Elephant Talk #690 (as text)

7 June 2000

Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:49:35 -0300
From: Toby Howard <moderator at elephant-talk dot com>
Subject: NEWS: A new dead thread -- "Where to file?"
The thread on how to file your CDs ("To K or to P, that is the question")
is now dead. No more posts on that topic please (or anything remotely like
it). Had to stop that before the Collective ET Brain melted.

ET Moderator

Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:49:35 -0300
From: "UNIGLORY" <uniglory at kingnet dot com dot br>
Subject: re:lack of muir..
Hi! Sorry for bother you.., I'm not a too fanatic for Crimson, just a
sufficient fan ;-)  ..Yeah, I like to joke that the presence of Muir is what
made "Lark's Tongues In Aspic"so wonderful! Certainly "Red" & "Starless &
Bible.." would be better with Muir! You know "LTiA" is my fave (along with
"Discipline"..)!  I do a similar joke to Yes'Relayer' and Patrick
Moraz................ :-P
That's it!
Paul Gabrielleschi
http://gabrielleschi.homepage.com/ (underconstruction)
p.s.: I didn't hear TCOL but there's a lot of postings here about some 'weak
points with the production...', maybe just a question of style, but wouldn't
be interesting some remixes from any 'KC member' ? It would be the projeKct
rmx...... :-P  Wouldn't be fun hear some different mix of "Islands",
"Lizard"or "LTiA3"? Maybe we'll never know!!

Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:43:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Darryl <zravkapt at yahoo dot ca>
Subject: KC 4 Ever?
Hello ETer's,

Has anyone noticed that the current reincarnation of Crimson has been the
longest yet! 1969-74 was 6 years, 1981-84 was 4 years and now 1994-2000 is
7 years.  Assuming of course that the group will still be in action in
2001, it will make it 8 years(double the Discipline era). Granted there
hasn't been as much output as earlier incarnations, but there's still been
the ProjeKcts and all the seemingly endless live releases. In fact, I think
as of now there is more live KC material than there is studio work!  I've
read one of Fripp's diaries recently that stated that the current line-up
has been his most enjoyable to play with. That's right, THE most enjoyable,
even more than Wetton-Bruford-Cross. It seems KC will still be going for
awhile since Fripp is obviously happy being in the group right now,
compared to how he felt in 1974 or 1984. Also the increase in women
attending concerts and/or purchasing the new album must be a bonus.
Apparantly TCOL has been doing good on Amazon.com and other places and I
wouldn't be surprised if TCOL actually reached Gold status. I'm not sure
what chart status it has yet, but I would like to know how it's doing on
Billboard though.  So anyway, I'm sure we are guaranteed another studio
album yet before Robert decides to pull the plug again.


Date: 07 Jun 00 10:22:54 -0700
From: "David Voci" <david_voci at tcibr dot com>
Subject: McCulloch and Blues
Hello Friends,

Was going over a certain rock encyclopedia(Terry Hounsome/Compiler and
Writer) last night as a previous contributor mentioned the talents of Andy
McCulloch on traps on the quintessential Crimson album Lizard and found him
to play in these groups/albums:

1)Fields-Self Titled...1971 on CBS UK and US

2)Manfred Mann-Chapter Three/Volume Two from 1970

3)Duncan Mackay-Score 1977 and Visa 1980...the interesting thing about this
and for me bears further investigation is that Wetton is in the lineup as
well as Mel Collins. Any dirt on this from you fine people would be cool.

And looking up Crazy World Of Arthur Brown(This was the first album by
Arthur Brown under this name I believe with subsequent recordings getting a
different moniker like Kingdom Come etc...)the drummer there is Draken
Theaker. Andy McCulloch is not mentioned at all. Carl Palmer might be have
played on the CWOAB album but main drummer was Draken. Carl Palmer played
on Vincent Crane's spinoff group Atomic Rooster's first album.


Enjoyed once again the intense 'Great Deceiver' box last night and on songs
like Easy Money and Cat Food, listen to the styling Fripp utilises on
guitar and tell me if those aren't scarily similar, if not exactly like,
blues sytle solos. I hear this type of soloing in many places on this set
and on Epitaph.

Enjoy Everything,


Date: 7 Jun 00 12:52:01 MDT
From: claus dot poulsen at usa dot net
Subject: More bootlegging & less concert enjoyment
Hello, chit-chatters!!!!

In the last digest, there were several good postings. And the subject of
bootlegging is on my mind at the time. "Cameron Devlin"
<cdevlin at freenetname dot co dot uk> wrote: "The audience is there to enjoy the
music and if someone is bootlegging, their minds are on other things (are
the levels right, is the microphone on etc.). Therefore, if someone is
bootlegging, their attention/attitude is not entirely with the music and
the band is affected."

I am affected too. Recently I saw KC twice in Copenhagen - great shows, babble
babble babble...

There was only one problem: saturday night there was a guy standing to the
left of me. He was standing like a statue throughout the concert showing no
signs of life at all. There in the middle of an unbelieveable magic moment!
How could he NOT join the fun? Why didn't he applause wildly like the rest
of us? I had a hard time not letting myself being affected by him - I felt
uneasy some times. After the show, I asked him if he liked it. Yes, he did!
he was recording, therefore his behaviour (or lack of ).

Bootleg recording at concerts spoil the event - BOTH audience and artist,
and I cand find no resonable excuse to do it. Whatever good reasons - "This
is still piracy."

I am happy to say that the discussion has made my mind clearer on this
point - and Fripp is making a good job of meeting our demands (club, BTV,
DGM, later ConcertArchives etc). Thus I gave away my bootleg LPs and CDs. I
don't really need them - as I have a much better and more fair alternative.

But this change gets me trouble - I won't let anyone make CDROM copies of
my Club CD's anymore (not that I did it A LOT, but...). Then my friends get
a little angry. I, of course, argue and try to make my point. But it takes
quite a while to change someone's mind on the subject when they are
stubborn, 30+ years and have had bootleg collecting as a hobby for a long
time. And then I was offered the actual recording the statue man was making
(free). What to do???

Best wishes,

Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:04:08 +0300
From: Hans Annellsson <hans at annellssongs dot com>
Subject: One More Time...
Hi friends,

A little bit of self promoting, if you don't mind.

My new instrumental CD "One More Time For The World" includes a version of
"Red". The CD is available from www.petter-lottas.x.se, G&S Music in
England and Finyl Vinyl in Rotterdam (The Netherlands).

Hans Annellsson

Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:40:19 -0400
From: johnpellerito <johnp at nshs dot edu>
We all know now the "official" KC policy regarding taping.  But is it not
ironic that RF continues to search out the best tapes (boots) from the past
to improve the Collectors Club series?  Is there not subtle encouragement,
or at the least, acceptance of the practice of taping for the purpose of
archiving vintage KC?  I am sure there are amateur tapers who would be
thrilled to have their recording accepted by RF for release.

Taping current KC shows is probably unnecessary as we will see new releases
from the CC, BootlegTV, etc. These should be sparkling digital recordings
that should satisfy most of us. But what if they changed the set list one
night, or had a guest performer or...

Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:27:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Art Cohen <upsetter at shore dot net>
Subject: Re: Neil
Macahan relates:

>>this reminds me of when a couple of workmates of mine went to see Neil
>> >Young a
>>few years ago.  once they noticed a hidden mike on the guy in front of
>> >them,
>>they started yelling obsenities for the rest of the show.
>That's how it should be solved, mr. Fripp. Start shouting obsenities! ;)

Particularly ironic that this anecdote should involve Neil Young, who's
certainly had his own share of problems with inattentive audients. I've
heard stories from his recent solo-acoustic tour that he would offer (from
the stage) to give loud talkers their money back if they'd leave the show.
Big laffs all around, but I've been at more than one show where I've wished
I (or the performer) had that option.


Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 20:15:25 -0400
From: "Josh Chasin" <jchasin at nyc dot rr dot com>
Subject: How to File CD's
Regarding the simmering controversy framed thusly:

>> Should I put my ProjeKt CD's at P or K????

Man, some of you folks really do pick a nit.  I put 'em under K-- but then,
I put Fripp and Belew and League of Gentlemen there as well.

Coming next ET: I reveal how I file records by Paul McCartney, Dave Edmunds,
and Ronnie Wood.

Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 20:20:42 -0400
From: "Josh Chasin" <jchasin at nyc dot rr dot com>
Subject: The Flurry to Come
In ET #689, Kevin Holmes observes:

"Granted, on certain nights that are technical difficulties or somebody
blurting out a song request or something silly, but the fact is these songs
will be released in live form at some point in the near future."

Actually, if recvent history is any indication, they will be released ad

(Not that I'm complaining...)

Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 20:22:16 -0400
From: Adam Aronson <adam at aronson dot net>
Subject: Re: P or K? (& L or R)
Chad Ossman, 6/7/00 6:20 PM:

>> on 06 Jun 2000 Stephane Berland <sberland at infoflash dot fr> wrote:
>>> Should I put my ProjeKt CD's at P or K????
>> Put them at P !  And put your King Crimson albums at K, K', K'', K''', etc.
> I'm glad to see I'm not the only compulsive KC trainspotter who puzzled over
> this "issue"!
> I just want to make the quick point that DGM released the Projekcts boxed
> set under the name "King Crimson: The Projekcts", so it would seem Fripp
> would like the set to be formally known as a Crimson release, and probably
> filed under "K" at music shops as well.

Add to this confusion the KCCC Release "The Roar of P4"... Do you file that
under "K" with it's collector's club bretern or under "P" with it's fellow
ProjeKcts (as I do)?

Similarly, I have filed my League of Gentlemen's "THRANG THRAN GOZINBULX"
under "L"... However, "God Save The King" is filed under "F" for "Robert
Fripp - The League of Gentlemen".


(Can you tell I make my living as a Database Analyst?)


Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:13:52 EDT
From: NotoriousAWOL at aol dot com
Subject: TCOL-The 3rd Day.
         If you will forgive a little presumption, I think a lot of ETers
have their complaint about the stunning TCOL being "derivative"
ass-backwards. Looking back, the members of KC themselves have stated that
the double-trio did not work out quite in Fripp's intended design. The idea
of two trios involved in delicate interplay collapsed quickly into a
thundering herd of awesome chops. For this reason,and also because the music
itself, though aggressive in some aspects was almost all tonal,modal, and
therefore easy on the ears. As happy as I was with active recording and
touring of these guys, I couldn't help but see a little bit of the pandering
"geezer tours" that attract affluent Boomers who want to try and "relive"
something that never actually happened.  So then the "fractals" go on the
road and just start jamming like crazy.  For a couple of years all we heard
was the jamming. But they were working on stuff. Or maybe stuff was working
on them. And lo and behold, This drummer who is really pushing the envelope
of modern percussion, Another guy who is becoming a master of a rare and
versitile instrument and without a doubt one of the most unique and amazing
guitarists ever to grace the planet come out with an stunningly powerful,
dissonant record. You know, kind of what KC sounded like compared to anything
back in the day. It was nice with "Vroom" and "Thrak" that King Crimson
appeared in order to play that music. But TCOL is the juice. All you
naysayers, give it time. It will burn a hole in you.

Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:39:28 -0500
From: Craig <v-dorje at ticnet dot com>
Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #689 (Sleeping For Years)
> I would really like to see Crimson maybe in future extravaganzas
>musical, think about incorporating some horns and flutes or anything
>that you blow air through, into their song structure.

OH YEAH!!! Most definitely! All kinds (....instead of the usual saxes &
flutes), let`s go for oboes, bassoons, recorders, clarinets).  I`m dead
serious. THAT is how to expand their sound. Not just the constant
technology. (A good deal of which will prolly sound very dated in a short
time).  I`m personally dissapointed w/ the "new" direction, & will (for the
1st time in the band`s discography), pass on the new release.

>I am still a hardcore
>advocate of the mentality that the true and original King Crimson sound

>pretty much dried up after Lizard, at least in the studio.

Whilst I *adore* LIZARD, & think it`s simply one of the best things ever
recorded , (love the winds on there!!), I have to strongly disagree here.
The Larks` Tongues crew did many astounding releases, fully in line w/ the
previous Krimson asthetic. I have never had anything but whole hearted
enthusiasm for those. Their live shows (as experienced on The Great
Deceiver) were superlative in every way.

> A point I would like to make here in regards to all this bootlegging
>talk going on lately(throw this in with religion and politics, btw)is that
>had fans on Epitaph not grabbed themselves a copy or two of those Crimson
>shows on God only knows what tape devices they had back then, could we even
>be so lucky to get them after all these years on the Epitaph CD?  Rob F.
>even says as much in the liner notes to Epitaph and indirectly thanks the
>fans through the liner notes for providing him with these long lost
>cassettes to be able to clean the shows up and include them on Epitaph.


Hmmmm, indeed. The irony is striking.

> While RF is credited for guitar playing and producing on the Centipede

>project, we all know he never played guitar on the album and just produced
>the session.  Did he ever play with Centipede on their live shows or other
>studio gigs that might have been recorded?

He also produced Matching Mole`s *glorious* Little Red Record. Did Fripp
ever play with them???  Now there`s a thought. Hmmm.  (I doubt it .
Word is that Fripp was very down on Phil Miller`s playing during those

Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:50:34 -0500
From: Craig <v-dorje at ticnet dot com>
Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #689 ( Mc Culloch)
He played with a band called "Fields" after K.C. A sort of "secondrate"
E.L.P with just drums, bas,keys and vocals, it's pretty good. I have seen
it on CD but only on "hard-to-get-import".  Since we are talking about him
i must say that i think he's pretty awful.  "Cirkus" sounds so much better
with Ian Wallence. Ian made songs like "Ladies of the road" sound like they
were recorded yesterday while Mc Culloch's playing is so dated. But don't
get me wrong: "Lizard" rules, i

just wish the drums were a little bit less loose. Full credtis to Wallence
my fav drummer in K.C.

Yes, well, er,...your favorite KC drummer is Ian Wallace, not Ian

Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 23:33:35 EDT
From: Bknt at aol dot com
Subject: Norbert Fragg: Endless Bleat
Norbert Fragg: Endless Bleat

Hotel Highly Regrettable
Baden-Baden Worsen-Worsen
Republic of Fredonia

The emptiness that filled last night's concert has not yet come and gone,
due possibly to the venue: a small hall that was no hall at all, but, in
fact, a basement seating approximately 350 that had been previously used as
a storage area by a Croatian sausagier whose scheme for irradiating
ethnically cleansed naughtwurst ended mysteriously when he was found, in
part, if not in parts, within one of his products. My complaints to the
promoter about a darkly dripping liquid descending unwanted through the
ceiling upon the fretful, but not fretless, head of Baldy Bayou, were met
with a curiously feral Balkan growl. My feeble efforts at translating his
remarks yielded the daunting intelligence that before the venue was a
radioactive sausage works, it was used by the promoter as an "information
extraction laboratory." He offered to show me punctures and scuppers in the
stained concrete where human beings were, to use the American idiom,
"placed in a holding pattern." The promoter further informed us that
certain uncertain bleats, squeals, squerns and side burns arising within
the mond-rondo-Redondo-Beach section of Ruptured reminded him of a happier,
bygone era when he, too, practiced an art that caused an audience to make
similar sounds. He was about to describe how new technological innovations
available in the latest edition of Microsoft Windows for Pain have breathed
new death into the field of human excruciation when Out Trey informed him
that we weary musickers would honor his request to autograph his The
Crustacean of Turkish Delight CD, after which we had to hurry off to
telephone faraway wives and tender progeny.

    Thus music puts us in yet another alternative performance space where
close contact may be maintained with an audience of passively active
listeners as opposed to the Rockballast, where we would have had to
purchase and detonate assorted pyrotechnics, wear leather outfits with
studded codpieces, artfully chomp upon capsules of fake blood that would
drip down our gaping jaws, defend ourselves from persons attacking us with
a banana and perform ancient repertoire.

    And yet, the basement sends forth its habitues, in the form of a
nefariously flatulent audient calling himself Lee Petomaine who later banged
upon the lead-lined hatch covering the unnervingly luminous crypt that had
served as the band's dressing room. Out Trey, whose outsized charm and
courtly ettiquette have inspired the fleet retreat of many a bearded,
young man with, or without a copy of Stephen Mawking's A Brief Fistula of
Mine, failed to deturd this maliciously irritating dweeb. Thus, the hapless
few who reconstitute the current edition of Prince Cramp's Son were forced
listen actively to a putz.
LP: I am wish to say I follow you everywhere to join member you group.  Make
a joyful stink. You-reek-ah!
NF: You do not, sir. You do not.
LP: Oh, but I do. I do. You take me for a fancy-shmancy V-drum, I make a
pa-rumpa-pum-pum, but all organic, you dig? Every morning before show, I buy
ticket, I eat big pile of good Serbian beans. I have no expectationabut,
hoooey, such anticipation! I go to all Cramp's Son concerts. I active
Then, in rare quiet part, I make big bang BOOM stink-stink in intimate,
lotsa-girls audience. I make contribution. I help bring music into world.
pay me money or you see me every night..

    LP dribbled on, noting that he was my biggest fan and was merely
following instructions contained in my diary postings, thus,
    1. The ideation typically inferred as Prince Cramp's Son is greater than
Norbert Fragg. Prince Cramp's Son is also greater than its variously
recombinant musicants, greater than its heroically struggling
undercapitalized and venally directed record company, much greater than the
larger community of cretinous critics and amusical radioheads who would
destroy all music if not for the dedicated strivings of certain uncertain
individuals who, when in doubt, sneak perfection.
    2. Prince Cramp's Son includes the active (that is, passive)
participation among audients who refrain from recording, flash photography
and requests for 22nd  Century Anhedonic Amusual Bi-Polar Disordered Man
(Zoloft Blues has been offered as a replacement but has so far achieved only
molt, not cult, status).
    3.  Because the artist pays, the audience pays, everybody's either
or getting paid but nobody's making a living or getting laid, those who Fart
Loudly (cf. collectoin of zestier writings by the American colonial
iconoclast Benjamin Franklin) are making offerings that, if not strictly
musical, have the potential of being just as irritating, nasally retentive
and culturally offensive as the music itself.
    4. Thus it follows that LP, a member of the freely, if not
flatulent may demand compensation in the form of lowly lucre, for his
excrementally expressive, proportionately importunate, notationally noxious,
impertinently percussive eruptions.

    I then refuted this warped and woofed LP that the making of this demand
from the weary, bleary but nonetheless Musical Guitarist Striving for
Perfection, even when he gets mostly dejection, rejection and, at my age,
only an occasional erec(snip!)athis holding of music hostage is none other
than the accursed, much discussed and already-a-dead-thread-in-ET known as
lootbegging. And because one must be crazy to be a musician, lootbegging is
a nonsensical act.

    After my stentorian rebuttal, LP left us distressfully agassed. I then
embarked on a panicky act of e-frenzy to gain advice from Trey Anesthesio
of the band Phlush and my good friend and fellow cosmic string guitarist
Michael Canned Eelly, as to the proper procedure to indulge when the
basement trapdoor flies open and reminds us of what must be in the garden
before a thousand flowers bloom.

Bill Kent
(with thanks to Todd for irreverent inspiration)

Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 00:16:34 -0400
From: Andrew Acunzo <AACUNZO at mail dot chem dot sunysb dot edu>
Subject: P or K, boots
Chad Ossman <co61 at columbia dot edu> wrote:

>I just want to make the quick point that DGM released the Projekcts boxed
>set under the name "King Crimson: The Projekcts", so it would seem Fripp
>would like the set to be formally known as a Crimson release, and
>probably filed under "K" at music shops as well.

However, SPACE GROOVE was just released under the name ProjeKct Two I
believe, although there was a sticker on the packaging identifying it as
a King Crimson Projekct.  Hmm...

"Kevin Holmes" <kholmes at meditech dot com> wrote:

>Some bands are in favor of taping and trading, the King Crimson is not.

Others have mentioned this as well.  However, I've only ever seen Robert
Fripp give opinions on this subject.  Have the other three guys ever
stated their views?  (Obviously if Fripp the de facto leader of the band
is against it, I think we should obey his wishes.  I was just wondering
if the others have stated their views regarding this (but would they
dare state an opposing viewpoint from RF on this thorny topic which is
obviously one of his hot buttons?))

On a related note, has anyone else heard about Pearl Jam's plan?  They're
releasing double CD sets of every show on their current European tour
though their website.  If Crimson did something like this the whole
taping issue would disappear.  I guess we need to wait and see as Bootleg
TV unfolds.


Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 21:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alfred Bello <alfbello at yahoo dot com>
Subject: Mr. William Bruford is NOT God!
Oh Lord, but he is so close, at least from a drummer's point of view
(Clapton, according to some, a couple of decades ago, from a guitarist's
point of view, was God) something with which I disagree, but that is not
the issue (the real one in my opinion being still, after all these years,
Mr. James Marshall Hendrix), a title that neither one of the current KC
guitarists have never as far as I know ever been suggested to be. By the
way, I have at this point to admit that I really enjoy Adrian Belew's
guitar playing and that I sincerely hope that Island finally decides to
issue his 2 first solo albums, The Lone Rhinoceros and Twang Bar King,
which I sincerely miss very much.

Returning to Mr. Bruford, at least, he is the only member and I truly hope
not, ex-member, of King Crimson, who only went along with (quote another
recent ETer) " The Cheerfully Insane's " macabre easy wealth obtaining plan
of daring to poorly improvise noise and actually sell it for only two
sessions (THRaKaTTaK and Projekct One) before calling it quits and go
different ways, initially probably because it was unlistenable, and
secondly, because, he does have the reputation of being if not the best,
one of the best living contemporary drummers in the world and does not wish
to be associated with the subsequent musical monstruosities generated by
that great (or at the very least, ex-great band) that KC has been since the
late sixties, with I must admit it's up's and down's.

We cannot, at this point, eliminate from the face of the earth TCOL, it is
here to stay, but we must (quote another ETer) consider it as the natural
evolution of what we had all been exposed to with the ProjeKcts
experiment. I am surprised to admit that the only ProjeKcts experiment that
really enjoyed was Projekcts Two Studio CD, which apparently nobody
likes. I now find that I enjoy Projekct X more than anything on the 4 CD
boxed set (exception being Seizure). I have absolutely nothing against Pat,
if he is there there must be a very valid reason, but I do not want to
think that the reason I like Projekct X is because of Adrian's occasional
drumming (is he is a guitarist playing drums better than a professional

What is wrong here? I love KC more or at least the same as some of you out

I sincerely hope to see Bill and Tony back in the group.

Bt the way, I have seen a million complaints about the Deja Vu DVD, It
might sound weird, but I have never had a problem with it, every feature
works fine in my system. My SONY DVP-S550D has always worked fine with this
DVD. Don't buy a JVC DVD. My experience in this sense is negative.

I have not meant to offend anybody.

Long Live The King!


Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:09:12 +0200
From: Gnad Markus <MGnad at rundschau dot co dot at>
Subject: Get Your Ears On David Cross, People!
Good morning and HI THERE to all you fellow Robert Fripp and King Crimson
enthusiasts who found a home in the internet newsletter!

(And that is meant literally: Thoughts this world doesn't need can be
placed on ET. No joke. Be serious.  In our society there is no interest for
thoughts on who played what on what record and where can I get that record
and ... I don't think taping is good.  But anyway, maybe these thoughts are
welcome here....  Toby?)

OK, I got my David Cross records yesterday and -
WOW! amazing.

In my constant trying to break the discussion about
the new tour and the new album I once again
make the effort to invest our reading and listening
time in something else.
Well, this is INDEED different.

There is really some great and extraordinary music
to be found on

Must I recommend them or can I assume that you
all will manage to check them out by yourselves?

Now, THAT MAN is a loss for King Crimson.
His playing is unique and the instruments he
plays in the context of superb rock music are also unique.


Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:18:08 +0200
From: "Scheepers, Hans" <Hans dot Scheepers at nl dot origin-it dot com>
Subject: Approaching silense
From ET 689
> From: "David Voci" <david_voci at tcibr dot com>
> Subject: Sleeping For Years
> 9. Being a fan of ranging music styles, I saw a posting in certain
> electronic music catalogues re David Sylvian's 'Approaching Silence'
> release with Robert Fripp playing along with DS on one track, a 38 minute
> excursion I can only imagine to be in the ballpark of an ambiental
> synthetic affair(soundscape if you will). Any feedback or views on this
> would be cool. Apparently the track, also called 'Approching Silence', was
> first done in 94 and this seems to be another take of that.

Redemption/Approaching silence is an installation in Japan, 1994, combining
music and artwork. More details at:
http://www.weatherbox.com/ and see under "installations",
and http://www.trophies.org/reg_cd.htm for details.

The last link contains a 4'10" video of Fripp/Sylvian, including a short


Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:38:53 +0300
From: Haapa Ilkka <ilkka dot haapa at osuuspankki dot fi>
Subject: Heroes and shades of Low
Hi all,

I am a bit surprised since there hasn't been any postings/comments about
King Crimson's cover of Bowie's "Heroes" which they have been playing in
their shows. Surprised because -correct me please if i'm wrong - isn't this
the first time since Mars or Get Thy Bearings that KC is playing music (in
public) composed by someone else than KC member? Isn't that worth of some
debate, do you think? What could it mean?  And also, when listening to TCOL,
some parts of it somehow strangely remind me of Bowie's Low - the sound, the
famous/infamous drums, the mixing...something that I haven't sorted out yet.
Could it even be the guitars? Anyway, to my ears there is definitely
something "Low-like" - and I mean A-side ( I have a vinyl copy of Low) in

Greeting from Finland -the land that King Crimson almost toured.

Ilkka Haapa
Helsinki, Finland

Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:02:42 +0200
From: John Sowerby <John dot Sowerby at uni-bayreuth dot de>
Subject: Collector's clubs
>> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 17:54:56 EDT
>> From: "top jimmy" <jimmyvette at hotmail dot com>
>> Subject: Chit-Chat, it's only talk...
>> Does any ET reader know any other band that has a Collector's Club or
>> something similiar? I thought this was an amazing idea and have been in it
>Dream Theater engages in "something similar".  For the past three or four
>years, the DT Int'l Fan Club has released a "Christmas CD", compiled by the
>band's drummer, of various rareties such as live tracks, non-album tracks,
>cover tunes recorded for fun, and the like.  DT is one of my favorites
>especially because of their selflessness toward their hardcore fans.

Add onto that Marillion, who, like Dream Theater, release a Christmas CD
for the various Web fan clubs, containing unreleased stuff, remixed stuff,
and the occasional murder of a Christmas carol.


Dr John Sowerby,                                (home)
Bayerisches Geoinstitut,                        Parkstrasse 3,
Universitaet Bayreuth,                          D - 95444 BAYREUTH,
D - 95440 BAYREUTH,                             Germany.

phone: (0)921 553717                            phone: (0)921 5160437

e - mail: John dot Sowerby at uni-bayreuth dot de  or: jrs at stones dot com

Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:10:00 +0200
From: Gnad Markus <MGnad at rundschau dot co dot at>
Subject: Too much thinking about the tour
Oops... I posted again!

So, awaiting the Krimson King arriving about 5 minutes
from my home in Linz, I can't sleep all night
wondering what it will be like.

I mentioned in a recent email to izyrp that I really don't like
critics of concerts and records (therefore I read no
music papers), but still they're interesting... as far as
they are not produced by journalists but by FANS.

And the fans' expressions about the concerts are....
quite interesting. It seems there is a lot of trouble
about the new records but there only is one statement
about the tour: IT IS A GREAT TOUR.

Ok, fine, but people, how is it?
I'm sitting here, reading RF's diary and watch
how close they are coming on the European map.
They hit Nurnberg, they hit Munchen, so close....
But how are the shows, guys?

To explain:
1) How are the shows introduced? Do they play
Soundscape playbacks, sort of "Entry of the Crims"
or anything?
2) Two sets or all in one?
3) And: How is Heroes?

Ok- this wasn't quite serious. Don't tell me anything.
I don't want to know.

But these thoughts catch me INDEED:
1) THRAK concerts (listen to B'BOOM) took about 2 hours.
TCOL concerts seem to end after about 100 minutes.
2) How come KC play Heroes as an encore? I only have
one explanation: As a response to those who asked for
the hit Schizoid Man (last time encore in 1973/4) they decided
to play INDEED a hit encore both guitarists of the band
have played on (don't forget the combination: Fripp on studio
Heroes, Belew one year after at Bowie's tour). I find this
an amazing fact.
3) The encore list suprises me: First TOAPP acoustic by AB,
and then P3 without him. Compare: Yes' Ladder tour (hit
this tiny little state three months ago) saw the following encores:
Steve Howe acoustic, and then the band without him (Cinema/Owner
Of a Lonely Heart). I also find these similarities quite interesting.

But, anyway, you see - I've got nothing to do
and I'm sure I annoy you, so.................
I'll better get on with my work.


PS I find the current smoking debate quite funny.
We all know - I'm sure - that us "responsible" smokers
do not smoke where it is not allowed. What else should we do?
Cut our wrists because we are smoking?

Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 03:26:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: jan geerts <forimul at yahoo dot com>
Subject: archiving and cake
Projects under 'P' or 'K' or...
Why ask anyone? Just see for yourselves, if you can
find them when you want to play them, that's sureley
<don't ask Y2 cake and eat it too> :  that seems like
an adaptation of 'you can't have your cake and eat it
too', one of the main points of Objectivism, conceived
by Ayn Rand (www.aynrand.com); I don't know what Mr.
Belew means with his lyric though, which seems to be
as free as the Projekct X cd, which is starting to
grow on me.

Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 07:13:00 PDT
From: "Andrew Thiermann" <andrew77fc at hotmail dot com>
Subject: GIG REVIEW: Bonn Museumsplatz
To say I was excited to see KC is an understatement.  I have only been
listening to KC for a little over a year but in that time they have become
my favorite group (All forms of KC over the years).  In my collection of
350+ CD's the 10 (quite a small number given all the releases) receives over
40% of my listening time.  So for this amazing experience I drove 4 hrs.
(from Belgium) to see them...I was not dissapointed!  The venue was an open
air covered arena, around 1000 people were in attendance, filling the area
almost completely.  Before the concert a few people were yelling 'Bill
Bruford + Tony Levin' But this all stoped when KC came on.  The set was as

Into the Frying Pan
Sex, Eat,...
The World's My Oyster...
15 min Jam
Cage (Accoustic)
ProzaKc Blues
Coda: I have a Dream
ToaPP (Adrien Belew playing acoustic alone)
Deception of the Thrush (P4 Version) (RF, TG & PM only)

they ended with a cover of some 80's song I can't for the life of me
remember the name of it but it had the lyrics "Nothing Could Keep Us Apart",
it was a really cheesy song but you could tell they were playing it just to
take the piss...Throughout the entire concert you could see they were all
enjoying life.  AB was practically jumping out of his skin with enjoyment,
going crazy as always.  Trey Gunn played perfectly, he is one member that I
think is greatly underestimated, his playing is essential and he does it
with so much feeling and emotion, just great!  THen the man who is getting
so much critisism at the moment Pat Mastelotto, all I can say is he is
BRILLIANT!  Not only does he match former KC drummers but goes beyond them
in so many ways...He visually works with the audience communicating as so
few drummers do..and yet adds such an integral part to the KC sound.  Then
the infamous Robert Fripp.  What can I say, he is by far the most musically
amazing musician I have ever seen, not only does he treat the guitar as a
delicate instrument (something that is almost never seen in todays music)
but he knows how to add just the perfect amount of atmosphere or turmoil
(through effects, scales etc...) at every moment.  After hearing all of the
"Horror Stories" about his actions to the crowd I can do nothing but
question the previous authors of these accusations...all he seemed to be was
a man who loved his art but did not want the groaping and leeching that fans
so often do to their 'musical heros'.  Not only was he humble as always but
you could see that he was enjoying himself, a smile (or clever smirk) was
almost always present throughout the 2 hr set.  All in all the playing was
perfect, the communication, the set everything was perfect...they must have
enjoyed it, they did  3 encores!!  Anyways, I have waffled on enough.  Just
finish by saying, the concert was so good, I might have to take off work and
go see them in Paris just to have the experience of pure bliss one more
time!  Hope anyone who has the chance goes to see them, it's worth the
ticket price and the hassle of 4 hrs of driving each way!

Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:45:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: flohansson at hockeymail dot com
Subject: GIG REVIEW: Nuremberg again -or- "play it for me chicken fingers!"
 Hello there, fellow ETers!

I know the KC show at Nuremberg has already been reviewed (e.g. by
Stickman, who described the atmosphere very well!), but as it was my first
live experience of my favourite band, I would like to add a few
impressions, too.

I do not want to repeat too much of Stickman's review, but one thing that
really knocked me off my feet was the venue itself! The "Serenadenhof" is
just beautiful!

The great weather also contributed to the overall impression.

When I entered that courtyard and heard those Soundscapes coming from some
tape backstage, I was immediately full of joy and expectation for the
unexpected.  (BTW, can anybody tell me which Soundscapes-album they come
from? I only heard them once before on the video tape "Live in Japan '95")

Another great thing, which almost turned the gig into a private barbecue,
was the fact that you could buy some drinks and original "Nuernberger
Bratwuerste" to power up for the upcoming show! And all those stands were
just a few feet from the stage!

I also enjoyed the fact that there was a no-smoking-area right in front of
the stage.  Some "indisciplined" people nevertheless tried to light their
cigarettes, but some security guys immediately "took care of them".  (To
the smokers' defense I must say that there was no announcement and only a
small sign that was easily overlooked.)

When the band entered the stage, the up to that point rather quiet
audience, showed that they were true Crimheads!

"Into the frying pan" started and the volume almost blew apart the
beautiful ivy-covered walls of the "Serenadenhof"!  Boy, it was REALLY

Acoustics (or was it the mix?) were not that good, but, hey, it was my
first KC live show... and it rocked!

The band seemed to be very relaxed and happy.  AB smiled all the time and
when he did not smile, he laughed cheerfully, joking around with the other
members of the band.

PM was playing for his life, hitting those V-Drums hard and often... and
with great skill and virtuosity! He sometimes reminded me of "Animal" of
the Muppets! ;O)

TG was also very cool and relaxed and did an amazing job on his Warr
Guitar. (Listen to "The Joy of Molybdenum", if you doubt his skills!!!)

RF -well- we all know he is not the kind of guy who shows a lot of outward
emotions, but he performed exceptionally well (as usual =O) )!  Someone in
the audience must have drawn his attention (and not in a positive way) as
he once, between two pieces, whispered into a roadie's ear and pointed at
some person. The roadie then talked to the security guy, who once again
"took care of the situation"!

I liked the pieces they played, though I still have some mixed feelings
about TCoL (the album).  "FraKctured" was great, though the two guitarists
seemed to have some problems at the beginning.  "Cage" was really
impressing. "One Time", "Deception of the Thrush", "TCoL" and (absolutely
fantastic!) Ade's Version of "ToaPP" also got me, but the most stunning
piece was an Improv (?) that I've never heard before.(As I do not (yet) own
PX "Heaven & Earth", I do not know if it is on it) PM & TG provided a great
techno-like beat (and I don't even like techno!), "interrupted" by some
incredible guitar parts by RF & AB.

"Heroes" worked pretty well as an encore, although some guy in the audience
was not "too happy" that it should be the only encore, yelling the f-word
towards the roadies, who were packing away the instruments.

All in all, a unique experience, which I will never forget! ...and I guess
the friend of mine, who accompanied me to the concert, having no clue about
KC, also enjoyed it (he even bought a "TCoL"-Tee!!! ...telling me that it
had some "X-Files"-like design... oh, well! =O) )

...long live the King!


Mike Stok