say is that I have talked with other Crimson fans and they agree with the disappointment of the Crim not travelling down the 'forgotten' path! They did it with the double trio, was this a lineup that did not progress forward or were they merely playing material from a new album and other 'older' material for nostalgic reasons? Where does the past cease? When should it cease? I am not saying Crimson should play Schizoid Man etc, but they have an impressive array of material and what a shame on this tour it is being neglected. Sure, they may have flogged to death older material and they may not like a lot of it themselves and no doubt it could be rather boring for Fripp to play. Still we in Oz do not get a choice at all (except flying overseas), so enjoy what you have as it will not be around for very long! Cheers, Tony Greig. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:22:30 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Re: Enough is enough >I read what Fripp said about the fact he doesn't play Frakctured during a >photo session and also that he feels the show compromised cause he is sure >the concert is recorded. Oh my god, what the hell is that? I am a teacher >and I teach despite the fact my students don't listen at all. Me, like >almost the rest of the world, have to work in conditions we don't like. >What is that Prima Dona attitude??? So you assume playing a concert is RF's "work" and he gets money out of it. I always assumed the exact contrary. When you teach (I can speak, I do it myself as a "work"), you are obliged to do it because it's a contract between yourself and your employer. But RF? Is there a contract somewhere stating he is obliged to play whatever the conditions? Btw, if I was not contractually obliged to teach in front of uninterested students, I would leave more than often. Plus we always have the right to fire anybody not respecting the house rules, set by ourselves. Unfortunately, Robert cannot do it >I am A long lasting and Die Hard Crimson fan since 1972. For me Fripp is >one of the greatest. But I can't admit this way to do things. I played >american football and we had to perform in any situations, rain, snow, >dirt....... no place for complains. Anyway the artistic respect I have You can always choose to refuse to do something, whatever the conditions. If you do not, that's your problem. Ever asked yourself why? >for Fripp, as a musician I could not share the stage with someone who >refuse to play for such a reason. Belew played sick, what a man he >is......a real one. Mr Fripp, for 2 or 3 non-respectful people who take >photos, you accept to punish 1,000 and more people. I don't know, but we >don't seem to have the same definition of respect. Just do that once to me >Robert and no more I will accept to spend my so precious money to hear you. I am sure if Robert dared to respond, he would tell that you are exactly the kind of audient he can easily do without, and that you must feel free to do so. >Respect is a two ways deal. You have to assume the fact that a crowd is >not only a whole. It is made of people who deserve respect at least as you >do yourself. And most of all, they are the reason why you could live from The problem is that, from the stage, you never see individuals, but a crowd, which always is the lowest common denominator, no matter how good and well behaved the individuals in it may be. Taking place in a crowd implies you are aware of this and accept the responsibilities. The problem is that most people taking place in a crowd 1) always assume they are better than the others 2) want to be individually acknowledged and do everyting to have the energy drawn onto them and 3) do not understand that their behaviour changes the very nature of the crowd. As a teacher, have you ever noticed how the working atmosphere within a group of students is a subtle balance, and how the apparently invisible skepticism and non acceptance of the rules of one individual totally fucks up the group and makes it impossible for the teacher to reach his aim? >your music all these years. They pay for the albums, they pay for a >concert. You take all the cash, play ALL the concert. If you want to cut >it, be honest till the end and pay them back for the unplayed part. I always assumed buying a ticket for a mass event is taking a big risk. Anything can happen, and you must be prepared for it. So this last statement is really very difficult to understand for me. And, BTW, assuming RF takes ALL THE CASH is incredibly naive. ___ Laurent Masse masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr ___ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 21:26:01 GMT From: "mike mclaughlin" Subject: GIG REVIEW: London Gig The King Crimson gig on July 3rd was the first time I've ever seen the band live up (fairly) close and personal, I was massively impressed by the sheer power the band's sound had. The band opened with Frying Pan which was absolutely incredible the room lifted when the opening notes were played although my view was generally obstructed (a point I will return to) the band seemed in high spirits (end of tour joviality?) and Adrian Belew had the smile of a man in full health and on top form throughout, after the sheer power of Frying Pan we had the incredibly precise and somewhat dumbfounding (at least to this amateurish guitarist) ConstruKction of Light which was (as with all the other songs they played) a lot better live than on CD (the power just isn't there on a 6ish inch disc of plastic with a bit silver foil inside it) although the thing I noticed was Adrian's cuesheet brought on at the start and removed at the end. An aid to memory? A figurement of my imagination? I don't pretend to know why the events of the gig transpired I just report my opinions and observations. anyway TCOL was followed by an improv. after which Adrian adressed the audience telling us. "Now we'll play something you'll know." Indeed it was something we knew and as opposed to the subtle and puzzling suggestions from parts of the audience for the band to do 21st Century Schizoid Man with their cries of "It's the 21st Century" even I know that Crim are not a requests band. Anyway the matter in hand VROOOM (the song we'd know, and did even without it's coda) was absolutely incredible (you'd never have realised that a third of the lineup that played on the album were missing), this was followed by One Time (again fantastic as it's one of my (many) favourite Crimsongs)and another improv (the improvs were all incredibly good as expected). Then for me the highlight (despite Adrian's vocal struggles in pursuit of high notes) Dinosaur (my absolute fave Crimsong) was absolutely incredible live (even though I must've heard four live versions actually being there made it all the better). Followed by ProzaKc Blues which was brilliant (the first song to really grow on me from TCOL), followed by Oyster Soup (the song I was oddly least keen on until about two weeks ago when I worked out how Adrian had written the lyrics (or at least how I think he wrote the lyrics) however live although Adrian seemed somewhat lost in the words it had a new charm (particularly what appears to be now known as "the spider fingers solo") this was followed by the seminal version of the brutal Larks tongues part 4 which was a better interpretation of the power behind it than the CD, the version of Cage which appeared somewhere mid-set (we're not sure exactly where) was indeed interesting and one of Adrian's vocal highlights. The first encore "Three Of A Perfect Pair" featuring the audience on backing vocals and Adrian playing some impressive solo Acoustic guitar (just one man his acoustic and an audience of some brave Crimfans who had an inflated opinion of their vocal talents (i.e. my dad)). this was followed by another improv piece which I think may have been The Deception Of The Thrush? (possibly just the deception of the reviewer) which harked back to some of the great improvs of the late 70's crim live. The band then left the stage only to be drawn back out by the Crimstarved masses assembled from all over the UK (and possibly other areas of europe) to perform Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream, (another of my fave Crimsongs) which was again incredible (although Adrian again struggled with the odd high note). They then thanked the backstage crew and departed once more only to return with a slightly distorted (volume wise) version of David Bowies "Heroes". My father's only quibble was the fact that he had to stand and there are many fans of the band who are probably in the same age group as Robert Fripp (he got a seat why not my dad?) for whom two hours on their feet disagreed with them for the rest of the week (my dad would no doubt agree). In closing I will just say that the new album has to be heard live in order to be fully appreciated in my opinion (my dad certainly found this was the case). Regards Mike McLaughlin. (and his dad) ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #709 ********************************