Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #703 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 703 Thursday, 29 June 2000 Today's Topics: Holger/Heldon/Heep Approac Crimson MIDI Files CC Club -- NO Grounds for Complaints FraKctured, XTC & Light, Lengthy posts simply crimson Re: Determining Time Signitures (sic) Play FFWD CC #11: Moles Club Audio Rankings of CC releases Italian copy of Earthbound Bartok's String Quartets Comments on Moles Club First of multiple posts - Re: George Antheil Les Paul: Pioneer of Looping? KCCC #11 Trading with DUTCH ET-ers Larks' Tongues In Aspic, Part 2 Re: Whining about CC releases Re: more TCOL-ing Blasts from the past Part two: My thoughts on TCoL Third of a Perfect(?) Post: opinions from the tower? Jim's posts in ET: Part IV - Lizard Re: GIG REVIEW: KC In Paris - Why ? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: 27 Jun 00 12:33:50 -0700 From: "David Voci" Subject: Holger/Heldon/Heep Approac Hello Friends, Would like to thank previous writers pointing out a few gaps in my Holger Czukay collection. Truthfully, this is my first listening of anything wearing the David Sylvian moniker so here alone, if 'Approaching Silence' is any indication, there lurks another gap in this ever broadening "electronic" category I'm am fond of. Readers with comparable suggestions from David Sylvian's catalogue similar to the material on Approaching Silence would be welcome. As for Richard Pinhas, the guitarist from France, a fellow reader had referred me in his direction a few years back as I had always seen Heldon, which is Richard Pinhas' early 70's group, and Richard Pinhas solo releases reissued on various labels(Spalax and Cuneiform primarily)but never really had the time to check them out. I ended up buying 5 or 6 of these titles but overall, found little in the way of original and stimulating style here even though RP is an excellent musician in his own right. Mainly early seventies Fripp allusions on the early works and for me, a bit of a resemblance to Manuel Gottsching of Ashra Tempel et al., on later works. And like MG, Pinhas seemed to incorporate way more electronics into his playing as time progressed, at times on the funky side. I will say though, that through it all, I find the following CD's very listenable by Heldon/Pinhas as besides the obvious above influences, there are still some stellar moments of decent musicianship here in long improvvy workouts: Heldon-Electroniq Guerrilla / It's Always Rock n Roll(2LP's on 1CD) Heldon-Interface And that heap of humans called Uriah Heep...my only real LP owned and liked by them was the LP 'Demons and Wizards'. Still have it and occasionally it sees it's way to the Technics turntable. I actually saw them in Switzerland in 1976 with Woody Mansey's U-Boat as a supporting act. I was wasted on good Swiss beer among other things, so of course remember nothing about the show. Best times, dv ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 16:02:38 -0700 From: Android Subject: Crimson MIDI Files Does anyone know where I can find an accurate MIDI of "Thela Hun Ginjeet" ? I have MIDI's of some others, like "Discipline" and "Frame By Frame". Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. :-) -- Ted ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:30:15 -0400 From: "Heilbronner, Mike" Subject: CC Club -- NO Grounds for Complaints Greetings: The goals and likely candidates for release in the KC Collectors Club have always been clearly posted on the DGM site and repeated in several ways in Fripp's diary, as have Fripp's invitations not to join if you have ANY trepidation about sound quality. In light of the obtrusive and pervasive warnings, we should all be thanking DGM/Fripp and expressing appreciation for the fact that so many KCCC releases have had good sound quality. Now that a release has the low sound quality we were warned about from the beginning, there is a chorus of complaints. The only whining that is less warranted is the crying about the "electronica", V-drums, and production on TCOL. Wasn't the likely outcome and sound of TCOL clear based on current lineup; development of Projekcts and many, many, many posts by Fripp describing the character, instrumentation and limitations of the next KC? It was to me. In Fripp, we have an artist who provides more background information on recording, production and more access to archives than any contemporary musician, and the only responses of a significant minority of us are to (i) ignore the information; and (ii) complain that someone else bears responsibility or blame (usually Fripp) for their decisions and actions. What a farce! Love. Mike Heilbronner ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jun 00 19:21:07 MDT From: DAN WASSER Subject: FraKctured, XTC & Light, Lengthy posts Hello, fellow ETers. 1. On Track 5 (FraKctured) of TCOL, 3:27 to 4:22 blows my mind 2. All I've listened to for the past month is TCOL and XTC's Wasp Star -- two completely different types of music, but both amazingly entertaining. Like Pat Mastelotto recently said in his diary: the connection of "light" between the two CDs is interesting. (XTC's "We're All Light" is an absolutely wonderful song.) 3. Why are there so many lengthy posts to ET? I rarely read them. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 21:27:01 -0400 From: Daniel Pepper Subject: simply crimson hi~ is it just me or do albums like Discipline and Three Of A Perfect Pair have a tremendous influence on all that trance music nowadays? by the way, SOME trance is actually good..its strange how much influence Crimson have and how people never realize it..Industry (especially the version from Absent Lovers) is a real trip..just wanted to say that..k bye=) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:16:00 +0100 From: Nick Loebner Subject: Re: Determining Time Signitures (sic) As I'm sure others will chip in with comments on how to determine time-signatures (and it can be an issue of disagreement in corner cases), I'll restrict my comments to two:- 1. Gina Lollabrigida is an excellent way of illustrating 7/8. Does anyone know similar examples for other common yet unusual signatures? 2. I am reminded by Bryan's choice of quote (from Ade) of Caravan's "Best of Caravan Live" which features an "audience solo in 7/8". Is this unique in the tawdry annals of progressive rock? - Nick. (Unless I'm mistaken, this is my first ET post, despite reading ET for many years - all very exciting!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:24:09 GMT+1 From: Xavier Ozouf Subject: Play FFWD Hello everybody Last week I told you how I disliked G,G&F Insanity... (Since I gave/sold the CD to one of you readers). So I'll now come back on RF's past, yet more recent. I'd like to encourage people to find an album called FFWD, a collaboration with Fripp, Felhmann and guys from the electronica band The Orb (W & D, really !) 1994. The music : it's what you can expect from soundscapes +, it does not rock but is excellent ambient. It's not as airy as the soundscapes album (I have 1999 & A blessing of tears), slightly more urban yet not indus (that is, unlike projeckts). I've found it in the RF discogr. on the ET Web Site but I didn't knew its existence before, even though I knew some stuff were made (I remember an interview of the Beloved where they said "RF came in studio, played an overdub once on each track and said we could do whatever we wanted with the result"). Check the sleeve. I think it features what is the best way to picture soudscapes as an instrument : kind of harp with little barocco stars and planets on strings ! The inner sleeves are quite good to : universal tape design with "STOP []", "PLAY >", "FFWD >>" and "REW <<". A few words more, for 2 infos about Fripps collaboration with the Rai-Singeress Cheichka "crazy" Rimitti (in the mid 90'). 1 I do have the EP as a 4 track CD (only two indicated on the discogr.) for over 40 minutes of music (there's a 20 min. mix !). I think it is more interresting than the album. 2 In a recent interview (wich is exceptionnal because she almost never talks) Rimitti said she was not very happy with her "American" album (incl. Fripp, but also Flea, RedHotChiliPepper Bassist, and producer Geza X). I've found it, I've found it !!! Someone not touched after a collaboration with master Fripp... bet they never met. So goodbye X Boite aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:17:07 -0400 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: CC #11: Moles Club Regarding Collector's Club #11, I find myself of a slightly different mind than Mr. Fripp with respect to the "historical significance" of this kind of release. Of the entire Collector's Club series, only the Marquee Club sounds worse (and since so one seemed to want that one, I just threw it away)... Historical value? This is a rock'n'roll band, folks, not the magna freaking carta. Shall we get over ourselves just a tad? Yes, I understand that the deal here is, there will be some gems in the series, and some clunkers; take it or leave it all. And I continue to choose to take it. But I have far too many other cd's-- other good cd's-- hell, other King Crimson early 80's good cd's-- for me to ever see myself putting this one on again, because it sounds like rubbish, and life is short. On the positive side, my one listen did: (a) remind me just how magnificant "Discipline" is, which I promptly played for the first time in way too long; (b) remind me of the stellar CC #4, live at Cape D'Agde 1982. It's on now as I write this ("cliches... conversations... criticisms!") Now THIS is something to hear. Song of the week at my house: Sheltering Sky. A pleasant respite and change of pace after three weeks of Oyster Soup and such. Cheers to my British friends, and "Yo! Wassup!" to my fellow Yanks. The rest of you, take your pick. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:38:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Ottersten Subject: Audio Rankings of CC releases Hi Crimpeoples, John Ott wrote: >It would be nice if before the releases are sent out if the DGM web would >have info on the relative quality of the release so that those that want to >decline a particular release have the information to do so. Currently, on the KCCC Pages at DGM web there is a page for each upcoming release, and also an indicator of the source of the release. At some point before the cut-off, Dan K. posts a rating on a 10 point scale (yes, it has five stars, but there are half stars also) from DGM, and then a rating from the members, too. Regarding Moles Club particularly, long before the release (weeks before the cut -off date) Dan K. had posted a 1 minute sample from the show. Even from this it is clear what kind of recording Moles is: the vocals are 1-dimensional, the guitars are squashed, and the drums are very muddy (that all said, I am happy to have Moles - I find it to be a very fun recording, and is in quick rotation on the cd player along with 5/19 at 12th & Porter). From this info I would have refused the cd if I did not like the sample's quality. Furthermore: The KCCC is a web based service. If you don't utilize the web resources then you are going to miss on the details that will influence a decision. That is just the facts of how it is, and it is wholly unreasonable to ignore the information provided and later complain that you were somehow wronged. Which brings me to Paul, who, in a follow-up to his previous whine, wrote: >Fripp MUST have better examples to use. I know for a >fact almost every live show has a tape recording at the board for the band >to review afterwards. Some are saved-most are destroyed...So come on...Put >the politics aside and call it as it is...CRAP.... "MUST have better examples"? This statement is based clearly unfounded assumptions: 1) there is another recording of this; 2) they did not release that recording deliberately. You kvetch about the quality, then state that you want the release anyway, and still continue your whine about the audio quality? If the release is "crap", and you will only play it once, then why do you still want it? That's just plain dumb. Trade it, sell it, e-bay it, throw it to the neighbor's dog as a small frisbee if you are not going to use it again. It does not matter how long you have liked KC or how many shows you have seen, Fripp has released stuff that I did not like either (notably his albums with Andy Summers and the Crafty Guitars albums), and I just got rid of those albums (historical note for the youngins: in the days before CDs and the web you had to buy an album [big black plastic round thing] before you got to listen - no in-store samples or web audio clips). Simple problem - simple solution. No whining. Kathy O. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:08:40 -0400 From: seanr at frognet dot net Subject: Italian copy of Earthbound The other day, while purusing the record collection of the local record shop, I found a strange copy of KC's Earthbound. It had a cover that featured the picture from the front of Red colored in mostly primary colors with strange geometric designs dispersed throughout. The back of the record is a biography of KC written in Italian. It is on the sucesso label which appears to be a division of polygram records. The actual label on the vinyl record says "made in Italy". I'm fairly sure the tracks are the same, but the cover is completely different. Is this a rare copy? Is it a legitimate recording? Has anyone heard of this copy? Any information would be appreciated. Thanks, Sean Redefer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:50:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: Bartok's String Quartets > Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:08:29 -0500 > From: William Jenks > > If you want to sample the Bartok string quartets, you need to find a good > recording. Among the best are recordings by the Takac, Keller, Vegh, > Tokyo, and Emerson String quartets. The Takac is the newest of these, and > is very well thought of. (I've not heard it.) There is also an older set by the Takacs (I believe it was the first set ever offered on CD) that is very good, on the Hungaroton label. Their ersion of hte 3rd Quartet, in particular, is hair-raisingly good. The Tokyo SQ also has two sets, IIRC. I have the older one, from DG's 20th C. Classics series. -S. DO NOT ACCEPT THE COOKIE ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:48:26 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Comments on Moles Club First of all, let me note that I still haven't read the last few issues of ET, so I'm not sure what others (except the first review posted) have said .... For me KCCC #11 ranks with #3 as my most prized of the releases. I will grant that there is little "new" here, but frankly, there is a limit on how much REALLY new material there is to release from the various units, even at the present rate of one release per unit per year. That being said, release #11 brings us as close as possible to the magic of when this important quartet was new. The sound quality suffers somewhat from it being an audience tape, but in return it brings us INTO the audience where we hear DISCIPLINE performed live while it was still fresh. The performance is excellent, and we even get to hear Adrian trying to get a club crowd to stop smoking. The importance of the event matched w/ the excellence of the music makes this release essential ... for some. For anyone disappointed with the sound quality, my advise is not to quit the club, but to perhaps not order a release until you've read a few reviews here and are sure you want it. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:55:49 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: First of multiple posts - Re: George Antheil Greetings folks, I've rarely posted in the last little while, but this issue will surely make up for that as there are a number of things on which I wish to opine. I'll do it over several posts, however, not only to avoid one large one, but so that the subject line may more accurately describe the contents. The subject on this one is actually in reference to a perfomance of "Ballet Mecanique" composed by Mr. Antheil which can be heard at: http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/attacca/ And why am I recommending this? Well, those who like "The Devil's Triangle," especially the wilder moments, will surely like this. I realize that it wasn't the inspiration for that piece since, apart from a few performances in the twenties it wasn't played again for sixty years, but there is a similarity to these ears. It's original score called for several player-pianos ("Pianolas"), xylophone, various percussion, bells, sirens, and even an aeroplane propeller. Pretty ambitious for 1924! I won't go into details about the piece. Information can be found at: http://www.antheil.org/. I'll just say this; imagine DT without the Mellotrons, but with a dozen Keith Tippetts. Not for the faint-hearted. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:03:48 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: Les Paul: Pioneer of Looping? In ET 702, Timothy W Cox asked: > In regards to the recent commentary on tape looping etc.. Am I wrong in > acknowledging Les Paul as the pioneer of tape looping and background > recording? Short answer: Yes, you are wrong. Longer answer: But not entirely. Les Paul can be credited not only as an inventor of the electric guitar (and many of the ways it can be played), but a pioneer in tape recording, making use of multitracking and speed changes, for which he had Ampex build the first multitrack recorder. Paul actually did his earliest multitrack work with 78 rpm turntables and recorders, but quickly switched to tape when it became available. He not only turned his guitar into a virtual orchestra, by speeding and slowing the tape he could create deep bass lines and shimmering cascades of notes. Subsequently he turned his wife, Mary Ford, into a rich chorus of voices in tight harmony. Les Paul did all of these things in the 1949-53 period (as well as later). But he never did any looping of which I am aware. --TW (Dr P) dc-et #6 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:03:40 -0400 From: bruce higgins Subject: KCCC #11 As I said to the Guestbook: OK, so Mole's will never be mistaken for a Steely Dan record (production-wise). And the performance is embryonic; this is not yet the band that would change my life a year or two later. But this disc embodies the *exact* the reason why I joined the KCCC, to get the best possible quality recordings of my favourite band at interesting junctures in their evolution. I have now heard recordings of five of the "Discipline" performances, and the Team has not only dredged up the best one, but they have done wondrous things to make it as listenable as it is. I don't think we could have been more clearly warned as to its shortcomings, and frankly, I don't think it sounds that bad. When I want to hear "perfection", I can listen to 'Discipline', or 'KC on Broadway' or 'Absent Lovers' or the 'Roar of P4' or KCCC 10 (people who complain about the sound on that are *way* too picky, BTW)... But if I'm feeling mischievous, and want to eavesdrop on a first, nervous, blind date, and watch the band and the audience feel each other out, alternating timid initiatives, bold glances and frantic gropings, well, then, here you have it. Not the most essential KC release, but one that is welcome on my shelf. Thanks DGM! B___ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:13:47 +0200 From: "frits jurriens" Subject: Trading with DUTCH ET-ers I'd like to trade KC and related music with DUTCH ET-ers I've got some interesting stuff for sure & current hot-items too, [Nashville] but there is still music missing in my collection. That's why there is such a thing as trading ! Mail me privately ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:28:41 -0400 From: Tommy Kochel Subject: Larks' Tongues In Aspic, Part 2 Has anyone else ever noticed that the last four notes/chords of LTIA2 are the descending version of the first four ascending notes of the "Star Spangled Banner" (if you don't count "Oh"): "say can you see"? It's an interesting thought that when it came out in 1973, world wide public opinion was not exactly in favor of the US involvement overseas. Perhaps this served as an "Anti-American Anthem". -- Tommy Kochel Warr Guitar (10-string, mono, Piezo-MIDI) Ashbory Bass Ovation Acoustic-Electric Mandolin "Entertainment is about telling everybody that everything's alright but music is on the side of the upsetters and that's where I'm at." - Bill Bruford, April 10, 1976, Sounds. ------------------------------ Date: Wed Jun 28 15:33:48 2000 From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Re: Whining about CC releases In ET # 702 John Ott wrote: > It would be nice if before the releases are sent > out if the DGM web would have info on the relative > quality of the release so that those that want to > decline a particular release have the information > to do so. I raised this point with the DGM early > on, but it seems to have fallen through the cracks. John, The requests made by Club members on this issue did not fall through the cracks. A while back we implemented changes at DGM Web to provide info about the source and quality of the audio. Not only does DGM provide a rating, but anyone can chime in with their own after the release has been sent out. We try to provide these as early as possible so people can opt out based on the info. Was there something else you had in mind? Dan DGM Web ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:24:28 -0500 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Re: more TCOL-ing "Iscander the Aquarius" wrote... >Songs of TCOL is _nothing_.They sound perfectly, but musically they are >empty.I'm sorry,guys... I'm sure the "guys" aren't too worried! :-) For me these are some of my favorite songs that have been written with Belew singing. Too often the songs sound like Belew music arranged by King Crimson on earlier releases, especially Thrak and TOAPP. I'm happy to say that to me these sound like actual King Crimson songs! >I love the whole KC discography,and when I got me a copy of THRAK in '95 it >blew me away... Glad for you, didn't turn out that way for me. Most of those songs sound like Belew songs (like I stated above). I thought Thrak was way too accessible and straight (and as opposed to TCOL) way too derivitave of their past. It was like "King Crimson Lite," mostly in 4/4 and fairly unadventurous. TCOL is WAY more complex, challenging and technical. All good IMOP! >I definitely could do it with TCOL but with songs >omitted.3 instrumentals and I HAVE A DREAM and PX -that's all that was >needed. For me its the songs of TCOL which are the most forward looking pieces on the album. I think they are a clearer idea of where KC is headed than the instrumentals. >Well,it takes a whole lot of time and inspiration to compose melodies like >that of >Frying Pan-with one guitar going up chromatic scale and one going down.But >it's mathematic-not music then. Pretty bogus statement there, dude! For one thing the part you are referring to in Frying Pan is but a small part of the complete song. Whether you like it or not music often IS mathematical. That doesn't make it "not music" in my book. Music is based on numerical rhythms, chords with numerical numbers, pitches set with specific numerical frequencies etc. etc... >Anyone can invent as many songs as you wish >based on this composing technology :) Let's see you try, smart guy! :-) >Lack of ideas,guys? KC, I can send you tons of my melodies to jam on! Puleeeze! Having delusions of grandeur, are we? You really think you could write better King Crimson songs than King Crimson can? >Adrian-YOU write the songs in KC ! How could you let this happen ? "The >world's my..." -do YOU like this song? YES! I DEFINITELY DO! In fact its one of my favorite songs on the disk. And for that matter, I'm SURE that Belew likes it as well! Its always odd to me that people seem to think that if they like an artist, that the artists MUST share the fan's taste in music. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:35:50 -0700 From: "John O'Connor" Subject: Blasts from the past Some observations from an oldie ;) And some questions ? To be blunt : First contact Bumpers sampler 1970 Cadence and Cascade First Concert 1971 Greyhound Pub Croydon Last Concert Royal Albert Hall May 1995 Next Concert Shepherds Bush Empire 3/07/00 WHICH PUB ARE WE ALL MEETING AT ON MONDAY? To cut the crap: TCOL is excellent, just fit it into the context of a repertoire that spans 30 years CirKus was an early projeKct featuring Mel Collins featuring a distorted reproduction of Norwegian Wood . Apparently KC are using an similar experimental approach with Heroes. Fripp has always been amusingly sarcastic with feeble minded audients. December 1972 Rainbow London(remember this Robert?) an audient had the audacity to start singing puppy love at the quiet part of LTIA at the beginning of the concert (blasphemy to prog rock fans) Robert stopped everything and questioned the audients IQ capacity, audient stops singing blasts Robert with Imperious Quantum Laser, stroboscopic effect sends Jamie Muir into an orgy of blood spitting and metal object bashing. This is the basis of Roberts dislike of bright flashing lights (I exaggerated a bit in there It was actually a Pentax Spotmatic with a very large dinner plate sized flash, the drooling fool was a mirror paper reporter) To give some credit: The remasters are a big thankyou to KC fans and recognise we have gone beyond wind up motors and knitting needles in order to reproduce the sounds. Bumpers introduced me to Nick Drake, I thought he was a KC band member after playing Hazy Jane just after Cadence, I wish he had been. His remasters came out this week, played Northern Light tonight from Bryter Later and literally cried it is so beautiful. Check out the original unedited article Exiled from 1999 MOJO magazine by Ian MacDonald http://www.algonet.se/~iguana/DRAKE/exiled.html Now the question: I have a two totally scratched copies of firstly MacDonald and Giles vinyl LP can this be obtained on CD and also a prog rock band from 70's call Beaver and Kraus (possibly spelt incorrectly) they did some early soundscaping experiments in some sort of cavern (I may be wrong about location) but the effect of echos and Hammond organ was very strange. (Common Tony Lev don't say you had'nt come across this before considering "From the Caves of the Iron Mountain) Look Forward to the distortion in London on Monday next week Jerry Cornelius Time flys like an arrow. Fruit flies like a bannana Groucho Marx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:28:36 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Part two: My thoughts on TCoL I actually broke down and bought my first current KC release since "Beat" (and only the third since that - "ToaPP and "Vrooom" being the others). My reason for buying it: The preview was intriguing enough that I thought it deserved an audition under better conditions - i.e. no noisy computer room in the background. Opinions: It is a worthy effort, and well worth repeated listenings, but with a few details that don't stand up to close scrutiny. I can accept the 5-drums (;-]), since with casual listening they sound fine. I also happen to think that Pat sounds quite similar to Billy-boy on the title track, which is not a negative thing. A few other parts may be questionable, but they're minor. I found the interlocking guitar parts on TCoL and FraKctured to be a little too similar, and not nearly as interesting as those from '81 - '84. Breaking up LTiA IV into movements is a novel idea, and is probably quite effective if, as someone else mentioned, one utilizes the shuffle feature (though I haven't tried it yet myself). I like the instrumental sounds, which seem at times to be both hard and yet brittle, if such a simile is possible. Being a follower from the start though, I still lament the lack of brass; perhaps one day Robert will have a change of heart :-). The songs: This is the area where I have the most difficulty. It's not that I don't like them, I just, erm, don't like them. See what I mean? I can listen to them, but they don't exactly light a fire under the old gluteus maximus. There are actually parts that I do like a lot, most notably the title track, but "Coda..." just seems like a spouting of names/events without any context or explanation of intent. "PB" gets high marks, but mainly because of, as others have mentioned, its similarity to recent Tom Waits which I also enjoy. While it may or may not be intentional, that spectre of The Beatles does haunt Adrian's inflection a bit too much for me. Perhaps it sounds just too "nice" for what I think of as KC in spite of what the words may say. The inclusion of "Heaven and Earth" is definitely a highlight. Certainly a carrot in front of this donkey (for those who think I've just made an ass of myself) for further investigation of the ProjeKcts, my only audio exposure of which up to now has been the snippets of "Space Groove" played before the Fripp soundscapes performance in February '98. I liked those also. BTW, there has been mention of how "LTiA IV" actually sounds more similar to "Red," yet nothing said about the picture that accompanies its section of the booklet. Where have we seen that image before? Jim Bailey Now, what was my next topic? Oh yeah... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 18:30:31 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Third of a Perfect(?) Post: opinions from the tower? Something I've wondered about for some time, even well before the current furious activity, is the extremely rare appearance of opinions from our exalted leaders. Most notable of these is our esteemed (and sometimes steamed - or at least par-boiled) Moderator. Do any of you wish to en"Light"en us with your views of the new offering? I'm certainly not demanding anything, or indeed even suggesting, just curious. You don't even have to respond if such is your wont. Yours curiously, Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:59:44 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Jim's posts in ET: Part IV - Lizard This should be the last one for now. When buying TCoL, I also decided to pick up the 30th anniversary edition of Lizard. This was mainly prompted by listening to my old vinyl copy and noticing how bad the pressing was (not from abuse - I treat my vinyl with the utmost respect). It was a British pressing, dating from probably the late 'seventies, and was in otherwise great shape, especially the (Celanised) cover. Because of that, I decided to go for the regular jewel-case version. The eight dollar price difference was also a deciding factor - does anyone know why there is such a large difference? are the gatefold covers that much more expensive to make, is there something else included, or is it something peculiar to Canada? While the sound quality does seem to be an improvement, most notably in the quieter passages, I thought the vocals could have been boosted a bit. Were the multi-track masters available, or did they have to rely on the two-track? Though not totally inaudible, there are passages where the words seem fully obscured by the instrumental material. It's a minor point, I'll admit, but one which would have increased my enjoyment of what is a desert island KC disc for me. This is the one that got me addicted to anything associated with the Keith Tippett Group as well as its numerous offshoots, parallels, etc., and from there improvised music in general. Definitely a landmark in this life. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:40:24 -0500 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Re: GIG REVIEW: KC In Paris - Why ? (Patrick JOUBERT wrote) >Why such an awful concert in paris yesterday evening ? The "luck" of the draw? >Why KC members performed if they knew that the sound >would be so dirty ? What were they supposed to do? Stand in front of the crowd and tell them all they weren't play cuz the sound was dirty? >Why the sound engineer did not notice that it was >inaudible? Perhaps he did and he remembers the gig to be an endless soundman "nightmare!" Maybe it didn't sound equally as terrible everywhere in the venue as where you were? >Why some people leave the room during the concert ? Why do you care? People have all different reasons for leaving. >Why my ears hurt me so much that i had to put some >piece of handkerchief in them? Maybe its the old saying: "If its too loud, you're too........" >Why did i pay 54$ for this? Ya pays yo money and ya takes yo chance. There is no guarantee when you're dealing with live music. Surely you've been to live rock concerts before, haven't you? A band can't guarantee what's going to happen at every show. I'm sure the fans that were trampled to death at a Who show wondered why they paid their hard earned cash to be senselessly killed! Do you think that was the outcome they had planned on just to see a band live? >Why do i feel betrayed by KC, which is one of my fav' band ? I don't know but you shouldn't. Its not their fault what the gig sounds like, if somebody is ill, if the sound man is having a bad day, if the venue is wrong for their type of music, or if your seat ends up directly behind a support beam! Get over playing the blame game and and just chalk it up to chance. Not all gigs are great, not all seats are awesome. When you go to a show and your seat, the sound, and the band are great, count your blessings, and know that you are lucky! ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #703 ********************************