Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #701 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 701 Monday, 26 June 2000 Today's Topics: Me and Bela the B nessun oggetto Beginner's Guide to KC Collector's Club for TCOL? Next Remasters and Current remasters >3rd chance?< TCOL and KCCC-11 Re: Fripp Hawking Bootlegs ???? [and related CC-bashing] Moles Club/TCOL/etc moles release heros and other stories more Hendrix comments Adrian Belew's "Here" club 11 Moles Club Bath Determining Time Signitures Re: KCCC # 11, live at Moles Club Bath CD..... Re: Appraoching Synthetica The construKCtion of shadows. Reel to reel stuff Moles up for grabs KCCC #11 - Historical importance trumps sound quality Moles Club release/ Sheffield City Hall '71 Re: Paul's Post/Fripp Hawking Bootlegs???? GIG REVIEW: Tony Levin's Pontiac Concert ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 02:27:24 EDT From: Bknt at aol dot com Subject: Me and Bela the B After reading in Mr. Fripp's diary that he wanted to be a musician when he first heard Bela Bartok's string quartets, I obtained a recording and found that what previous generations of music cognoscenti thought was difficult, bleak and depressing (the liner notes indicate that the glissandi in the third quartet "induced hysterics in English audiences") was quite beautiful simply because I was familiar with some of these musical forms from having encountered them previously in Fracture, the various Larks Tongues, as well as the Providence and Starless-and-Bible-Black-improvs. It's interesting to consider that the musical characteristics that offended some concertgoers in Bartok's day are still considered offensive now. Nobody riots when Stravinsky's Rite of Spring is performed, but there still seems to be a big blob of human genetic material out there that flees from the stuff I find so wonderfully characteristic of KC: dissonance, unlikely tempi, moods of anger and despair, and, just when you don't expect it, moments of serene splendor and diabolical humor. Why is it that so many people who like music, react to these qualities with suspicion, contempt and expressions of disgust? Better yet, why is it that some of us, who have permitted Mr. Fripp and KC to bring us these and other adventures-in-stereo over so many years, react with suspicion, contempt and expressions of disgust when we hear music that lacks these qualities? I was pleased that so many years of following Mr. Fripp's musical adventures have made it easier for me to enjoy Bartok's work. The feeling was almost like one of those minor epiphanies we get as we grow older, when experience and circumstance combine so that we finally understand an aspect of our lives that previously seemed mysterious or unattainable. It's likely that some who read ET will go to the string quartets and find them unlistenable. Rather than banish these ET'ers to the basement (where, Norbert Fragg has assured me, advances in scientific hydroponics have made it is possible to grow fruits, vegetables and several varieties of poisonous fungi in house-proud subterranean bliss) I'd rather ask if expressions of taste might not also be assertions of authority, and if we'll ever know what we lose when taste becomes tyranny. Bill Kent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:06:55 +0100 From: Loki <_loki_ at libero dot it> Subject: nessun oggetto Hi there... i've just completed a new transcription of Epitaph.... I send the whole document.... I hope you will publish. Thanks Niccol=F2 Zanzi. [ We'll put this up on ETWeb. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:04:47 +0100 From: "Jerry Cook" Subject: Beginner's Guide to KC Collector's Club for TCOL? If anyone would like to trade TCOL for my Beginner's Guide To The King Crimson Collector's Club (DGM Mail Order) please email me. Cheers, Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 13:13:01 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Next Remasters and Current remasters At 05:05 PM 6/22/00 GMT, Benjamin Adler wrote: > >2. Is there a release date for the Wetton-era KC discs in the current >remaster series??? Will these be in >mini-gatefold form??? > The official word I had heard was that the next three were slated to be released in September. However, comments from a David Singleton interview suggested it could be later than that. As with the rest, they will be in the mini-LP sleeves. However, it should be noted that Lark's Tongue in Aspic and Red were not gatefolds when originally released and so might not be gatefolds in these releases either. Then Brad Wilmot wrote: >I was able to get all but Lizard (including In >The Court) in the gatefold format through the Artist's shop. The packaging >was so great I went nuts trying to find Lizard (apparently the first title >to sell out everywhere). However, since the second pressing, all four of the remastered titles, including Lizard, are well stocked. But don't expect this stock to last forever. So whether you get them from The Artist Shop, DGM or wherever you prefer to shop, get them now or you'll end up paying exhorbitant prices on eBay for them! (although I should mention that they'll eventually get a non-limited release in gem boxes as opposed to the current limited edition mini-LP sleeve packaging) Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:23:17 +0200 From: "ric.com" Subject: >3rd chance?< being one of the many unfortunate people who had been looking forward to the austrian crimso concerts & were bitterly disappointed by the sad fact that they were cancelled - possibly particularly sad for me as i had waited 20 (!) years to see crimso live - i wonder if fate might compensate me for the disappointment. by a stroke of luck i shall be in london on july, 4. if anybody happens to know how i could get a ticket for the show - or has a spare ticket to sell - please be so good as to contact me. by the way: i find it sorely disappointing that neither of the musicians found it necessary to comment on the cancelling, or to at least mention whether alternative dates were considered in the 10 days since the concert was cancelled. one would think that those online diaries would be the perfect medium for fast, simple & soothing messages of that kind. wish you well - ric* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:45:51 +0200 From: "Scheepers, Hans" Subject: TCOL and KCCC-11 Hi, Mixed feelings this month on latest KC releases. First the bad news: KCCC-11. The most disappointing Club-item so far. The quality of the sound is very poor, that attempts to listen to the music is often disturbed by the awful quality of the recording itself. I hope future releases will at least have much better quality, otherwise the current members should be warned before considering continuation of membership. The good news: TCOL. Bought this in a local shop. First rate music for me. I noticed some comments that the regular, quiet song is missing, but this is not for me. The album is an excellent result of the Projekct 4 box. Bravo. Cheers, Hans. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:48:15 -0500 (CDT) From: david craig Subject: Re: Fripp Hawking Bootlegs ???? [and related CC-bashing] People unclear on the concept, example 13: > If this is not a bootleg I don't know what is !!! And a very BAD > bootleg too.. The sound on this is abhorant to say the least. For the record, I am *thrilled* Fripp is finally getting out some material from the 80's edition of King Crimson. It's about tootin' time. And I'd dearly love to see more. How about the Savoy from 1981, or Berkeley 1982? David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 18:03:27 -0400 From: "wvroland" Subject: Moles Club/TCOL/etc Greetings to all fellow ETers, Let me preface by saying that the following comments are not meant as a bash against anyone...now on with the show. I recall early on when the Collectors Club was starting that Robert made a comment to all potential club members, something along the lines of 'some of the material will have better sound quality than others' and, also paraphrasing here, 'if you don't want to chance it, then by all means don't join'. I understand some folks' disappointment at the sound of the Moles Club CD, but I am thrilled to hear the pre-KC incarnation of Discipline in all its muddy sounding glory. I was in junior high school when the Discipline album came out-it was my first encounter with anything Crimson, and I guess it's still my benchmark album by which all other KC albums are judged (please no bashes). The Moles CD is fascinating for the time and era it brings back, a time when Gang Of Four, Talking Heads and others of their ilk were the "alternative" bands of their day. I loved what KC brought forth with Discipline, and I love hearing this prequel if you will. Now, on to TCOL. I haven't been as excited by a KC release since the above mentioned Discipline. Don't get me wrong, I loved Thrak and I saw them in New Haven on that 95 tour and they were tremendous. I just love the whole flow of this album. The V drums don't bother me, and whatever you may think of it, the album still sounds like no one else but King Crimson. Do I miss Bill and Tony? Well, the answer is that this isn't an incarnation of KC with Bill and Tony, so the question is moot (at this point, I really hope Fripp is reading, cause THAT was a great line I just wrote eh?). I also appreciate that TCOL's sound can be fairly well traced through the evolution of each ProjeKct-it's all there, from One to Four, in a blending that can again only be Crimson. So, that's about it from me. I'll close by mentioning that I first discovered Fripp by trying to find out who did the blazing solos on Bowie's "Heroes" and Blondie's "One Way Or Another". When I found out it was our Bob, I began my exploration of his work. So there....til next time Bill Roland Somewhere in CT ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 18:53:29 -0400 From: "rs" Subject: moles release This is an historical document and has value regardless of audio quality, appreciate as such. This is before the album was recorded. They practiced for ONLY 3 weeks before this! The FIRST ever public performance of "Red"!!! Can you believe they play Discipline that tight? Sneaking in some lyrics from Exposure. Way cool! Also at the DGM site they gave an Audio rating of the release (the lowest yet) prior to the refusal cut off. They gave an audio sample I know its hard to tell, but you could get a hint by the vocals) They also said it was an unauthorized recording. Paul, there is no reason to be surprised of what you were getting. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 00:30:25 +0100 From: "mark" Subject: heros and other stories A couple of bits and pieces. First of all I've just watched David Bowie at glastonbury (live bbc2 uk) doing Heros - it must be said having heard the KC in Nashville stuff on BTV that the KC version is MUCH better than Bowies current version.... the few bits of Bowie they did show looked excellent though - unfortunatley they kept cutting to Basment Jaxx who whilst they looked like it would have been great to be there didn't really work on tv. >It would be nice to find a way to keep track of all the special things that >have hapened during the different show of the current tour so that when >BootTV mooves into high gear we could all choose a selection of show we'd >like. I heartely concur....suddenly having access to a whole tour is going to be overwhelming - that added to the fact that my job is full on - a guide to which ones to catch and (hopfully) buy from BTV would be very useful. Talking of this KC live - I have just got my copy of The Great Deciver - the two bands (2000 & 73/4) share an energy and intensity that is incredible. For me anyway I suspect that this incarnation (2000) is going to be one of the really special ones (NOTE: this is MY feeling only - repeat after me "we are all different" :-) ) >Fripp posted no notices saying "NO PICTURES" - "NO >RECORDINGS" - "NO SMOKING", >Fripp leaves the stage without a blink, and a embarassed >Ade says desolately: "I think Robert says goodnight". Given that this is something Robert has a huge problem with and some people are clearly mind numbingly stupid the signs should probably read "Photography will result in the termination of the show". (the words are probably a bit long for the people concerned to understand but I am sure an appropriate version could be concocted). sorry about the spelling.... cheers mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:12:22 -0400 From: Daniel Pepper Subject: more Hendrix comments hi** i didn't realize that my Hendrix post would spark so many comments..hehe..i think there is an interview or two with Fripp on this very webpage where he talks about Hendrix! if someone wants, they can check the interview section..hehe..buhbyez ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:43:52 -0400 From: Block Dog Subject: Adrian Belew's "Here" >From: "Enzo D. Lamberti" >Subject: Adrian Belew's Here P.S.: now i need more Ade's work...what do i have to buy first? Help me! Op Zop Too Wah Mr. Music Head Inner Revolution Young Lions Dersire of the Rhino King These would make a good place to start. :) Watch for Dust ! Block -- Those with power and influence only feel themselves slowly sinking, and no matter how beautiful one's Titanic may be, the word "unsinkable" just makes the ocean hungry. David Wilcox ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:26:52 PDT From: "bruce jensen" Subject: club 11 Moles Club Bath I found this a very welcome CD. Aware that a bootleg has been available, I've been looking forward to a club release of the first Discipline show. There have been some complaints about sound quality and that the source was an audience recording (read: bootleg) . Both were duly noted on the Club release page at the DGM site though. No one who cares enough to check ahead should have been suprised or disapointed by either. I'm sure much of the value of this release is that it is the first performance of this Crimson formation...and despite it's lo-fi quality I 've played, and enjoyed it several times since receiving it 3 days ago. Bruce Jensen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 02:56:06 EDT From: ADAMSHSHLD at cs dot com Subject: Determining Time Signitures I have been a reader of ET for about 2 years now, and have seen a lot of mentions of time signitures, and counting them. I, not being a musician, was wondering how you would go about counting time signitures? I know that KC have used odd ones throughout their history, but I would like to understand them further. Thanks a lot. Bryan "Look at you, you're dancing in 7/8" ?????? -Ade ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:19:09 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Re: KCCC # 11, live at Moles Club Bath CD..... >far it has. But this......This is plain shit as much as it hurts to state >the obvious. I cannot wait to see more postings on this...As far as I am >concerned all us club members should get a free CD tacked onto our current >memberships to make up for this release....Mr. Fripp you should be ashamed >of this release and keep in mind that we are fans not fools....Bootlegs- >Now you are the guilty party....Peace to all..... If you have KCCC#1 and 2, Moles Club is much better sounding anyway. I must say I am totally satisfied with that one. It probably has something to do with the fact that this incarnation is by far the most interesting for me. I probably would not be there if they had not decided to play that concert and then release the red/blue/yellow trilogy. And I find these rough renditions after three mere weeks rehearsals to be an interesting diversion to what is already available, so I listen and quickly forget the bad sound quality. (BTW, has anybody noticed that this is the only version of Red NOT played in E?) But I can understand your feelings. I had exactly the same reaction with Central Park, which was the one too much for me. I knew the music inside had very low interest for me, but after asking the origin of the tape to DGM and getting no answer, I didn't opt out, hoping until the last minute that it would at least be of the same quality as TGD and USA. Alas, when I received yet another audience recording, I felt cheated and posted on the GB to say that club members should at least be told before deciding to opt out or not what the origin of the tape and sound quality to the next selection is. And now, thanks to Dan K., you have it for each club release on a separate page: the origin of the tape and a DGM sound quality rating. I must add that the sound reconstruKction work is totally amazing. T-Lev's low end is incredibly clear on CLUB11, which probably was not the case on the original recording. It doesn't show much because the overall sound remains of bad quality, but you never would have this on an unofficial bootleg, and this is another case of great commitment by DGM people (whoever they are: I am quite sure David and Robert had very low involvement in that one, despite the production being credited to them). And for the music, there is still lots to discover, but the incredible amount of "Clams Crimsonique" on Frame by Frame (which would otherwise be boring) and the uncertain ending of Elephant Talk alone make this worth having for me. And, BTW, upcoming CLUB12 is another "unauthorised" recording, so don't expect any improvement in quality! ____________________________________________________________________________ Laurent Masse masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr ____________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:56:59 +0000 From: Andreas Schoter Subject: Re: Appraoching Synthetica In ET#699, following up on a comment in ET#698 Craig wrote: >RE: the recently discussed CD >by David Sylvian called 'Approaching Silence'. > >>And a heart warming surprise to find the following liner note: "My warmest >>thanks to Holger Czukay for supplying me with sample material". > >Why a surprise? They have worked together extensively for a very long time. >Holger & Sylvian previously did two albums in collaboration. One was Plight >& Premonition, the other (I`ve forgotten the title). Both are wonderful. The other Sylvian/Czukay release is "Flux + Mutability", from 1989 on Virgin. Andreas ________________________________________________________________________ Dr Andreas Schoter, Intertrader Ltd http://www.intertrader.com Tel: +44(0)131 553 0380, Fax: +44(0)131 553 0381 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:48:17 +0200 From: Alberto Subject: The construKCtion of shadows. Dear Crimheads, This is the very first time I have not been impressed by a KC's new work. Every time I've listened to a new KC release something special happened to me. It was a mixture of happiness and personal growth. Very difficult to express with words, specially in english which is not my language (I'm a spaniard). The point is that after having listened TCOL, a cold feeling run through my body and I'm still wondering what happened to Mr. Fripp to having called that King Crimson istead of having named it "Project X". Personally, I think that this is not KC. If you listen any of the previous records of Crimson from ITCOTCK to Thrak or Vrooom or whatever you want you can see it and feel it perfectly. And finally, and again under my impression, I strongly recommend Mr. Fripp to reinforce the drums and percussions. It has definitely failed this time. Mr. Mastelotto is the responsible for the construction of all the shadows of the record. I'm very sorry for that, but I have let my soul talk. Thanks for your attention and looking forward to a real new KING CRIMSON release, Kindest regards even to Pat. From Spain with love. Alberto. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:57:40 +0200 From: John Sowerby Subject: Reel to reel stuff >Richard Pinhas is said to have come up >with a looping method not unlike Mr. Fripp's early reel-to-reel endeavors >as early as 1967. Anyone have information on this or want to comment on Mr. >Pinhas' guitar looping technique? > I don't know about Mr. Pinhas' looping techniques, but one use of tape looping around earlier than R. Fripp's was the BBC sound effects dept, particularly the BBC Radiphonic Workshop. If you have the complete scripts for 'The Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy,' then at some point in the notes then Douglas Adams points out that what Fripp called 'Frippertronics' was a standard way of producing effects for the radio series. Of course, it also has huge amounts of Fripp and Eno music as background music as well... John. Dr John Sowerby, (home) Bayerisches Geoinstitut, Parkstrasse 3, Universitaet Bayreuth, D - 95444 BAYREUTH, D - 95440 BAYREUTH, Germany. Germany. phone: (0)921 553717 phone: (0)921 5160437 e - mail: John dot Sowerby at uni-bayreuth dot de or: jrs at stones dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:03:24 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: Moles up for grabs Hadn't meant to get this, but an admin error (mine, not DGM's, I'm pretty sure) meant it showed up. Hummed and Harred about returning it but broke the shrink wrap and found that though the playing is interesting the boot quality recording means I can't see me getting many plays at all out of it. This isn't a complaint (we were clearly warned), but just a preamble to "does anyone fancy a copy of the Moles CD for a tenner?" Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:54:05 -0400 From: "Mark D. White" Subject: KCCC #11 - Historical importance trumps sound quality Paul wrote: >Yesterday I received KCCC # 11, live at Moles Club Bath CD..... > >If this is not a bootleg I don't know what is !!! And a very BAD bootleg >too.. The sound on this is abhorant to say the least. I think this item was released to Club members due to its historical significance, despite any substandard sound quality. I myself love hearing first, last, or otherwise historically significant shows by bands or line-ups thereof, and am willing to put up with subpar sound to do so. Just my opinion to add to the pile... Later, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:47:24 EDT From: "John Spokus" Subject: Moles Club release/ Sheffield City Hall '71 Hello, Nothing like a club release to help the newsletter shift gears a bit from TCOL (which I have to admit I totally dislike the disc). Come on guys , the Moles Club show is an interesting piece and the sound isn't that bad. I own plenty of boots that sound much worse that I still find enjoyable. Much of Belew's lyrics and vocal style seem to be a work in progress at this first Discipline gig. Seems like the guitars are going a little out of tune at one point(a first in any KC show I've heard). I agree that there is nothing really earth-shattering about this release, but I can't totally condemn it as some have and I do love the '81 band.I had really been looking forward to this release (as well as the next, Hyde Park '69)since it's announcement, and especially after the major disappointment of TCOL (first KC release that I can't stand). On a totally different note, I recently obtained a copy of the Sheffield City Hall show from '71. Interesting version of Sailor's Tale totalling 15 + minutes with an improv that reminds me quite a bit of the more avante-garde section of Moonchild. Has anyone else heard the same thing ? This could be a potential club release. The sound overall is certainly better than the Plymouth show which someone else once suggested, and the set is similar; ITCOCK, Get Thy Bearings are included,rare for the Islands line-up. John Spokus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:09:47 -0400 From: "Snow, Rick" Subject: Re: Paul's Post/Fripp Hawking Bootlegs???? I got Mole's Club in the mail this past Friday. With all the talk on TCOL/Project X/Gig Reviews, well, I wasn't even expecting it. And I found it to be an unadulterated delight! The release of that disc at this time is precisely what we all need. It is fun--it is wonderful--and it helps put all this hubbub about the aforementioned releases into both psychic and historical perspective. The King Crimson's Collectors Club has never promised sonic perfection. If that is what you are interested in, go elsewhere. It has promised interesting historical documents of a great band in its different phases and incarnations. And it has delivered in spades. Don't bother sending me a make-up disc--this one is bonus enough!! R Snow ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:38:07 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Tony Levin's Pontiac Concert Tony Levins "Waters of Eden" concert last night at the 7th House in Pontiac, Michigan, was great. Wed gathered in line prior to the concert, a small audience but enthusiastic audience, waiting, people talking, looking at sculptures at art the gallery adjoining the club. Tony made periodic appearances descending stairs, taking the elevator opposite. As the door remained close at 8:00 opening, Tony appeared, walking down the line, saying that theyd hadnt even did the sound check yet, apologizing for the delay. Somebody mentioned after that most "stars" would be happy with "screw the audience" sentiment. It turned out there were problems with the wiring, or in setting up, which set the night back by an hour or so. What a great concert! Im pretty sedate these days, not much of a headbanger, but the infectious rhythmic genius (considering the predilection of many big-time rock stars for spectacle) of the musicians shook me out of self-absorption. The music consisted of the superlative "Waters of Eden" recording, "Elephant Talk," with superlative guitar by Jesse Gress, and two Peter Gabriel numbers, including "Back in New York" from the great "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" album. The concert began with keyboard sequencing by Larry Fast; then, Tony, Jesse Gress, and the superlative Jerry Marotta entering through the audience on drums. That was a great touch, especially in rupturing the division between musicians and audience, as Adrian Belew had done in his concert here last summer. Tony is a friendly, warm, considerate man. The concert ended a half-hour after midnight, but Tony waited at the door signing records, in my case his new album and the new KCCC recording, "Live at Moles Club," which seemed appropriate as he had written the liner notes. I guess the guy behind me was into major fetish, compared to my minor one, as he had a bag full of Tony Levin stuff. Running through the rain-soaked night, we were wet but happy people. I bought "The Great Deceiver" box-set from the DGM wesbite at the beginning of this month, and it is currently my favorite Crimson recording, even as much as I love TCOL; I just read at the website that due to demand, its going to be released for retail sale. I wonder if the price will be the same $80.50 I paid? Michael ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #701 ********************************