Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #691 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 691 Friday, 9 June 2000 Today's Topics: Door squeaks; shouting at concerts; "smart-asses"; Elephant Shout; Trust Boots and Approaching Silence Is God really dead? Medacognitions and fragments during the initial listening ofTCOL My friends moral dilemma. Ade's vocals forcing KC upon your friends :-) Mogul Thrash Re: Serge Girard's "Mexico City 1996" post TCOL Similarities Levin Live Old Crimson Bootlegs Questions about the "Ladies of the Road" release ?? ...I'll drink all the time... GIG REVIEW: 07.06.2000, stadthalle, offenbach (am main), germany ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:10:11 -0400 From: "Albert Oller" Subject: Door squeaks; shouting at concerts; "smart-asses"; Elephant Shout; Trust > I'm sure there are some fans who would praise a door squeak if King >Crimson released it on the album... :-) There is a door squeak on Exposure ... and I like it. If you have to shout at a concert do it before, between or after the music being played. Never make distractions while music is being played, and that includes any long pauses that may be part of the music (unless the band invites the audience to participate that way). I doubt that anybody is going to the concert to hear the audience members perform, I think that people are going to hear the band perform. It is incredibly rude and selfish to make noise while others are trying to listen. It is also incredibly rude and selfish to make noise while the band is trying to play. Here is just one example of the effect that "cool" audience participation can have: On the last KC tour Adrian Belew started to rush through the lyrics of "Indiscipline". Perhaps Mr. Belew and the band decided that that was the way to perform the song, but my impression was that Mr. Belew was tired of people singing along with, ahead of, and behind the music, and decided that this had to be done in order to outperform the audience. There is the suggestion that we should not be "smart-asses", yet I think the same writer also suggested that Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew were "dickheads" because of the song "Discipline". Why all the capitalization? In the e-mail environment capitalization denotes shouting. If you want to emphasize a word you can italicize or underline (or less appropriately use quotation marks around the word). I think that the vast majority of ET participants can understand what the important parts of sentences are so that there really does not need to be very much emphasis of individual words. Do you trust King Crimson? I do not like every single thing that KC has done, but I trust that they are not trying to pull anything over on me or anyone else. I think that they always are making honest efforts. I am interested in responses from people who have had negative reviews or opinions of the music and then have had some sort of epiphany. My personal example of this is "Neurotica". I did not like the song on the Beat album, and if it was played on any of the tours at that time it did not make any lasting impression on me. However, KC played "Neurotica" on the Thrak Tour and I finally understood what that song was all about. Maybe the band did not know how to play the song before, or maybe I did not know how to listen properly before, maybe both, but I am glad that I trust KC because now I have one more thing to like in my little world. Toby: would you prefer to have disjointed posts such as this one broken up into cohesive (if not coherent) segments with single subjects? Also, if you or anyone else are serious about indexing ET I can suggest a few helpful texts. Thanks for doing what you do. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:19:09 -0400 From: "Hammill, Randall -ND" Subject: Boots and Approaching Silence I am opening myself to attack by posting this, but here goes... David Voci wrote: >6. A point I would like to make here in regards to all this bootlegging >talk going on lately(throw this in with religion and politics, btw)is that >had fans on Epitaph not grabbed themselves a copy or two of those Crimson >shows on God only knows what tape devices they had back then, could we even >be so lucky to get them after all these years on the Epitaph CD? Rob F. >even says as much in the liner notes to Epitaph and indirectly thanks the >fans through the liner notes for providing him with these long lost >cassettes to be able to clean the shows up and include them on Epitaph. >Mmmmm. The point on the bootlegs giving additional archival material is not without merit. However, it does not alter the fact that it is illegal and, more importantly, directly disregarding the wishes of the performers. In addition, every show is now recorded by the band with the intention of releasing every performance. So the argument that it is necessary is no longer valid. I would also have to argue that in the earlier years (especially 1969), the music industry as we know it was in its infancy. People recording had no idea that they would later be able to sell the material and were obviously not concerned with the quality. You could say it was a more innocent approach to music. In the 70's the industry grew to take more freedom from the artists and the audiences grew more inclined to 'take' rather than 'give.' I think that this intention - the state of mind and the negative energy associated with it - is what Robert's real objection is. It is the intention, or 'energy' associated with the act. Otherwise the very act of recording (whether by a fan or Robert) would compromise the performance. On this note, I am a musician and I have done some recording and there is a very different atmosphere to recording, even if you simply have a tape recorder running while you informally perform. It has gotten to a point with one of my friends where he just cannot stand having a tape going - somehow he knows, even if you try and record it without his knowledge. I'm sure it does not happen every time, but he can usually tell. (I can't remember a time when he did not 'know'). In the period between '67-'69 audiences played a much more active role in the performance. I don't know how much of a role they played in KC shows, but look to the history of bands like Pink Floyd, the Mothers of Invention, Grateful Dead, Tomorrow, etc. The audiences frequently included the artist's peers - the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Donovan and so on. I am sure there are plenty of people who are not interested in making a profit by recording. But the whole atmosphere has changed and it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to find somebody with the 'innocence' of the late '60's. Having said that, I am sure there were plenty of people who had negative or vampiric intentions. >David Sylvian's 'Approaching Silence' release with Robert Fripp playing >along with DS on one track, a 38 minute excursion I can only imagine to be >in the ballpark of an ambiental synthetic affair(soundscape if you will). This was originally released as a cassette. It is a spoken word recording by Robert with production by David Sylvian. I have not actually heard it myself, but as far as I know Robert is speaking and not performing music. Randy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 07:39:15 -0600 From: "Mary Rogers" Subject: Is God really dead? >> And if God is dead... Response to Lennon? >Nietsche. >God isn't dead -- he just smells funny (apologies to Zappa). Nietsche is dead -- God --Bill Jacobson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 07:54:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Basile Subject: Medacognitions and fragments during the initial listening ofTCOL TCOL REVIEW Medacognitions and fragments during the initial listening of Then Construction of Light, by King Crimson. Remembering how disappointed I was after listening to BEAT the first few times. Then Beat becoming an all time favorite after seeing most of it live. Hope this happens with TCOL. Scales. Been there seen that. Vulgar lyric. More picking. Ahh?! Wonder what Wetton could have done when Discipline came out. Now trusting the Crimson spirit after seeing Tony and Adrian live. Remembering much of Crimson is an acquired taste. Hope this is the case. Get Jiggy with it? Its over? Too short. Scary thought; this is the most I like a Fripp/Crimson pie after an initial listening. Im not disappointed. This is scary. After several listening I will rank this with a combination of St. Pepper, Dark Side of the Moon, and insert Crimson Catalogue. Moreover, you know I am going to love it increasingly as time goes on! Now let us rush this love affair with a hot date in Pittsburgh! Warmly, Basile by the Three Rivers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:56:50 CEST From: "Macahan The Unifaun" Subject: My friends moral dilemma. Hello dear ETers! The thing is, well... I've got a friend who attended the Copenhagen 27th May show. And this friend happens to know a horrible guy who owns a private recording of this show. This horrible guy has the motto "Tape it! Swap It! - Profit? Drop It!" and tapes a show every now and then. Many bands don't mind, many bands think it's good, many bands think it's bad. Since this horrible guy is a nice guy, he has offered my friend a copy of the recording, plus a few other boots, for a Kaipa boot. The friend really likes this idea. However, the friend isn't only a fan of KC music, but also wants to show respect to the KC members. And since KC belong to the category of bands who think taping shows is bad, there is a conflict between the friends desire to hear the Copenhagen show, and the friends desire to show respect to KC. Let's forget the fact that bootlegtv.com eventually will provide the show on Internet, since the friend is such a knucklehead that he desperately wants both, and would pay for both if he had to. Now, what should the friend do, considering that both desires are very strong?? Possible suggestions for actions: 1) trade for the recording and let that be it. 2) say "no thanks, I would really have loved to, but you know Fripp" 3) trade for the recording and pay royalty to DGM (the friend is prepared to do so if they wish) 4) the "oh, what a fool to not come up with this suggestion..."-suggestion, that YOU come up with. 5) say "yes, sure" recieve it, record it, and then tell the horrible guy that "sorry, I regret this, I'm feeling terrible since this hurt mr. Fripp, that I really don't want to hurt", send it back to the horrible guy, get his Kaipa boot back, and enjoy the KC boot that nobody except my friend knows he has, and everybody thinks he's a saint All right, the last one's a joke. Right? The friend knows that taping isn't allowed, but is trading allowed? If the harm is already done, is it morally correct to accept the "stolen property", or should one deny oneself the pleasure of a boot of respect for Robert Fripp? So, what do you think, Opr..., sorry, ET? And, in case you doubt that humour exists on ET, I'd love to plug the 1st April digest of 1998 (http://www.elephant-talk.com/digests/et481.htm). I read it yesterday night and had tears in my eyes of maniac laughter. So many posts that were sooooo spot-on totally wrong! Thank you Toby, Dan and Mike, you're the greatest!! /Macahan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 08:35:31 -0700 From: "Michael Britt" Subject: Ade's vocals On frying pan I think he just uses a harmonizer. Not just any harmonizer, one of those "smart" harmonizers, in which you can program in a scale, or just tell it what key you're in and it'll do the rest. The LFO remix of Bjork's 'possibly maybe' has the same effect mike http://mp3.com/duophone http://mp3.com/phoenixdown It's Free, Easy, & Fun !!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 08:56:18 -0700 From: "Michael Britt" Subject: forcing KC upon your friends :-) I don't know about the rest of you, but out of everyone I know personally, I'm the ONLY ONE who thinks these guys make up the best band ever! Does anyone has to live with this unfortunate life style? I've shown all the other guys in my band almost everything at one point or another and the majority of my friends just think that Crimson: 1 - Plays music that requires so much concentration that its not even fun to play "I'm good enough to play this stuff, but if I was in a band that did these kinda songs all the time, I would have absolutly NO FUN" 2 - Are just a bunch of show offs 3 - Change times just for the sake of changing times; changing the meter every other bar or so is just not nessesary 4 - TCOL would be a good song if the first 5 minutes werent so boring. 5 - King Crimson's music is no more difficult to play than Tool's and Tool's is much more emotional. Should I just stop talking to all my friends or is it normal for people to say such things?!? Does anyone else get these kind of comments? What other bad things have people you know said about KC? ps: the two sites linked in my signature dont include members of the other band who said the bad stuff. John from duophone, however, actually likes KC ALOT. Duophone is kinda like what ENo+Fripp did, plus some obvious modern electronic influence and of course P1-4 (hey nothing wrong with a quick plug) mike http://mp3.com/duophone http://mp3.com/phoenixdown It's Free, Easy, & Fun !!! ------------------------------ Date: 08 Jun 00 10:18:04 -0700 From: "David Voci" Subject: Mogul Thrash Hello Friends, Will somebody please clear up a mystery regarding the recent two re-releases of Mogul Thrash's one and only self titled album? I bought a copy on Voiceprint that has the six original trax plus a bonus track...the CD is pretty much a good to very good vinyl dub except for two tracks where it's quite evident vinyl was used. Then, a few weeks later, I saw the same CD with the cover reversed to the original? cover, of a trippy drawing with a translucent pyramid and clouds on the Disconforme label. I assume, as the Voiceprint version features a front cover with a picture of the band (the above drawing is on the back cover), that the original cover was the drawing. Anybody know what the original cover was? But more importantly, the main question is that the songs on VP CD are done twice on the Disconforme release(except the short bonus track) with different times. I would gladly offload the VP CD and get the Disconforme version if these differently timed songs on the latter were actually altogether different takes. My fear is that as all the VP tracks times are all on the other CD with the alternate takes all being shorter, that all we really have on the second CD is shorter versions of the same exact songs. Does anybody know this answer? And if maybe the sound on Disconforme's version is better/worse? Whew!!, glad that's over and didn't mean to clog the pages with this but we still speak prog in this room right? And to all those that liked Litherland's influence in Colosseum, you won't be disappointed should you decide to buy this excellent CD. Besides Litherland's guitar/vocal skills, there are many excellent sax/trumpet passages and even a mellophone among the instrument credits. The music flows very nicely here and our pal Wetton keeps it all together beautifully on bass, although not quite as outspoken as when with the Crims. Brian Auger guests on one track as well. I know Gary Davis/Artist Shop carries it. I would also like to extend a big hello/how are ya/good health to the man who started it all....Robert Fripp. Hope you have a great summer 2000. And thanks to Toby for doing these pages...I still cannot believe the volume of ET's that are happening lately...it used to be once a week and now???? Have a good one, dv ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 13:26:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Warren Melnick Subject: Re: Serge Girard's "Mexico City 1996" post >Would there be an ETer kind enough to burn the Mexico City concert from >BootlegTV onto a CD for me? >I'll pay for the blank CD, your time, and packaging etc. >I suppose there's no problem with this, since the Mexico City concert is >free on the BootlegTV site. OK - So here is where we hit the nail on the head as to where "tapers" feel the line gets crossed. "Your Time" should never be compensated. Trades of material are done for either even amounts of material or for Blanks and Postage (B&P). This is a hobby for us, not a source of income. Every trade costs us money, it does not EVER make us money. We buy the equipment, the blank tapes, etc., for the enjoyment of the music. I know the whole taping thing has been beaten to death. But I just want to state for the record that taping is not "wrong" in the way that murder is. It is wrong because some people decided to make a law declaring it wrong. It is only as "wrong" as disobeying a traffic law. Mr. Fripp has stated many things about taping. He has stated that KC is one of the most taped bands ever. Given the high percentage of shows tapes by bands such as Led Zeppelin that have surfaced over the years, he must therefore realize that every show is being taped, it is the logical conclusion drawn from his statement. Therefore to blame a bad show on tapers is rationalization at its worst. You would have to blame your best shows on tapers as well. I enjoy hearing a band live. I enjoy hearing many live performances from the same tour. Why? Because it gives me a better understanding of the band and of the songs. Adrian's performance of "Free As A Bird" to open up one of the NYC shows a few years back was outstanding. Not the performance of it, but the emotion, the audience response, even the point where he realized that he did not know any more of the words is a true treasure. Sincerely, Warren Melnick warren at walrus dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 13:35:37 -0400 From: chris dot karamon at bts dot com Subject: TCOL ET, I finally received my copy of TCOL, thanks Amy, I was a little worried by all the posts as to if I would still like Krimson. I Do, this is the best music they have made since Toapp. The double trio, as great as it was, never left any space in the music, it was very busy. It was great musicians, but they were always on top of each other. TCOL has that Crimson feel again. Sure I miss Bruford, but Pat's drumming fits the music. Trey gets to groove with the bass again, and Fripp and Belew are as slinky as ever. If you don't like TCOL, sell the disc, and there will be more space for me at the US shows, I hope to find out about the US tour soon. Long live the King chris dot karamon at bts dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:48:12 PDT From: "Clive Lathrope" Subject: Similarities Anybody else noticed the similarity between "Oyster Soup" and "Fantasy" by Mariah Carey ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:01:34 -0600 From: "Elaine C. Erb" Subject: Levin Live Greetings fellow ETers: It seems to be Woodstock week in Boulder. Todd Rundgren was just here in town playing some blazing guitar. Friday is the return of Tony Levin to the Boulder Theatre. We will have him live in the station about 3pm MDT (5pm EDT) along with guitarist Jesse Gress, also of Woodstock and formerly Todd's guitar player. Levin will play a few songs and talk with Sam Fuqua, our bass playing news director. You can tune in at http://www.kgnu.org/kgnulive.ram. Yesterday I couldn't resist playing LTiA 3 and 4 back to back. Got a call from a listener which I was afraid was going to be another of those "What the hell are you playing that noise for?" calls we occasionally get. He was very excited about hearing the new Crimson on the air and hadn't realized they were still putting out the edgy music they still do. We are actually reporting TCoL in our top 30! Let's hear it for freeform radio!!! Also thanks to Miguel for the bootlegging post. It's been way too long since I've laughed like that while reading ET. Cheers, EC Elaine C. Erb KGNU Music Director PO Box 885 Boulder, CO 80306, USA 303-449-4885 music at kgnu dot org www.kgnu.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:16:59 -0500 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Old Crimson Bootlegs Chad Ossman wrote: (I think?) > A point I would like to make here in regards to all this bootlegging >talk going on lately(throw this in with religion and politics, btw)is that >had fans on Epitaph not grabbed themselves a copy or two of those Crimson >shows on God only knows what tape devices they had back then, could we even >be so lucky to get them after all these years on the Epitaph CD? Rob F. >even says as much in the liner notes to Epitaph and indirectly thanks the >fans through the liner notes for providing him with these long lost >cassettes to be able to clean the shows up and include them on Epitaph. Although I agree in part that there is a certain irony to Fripp using copies of these old bootlegs for the Collectors Club, Epitaph etc., I think one need to keep in mind a couple of things. For one thing Fripp was about 23 when the original band was bootlegged. The Fripp of the late 60's and early 70's is not the person of today. It may well be that hitting the road as a young man, the concerns of audience taping were not even thought of at the time. If I remember right, these feelings of a vampiric relationship between Fripp and the audience/fans didn't really come to a head until about the time of USA being recorded. By the recording of Red though, Fripp had had enough and needed a break. From that point on Fripp seems to have had a greater concern for eliminating outside negative influences from his performing. So even though releasing bootlegs from the 60's and 70's may seem ironic, its my guess that this didn't bother Fripp at the time. The other thing to keep in mind is the band's financial base probably wasn't what it is today. It can't be cheap to make high quality recordings of each and every show a band plays, especially around the start of the 70's. Plus its not like Fripp could have known that there would even BE a Crimson 30 years after the band formed, let alone there would be such a demand for recordings from this time. In hindsight I'm sure Fripp wishes he had more control over recordings from early in his career, but after the fact, what is he supposed to do? There is a demand and he realizes that the only recordings available are owned by others. Fripp may seem eccentric at times in his beliefs, but to take a stand against bootlegs recorded 20 to 30 years ago would be pretty much like Fripp shooting himself in the foot. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:10:47 -0400 From: "GRAY ROBERT Y. (tel1byg)" Subject: Questions about the "Ladies of the Road" release ?? Just curious..... Has there been any news lately concerning the mass-market release of the "Ladies of the Road" compilation ? I am only aware of this as a single-line mention in the "KC Releases" section of ET. Any ideas on what month this will be released ? Any "rumors" on which songs (and from which dates/venues) will be included on this release ? Hopefully all material will be of previously unreleased recordings (inclusive of those songs that have already made an appearance on the KCCC releases). Maybe I'm jumping the gun on this but we've heard very little about it. B.G. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:17:20 -0500 From: "Pinke, Brian" Subject: ...I'll drink all the time... > they ended with a cover of some 80's song I can't for the life of me > remember the name of it but it had the lyrics "Nothing Could Keep Us Apart", > it was a really cheesy song but you could tell they were playing it just to > take the piss... Maybe they could revisit some of the other "cheesy" songs they're guilty of contributing to in the 80's. Perhaps Adrian can be persuaded to "take the piss" out of True Colors. Or maybe Bobby can whip up an arrangement of "I Zimbra" to play over, as a joke only, of course. Or what's that Mr. Mister song? I'm joking, which some of you will pick up on, but I felt I should mention it, for those of you who don't like "heroes" and might not understand -- and the tal kin ghe ads song is for you, Markus. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 18:12:37 +0200 From: robert turner Subject: GIG REVIEW: 07.06.2000, stadthalle, offenbach (am main), germany the hall has the look and feel of a cross between a gymnasium and a music hall. perhaps that's what it is. we were among the first to arrive. there was a strange feeling (or rather non-feeling) in the air which i attributed to the fact that there weren't yet many people there. my wife and i had standing-room tickets, and we situated at the front because she is not tall. we were on the audience-right side of the stage, about halfway between robert's 'lunar module' and the right speaker stack. i was surprised that when the house lights went down and the group took the stage, the hall still felt empty, despite the fact that it was at least two-thirds full. the welcoming applause was truly lacklustre. adrian shielded his eyes and looked out: "is anybody there?" a slight surge, then they were off and running. from the opening chords, it was apparent that we were too close to the speaker stacks, and unfortunately but not unexpectedly, we donned earplugs. this is something i am reluctant to do because i prefer to have as direct contact as possible to what's happening, but it was also necessary. where we stood, at front, the music was clearer with plugs than without. throughout the concert, the playing seemed really on, technically: everyone together and relaxed. there were difficulties with adrian's guitars in the first half of the concert, but having not heard the new crim, i wasn't sure what effect this had on the material. the music was interesting from the beginning. a lot of interplay, a happy balance of the delicate, interlocking structures of the eighties crim vocabulary with the dinosaur-footed vocabulary of the nineties crim. i won't try to reconstruct a set list, because my concentration was focused on the music as it was happening and not on memorizing the sequence. i'm also only just acquainted with nineties crim, and i had not heard any 'construcktion of light' material before the concert. i am always impressed by adrian as a stage entity / front man. i've seen the bears perform in ottawa in the eighties, and crimson in montreal in 1995, and i've also seen videos of crimson live and laurie anderson's _home of the brave_ concert, and adrian is consistent: he has amazing technical capacity as a musician, and when on stage, he obviously pours the sum of his positive energy out towards the audience and the other members of the group. i believe the same to be true of the other crims, but adrian is the ambassador, engaging everyone visually, inquiring and responding, and smiling the whole time. despite the quality of the playing, there was something anaesthetised or absent in the mood of the evening. i had a visceral image of energy radiating out into a cold vacuum. during the first two-thirds of the concert this feeling was particularly blatant. after the third or fourth song, we moved back to the region of the soundboard, because pat mastelotto, who was doing some truly weird and amazing things to his kit and the environment in general, was obscured from our sight by the lunar module. we removed our earplugs in our new location, and the sound, while still a touch loud, was quite clear. we left our plugs out for the duration. my ears feel pressured today and i know it was too loud. this is not a complaint directed towards crimson. i acknowledge that they have to try to deliver the sound as uniformly as possible throughout a wide variety of spaces under a wide variety of conditions. i'm also probably more sensitive to sound volume than most people i know. it would be truly wonderful to be able to design, build and operate a venue, however, in which sound could be reliably delivered to the audience without endangering their hearing. (in the near future, i intend to buy musician's earplugs, which reduce the sound volume while maintaining a flat frequency response. this means no muffled high-end. i've seen these advertised on the web for US $135. http://www.hearnet.com is a good starting point for information.) towards the end of the concert, after what was obviously _frakctured_, things improved dramatically, but not wholly, with a piece that opened with mastelotto using a hand shaker and a bass drum and which escalated into full band madness. perhaps a lot of the non-present people left or became suddenly a bit more interested when they realized that the show was mostly over. my feeling was that the band was struggling to make the audience aware of the fact that there was a concert going on. it was like watching someone trying to inflate a tyre with a large puncture in it. they sweat away, pumping, and the tyre becomes bigger but doesn't hold. for _i had a dream_ and what led into it, the tyre was slightly inflated, as if our pumper had managed to find the puncture and had placed a fingertip over it while still pumping away madly with the other hand. for the first encore, adrian's solo acoustic version of _three of a perfect pair_, which was stunningly delivered, a semblance of intimacy visited the forum. i was amazed that he did this with the atmosphere being what it was. perhaps it was a drastic measure to wake people up. it was very successful. the front rows attempted to sing the guitar solo and dissolved into laughter. adrian came back with "hey! that's _my_ solo!" during the next piece, performed by fripp, gunn and mastelotto, something happened that was truly sorrowful and joyful at the same time. i was very deeply moved. i wonder if this was _heaven and earth_. it would seem a good title. the show ended with _heroes_, and surprisingly, a tapering of the recently gained energy. adrian magnanimously thanked the audience for having 'been wonderful to play to.' it must be very discouraging to be the players at an event like last night's concert. my wife's first take was that the material was not very strong, and that the technical difficulties with adrian's guitars contributed noticeably to the de-focusing of energy. she was distracted by these difficulties as, i'm sure, were the band and other members of the audience. she also observed that while we were at the front, someone snapped a flash photo which was noticed by fripp. she really enjoyed the interplay of the band and the musicianship; in particular the single note trades between belew and fripp which seem to be a big part of the new vocabulary. my take on the evening was this: i have a feeling that the material is _very_ difficult to execute and _somewhat_ demanding on the part of the listener, and therefore perhaps _quite_ susceptible to environmental challenges. the physical problem with adrian's guitars seemed like a small thing in comparison to the overall lack of energy of the evening. i didn't see the flash photo. the band played their asses off, and the music fell into a bottomless pit. to sum up, the concert was an exceedingly professional performance and a valiant effort on the part of the band, and a cold, disinterested and vacuous performance on the part of the audience. i wonder if this was due to bootlegging. does it actually matter? i guess it's easier to police bootlegging than to police disinterest, but only just. thanks to the band for putting so much effort into the show and giving all they had, and thanks to those audience members who were supportive and present. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #691 ********************************