Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #700 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 700 Sunday, 25 June 2000 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: London gig GIG BIZ: The side lines INDISCIPLINE lista de King Crimson en espa=?ISO-8859-1?B?8Q==?=ol expandingclubpicture Fripp Hawking Bootlegs ???? Pre-Frippertronics? You need a haircKut ... Toyah albums with Fripp Re: Radical post: Kill KC!!! Robert Fripp Non-KC Works Moles Club Btv strategiKc preparation Hendrix, James Baldwin, and KC The ConstruKction of Light GIG REVIEW: Legnano 22-6 GIG REVIEW: Roma GIG REVIEW: Rome Gig Review - Robert says goodnight ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:59:35 +0100 From: "bott" Subject: GIG BIZ: London gig Are there any Crimheads in Derby travelling to the Shepherds Bush Gig? I have my ticket and am currently travelling alone to the gig, but would be happy to share transport with any Derby Crimheads. Any takers, please e-mail direct at bott at supanet dot com Andy Bott (a Derby Crimhead Billy No-mates!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:00:47 EDT From: "Donnon Murray" Subject: GIG BIZ: The side lines Before flying back to the States,after my brief interactions with Crimson Tour, I decided to spend my last few days in London since that's where I'm flying out of anyway. On a King Crimson related note I attempted to see the Brian Eno installation at the Hayward Gallery but sadly I was too late and the gallery is closed until July while they prepare for the next exhibit. On an even more Crimson related note, not to mention a more successful one, I did get to see Bill Bruford's Earthworks here at the Pizza Express Jazz Club in Soho and it was wonderful. I was even more fortunate in that I was able to catch guitarist Larry Coryell's last night with the band. Bruford was great- mathematical and precise,as usual. As someone near me commented, a "very English drummer". Sometimes doing with one hand what many do with two, often adding some drama at just the right moment, Bruford was a joy to watch and listen to. Larry Coryell and the rest of the group were great as well . ET readers who are London residents would do well to check out one of the remaining shows of Bruford's week long residency there though Larry Coryell has gone back to the States. And alas, so must I... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 01:20:23 +0200 From: Luis Ruiz Subject: INDISCIPLINE lista de King Crimson en espa=?ISO-8859-1?B?8Q==?=ol Hi all: INDISCIPLINE es la lista en espanol de King Crimson. Aqui puedes hablar libremente de todo lo referente a King Crimson, Robert Fripp, miembros que han pasado por la banda y cuestiones relativas a las carreras individuales de cada uno de ellos. Tambien puedes opinar sobre otras bandas y estilos paralelos a los de King Crimson. Totalmente en castellano. INDISCIPLINE is the new King Crimson`s list in spanish. For join: Post message: Indiscipline at egroups dot com Subscribe: Indiscipline-subscribe at egroups dot com Unsubscribe: Indiscipline-unsubscribe at egroups dot com -- SALUD LUIS luisruiz at euskalnet dot net http://web.jet.es/luisruiz ICQ 57375522 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:55:17 -0400 From: spanky50 at impop dot bellatlantic dot net Subject: expandingclubpicture Hey,anybody notice the picture ,expanding with each new club release on the sides of their CD cases?Am I late or just easily ammused. P.S. I missed out on club 1 and 2 . Aaaah MrFripp.? sorry. Enjoying everything. Thanks.! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 08:25:20 EDT From: PR1955 at aol dot com Subject: Fripp Hawking Bootlegs ???? First I must state I am and have been a KC fan since 1969 and after seeing my first KC show in ' 69 at the Fillmore East I have not missed an East Coast show (sans Nashville-damn it) since and have stuck with Mr. Fripp and gang for all it's incarnations. I sate this first to avoid any bashings I may get for what I am about to state.... Yesterday I received KCCC # 11, live at Moles Club Bath CD..... If this is not a bootleg I don't know what is !!! And a very BAD bootleg too.. The sound on this is abhorant to say the least. Most of the time you cannot even hear Mr. Bruford's druming and there is no mix to this at all. What in Gods name is Fripp thinking??? Is this what he thinks us fans want. Crappy sounding audience tapes burned onto CD's......I am a fan (fanatic) and will hang in there with the club because yes I want as much KC as I can get. When joining the club I felt Fripp had plenty of good to great stuff in his collection/possesion to release and it would only serve to show us fans the evolving nature of his musical visions and to a large extent so far it has. But this......This is plain shit as much as it hurts to state the obvious. I cannot wait to see more postings on this...As far as I am concerned all us club members should get a free CD tacked onto our current memberships to make up for this release....Mr. Fripp you should be ashamed of this release and keep in mind that we are fans not fools....Bootlegs- Now you are the guilty party....Peace to all..... Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:47:34 -0700 From: MT Subject: Pre-Frippertronics? There are claims that guitar virtuoso Richard Pinhas played some duets with Robert Fripp in the early seventies. Richard Pinhas is said to have come up with a looping method not unlike Mr. Fripp's early reel-to-reel endeavors as early as 1967. Anyone have information on this or want to comment on Mr. Pinhas' guitar looping technique? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 13:48:39 -0500 From: "David F. Snyder" Subject: You need a haircKut ... I personally love the guitar-as-piano sound in Oyster. Plus it fits in with (what I think is) one of the many themes of the song - multiple functions for single objecKts. NSFAQ (not so frequently asked question): Has anybody caught the entirety of what Adrian is ad libbing at the end of PB? cheers, david ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:30:23 -0400 From: "Albert Oller" Subject: Toyah albums with Fripp Does anybody have either Prostitute or Desire by Toyah? What are they like? I have Sunday All Over The World's CD, and Ophelia's Shadow; are these two similar in any way to the previous two albums? Are there any other Toyah albums that Robert Fripp plays on? Has anybody been able to get these in the U.S.? Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:56:39 -0400 From: "Albert Oller" Subject: Re: Radical post: Kill KC!!! I am not here to shoot you! "... kill the name KC" I think Markus made some good observations, but came to the wrong conclusion. Why should King Crimson change its name because we the listeners cannot appreciate what they are doing? If it is we that have the problem we should change ourselves, not ask the others to change. This is especially the case when we are being offered such a beautiful gift as that which King Crimson presents to us. If the music fits the name King Crimson let it name itself, and then let it in. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 23:07:34 +0100 From: "Andrew Dearden" Subject: Robert Fripp Non-KC Works A simple question, I hope. Which of Robert Fripp's solo or collaborative albums would ETers recommend to someone like myself, who possesses a good deal of the KC catalogue, but none of the aforementioned works? Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 19:48:39 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Moles Club Greets, Club 11 is in an odd place. The sound is the worst offially released recording of the Belew era. The listener is mercifully ejected as a train wreck approaches in Frame by Frame which is already suffering from an abysmal mix (where's Fripp) and yet overall this is a very intriguing cd. We've heard all this material masterfully executed by musicians who can, and perhaps sometimes do, execute it in their sleep. That's why these versions are so interesting. The material is precariously fresh to the band. Things that have since become passe are radical new pieces. Parts are being tried that will soon be jettisoned. It is fascinating to hear where the arrangements were when this music began. All the pieces are in a swirling experimental stage. The Beat Club cd had a similar vibe for the Lark's band. I was surprised that Indiscipline had a drum solo at this early stage. I had always thought it had evolved later. It is also the first time in years I have heard it with the stiffer original beat instead of the hint of swing they have been playing it with since at least the Beat tour. Adrian's quirky vocals have long since become his own, but at the beginning, he was doing David Byrne. Thela is more frantic and spontaneous. The Talking Heads and League Of Gentlemen both reach out to touch this early incarnation of King Crimson. For all it's faults and because of them this is a cd worth having for the historical perspective if not always for the music. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 19:21:10 PDT From: "alexis rondeau" Subject: Btv strategiKc preparation It would be nice to find a way to keep track of all the special things that have hapened during the different show of the current tour so that when BootTV mooves into high gear we could all choose a selection of show we'd like. We would need the setlist to all the show. The comments of our 3 road-diary-enthousiast about what made each show a special one. I want to know when they really "nailed" Lark's IV or Kitchen Oister thing..., when AB started signing that Beatles tune, when he ended up playing over Seizure with his acoustic guitar or when they all got mixed up! Anyway, I think you an see where I getting at. I hope something comes out of this. AlX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 01:30:21 EDT From: Signify71 at aol dot com Subject: Hendrix, James Baldwin, and KC I've been an on-again, off-again reader/subscriber for six years, since about issue 159 or 160 back in late 1994. As a rule, I *never* post, not anymore, seeing as how the arena has changed since then. I often feel that most of what I would like to say would be of little to no import to the list, and I tend to hold differing opinions regarding "hot" topics. No sense in causing commotion when it is not necessary. I ran across something recently that I thought may be of interest. I (finally) picked up Hendrix's reissue of "Are You Experienced?", and in the liner notes, Dave Marsh quotes a passage from James Baldwin's "Sonny's Blues," a short story I used to teach in grad school (the time in which I discovered KC and this list). With all the recent banter regarding Hendrix, TCOL good or bad, etc., I thought I would pass this along; it seems to apply somehow: "He and his boys were up there keeping it new, at the risk of ruin, destruction, madness, and death, in order to find new ways to make us listen. For, while the tale of how we suffer, and how we are delighted, and how we may triumph it is never new, it always must be heard. There isn't any other tale to tell, *it's the only light we've got in all this darkness*." (emphasis mine) If you haven't read the story, check it out. Baldwin is yet another great lost voice in the canon of 20th century American literature. So what does all this have to do with KC? Everything and nothing, I suppose. But when I go to sleep tonight, I will sleep with the peace of knowing that KC, in all its incarnations, and through its vast recorded output, really is the only light I have in the darkness of my life. In a world where I could have allowed myself to be so affected by lesser things, I am grateful RF and co. continue to construKct light. And I know I'm not alone. Thanks (apologies for length, relativity and quoting without permission), Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 01:49:58 -0400 From: "Jay Black" Subject: The ConstruKction of Light For all of those who would "dis" TCOL, I have this to say...it is King Crimson. That's what it is. That's all it is. Listen to it. Like it. Don't like it. I don't care. It is King Crimson. You may not like the V drums, or whatever, and God know knows, I miss Tony and Bill, but it is what it is, and what it is is good. Get over it. Won't you feel bad if the next album has Tony and Bill on it, and it is "not worthy?" What will you say then? Think about it. I trust Robert. Don't you? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:25:32 +0200 From: "Marco Chrappan" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Legnano 22-6 Hi, I'm Marco from Italy. This is my first post and my first KC concert so my scarce knowledge could make its appearance throughout the post occasionally. Yesterday at Legnano (near Milan) there was this gig I went with a friend of mine who only listened to Thrak sometimes. I was anxious about the concert and the other people too! The audience was really mixed, boys, girls, teenagers, husbands and their wives. One guy before the gig shouted "He did not bring the cymbals too!" referring to the V-drum set which was nearly visible on the stage. The concert started with "Frying Pan" followed by "TCoL". The sound was just right speaking in terms of volume (I was in the rear section, I bought the cheap ticket, my greatest mistake!) the Warr guitar and the bassdrum had a sharp attack but the rest sounded weak (the snares, the guitar and voice). Then came the 1st improvisation which I did not like much. They also played "Dinosaur", "One time" "Cage" "Vroom" and still 3 tracks from TCol "FraKctured" "The World's my Oyster soup" and "Larks Part 4" which they played smoothly. They gained some applause during the song for this one. They did another improv as a break up to the concert during these 3 songs. Then Belew to say things like "Thanks! Goodbye!" but obviously no one believed to Adrian which came back to the stage (only him with a beautiful red acoustic gtr) and played a great version of "Three of a perfect pair". The people gave him a standing ovation. Two other encored followed: "Sex, sleep, eat, drink, dream" and another improvisation. This one was really incredible, so emotional with a great solo by Trey Gunn. The sound was good but I expected it to be slightly better. I'm not convinced about the V-Drums in a live concert. The kick was really powerful but the choices of sounds and the mixing buried the drumming beyond the guitars. There was no dynamics in the playing of Mastellotto even if he played some good part through the concert. The tracks from "TCol" went pretty well but the ones from "Thrak" did not appealed me so much! The double duo gave a better rendition of them. My personal hero of the evening was Trey Gunn, he also a played a really small bass and I thinked for some seconds he was playing his T-shirt (!!) because they both were black and I could not distinguish one from another in my position. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 01:20:14 +0200 From: "Giancarlo Buzzanca" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Roma Dear friends, some notes comin' back from the KC concert 1) "please don't take any picture. It's a formal request from Robert" the speaker's voice for three times before the concert; 2) excellent music, a lot of new music, the Robert' leadership is more evident compared to the double trio; 3) some technical problems with the Adrian's guitars; 4) "please don't take any picture" A formal request from the voice of Robert 5) lthe volume of the music must be lower than 92 dB (it's a municipal law for protect the neighbor ) 6) one hour of great emotion 7) bis; a solo from Adrian, a trio (Robert, Trey, Pat) 8) in the beginning of another bis OH GOD A FLASH!!!! 9) stop, Robert said "Good night!" 10) a multitude of enthusiast without music ... Good Night (listening the CoL) Giancarlo Buzzanca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 16:11:10 +0200 From: "Sergio Lombardi (Tin)" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Rome Gig Review - Robert says goodnight ROBERT SAYS "GOODNIGHT" - Rome, June 23rd, 2000 We were concerned about Ade's health (2 gigs in Austria cancelled last week), browsing frantically ET-DGM-KCNN pages for good news. Another Kc Roman date was cancelled in 1982, so we crossed our fingers and....at last, the King Crimson entered the Town of Seven Kings. The venue: the building site for the ConstruKction of Roman new (very expensive) Auditorium. Knowing Italian audience's indiscipline, Fripp posted no notices saying "NO PICTURES" - "NO RECORDINGS" - "NO SMOKING", which would have beeen ignored (see below). After 1+ Soundscapes hour and 4+ announcements in Italian language, forbidding pictures and promoting BootlegTv, the Kconcert begins with Frying Pan. The sound: fantastic since the beginning of the show and all the settings were perfect. The songs versions: far away better than Nashville warm up, after more than one month playing around. The Crims are very jazzy tonight, so they improvise a lot. Ade's sheet features a tracklist very similar to other TCOL tourdates, including Frying Pan - TCOL - PX - Dinosaur - One Time - (Frakctured) - LTIA IV - Cage - Oyster - PX2 - Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream - Vroom - TOAPP - P3 - (ProzaKc Blues) - (Heroes), but the final tracklist will be very different. RF is the King, unmoved wax mask looking only at his musicians, directing the sound technicians with authoritarian gestures. AB is the Jester, joking, laughing, jumping, performing impossible acrobatic solos, hitting his guitar a la Townshend, consequently breaking two strings. PM is the Demon, pressing the other performers by hitting those diabolic pads with animal energy, screaming: an earthquake! TG is the Wizard, skimming delicately his powerful artifacts with two magic, wise hands. Highlights of the show: TCOL - LTIA IV - ProjeKct improvisations (in an impro RF played Schizoid solo) Musicians' roles and instruments' voices mutate so continuously that any fan still used to a traditional guitar-bass-drums rock scheme would miss a lot of details, loosing the sense of a concert so dynamic. So Fripp's historical Gibson sounds now like a Fender Rhodes Piano, now like a Saloon Piano, now like a Jazz Bass; Pat's pads are in constant change and we wonder how he can remember all sound patterns. Everything was going fine, and the double duo Kc incarnation had swept away any nostalgia for Bruford & Levin, when some fool flashes his camera in Fripp's eye. Very politely, RF goes to Ade's mic, saying: "an announcement from the guitarist: no photos please!". As a Royal retaliation against Rome, Frakctured is cut from the set (few noticed this, including us, having read Ade's tracksheet). The concert ends with a fantastic Vroom. Encores: Adrian performs a lovely acoustic TOAPP, impressed by our enthusiastic reaction. Then Ade leaves and P3 enters the stage, playing a delicate, dreaming improvisation, including a jewel solo by Trey. When Ade joins the Band, ready to play ProzaKc Blues, another genius (or the same?) flashes again his camera: Fripp leaves the stage without a blink, and a embarassed Ade says desolately: "I think Robert says goodnight". Lights on, audience shocked. END Question: how can such a wonderful performance be spoiled by a Neanderthal, still using a camera in BootlegTv era? I knew from the High School time (1981) that Fripp hates flashes (see also recent newsletters about bootlegging and RF's diary). Message for Italian fans: Complimenti a quel genio che ha scattato le foto: ora ficcatele nel culo! Sergio Lombardi - Rome - ITALY ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #700 ********************************