Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #690 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 690 Thursday, 8 June 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: A new dead thread -- "Where to file?" re:lack of muir.. KC 4 Ever? McCulloch and Blues More bootlegging & less concert enjoyment One More Time... KCONTROVERSY Re: Neil How to File CD's The Flurry to Come Re: P or K? (& L or R) TCOL-The 3rd Day. Re: Elephant Talk #689 (Sleeping For Years) Re: Elephant Talk #689 ( Mc Culloch) Norbert Fragg: Endless Bleat P or K, boots Mr. William Bruford is NOT God! Get Your Ears On David Cross, People! Approaching silense Heroes and shades of Low Collector's clubs Too much thinking about the tour archiving and cake GIG REVIEW: Bonn Museumsplatz GIG REVIEW: Nuremberg again -or- "play it for me chicken fingers!" ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:49:35 -0300 From: Toby Howard Subject: NEWS: A new dead thread -- "Where to file?" The thread on how to file your CDs ("To K or to P, that is the question") is now dead. No more posts on that topic please (or anything remotely like it). Had to stop that before the Collective ET Brain melted. Cheers Toby ET Moderator ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:49:35 -0300 From: "UNIGLORY" Subject: re:lack of muir.. Hi! Sorry for bother you.., I'm not a too fanatic for Crimson, just a sufficient fan ;-) ..Yeah, I like to joke that the presence of Muir is what made "Lark's Tongues In Aspic"so wonderful! Certainly "Red" & "Starless & Bible.." would be better with Muir! You know "LTiA" is my fave (along with "Discipline"..)! I do a similar joke to Yes'Relayer' and Patrick Moraz................ :-P That's it! Paul Gabrielleschi http://gabrielleschi.homepage.com/ (underconstruction) http://uniglory.homepage.com/ p.s.: I didn't hear TCOL but there's a lot of postings here about some 'weak points with the production...', maybe just a question of style, but wouldn't be interesting some remixes from any 'KC member' ? It would be the projeKct rmx...... :-P Wouldn't be fun hear some different mix of "Islands", "Lizard"or "LTiA3"? Maybe we'll never know!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:43:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Darryl Subject: KC 4 Ever? Hello ETer's, Has anyone noticed that the current reincarnation of Crimson has been the longest yet! 1969-74 was 6 years, 1981-84 was 4 years and now 1994-2000 is 7 years. Assuming of course that the group will still be in action in 2001, it will make it 8 years(double the Discipline era). Granted there hasn't been as much output as earlier incarnations, but there's still been the ProjeKcts and all the seemingly endless live releases. In fact, I think as of now there is more live KC material than there is studio work! I've read one of Fripp's diaries recently that stated that the current line-up has been his most enjoyable to play with. That's right, THE most enjoyable, even more than Wetton-Bruford-Cross. It seems KC will still be going for awhile since Fripp is obviously happy being in the group right now, compared to how he felt in 1974 or 1984. Also the increase in women attending concerts and/or purchasing the new album must be a bonus. Apparantly TCOL has been doing good on Amazon.com and other places and I wouldn't be surprised if TCOL actually reached Gold status. I'm not sure what chart status it has yet, but I would like to know how it's doing on Billboard though. So anyway, I'm sure we are guaranteed another studio album yet before Robert decides to pull the plug again. Darryl ------------------------------ Date: 07 Jun 00 10:22:54 -0700 From: "David Voci" Subject: McCulloch and Blues Hello Friends, Was going over a certain rock encyclopedia(Terry Hounsome/Compiler and Writer) last night as a previous contributor mentioned the talents of Andy McCulloch on traps on the quintessential Crimson album Lizard and found him to play in these groups/albums: 1)Fields-Self Titled...1971 on CBS UK and US 2)Manfred Mann-Chapter Three/Volume Two from 1970 3)Duncan Mackay-Score 1977 and Visa 1980...the interesting thing about this and for me bears further investigation is that Wetton is in the lineup as well as Mel Collins. Any dirt on this from you fine people would be cool. And looking up Crazy World Of Arthur Brown(This was the first album by Arthur Brown under this name I believe with subsequent recordings getting a different moniker like Kingdom Come etc...)the drummer there is Draken Theaker. Andy McCulloch is not mentioned at all. Carl Palmer might be have played on the CWOAB album but main drummer was Draken. Carl Palmer played on Vincent Crane's spinoff group Atomic Rooster's first album. --------------------------------- Enjoyed once again the intense 'Great Deceiver' box last night and on songs like Easy Money and Cat Food, listen to the styling Fripp utilises on guitar and tell me if those aren't scarily similar, if not exactly like, blues sytle solos. I hear this type of soloing in many places on this set and on Epitaph. Enjoy Everything, dv ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jun 00 12:52:01 MDT From: claus dot poulsen at usa dot net Subject: More bootlegging & less concert enjoyment Hello, chit-chatters!!!! In the last digest, there were several good postings. And the subject of bootlegging is on my mind at the time. "Cameron Devlin" wrote: "The audience is there to enjoy the music and if someone is bootlegging, their minds are on other things (are the levels right, is the microphone on etc.). Therefore, if someone is bootlegging, their attention/attitude is not entirely with the music and the band is affected." I am affected too. Recently I saw KC twice in Copenhagen - great shows, babble babble babble... There was only one problem: saturday night there was a guy standing to the left of me. He was standing like a statue throughout the concert showing no signs of life at all. There in the middle of an unbelieveable magic moment! How could he NOT join the fun? Why didn't he applause wildly like the rest of us? I had a hard time not letting myself being affected by him - I felt uneasy some times. After the show, I asked him if he liked it. Yes, he did! he was recording, therefore his behaviour (or lack of ). Bootleg recording at concerts spoil the event - BOTH audience and artist, and I cand find no resonable excuse to do it. Whatever good reasons - "This is still piracy." I am happy to say that the discussion has made my mind clearer on this point - and Fripp is making a good job of meeting our demands (club, BTV, DGM, later ConcertArchives etc). Thus I gave away my bootleg LPs and CDs. I don't really need them - as I have a much better and more fair alternative. But this change gets me trouble - I won't let anyone make CDROM copies of my Club CD's anymore (not that I did it A LOT, but...). Then my friends get a little angry. I, of course, argue and try to make my point. But it takes quite a while to change someone's mind on the subject when they are stubborn, 30+ years and have had bootleg collecting as a hobby for a long time. And then I was offered the actual recording the statue man was making (free). What to do??? Best wishes, Kclaus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:04:08 +0300 From: Hans Annellsson Subject: One More Time... Hi friends, A little bit of self promoting, if you don't mind. My new instrumental CD "One More Time For The World" includes a version of "Red". The CD is available from www.petter-lottas.x.se, G&S Music in England and Finyl Vinyl in Rotterdam (The Netherlands). Best, Hans Annellsson -- (http://www.annellssongs.com) (http://www.swebmusic.com) (http://www.planetzappa.com) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:40:19 -0400 From: johnpellerito Subject: KCONTROVERSY We all know now the "official" KC policy regarding taping. But is it not ironic that RF continues to search out the best tapes (boots) from the past to improve the Collectors Club series? Is there not subtle encouragement, or at the least, acceptance of the practice of taping for the purpose of archiving vintage KC? I am sure there are amateur tapers who would be thrilled to have their recording accepted by RF for release. Taping current KC shows is probably unnecessary as we will see new releases from the CC, BootlegTV, etc. These should be sparkling digital recordings that should satisfy most of us. But what if they changed the set list one night, or had a guest performer or... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:27:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: Neil Macahan relates: >>this reminds me of when a couple of workmates of mine went to see Neil >> >Young a >>few years ago. once they noticed a hidden mike on the guy in front of >> >them, >>they started yelling obsenities for the rest of the show. > >That's how it should be solved, mr. Fripp. Start shouting obsenities! ;) Particularly ironic that this anecdote should involve Neil Young, who's certainly had his own share of problems with inattentive audients. I've heard stories from his recent solo-acoustic tour that he would offer (from the stage) to give loud talkers their money back if they'd leave the show. Big laffs all around, but I've been at more than one show where I've wished I (or the performer) had that option. --Art ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 20:15:25 -0400 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: How to File CD's Regarding the simmering controversy framed thusly: >> Should I put my ProjeKt CD's at P or K???? Man, some of you folks really do pick a nit. I put 'em under K-- but then, I put Fripp and Belew and League of Gentlemen there as well. Coming next ET: I reveal how I file records by Paul McCartney, Dave Edmunds, and Ronnie Wood. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 20:20:42 -0400 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: The Flurry to Come In ET #689, Kevin Holmes observes: "Granted, on certain nights that are technical difficulties or somebody blurting out a song request or something silly, but the fact is these songs will be released in live form at some point in the near future." Actually, if recvent history is any indication, they will be released ad nauseum... (Not that I'm complaining...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 20:22:16 -0400 From: Adam Aronson Subject: Re: P or K? (& L or R) Chad Ossman, 6/7/00 6:20 PM: >> on 06 Jun 2000 Stephane Berland wrote: >> >>> Should I put my ProjeKt CD's at P or K???? >> >> Put them at P ! And put your King Crimson albums at K, K', K'', K''', etc. > > I'm glad to see I'm not the only compulsive KC trainspotter who puzzled over > this "issue"! > > I just want to make the quick point that DGM released the Projekcts boxed > set under the name "King Crimson: The Projekcts", so it would seem Fripp > would like the set to be formally known as a Crimson release, and probably > filed under "K" at music shops as well. Add to this confusion the KCCC Release "The Roar of P4"... Do you file that under "K" with it's collector's club bretern or under "P" with it's fellow ProjeKcts (as I do)? Similarly, I have filed my League of Gentlemen's "THRANG THRAN GOZINBULX" under "L"... However, "God Save The King" is filed under "F" for "Robert Fripp - The League of Gentlemen". Snore. (Can you tell I make my living as a Database Analyst?) Adam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:13:52 EDT From: NotoriousAWOL at aol dot com Subject: TCOL-The 3rd Day. If you will forgive a little presumption, I think a lot of ETers have their complaint about the stunning TCOL being "derivative" ass-backwards. Looking back, the members of KC themselves have stated that the double-trio did not work out quite in Fripp's intended design. The idea of two trios involved in delicate interplay collapsed quickly into a thundering herd of awesome chops. For this reason,and also because the music itself, though aggressive in some aspects was almost all tonal,modal, and therefore easy on the ears. As happy as I was with active recording and touring of these guys, I couldn't help but see a little bit of the pandering "geezer tours" that attract affluent Boomers who want to try and "relive" something that never actually happened. So then the "fractals" go on the road and just start jamming like crazy. For a couple of years all we heard was the jamming. But they were working on stuff. Or maybe stuff was working on them. And lo and behold, This drummer who is really pushing the envelope of modern percussion, Another guy who is becoming a master of a rare and versitile instrument and without a doubt one of the most unique and amazing guitarists ever to grace the planet come out with an stunningly powerful, dissonant record. You know, kind of what KC sounded like compared to anything back in the day. It was nice with "Vroom" and "Thrak" that King Crimson appeared in order to play that music. But TCOL is the juice. All you naysayers, give it time. It will burn a hole in you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:39:28 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #689 (Sleeping For Years) > I would really like to see Crimson maybe in future extravaganzas >musical, think about incorporating some horns and flutes or anything >that you blow air through, into their song structure. OH YEAH!!! Most definitely! All kinds (....instead of the usual saxes & flutes), let`s go for oboes, bassoons, recorders, clarinets). I`m dead serious. THAT is how to expand their sound. Not just the constant technology. (A good deal of which will prolly sound very dated in a short time). I`m personally dissapointed w/ the "new" direction, & will (for the 1st time in the band`s discography), pass on the new release. >I am still a hardcore >advocate of the mentality that the true and original King Crimson sound >pretty much dried up after Lizard, at least in the studio. Whilst I *adore* LIZARD, & think it`s simply one of the best things ever recorded , (love the winds on there!!), I have to strongly disagree here. The Larks` Tongues crew did many astounding releases, fully in line w/ the previous Krimson asthetic. I have never had anything but whole hearted enthusiasm for those. Their live shows (as experienced on The Great Deceiver) were superlative in every way. > A point I would like to make here in regards to all this bootlegging >talk going on lately(throw this in with religion and politics, btw)is that >had fans on Epitaph not grabbed themselves a copy or two of those Crimson >shows on God only knows what tape devices they had back then, could we even >be so lucky to get them after all these years on the Epitaph CD? Rob F. >even says as much in the liner notes to Epitaph and indirectly thanks the >fans through the liner notes for providing him with these long lost >cassettes to be able to clean the shows up and include them on Epitaph. >Mmmmm. Hmmmm, indeed. The irony is striking. > While RF is credited for guitar playing and producing on the Centipede >project, we all know he never played guitar on the album and just produced >the session. Did he ever play with Centipede on their live shows or other >studio gigs that might have been recorded? He also produced Matching Mole`s *glorious* Little Red Record. Did Fripp ever play with them??? Now there`s a thought. Hmmm. (I doubt it . Word is that Fripp was very down on Phil Miller`s playing during those sessions).... ~Craig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:50:34 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #689 ( Mc Culloch) He played with a band called "Fields" after K.C. A sort of "secondrate" E.L.P with just drums, bas,keys and vocals, it's pretty good. I have seen it on CD but only on "hard-to-get-import". Since we are talking about him i must say that i think he's pretty awful. "Cirkus" sounds so much better with Ian Wallence. Ian made songs like "Ladies of the road" sound like they were recorded yesterday while Mc Culloch's playing is so dated. But don't get me wrong: "Lizard" rules, i just wish the drums were a little bit less loose. Full credtis to Wallence my fav drummer in K.C. Yes, well, er,...your favorite KC drummer is Ian Wallace, not Ian Wallence. 8^) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 23:33:35 EDT From: Bknt at aol dot com Subject: Norbert Fragg: Endless Bleat Norbert Fragg: Endless Bleat Hotel Highly Regrettable Baden-Baden Worsen-Worsen Republic of Fredonia The emptiness that filled last night's concert has not yet come and gone, due possibly to the venue: a small hall that was no hall at all, but, in fact, a basement seating approximately 350 that had been previously used as a storage area by a Croatian sausagier whose scheme for irradiating ethnically cleansed naughtwurst ended mysteriously when he was found, in part, if not in parts, within one of his products. My complaints to the promoter about a darkly dripping liquid descending unwanted through the ceiling upon the fretful, but not fretless, head of Baldy Bayou, were met with a curiously feral Balkan growl. My feeble efforts at translating his remarks yielded the daunting intelligence that before the venue was a radioactive sausage works, it was used by the promoter as an "information extraction laboratory." He offered to show me punctures and scuppers in the stained concrete where human beings were, to use the American idiom, "placed in a holding pattern." The promoter further informed us that certain uncertain bleats, squeals, squerns and side burns arising within the mond-rondo-Redondo-Beach section of Ruptured reminded him of a happier, bygone era when he, too, practiced an art that caused an audience to make similar sounds. He was about to describe how new technological innovations available in the latest edition of Microsoft Windows for Pain have breathed new death into the field of human excruciation when Out Trey informed him that we weary musickers would honor his request to autograph his The Crustacean of Turkish Delight CD, after which we had to hurry off to telephone faraway wives and tender progeny. Thus music puts us in yet another alternative performance space where close contact may be maintained with an audience of passively active listeners as opposed to the Rockballast, where we would have had to purchase and detonate assorted pyrotechnics, wear leather outfits with studded codpieces, artfully chomp upon capsules of fake blood that would drip down our gaping jaws, defend ourselves from persons attacking us with a banana and perform ancient repertoire. And yet, the basement sends forth its habitues, in the form of a nefariously flatulent audient calling himself Lee Petomaine who later banged upon the lead-lined hatch covering the unnervingly luminous crypt that had served as the band's dressing room. Out Trey, whose outsized charm and courtly ettiquette have inspired the fleet retreat of many a bearded, earnest young man with, or without a copy of Stephen Mawking's A Brief Fistula of Mine, failed to deturd this maliciously irritating dweeb. Thus, the hapless few who reconstitute the current edition of Prince Cramp's Son were forced to listen actively to a putz. LP: I am wish to say I follow you everywhere to join member you group. Make a joyful stink. You-reek-ah! NF: You do not, sir. You do not. LP: Oh, but I do. I do. You take me for a fancy-shmancy V-drum, I make a pa-rumpa-pum-pum, but all organic, you dig? Every morning before show, I buy ticket, I eat big pile of good Serbian beans. I have no expectationabut, hoooey, such anticipation! I go to all Cramp's Son concerts. I active listen. Then, in rare quiet part, I make big bang BOOM stink-stink in intimate, lotsa-girls audience. I make contribution. I help bring music into world. You pay me money or you see me every night.. LP dribbled on, noting that he was my biggest fan and was merely following instructions contained in my diary postings, thus, 1. The ideation typically inferred as Prince Cramp's Son is greater than Norbert Fragg. Prince Cramp's Son is also greater than its variously recombinant musicants, greater than its heroically struggling undercapitalized and venally directed record company, much greater than the larger community of cretinous critics and amusical radioheads who would destroy all music if not for the dedicated strivings of certain uncertain individuals who, when in doubt, sneak perfection. 2. Prince Cramp's Son includes the active (that is, passive) participation among audients who refrain from recording, flash photography and requests for 22nd Century Anhedonic Amusual Bi-Polar Disordered Man (Zoloft Blues has been offered as a replacement but has so far achieved only molt, not cult, status). 3. Because the artist pays, the audience pays, everybody's either paying or getting paid but nobody's making a living or getting laid, those who Fart Loudly (cf. collectoin of zestier writings by the American colonial iconoclast Benjamin Franklin) are making offerings that, if not strictly musical, have the potential of being just as irritating, nasally retentive and culturally offensive as the music itself. 4. Thus it follows that LP, a member of the freely, if not professionally flatulent may demand compensation in the form of lowly lucre, for his excrementally expressive, proportionately importunate, notationally noxious, impertinently percussive eruptions. I then refuted this warped and woofed LP that the making of this demand from the weary, bleary but nonetheless Musical Guitarist Striving for Perfection, even when he gets mostly dejection, rejection and, at my age, only an occasional erec(snip!)athis holding of music hostage is none other than the accursed, much discussed and already-a-dead-thread-in-ET known as lootbegging. And because one must be crazy to be a musician, lootbegging is a nonsensical act. After my stentorian rebuttal, LP left us distressfully agassed. I then embarked on a panicky act of e-frenzy to gain advice from Trey Anesthesio of the band Phlush and my good friend and fellow cosmic string guitarist Michael Canned Eelly, as to the proper procedure to indulge when the basement trapdoor flies open and reminds us of what must be in the garden before a thousand flowers bloom. Bill Kent (with thanks to Todd for irreverent inspiration) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 00:16:34 -0400 From: Andrew Acunzo Subject: P or K, boots Chad Ossman wrote: >I just want to make the quick point that DGM released the Projekcts boxed >set under the name "King Crimson: The Projekcts", so it would seem Fripp >would like the set to be formally known as a Crimson release, and >probably filed under "K" at music shops as well. However, SPACE GROOVE was just released under the name ProjeKct Two I believe, although there was a sticker on the packaging identifying it as a King Crimson Projekct. Hmm... "Kevin Holmes" wrote: >Some bands are in favor of taping and trading, the King Crimson is not. Others have mentioned this as well. However, I've only ever seen Robert Fripp give opinions on this subject. Have the other three guys ever stated their views? (Obviously if Fripp the de facto leader of the band is against it, I think we should obey his wishes. I was just wondering if the others have stated their views regarding this (but would they dare state an opposing viewpoint from RF on this thorny topic which is obviously one of his hot buttons?)) On a related note, has anyone else heard about Pearl Jam's plan? They're releasing double CD sets of every show on their current European tour though their website. If Crimson did something like this the whole taping issue would disappear. I guess we need to wait and see as Bootleg TV unfolds. Andy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 21:57:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Alfred Bello Subject: Mr. William Bruford is NOT God! Oh Lord, but he is so close, at least from a drummer's point of view (Clapton, according to some, a couple of decades ago, from a guitarist's point of view, was God) something with which I disagree, but that is not the issue (the real one in my opinion being still, after all these years, Mr. James Marshall Hendrix), a title that neither one of the current KC guitarists have never as far as I know ever been suggested to be. By the way, I have at this point to admit that I really enjoy Adrian Belew's guitar playing and that I sincerely hope that Island finally decides to issue his 2 first solo albums, The Lone Rhinoceros and Twang Bar King, which I sincerely miss very much. Returning to Mr. Bruford, at least, he is the only member and I truly hope not, ex-member, of King Crimson, who only went along with (quote another recent ETer) " The Cheerfully Insane's " macabre easy wealth obtaining plan of daring to poorly improvise noise and actually sell it for only two sessions (THRaKaTTaK and Projekct One) before calling it quits and go different ways, initially probably because it was unlistenable, and secondly, because, he does have the reputation of being if not the best, one of the best living contemporary drummers in the world and does not wish to be associated with the subsequent musical monstruosities generated by that great (or at the very least, ex-great band) that KC has been since the late sixties, with I must admit it's up's and down's. We cannot, at this point, eliminate from the face of the earth TCOL, it is here to stay, but we must (quote another ETer) consider it as the natural evolution of what we had all been exposed to with the ProjeKcts experiment. I am surprised to admit that the only ProjeKcts experiment that really enjoyed was Projekcts Two Studio CD, which apparently nobody likes. I now find that I enjoy Projekct X more than anything on the 4 CD boxed set (exception being Seizure). I have absolutely nothing against Pat, if he is there there must be a very valid reason, but I do not want to think that the reason I like Projekct X is because of Adrian's occasional drumming (is he is a guitarist playing drums better than a professional drummer?). What is wrong here? I love KC more or at least the same as some of you out there. I sincerely hope to see Bill and Tony back in the group. Bt the way, I have seen a million complaints about the Deja Vu DVD, It might sound weird, but I have never had a problem with it, every feature works fine in my system. My SONY DVP-S550D has always worked fine with this DVD. Don't buy a JVC DVD. My experience in this sense is negative. I have not meant to offend anybody. Long Live The King! --------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:09:12 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Get Your Ears On David Cross, People! Good morning and HI THERE to all you fellow Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts who found a home in the internet newsletter! (And that is meant literally: Thoughts this world doesn't need can be placed on ET. No joke. Be serious. In our society there is no interest for thoughts on who played what on what record and where can I get that record and ... I don't think taping is good. But anyway, maybe these thoughts are welcome here.... Toby?) OK, I got my David Cross records yesterday and - WOW! amazing. In my constant trying to break the discussion about the new tour and the new album I once again make the effort to invest our reading and listening time in something else. Well, this is INDEED different. There is really some great and extraordinary music to be found on TESTING TO DESTRUCTION THE BIG PICTURE CIVILIZATIONS Must I recommend them or can I assume that you all will manage to check them out by yourselves? CONCLUSIO: Now, THAT MAN is a loss for King Crimson. His playing is unique and the instruments he plays in the context of superb rock music are also unique. Cheers Markus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:18:08 +0200 From: "Scheepers, Hans" Subject: Approaching silense From ET 689 > From: "David Voci" > Subject: Sleeping For Years ... > 9. Being a fan of ranging music styles, I saw a posting in certain > electronic music catalogues re David Sylvian's 'Approaching Silence' > release with Robert Fripp playing along with DS on one track, a 38 minute > excursion I can only imagine to be in the ballpark of an ambiental > synthetic affair(soundscape if you will). Any feedback or views on this > would be cool. Apparently the track, also called 'Approching Silence', was > first done in 94 and this seems to be another take of that. Redemption/Approaching silence is an installation in Japan, 1994, combining music and artwork. More details at: http://www.weatherbox.com/ and see under "installations", and http://www.trophies.org/reg_cd.htm for details. http://www.trophies.org/live_tv.htm The last link contains a 4'10" video of Fripp/Sylvian, including a short interview. Regards, Hans. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:38:53 +0300 From: Haapa Ilkka Subject: Heroes and shades of Low Hi all, I am a bit surprised since there hasn't been any postings/comments about King Crimson's cover of Bowie's "Heroes" which they have been playing in their shows. Surprised because -correct me please if i'm wrong - isn't this the first time since Mars or Get Thy Bearings that KC is playing music (in public) composed by someone else than KC member? Isn't that worth of some debate, do you think? What could it mean? And also, when listening to TCOL, some parts of it somehow strangely remind me of Bowie's Low - the sound, the famous/infamous drums, the mixing...something that I haven't sorted out yet. Could it even be the guitars? Anyway, to my ears there is definitely something "Low-like" - and I mean A-side ( I have a vinyl copy of Low) in TCOL. Greeting from Finland -the land that King Crimson almost toured. Ilkka Haapa Helsinki, Finland ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:02:42 +0200 From: John Sowerby Subject: Collector's clubs >> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 17:54:56 EDT >> From: "top jimmy" >> Subject: Chit-Chat, it's only talk... >> >> Does any ET reader know any other band that has a Collector's Club or >> something similiar? I thought this was an amazing idea and have been in it > >Dream Theater engages in "something similar". For the past three or four >years, the DT Int'l Fan Club has released a "Christmas CD", compiled by the >band's drummer, of various rareties such as live tracks, non-album tracks, >cover tunes recorded for fun, and the like. DT is one of my favorites >especially because of their selflessness toward their hardcore fans. > >-Chris > Add onto that Marillion, who, like Dream Theater, release a Christmas CD for the various Web fan clubs, containing unreleased stuff, remixed stuff, and the occasional murder of a Christmas carol. John. Dr John Sowerby, (home) Bayerisches Geoinstitut, Parkstrasse 3, Universitaet Bayreuth, D - 95444 BAYREUTH, D - 95440 BAYREUTH, Germany. Germany. phone: (0)921 553717 phone: (0)921 5160437 e - mail: John dot Sowerby at uni-bayreuth dot de or: jrs at stones dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:10:00 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Too much thinking about the tour Oops... I posted again! So, awaiting the Krimson King arriving about 5 minutes from my home in Linz, I can't sleep all night wondering what it will be like. I mentioned in a recent email to izyrp that I really don't like critics of concerts and records (therefore I read no music papers), but still they're interesting... as far as they are not produced by journalists but by FANS. And the fans' expressions about the concerts are.... quite interesting. It seems there is a lot of trouble about the new records but there only is one statement about the tour: IT IS A GREAT TOUR. Ok, fine, but people, how is it? I'm sitting here, reading RF's diary and watch how close they are coming on the European map. They hit Nurnberg, they hit Munchen, so close.... But how are the shows, guys? To explain: 1) How are the shows introduced? Do they play Soundscape playbacks, sort of "Entry of the Crims" or anything? 2) Two sets or all in one? 3) And: How is Heroes? Ok- this wasn't quite serious. Don't tell me anything. I don't want to know. But these thoughts catch me INDEED: 1) THRAK concerts (listen to B'BOOM) took about 2 hours. TCOL concerts seem to end after about 100 minutes. 2) How come KC play Heroes as an encore? I only have one explanation: As a response to those who asked for the hit Schizoid Man (last time encore in 1973/4) they decided to play INDEED a hit encore both guitarists of the band have played on (don't forget the combination: Fripp on studio Heroes, Belew one year after at Bowie's tour). I find this an amazing fact. 3) The encore list suprises me: First TOAPP acoustic by AB, and then P3 without him. Compare: Yes' Ladder tour (hit this tiny little state three months ago) saw the following encores: Steve Howe acoustic, and then the band without him (Cinema/Owner Of a Lonely Heart). I also find these similarities quite interesting. But, anyway, you see - I've got nothing to do and I'm sure I annoy you, so................. I'll better get on with my work. Mahlzeit Markus PS I find the current smoking debate quite funny. We all know - I'm sure - that us "responsible" smokers do not smoke where it is not allowed. What else should we do? Cut our wrists because we are smoking? People....... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 03:26:59 -0700 (PDT) From: jan geerts Subject: archiving and cake Projects under 'P' or 'K' or... Why ask anyone? Just see for yourselves, if you can find them when you want to play them, that's sureley sufficient. : that seems like an adaptation of 'you can't have your cake and eat it too', one of the main points of Objectivism, conceived by Ayn Rand (www.aynrand.com); I don't know what Mr. Belew means with his lyric though, which seems to be as free as the Projekct X cd, which is starting to grow on me. ta ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 07:13:00 PDT From: "Andrew Thiermann" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Bonn Museumsplatz To say I was excited to see KC is an understatement. I have only been listening to KC for a little over a year but in that time they have become my favorite group (All forms of KC over the years). In my collection of 350+ CD's the 10 (quite a small number given all the releases) receives over 40% of my listening time. So for this amazing experience I drove 4 hrs. (from Belgium) to see them...I was not dissapointed! The venue was an open air covered arena, around 1000 people were in attendance, filling the area almost completely. Before the concert a few people were yelling 'Bill Bruford + Tony Levin' But this all stoped when KC came on. The set was as follows: Into the Frying Pan TCOL Sex, Eat,... FraKctured One Dinosaur The World's My Oyster... 15 min Jam Cage (Accoustic) ProzaKc Blues LTiA IV Coda: I have a Dream ToaPP (Adrien Belew playing acoustic alone) Deception of the Thrush (P4 Version) (RF, TG & PM only) VROOM VROOM they ended with a cover of some 80's song I can't for the life of me remember the name of it but it had the lyrics "Nothing Could Keep Us Apart", it was a really cheesy song but you could tell they were playing it just to take the piss...Throughout the entire concert you could see they were all enjoying life. AB was practically jumping out of his skin with enjoyment, going crazy as always. Trey Gunn played perfectly, he is one member that I think is greatly underestimated, his playing is essential and he does it with so much feeling and emotion, just great! THen the man who is getting so much critisism at the moment Pat Mastelotto, all I can say is he is BRILLIANT! Not only does he match former KC drummers but goes beyond them in so many ways...He visually works with the audience communicating as so few drummers do..and yet adds such an integral part to the KC sound. Then the infamous Robert Fripp. What can I say, he is by far the most musically amazing musician I have ever seen, not only does he treat the guitar as a delicate instrument (something that is almost never seen in todays music) but he knows how to add just the perfect amount of atmosphere or turmoil (through effects, scales etc...) at every moment. After hearing all of the "Horror Stories" about his actions to the crowd I can do nothing but question the previous authors of these accusations...all he seemed to be was a man who loved his art but did not want the groaping and leeching that fans so often do to their 'musical heros'. Not only was he humble as always but you could see that he was enjoying himself, a smile (or clever smirk) was almost always present throughout the 2 hr set. All in all the playing was perfect, the communication, the set everything was perfect...they must have enjoyed it, they did 3 encores!! Anyways, I have waffled on enough. Just finish by saying, the concert was so good, I might have to take off work and go see them in Paris just to have the experience of pure bliss one more time! Hope anyone who has the chance goes to see them, it's worth the ticket price and the hassle of 4 hrs of driving each way! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:45:45 -0400 (EDT) From: flohansson at hockeymail dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: Nuremberg again -or- "play it for me chicken fingers!" Hello there, fellow ETers! I know the KC show at Nuremberg has already been reviewed (e.g. by Stickman, who described the atmosphere very well!), but as it was my first live experience of my favourite band, I would like to add a few impressions, too. I do not want to repeat too much of Stickman's review, but one thing that really knocked me off my feet was the venue itself! The "Serenadenhof" is just beautiful! The great weather also contributed to the overall impression. When I entered that courtyard and heard those Soundscapes coming from some tape backstage, I was immediately full of joy and expectation for the unexpected. (BTW, can anybody tell me which Soundscapes-album they come from? I only heard them once before on the video tape "Live in Japan '95") Another great thing, which almost turned the gig into a private barbecue, was the fact that you could buy some drinks and original "Nuernberger Bratwuerste" to power up for the upcoming show! And all those stands were just a few feet from the stage! I also enjoyed the fact that there was a no-smoking-area right in front of the stage. Some "indisciplined" people nevertheless tried to light their cigarettes, but some security guys immediately "took care of them". (To the smokers' defense I must say that there was no announcement and only a small sign that was easily overlooked.) When the band entered the stage, the up to that point rather quiet audience, showed that they were true Crimheads! "Into the frying pan" started and the volume almost blew apart the beautiful ivy-covered walls of the "Serenadenhof"! Boy, it was REALLY loud!!! Acoustics (or was it the mix?) were not that good, but, hey, it was my first KC live show... and it rocked! The band seemed to be very relaxed and happy. AB smiled all the time and when he did not smile, he laughed cheerfully, joking around with the other members of the band. PM was playing for his life, hitting those V-Drums hard and often... and with great skill and virtuosity! He sometimes reminded me of "Animal" of the Muppets! ;O) TG was also very cool and relaxed and did an amazing job on his Warr Guitar. (Listen to "The Joy of Molybdenum", if you doubt his skills!!!) RF -well- we all know he is not the kind of guy who shows a lot of outward emotions, but he performed exceptionally well (as usual =O) )! Someone in the audience must have drawn his attention (and not in a positive way) as he once, between two pieces, whispered into a roadie's ear and pointed at some person. The roadie then talked to the security guy, who once again "took care of the situation"! I liked the pieces they played, though I still have some mixed feelings about TCoL (the album). "FraKctured" was great, though the two guitarists seemed to have some problems at the beginning. "Cage" was really impressing. "One Time", "Deception of the Thrush", "TCoL" and (absolutely fantastic!) Ade's Version of "ToaPP" also got me, but the most stunning piece was an Improv (?) that I've never heard before.(As I do not (yet) own PX "Heaven & Earth", I do not know if it is on it) PM & TG provided a great techno-like beat (and I don't even like techno!), "interrupted" by some incredible guitar parts by RF & AB. "Heroes" worked pretty well as an encore, although some guy in the audience was not "too happy" that it should be the only encore, yelling the f-word towards the roadies, who were packing away the instruments. All in all, a unique experience, which I will never forget! ...and I guess the friend of mine, who accompanied me to the concert, having no clue about KC, also enjoyed it (he even bought a "TCoL"-Tee!!! ...telling me that it had some "X-Files"-like design... oh, well! =O) ) ...long live the King! flo ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #690 ********************************